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Old 14th September 2019, 04:40 PM   #201
EHocking
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I guess that's where we differ.

I'd serve guests something that I think they might enjoy and be able to eat. From time to time I've had to accommodate a range of religious and dietary restrictions and a vegetarian or vegan meal may be the best way of doing that and still deliver something that's delicious.

Then again I'm not the kind of "my house, my rules" kind of person that would rather make a point than make his guests feel comfortable.
indeed.
I was asked for the recipe of my main dish by the veggie we accommodated and two of the carnivores that night.
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Old 14th September 2019, 04:59 PM   #202
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Bacon cheeseburger. I got autocorrected again.
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Old 14th September 2019, 05:03 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Bacon cheeseburger. I got autocorrected auto-corrected again.
...
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Old 14th September 2019, 08:24 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Do you eat any processed foods, such as breakfast cereal?
No, I don't.
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Old 14th September 2019, 08:25 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post

No dietary source that you know of.
Correct. And I've given it a lot of thought. Any suggestions for a source I've overlooked are appreciated.
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Old 14th September 2019, 08:59 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
Correct. And I've given it a lot of thought. Any suggestions for a source I've overlooked are appreciated.
The biota that makes B12 live in the colon. It's a water soluble vitamin. The colon absorbs water. Veggers eat a lot of fiber to feed that biota. And YES, colons do adsorb stuff, like coffee enemas (Steve McQueen) or migraine medications, and there are other medications delivered by suppository. So I wouldn't believe that colonic B12 is not the source without modern and specific study.

Unless copraphagy is another of your idiosyncrasys ?
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Old 14th September 2019, 09:21 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Not just meat availability (although I bet few people would find caveman cuisine palatable), but food availability.

Every time this subject comes up, there is an attempt to point to evolution as though it is the ultimate arbiter of what humans ought to eat today.

It is essentially pseudoscience.
It's not completely pseudoscience. If I found an animal that I'd never seen before and wanted to raise it, I might take a look at what other members of it's species are eating in the wild in order to find what a healthy diet to feed it would be. Seems like a good starting point.

The pseudoscience is the idea that we should just stop there, as though we haven't done any more science with respect to human diet and nutrition.
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Old 14th September 2019, 10:28 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Nutrition requires balance and moderation. Just like almost everything else in life. Why this is a difficult concept for some people to grasp I will never understand.
Interesting. How much animal product consumed, as a pct of total daily calories, do you think is required to achieve nutritional "balance"?
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Old 14th September 2019, 10:55 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Interesting. How much animal product consumed, as a pct of total daily calories, do you think is required to achieve nutritional "balance"?
Which animal?

Fish, poultry, red meat?

And how is a balanced diet based on calories
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Old 14th September 2019, 11:18 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Which animal?
Any animals. The implication is that for a diet to be "balanced" it requires animal products. I'd like to know how much satisfies that requirement.

Quote:
And how is a balanced diet based on calories
How is it not?
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Old 14th September 2019, 11:27 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Any animals. The implication is that for a diet to be "balanced" it requires animal products. I'd like to know how much satisfies that requirement.



How is it not?
Calories mean jack to a balanced diet.

Red meat like beef is good as it contains iron, fish omega 3, poultry (putting eggs aside as it is obvious) carbs.

And that is just the obvious ones

Then you have vitamins from things like fruit, the thingys in grains I can't remember that make you poo proper.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 14th September 2019, 11:34 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Calories mean jack to a balanced diet.
I don't know what this is supposed to mean.



Quote:
Red meat like beef is good as it contains iron, fish omega 3...
How much red meat needs to be added to a Vegan diet to make it "balanced"?
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Old 14th September 2019, 11:39 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
I don't know what this is supposed to mean.





How much red meat needs to be added to a Vegan diet to make it "balanced"?
I meant not everything is based on calories for a balanced diet

E.g Google scurvy


Presumably a shed load of supplements
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Old 14th September 2019, 11:43 PM   #214
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As a backward aside.

