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Old 9th May 2017, 06:24 AM   #3441
Crossbow
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Thanks for correcting me. Sometimes God decides to do nothing and the result of the Tarot is pretty random. Other times, he lets Satan decide the outcome because the reader attracts evil.
So, ...

I suppose that according to 'PartSkeptic' Tarot readings can be accurate because God or Satan wants the reading to be accurate.

On the other hand, Tarot readings can be inaccurate because neither God or Satan wants the reading to be accurate.

Congratulations! Your supernatural analysis of Tarot readings makes about much sense as any other other supernatural analysis of Tarot readings that I have ever seen.
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Old 9th May 2017, 08:30 AM   #3442
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Use a Tarot reader who has a record of giving good advice to others.
How would we know to what variable to attribute the success?

Quote:
And either be the one to trust in God,or have a Tarot reader who is a good person wanting good things for others.
You didn't say anything about my trust in God. You mentioned something about God deciding whether or not to affect the outcome. How would your proposed experiment control for that?

Quote:
Very few readings - but a high hit rate.
And did you keep records about whether your hits were because (1) you were good, (2) because God affected the results, and (3) because Satan affected the results? Please present your data.

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
No. You do.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to be taken seriously.
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Old 11th May 2017, 12:17 PM   #3443
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
False analogy. A race tipster bases his tips on his specialist knowledge and experience, not on unproven mumbo jumbo.
(snip).

You really have lived a sheltered life. The one or two tipsters I knew KNEW which horse was supposed to win. Many races are fixed. As as many sporting events that people bet on - cricket for example here in South Africa. Soccer. That is what I mean by insider information. Just like stock picks - inside information.

Now for supernatural events - if there is a God - he knows the fix in the game of life and controls the fixes - and if one gets information from God, then most of the time it is a sure thing.

But for various reasons the insider tipster keeps people honest by giving wrong information. That way people will not bet ridiculous amounts or mortgage the house. It draws attention.

And besides, even with the best fixes things go wrong. In one case they had to arrange for a hit on a famous horse.

I think the analogy is great. You have such resistance to any slight possibility there may be a God that attack with denials. Cognitive dissonance?

Anyhow, thanks for giving me a chance to further the analogy.
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Old 11th May 2017, 12:31 PM   #3444
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You really have lived a sheltered life. The one or two tipsters I knew KNEW which horse was supposed to win. Many races are fixed. As as many sporting events that people bet on - cricket for example here in South Africa. Soccer. That is what I mean by insider information. Just like stock picks - inside information.
So, exactly as I said, specialist knowledge and experience. Not unproven mumbo jumbo.
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Old 11th May 2017, 12:47 PM   #3445
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Highly subjective, problematic inferences hardly qualify in most commonly accepted definitions of "logical."

I observe. I see, I listen, I evaluate. I am highly logical. The explanation must fit a wide variety of phenomena and events. Also there is a lot of garbage and noise that must be discarded. I have been fortunate that things happened in such a way that the explanation unfolded slowly but fairly surely.

I also feel. If you have not had much in the way of odd things, or of various religions, or of a wide variety of people and situations, or of things that people call spiritual or supernatural, then it must be hard for you to grasp. The fact that you cannot grasp just how different things can be from the ordinary does not mean that they do not exist.

I know that my senses are different and heightened. How do I know? Because as I age and deteriorate I now know what "normal" people experience. I can now relate. I thought all people could see, hear, feel, think and remember the way I could - I now realize that they do not for the most part.

We are all different with different pluses and minuses. Not better and not inferior - just different. Superior/inferior is relative and depends hugely on the criteria. A gardener living in a small room on his employers plot and paid a meager salary can be envied if one sees his contentment and lack of stress. Enjoying his life and work, and the beauty of this world. I have seen such a man - and we exchanged a smile and a nod.

There is one important point to all of this. Being over analytical is a disadvantage to being able to hear the soft voice of God or of spirit. Or to be in tune with spirit knowledge. The logical analytical mind overrides and rejects outside influences because they are not seen, heard, felt and often seem like random thoughts.

This week has been interesting for me. A lot of "good luck". Too much to be coincidence. But that is another thread I am on.
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Old 11th May 2017, 12:56 PM   #3446
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
So, exactly as I said, specialist knowledge and experience. Not unproven mumbo jumbo.

