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Old 7th June 2020, 04:49 AM   #1
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Black Crime: An Explanation

It seems in the midst of any racially contentious event many love to trot out black crime statistics as a device to dog whistle to racist without providing a solution or explanation so let me explain. First it needs to be said, to attribute crime in black communities to nothing but poverty (as many do) is doing a huge disservice to the complexity and origin of this problem.


Let's be clear, these high crime communities represent the direct pipeline from slavery, to Jim crow, to ghettoization (and yes that's a real sociological term). For example Jew's were ghettoized (forced into segregated communities) by mandate, while blacks were ghettoized by policies and practices made to restrict movement, autonomy and contact with whites (specifically residential redlining, restrictive covenants, blockbusting, racial steering and secondary causes like white flight). Hence nearly every sizable american city has a ghetto(s). It was a successful campaign


Being trapped on an island of poverty combined with the effects of social isolation, concentrated poverty, generational wealth inequality and alienation, high crime is inevitable.


The mitigating factor that continues to fuel this fire is the drug war. We all know how disastrous prohibition was and the drug war = prohibition 2.0. Just like alcohol prohibition it promotes the development of organized crime, destabilizes communities and grows black markets. In many instances ghettoized black communities adapted to the restrictive, impoverished economic environment, and participation in the black market economy became mainstreamed and somewhat normative within many of these communities.

The difference between prohibition 1.0 and 2.0 is the secondary human cost of the drug war is exponentially higher but wasn't enough for the Gov't to stop waging the war unlike alcohol prohibition (presumably because the primary casualties are black Americans with minor collateral damage to white communities). The war being waged was fought mostly in impoverished black communities and the casualties of this "war" weren't/aren't attributed to a failed, broken, racially biased system but are wrongly attributed to failures In character and black culture.


Let's be clear, this phenomenon is a legacy/vestige of jim crow America and as long as we believe we can beat, arrest and imprison the problem away, nothing will change.
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Old 7th June 2020, 04:50 AM   #2
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Cont'd...

These upheavels seem to represent another glaring example of "the chickens coming home to roost". Another reminder of Americas abject failure in adequately addressing and reconciling racial inequality and injustices of the past. A violent representation of the results of the benign neglect, overpolicing and antagonism the black community recieved in the post civil rights era. After 100,s of years of oppression and degredation America turned its back on black America in the post civil rights era and asked it to pull itself up by its own boot straps when the bootstraps were violently removed. I think this is a prime moment for America to reflect and look in the mirror and realize we've come a long way but we have a long, long way to go.
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Old 7th June 2020, 06:10 AM   #3
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This pretty much mirrors my thought. Note that it’s not confined to “black” crime, although that’s what we tend to see in our cities. In other areas of the world, the same factors play out, and have played out for a long time. The street-gang problems in major cities like London and New York in the 19th century, the rise of organized crime among ethnic communities due to prohibiition...
All rather similar. People who have very limited chances to get ahead in any way taking advantage of whatever situation they can.

I remember an NPR report on a study of the greater Detroit area during the height of the “rust belt” depression. They said that literally billions of dollars flowed through the area, fueled almost entirely by the drug trade. These monies kept small businesses alive, as folks selling drugs need products and services too...

And, it’s pretty obvious that despite many many years of well-intentioned “programs” to address these issues, most have been spectacular failures.
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Old 7th June 2020, 07:08 AM   #4
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I recall reading about a policeman in England who had gone undercover to try to bust the drug gangs. His personal life had suffered considerably and he had been in fairly severe danger. It was hard, exhausting and soul-destroying work requiring him to stay "in character" for weeks at a time. He did it out of a genuine desire to reduce drug pushing and make society better.

Looking back, he said he wished he'd never got involved. For all the hardships he endured and the sacrifices he made, any gains that resulted were only temporary and within a short time it was as if he had never been. A completely different approach is essential but politicians will never do it.
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Old 7th June 2020, 07:52 AM   #5
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An element of self-perpetuated this problem has is that of children living in fatherless homes. The fathers are unknown, locked up, or killed and fatherlessness is associated with just about all of the worst social ills (See: Dr. Warren Farrel's 'The Boy Crisis'). When one considers that this can sometimes occur simply due to a bit of drug use (with has various levels of legality around the world now - slowly increasing legality) I think one quickly realizes how insane the problem is.
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Old 7th June 2020, 10:48 AM   #6
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Red face

Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
This pretty much mirrors my thought. Note that it’s not confined to “black” crime, although that’s what we tend to see in our cities. In other areas of the world, the same factors play out, and have played out for a long time. The street-gang problems in major cities like London and New York in the 19th century, the rise of organized crime among ethnic communities due to prohibiition...
All rather similar. People who have very limited chances to get ahead in any way taking advantage of whatever situation they can.
Bingo. That's exactly why I drew the parallels between prohibition and the drug war and their outcomes. But hieren lies the problem. In the case of prohibition the Gov't reacted to the human cost (death, disorder and organized crime) by ending it. The st. Valentine's day massacre was enough to gode them into bailing on the idea while in the case of the drug war black (and in many brown) communities have had a st. Valentines day massacre a million times over but the reaction was to ratchet up the crusade rather then wind it down to the detriment of the economic and social viability of black America

Many simply attribute the problem of high black crime to poor culture or poverty when in reality it is endemic to the draconian measures taken during the drug war (over policing, harsher sentencing guidelines for fairly minor offenses, the criminalization of drug use, 3 strikes, ect) and their consequences combined with the generational effects of segregation and concentrated poverty. No doubt this reaction was a direct consequence of this country's tendency to view black men antagonisticly and has racist origins.

We created this problem much in the same way we created ISIS by bombing the middle east to smithereens and we created the drug cartel problem with our massive black market that stems from this prohibition 2.0. This is our Frankensteins monster and the modern conventional wisdom that we can police and arrest the problem away is simply wrong and serves as a cautionary tale

Quote:
And, it’s pretty obvious that despite many many years of well-intentioned “programs” to address these issues, most have been spectacular failures.
Yep. None of these programs get to the root of the problem. Also I think it was a huge mistake to believe members of a permanent underclass could sustain itself, with or without social programs. No one succeeds in a vacuum

Incredibly poor people with literally no generational wealth or capital inherited entire cities like Detroit and new Orleans from fleeing whites and well to do blacks and we act surprised when these cities crumble and descend into chaos. Cant blame the inhabitants for drowning on a sinking ship
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Old 7th June 2020, 02:10 PM   #7
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What an excellent summary of the problems facing black communities, and the reasons why black crime statistics are as high as they are. It points directly backwards toward the way blacks have been treated in America for the last 200 years. in a direct line....

slavery > containment > abandonment > isolation > limitation > desperation > survival

ANY group of people, regardless of ethnicity or skin colour, will eventually resort to unsavory means to ensure survival - its something that is instinctively built into all humans.

Of course, you will never convince the racists and white supremacists on this forum (or anywhere else) to accept your summary because it points directly away from their chosen narrative that "blacks are criminal by nature".
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Old 7th June 2020, 03:20 PM   #8
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Good post.
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Old 7th June 2020, 03:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Juniversal
What an excellent summary of the problems facing black communities, and the reasons why black crime statistics are as high as they are. It points directly backwards toward the way blacks have been treated in America for the last 200 years. in a direct line....

slavery > containment > abandonment > isolation > limitation > desperation > survival
You're obviously aware we have a sector of NZ society that mirrors the problems and outcomes black Americans face - high unemployment & prison stats, poor health outcomes & lower life expectancy, lack of two-parent families, and living in poverty.

Yet, none of the points you list happened to Maori, the odd unsavoury incident during the Land Wars aside*. They were never enslaved (by whites), and while some were dispossessed of land, always had some of their own lands and were never in survival mode. Maori men with land had the vote long before women.

I'm always troubled by the fact that history is used as an excuse for criminality, and in NZ, we have the superb comparison of Pasifika people.

They occupy an even lower rung than Maori, having no Iwi with billions of dollars and no ancestral land. They have almost identical poverty and lack of parenting, but form nowhere near the percentage of criminals that Maori do.

I don't have any answers, but I don't think those answers are as convenient as people would like to think they are.

* It's important to note that the Land Wars wouldn't have happened had many Maori not fought alongside Europeans, and it's certain a high percentage of Maori deaths were at the hands of Maori rather than British.
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Old 7th June 2020, 04:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You're obviously aware we have a sector of NZ society that mirrors the problems and outcomes black Americans face - high unemployment & prison stats, poor health outcomes & lower life expectancy, lack of two-parent families, and living in poverty.