Personally had a blood test a while ago as I was feeling knackered all the time and they found I was low folic acid.

Had more veggies and supplements for a month, all normal.

A balanced diet is a broad brush.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old Yesterday, 12:03 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
...
Red meat like beef is good as it contains iron, fish omega 3, poultry (putting eggs aside as it is obvious) carbs....
Carbs in chicken meat?
WTF do you Kiwis feed chickens with to produce carbs in their meat?
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Old Yesterday, 12:08 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Carbs in chicken meat?
WTF do you Kiwis feed chickens with to produce carbs in their meat?
Fair call

Made a hash of that one

Got my nutrients mixed.

It has whatever the thing is that makes athletes eat loads of it.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old Yesterday, 12:13 AM   #217
cullennz
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Protein

Got there in the end
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old Yesterday, 12:14 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
No, I don't.
You're getting it from somewhere. If you fancy listing your typical diet in some detail it would help, otherwise people are just guessing. Soy milk?

The point is that even vegan organisations recommend B12 supplements and it's hard to accept that you're a biological freak for whom nutritional science simply doesn't apply.
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Old Yesterday, 03:32 PM   #219
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Related web page https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2006/1/awsi/Page "Do vegetarians live longer?"

Veggers, do read past few paragraphs to
Quote:
Longevity studies of vegetarians produce conflicting data. Some studies do not show that vegetarians live significantly longer.25,29 Two studies of people who consumed very little meat showed an average life-span increase of 3.6 years.39 A huge study of Seventh Day Adventists who ate little or no meat showed longevity increases of 7.28 years in men and 4.42 years in women.40 These data are confounded by the fact that Seventh Day Adventists follow healthy lifestyles free of tobacco and alcohol.
Then,
Quote:
A fascinating paper recently published in the journal Mechanisms of Aging and Development presents an entirely new theory to explain why vegetarians do not live longer.41 It turns out that those who avoid eating beef suffer a deficiency of a nutrient (carnosine) that is critical to preventing lethal glycation reactions in the body.

For the benefit of new members, glycation can be defined as the toxic binding of glucose to the body’s proteins. Glycation alters the body’s proteins and renders them non-functional. While wrinkled skin is the first outward appearance of glycation, most degenerative diseases are affected in one way or another by pathological glycation reactions.

Diabetics suffer from accelerated glycation that contributes to the secondary diseases that result in premature death.42,43 For instance, glycation’s destructive effect on the arterial system results in a loss of elasticity, hypertension, and atherosclerosis.44-47 Glycation is involved in disorders as diverse as cataract, cancer, and Alzheimer’s disease.48-57

Unless aggressive steps are taken, many aging adults will suffer the devastating effects of glycation to proteins throughout their bodies. This fact was established recently when it was shown that even healthy people with slightly elevated glycation levels are at higher risk for heart attack.

Vegetarians have higher levels of advanced glycation end products (AGEs) in their blood compared to those who eat meat.58,59 This is because an exclusively vegetarian diet would lack carnosine, nature’s most potent anti-glycating agent.
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Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Not just meat availability (although I bet few people would find caveman cuisine palatable), but food availability.

Every time this subject comes up, there is an attempt to point to evolution as though it is the ultimate arbiter of what humans ought to eat today.

It is essentially pseudoscience.
Sorry for the late reaction, but I find this interesting. Genus Homo have been omnivorous for millions of years, since at least Homo Erectus. Even if dietary science is a work in progress, it's obvious that we're adapted to eating meat. We have the teeth and the gut for it. Grain and legumes are a very recent addition to the human diet, and are not always well-tolerated. Same with dairy.

Whatever you think we should do, please don't misrepresent what we have done.

It's not pseudoscience to say that we're naturally omnivores; it's simple fact. By all means, though, feel free to propose a plan to establish an alternative, while understanding that it could take at least a few hundred thousand years to make it work.
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