Your rational explanation for the amazing "luck" I have is that it is just "luck" and the law of large number means that there has to be those that are on the extreme ends of the various Bell Curve's for the variables and I happen to be (or may be) one of those.

That includes the "intuitions" I often have, and the way the cards just happen to give correct answers nearly all the time.

That is your explanation and nothing will change your mind (I know - except scientific proof). Or you would have to live a life like mine. Which most people would choose not to. Lots of physical and emotional pain. Lots of drama and chaos.
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Old 11th May 2017, 01:11 PM   #3447
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
This is a pretty standard tactic. A perpetual, ongoing, vague prediction of disaster allows the predictor to claim victory when something inevitably happens that even vaguely resembles the prediction. For example, everyone who was making predictions like this got to claim "victory" when AIDS hit the news.

There will be no effort to warn WHO or a similar organization because the "prediction" is too vague to be acted on. Since the predicted catastrophe is a moral judgement there would be nothing a secular government would be expected to do anyway other than repent.

As for personal preparation, being a good little choir member is good enough, because the elect will either be spared or, depending on the disaster predicted, snatched up to Heaven.
Some disasters are easy to predict;I don't think someone deserves credit for deep insight for predicting they will be another horrible act of Terrorism in the Mideast before the year ends.
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Old 11th May 2017, 01:12 PM   #3448
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THe term "Tarot Cards" and "Rational" just do not go together........
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Old 11th May 2017, 01:13 PM   #3449
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THe term "Tarot Cards" and "Rational" just do not go together except in the sentence "THe Use of Tarot Cards to Predict the Future is not Rational'.
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Old 11th May 2017, 01:28 PM   #3450
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Your rational explanation for the amazing "luck" I have is that it is just "luck"
What amazing luck? You have given no evidence that you have amazing luck. Your anecdotes certainly don't amount to such evidence, and other information you've provided, eg of your ill health, suggests otherwise.

There is nothing extraordinary about you, your luck, or your intuition. I know nothing will ever convince you of that, you are too emotionally invested in your belief in your specialness, but you are fooling yourself.
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Old 11th May 2017, 01:47 PM   #3451
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Some disasters are easy to predict;I don't think someone deserves credit for deep insight for predicting they will be another horrible act of Terrorism in the Mideast before the year ends.
Yet many will claim such credit regardless.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
THe term "Tarot Cards" and "Rational" just do not go together........
How about, "It's perfectly rational to use Tarot cards as a more entertaining version of a Rhorsach test, so long as the participants understand there are no supernatural forces at play."
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Old 11th May 2017, 02:29 PM   #3452
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Now for supernatural events - if there is a God - he knows the fix in the game of life and controls the fixes - and if one gets information from God, then most of the time it is a sure thing.

But for various reasons the insider tipster keeps people honest by giving wrong information. That way people will not bet ridiculous amounts or mortgage the house.
So, you affirm that God lies. But it's for our own good, so it's justified. IOW, the end justifies the means.

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Old 13th May 2017, 10:39 AM   #3453
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
What amazing luck? You have given no evidence that you have amazing luck. Your anecdotes certainly don't amount to such evidence, and other information you've provided, eg of your ill health, suggests otherwise.

There is nothing extraordinary about you, your luck, or your intuition. I know nothing will ever convince you of that, you are too emotionally invested in your belief in your specialness, but you are fooling yourself.

My ill health is a learning experience. Luckily it comes late in my life. I am slowly overcoming it. I have really bad days mixed with really fantastic days. Among other things, I am learning about dependency on prescription pain meds. Not easy to stop taking them, especially when the pain comes back.

You are the one fooling yourself by trotting out the standard narratives of anyone who might have personal experiences of the supernatural. As for being "special" I have stated that I am different, as are we all. And are we all not told that we are all special in some way or the other?

You are emotionally invested in your "diagnosis" of me being correct. Because you fear that you may have spent years saying there is no God when you are now facing the possibility of God existing, and the probablity may be a lot higher than you are prepared to admit to.

Look over your posts to me and about me. They have grown more and more hostile with increased 'ad hominems' over the years. You state your assumptions as if they are solid facts. I know myself - you do not.
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Old 13th May 2017, 11:15 AM   #3454
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
THe term "Tarot Cards" and "Rational" just do not go together........

You are right. They are not a computer outputs to be analyzed with a computer algorithm. One must use "gut feeling" and intuition. These are beyond the ability of science to properly study except to say they exist and relate a bunch of anecdotes.

But some answers are more exacting than others. I often ask for a yes or no answer if I am conflicted. As with Trump. No interpretation required except for mixed answers. One can add interpretation of the cards.

Example. This week I had to submit a court file for final enrollment by 12 noon on Wednesday. I planned to be ready on Tuesday and on Sunday started the preparation. I needed a transcript of a previous hearing. I was told it could take a while because the hearing Judge had to sign that the order was correct. First thing on Monday I saw that if I paid the account I could have the transcript. Timing - just great timing. Ask God for help and the next day I get it.

A lot of delays happened on Monday. That night the opposition served me a notice of opposition and requested I remove the the matter from the roll. I decided to push ahead. There were a lot of problems with the file. I had to compile a duplicate because the hearing judge was retaining the original and I could not get it.

I worked until 2:30 am but was not happy with some issues. My gut was telling me that even if I was in time I should not file. I asked the Tarot:

"Should I file"
Cards - Ace of Wands - Three of hearts reversed - Three of cups reversed.

Answer - Clear "NO"
The wands is a business issue not a legal one. In other words, I would win, but my long term strategy is best served if I do not. And I can see the path.

The three of hearts is disorder and confusion. My concern was the state of not only the file but the length and complicated opposition who were seeking to bullsh*t the judge and attempt to get my motion struck out. I would have loved the challenge, but the long term is more important.

The three of cups is warning me that the advocate is probably friends with the hearing judge and will be using the back door to prejudice the judge.

I removed the matter from the role and will meet with the Deputy Judge President at the end of the month so as get one judge who will handle all interim hearings, the pre-trial conference and the trial. He will be fully briefed. I suspect the matter will end soon (not a prediction).
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Old 13th May 2017, 11:25 AM   #3455
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
So, you affirm that God lies. But it's for our own good, so it's justified. IOW, the end justifies the means.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

Explain to me where and how I affirm that God lies? He lets us get on with it, and sometimes will not answer.

Deciding not to answer is not a lie.

How do you avoid lying if you are confused about the concept? Or is lying not a moral problem because it is only a sin if you get caught and punished? God will always catch you because he knows! You WILL be punished. The length and severity depends on how you conducted the rest of your life.

The "end justifies the means" is wrong if the "means" are immoral. There are some shades of gray on this one, where one can plead mitigation on judgment day.
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Old 13th May 2017, 12:14 PM   #3456
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Look over your posts to me and about me. They have grown more and more hostile with increased 'ad hominems' over the years.
My posts have got more critical as yours have got more bat**** crazy. I have now given up all hope of engaging you in rational discussion. Enoy your delusions.
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Old 13th May 2017, 12:37 PM   #3457
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Explain to me where and how I affirm that God lies?
Right here:
Quote:
But for various reasons the insider tipster keeps people honest by giving wrong information.
"Giving wrong information" is the dictionary definition of lying.

Quote:
He lets us get on with it, and sometimes will not answer.

Deciding not to answer is not a lie.
You apparently don't believe in sin by omission. I can think of some cops and district attorneys (and clergy) who might disagree. However, and although this has absolutely nothing to do with what you wrote earlier, I'll roll with it.

Quote:
How do you avoid lying if you are confused about the concept? Or is lying not a moral problem because it is only a sin if you get caught and punished? God will always catch you because he knows! You WILL be punished. The length and severity depends on how you conducted the rest of your life.
If "giving wrong information" and withholding information are not forms of lying but are divine attributes, then why should we be punished for engaging in them? The question does not arise.

Quote:
The "end justifies the means" is wrong if the "means" are immoral. There are some shades of gray on this one, where one can plead mitigation on judgment day.
As we said in Viet Nam, "It was necessary to burn the village in order to save it." If the end is not justified by immoral means, then any end achieved by immoral means is unjustified.

But if God does it, the action is neither wrong nor immoral, and the purpose is justified and good. We cannot be wrong if we seek to emulate God. Therefore, anything accomplished or attempted by "giving wrong information" or withholding information is good, and we have nothing for which we should repent or to justify. Additionally, this implies that any end achieved by emulating God, in this case withholding information or giving wrong information,is good.

That's a very practical set of definitions you've come up with.

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Old 14th May 2017, 12:53 AM   #3458
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You are right. They are not a computer outputs to be analyzed with a computer algorithm. One must use "gut feeling" and intuition. These are beyond the ability of science to properly study except to say they exist and relate a bunch of anecdotes.

But some answers are more exacting than others. I often ask for a yes or no answer if I am conflicted. As with Trump. No interpretation required except for mixed answers. One can add interpretation of the cards.

Example. This week I had to submit a court file for final enrollment by 12 noon on Wednesday. I planned to be ready on Tuesday and on Sunday started the preparation. I needed a transcript of a previous hearing. I was told it could take a while because the hearing Judge had to sign that the order was correct. First thing on Monday I saw that if I paid the account I could have the transcript. Timing - just great timing. Ask God for help and the next day I get it.

A lot of delays happened on Monday. That night the opposition served me a notice of opposition and requested I remove the the matter from the roll. I decided to push ahead. There were a lot of problems with the file. I had to compile a duplicate because the hearing judge was retaining the original and I could not get it.

I worked until 2:30 am but was not happy with some issues. My gut was telling me that even if I was in time I should not file. I asked the Tarot:

"Should I file"
Cards - Ace of Wands - Three of hearts reversed - Three of cups reversed.

Answer - Clear "NO"
The wands is a business issue not a legal one. In other words, I would win, but my long term strategy is best served if I do not. And I can see the path.

The three of hearts is disorder and confusion. My concern was the state of not only the file but the length and complicated opposition who were seeking to bullsh*t the judge and attempt to get my motion struck out. I would have loved the challenge, but the long term is more important.

The three of cups is warning me that the advocate is probably friends with the hearing judge and will be using the back door to prejudice the judge.

I removed the matter from the role and will meet with the Deputy Judge President at the end of the month so as get one judge who will handle all interim hearings, the pre-trial conference and the trial. He will be fully briefed. I suspect the matter will end soon (not a prediction).
Firstly, you are of course free to live your life as you please, but I personally think that letting Tarot cards determine your legal strategy is highly questionable.
However, be that as it may, a couple of questions. What interpretation are you using for your cards- how are you assigning meaning to them? I looked up the Ace of Wands, and it doesn't mean anything like what you say it does on any Tarot site I looked at. Secondly, since when have Hearts been one of the suits of the Tarot deck? I thought it was swords, wands, coins and cups.
Example tarot site: http://www.learntarot.com/wa.htm
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Old 15th May 2017, 01:31 AM   #3459
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
How would we know to what variable to attribute the success?

The variables are that one gets successful readings from a Tarot reader. But even the best start to experience poor readings - partly because frequent readings are an abuse of the process. One is allowed a successful reading now and then.

One has to instinctively "know" if a reading is correct. In NZ I went to a reader and I would tell he that her reading was wrong and to try again. After two or three tries she got the correct reading. The wrong ones did not make sense. The correct one did and was not something I would have intuited by myself. The "free will" and "helping oneself" issues at play.

If a tipster gives you a horse that you feel is a nag, better look it in the mouth.

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
You didn't say anything about my trust in God. You mentioned something about God deciding whether or not to affect the outcome. How would your proposed experiment control for that?

It is not a test. If it was God would refuse to take part.

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
And did you keep records about whether your hits were because (1) you were good, (2) because God affected the results, and (3) because Satan affected the results? Please present your data.

Because I did the Tarot infrequently and it was a big deal to me I remember most of the reading and the results. Yes - excellent hit rate. When I did Trump I recorded the five readings. When I went to court I recorded them and put them on this site. I just put another one on.

Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to be taken seriously.

Seriously - as you can see there are a lot of uncontrolled variables in the system. It is not conducive to experimentation. The human mind and very slight outside influences.
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Old 15th May 2017, 01:56 AM   #3460
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Firstly, you are of course free to live your life as you please, but I personally think that letting Tarot cards determine your legal strategy is highly questionable.

However, be that as it may, a couple of questions. What interpretation are you using for your cards- how are you assigning meaning to them? I looked up the Ace of Wands, and it doesn't mean anything like what you say it does on any Tarot site I looked at. Secondly, since when have Hearts been one of the suits of the Tarot deck? I thought it was swords, wands, coins and cups.
Example tarot site: http://www.learntarot.com/wa.htm

As to the Tarot deck and the interpretations, the business-men have jumped on the bandwagon. The Rider-Waite deck and the Eden Gray book work for me. There are a great number of meanings to choose from, but the basic reading that all should get is NO - bad - bad. Since "not attending" is neutral then an "appearance" is bad. My late wife tried to learn the Tarot. She would explain her reading. I would explain why her reading was wrong. She gave up and said that the spirits guide those that are allowed to read.

Sorry - Three of swords reversed - not three of hearts. The three swords piece a heart. The swords are strife and legal. Me, them and the judge?

An additional interpretation for the reversed three of cups would be a lack of health or ability to argue properly.

I did not think that I would be able to show that filing was a bad mistake. I already had a gut feeling that my file was not good enough and a tough judge would find fault, throw it out on a minor technicality, and have us pay onerous costs. Having removed the matter, I cannot show that a bad result would happen.

BUT.... as it turned out, I can. On Sunday I got a bad chest cold and flu. I spent most of the day in bed. I only woke up at 10:00am this morning, and am in no condition to do very much. I would have had to send my fiance, and they would have then heard the matter without the oral argument I needed. I argue with the judges and was prepared for their "technicalities"

So... right again.
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Old 15th May 2017, 05:13 AM   #3461
Peregrinus
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
... frequent readings are an abuse of the process. One is allowed a successful reading now and then.
Woo-woo used to describe woo-woo. (Did you actually write that with a straight face? "...now and then"????)

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It is not a test. If it was God would refuse to take part.
Unevidenced woo-woo used to defend woo-woo.

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It is not conducive to experimentation.
Therefore not susceptible to any form of rational verification.

Last edited by Peregrinus; 15th May 2017 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 15th May 2017, 06:35 AM   #3462
halleyscomet
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Thumbs up The Proof is in the Wishing

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
As to the Tarot deck and the interpretations, the business-men have jumped on the bandwagon. The Rider-Waite deck and the Eden Gray book work for me. There are a great number of meanings to choose from, but the basic reading that all should get is NO - bad - bad. Since "not attending" is neutral then an "appearance" is bad. My late wife tried to learn the Tarot. She would explain her reading. I would explain why her reading was wrong. She gave up and said that the spirits guide those that are allowed to read.

Sorry - Three of swords reversed - not three of hearts. The three swords piece a heart. The swords are strife and legal. Me, them and the judge?

An additional interpretation for the reversed three of cups would be a lack of health or ability to argue properly.

I did not think that I would be able to show that filing was a bad mistake. I already had a gut feeling that my file was not good enough and a tough judge would find fault, throw it out on a minor technicality, and have us pay onerous costs. Having removed the matter, I cannot show that a bad result would happen.

BUT.... as it turned out, I can. On Sunday I got a bad chest cold and flu. I spent most of the day in bed. I only woke up at 10:00am this morning, and am in no condition to do very much. I would have had to send my fiance, and they would have then heard the matter without the oral argument I needed. I argue with the judges and was prepared for their "technicalities"

So... right again.
The great joy in an n==1 study such as yours is that confirmation bias can constitute the entirety of the data collection and analysis process.

The lack of third party analysis and rigorous record keeping further enhances the monopoly confirmation bias has on the entire process.

Using vague criteria, such as feeling ill or recovering from a self-limiting condition, all but ensures you will get the results you want.
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:26 AM   #3463
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The variables are that one gets successful readings from a Tarot reader.
No, that's the dependent variable. But you've identified either three or four (depending on how I parse your post) variables that contribute independently to that outcome.

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One has to instinctively "know" if a reading is correct.
Intuition does not provide the control I've asked about.

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If a tipster gives you a horse that you feel is a nag, better look it in the mouth.
That just adds another uncontrolled independent variable to your system. That makes your claim less credible, not more.

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It is not a test. If it was God would refuse to take part.
How is any Tarot reading not a test of the system? The anecdotes you quote above seem to indicate you're evaluating the success or failure of the predictiveness of the system based on variables. Now you're telling me one of those variables cannot be controlled for without biasing the entire system.

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Because I did the Tarot infrequently and it was a big deal to me I remember most of the reading and the results.
Most or all?

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Yes - excellent hit rate.
But we yet have no basis for being able to assert that with statistical validity.

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Seriously - as you can see there are a lot of uncontrolled variables in the system.
Agreed, therefore I see no reason to claim it is predictive in the way you say it is.

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It is not conducive to experimentation.
It isn't conductive to rigor. You've made sure of that. But you are, in effect, claiming empirical support. You have identified variables you say affect the outcome of your readings and speculated about the method and degree of causation. You're doing this to excuse failures in the system. If the system fails, you identify one of several variables and attribute the failure to it. This distracts from the one variable we want to test: the purported paranormal effect. Since you describe the system in a way that places all the other variables beyond testability, you have absolutely no basis to claim the exculpatory causations you rely upon to maintain the illusion that you have a paranormal ability.

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The human mind and very slight outside influences.
If you have no way to control for variable, you have no basis for claiming their influence must be slight.

You're doing what every charlatan mentalist. You're selectively claiming science has the power only to confirm your claims, not to refute them.

Last edited by JayUtah; 15th May 2017 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 15th May 2017, 06:12 PM   #3464
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Hi PartSkeptic,

You posted this:

It is not a test. If it was God would refuse to take part.

So:

How do you know this?

Thank you...
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Last edited by Rincewind; 15th May 2017 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 16th May 2017, 12:09 AM   #3465
PartSkeptic
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Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
Hi PartSkeptic,

You posted this:

It is not a test. If it was God would refuse to take part.

So:

How do you know this?

Thank you...

There are many examples of the supernatural. Typically they happen to one person and have not been recorded to give absolute proof. They are one-time events for the most part.

Every time one tries to test for supernatural events they ALL fail. This is proof to an atheist that God does not exist. But that argument does not hold water for a believer - they believe that God does not want his existence to be proven.

There are many fakes and frauds. Thee are also many who take minor happenings as proof of the supernatural, when in fact confirmation bias is at work.

The range of supernatural events I have experienced lead me to think that the probability that God exists is high. It still is not 100% proof, but it is getting close. But to others, they are skeptical of the personal claims of others. So am I when I hear the stories of others.

Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad are examples of people who have been truly inspired. Their works are outdated and have some flaws, but the basics appear to be divinely inspired. Most believers think so.

You make a choice as to what to believe and why. Free will would be drastically decreased if God proved he exists.
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Old 16th May 2017, 01:09 AM   #3466
Cosmic Yak
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Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
There are many examples of the supernatural. Typically they happen to one person and have not been recorded to give absolute proof. They are one-time events for the most part.

Every time one tries to test for supernatural events they ALL fail. This is proof to an atheist that God does not exist. But that argument does not hold water for a believer - they believe that God does not want his existence to be proven.
No, apart from strong atheists. The genral meaning of atheism is a lack of belief that gods exist, due to the complete lack of evidence. Were there evidence, I, and presumably most people on or off this forum, would become theists.
Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
There are many fakes and frauds. Thee are also many who take minor happenings as proof of the supernatural, when in fact confirmation bias is at work.
Minor happenings like faulty plumbing, you mean?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
The range of supernatural events I have experienced lead me to think that the probability that God exists is high. It still is not 100% proof, but it is getting close. But to others, they are skeptical of the personal claims of others. So am I when I hear the stories of others.
You have yet to post any examples of 'supernatural events' that have actually been supernatural. Would you like to correct this deficiency?

You are skeptical of the stories of others, yet expect us to swallow everything you say uncritically? Do you see any kind of dichotomy here?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
Abraham, Jesus and Muhammad are examples of people who have been truly inspired. Their works are outdated and have some flaws, but the basics appear to be divinely inspired. Most believers think so.
God appeared in person to Abraham (Genesis 18: 1-33); Jesus was (so we are supposed to believe) the Son of God, who appeared on earth as a human, and spoke to many people, as well as performing miracles to prove his claim; the angel Gabriel appeared to Mohammed in person to deliver the Quran (or at least this was his claim).
You say that "God does not want his existence to be proven". At what point did this god make that decision? It was presumably some time after the 7th century. What, in your opinion, made this god change his mind?

Originally Posted by PartSkeptic View Post
You make a choice as to what to believe and why. Free will would be drastically decreased if God proved he exists.
And yet this apparently didn't bother god at all until some time after the 7th century. Are you asserting that no-one from Biblical times up to the time of Mohammed had free will? If so, I think you need to explain this a whole lot more.
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Old 16th May 2017, 04:51 AM   #3467
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"Supernatural is a null term." - Robert Heinlien
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Old 28th May 2017, 05:58 AM   #3468
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Mod InfoThread continued here, as this one has become slow.
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