Yet, none of the points you list happened to Maori, the odd unsavoury incident during the Land Wars aside*. They were never enslaved (by whites), and while some were dispossessed of land, always had some of their own lands and were never in survival mode. Maori men with land had the vote long before women.

I'm always troubled by the fact that history is used as an excuse for criminality, and in NZ, we have the superb comparison of Pasifika people.

They occupy an even lower rung than Maori, having no Iwi with billions of dollars and no ancestral land. They have almost identical poverty and lack of parenting, but form nowhere near the percentage of criminals that Maori do.

I don't have any answers, but I don't think those answers are as convenient as people would like to think they are.

* It's important to note that the Land Wars wouldn't have happened had many Maori not fought alongside Europeans, and it's certain a high percentage of Maori deaths were at the hands of Maori rather than British.
Did you miss the part about the significance of prohibition and the drug war? America being the richest country in the world with incredibly restrictive drug policies has an absolutley massive exploitable black market. It's the reason the mexican drug cartels are so powerful and deadly. It's a multi-billion dollar industry

ETA: misunderstood the content of your post but knowing nothing of Australian culture I couldn't give an accurate assessment without knowing all the historical nuances of the populations
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Old 7th June 2020, 04:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You're obviously aware we have a sector of NZ society that mirrors the problems and outcomes black Americans face - high unemployment & prison stats, poor health outcomes & lower life expectancy, lack of two-parent families, and living in poverty.

Yet, none of the points you list happened to Maori, the odd unsavoury incident during the Land Wars aside*. They were never enslaved (by whites), and while some were dispossessed of land, always had some of their own lands and were never in survival mode. Maori men with land had the vote long before women.

I'm always troubled by the fact that history is used as an excuse for criminality, and in NZ, we have the superb comparison of Pasifika people.

They occupy an even lower rung than Maori, having no Iwi with billions of dollars and no ancestral land. They have almost identical poverty and lack of parenting, but form nowhere near the percentage of criminals that Maori do.

I don't have any answers, but I don't think those answers are as convenient as people would like to think they are.

* It's important to note that the Land Wars wouldn't have happened had many Maori not fought alongside Europeans, and it's certain a high percentage of Maori deaths were at the hands of Maori rather than British.
Juniversal got in ahead of me, but I guess you missed reading this bit of my post...

"It points directly backwards toward the way blacks have been treated in America for the last 200 years."


While we might not have had slavery, we still have many of the other indicators. Also, Maori are indigenous, there weren't brought to the country as slaves.

Also, I don't think the racism that Maori face is anywhere near as serious or as outright systematic as it is in the US - When was the last time a Maori or Pasifika person was gunned down or choked to death, by either a cop or a private citizen or a couple gun-toting rednecks who chased him down for seven minutes, for no other reason that the colour of their skin?

There are many reasons why groups of people end up in poverty or being disadvantaged members of society; they are not always the same reasons and they vary from country to country, from society to society. For example, Travelers/Gypsies - they are mostly white, they are not exactly rich people, except for those who are part of its criminal underbelly. They do what it is they need to do in order to survive. However what Juniversal is saying here does apply to what he is talking about (and what I was talking about) - Black crime in the USA.
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Old 7th June 2020, 04:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Did you miss the part about the significance of prohibition and the drug war? America being the richest country in the world with incredibly restrictive drug policies has an absolutley massive exploitable black market. It's the reason the mexican drug cartels are so powerful and deadly. It's a multi-billion dollar industry

ETA: misunderstood the content of your post but knowing nothing of Australian New Zealand culture I couldn't give an accurate assessment without knowing all the historical nuances of the populations
Friendly FTFY

We don't much like being mistaken for Australians
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Old 7th June 2020, 05:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
...but knowing nothing of Australian culture...
Oh, you're just looking for trouble now!
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Old 7th June 2020, 07:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Friendly FTFY

We don't much like being mistaken for Australians
Haha my bad. Brain fart lol.. I'm so sorry! Never will confuse your people with those degenerates again
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Old 8th June 2020, 03:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Many simply attribute the problem of high black crime to poor culture or poverty when in reality it is endemic to the draconian measures taken during the drug war (over policing, harsher sentencing guidelines for fairly minor offenses, the criminalization of drug use, 3 strikes, ect) and their consequences combined with the generational effects of segregation and concentrated poverty.
Relevant, on the subject of the origins of the war on drugs: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/p...pie/index.html

Quote:
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.

"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
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Old 8th June 2020, 03:59 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Friendly FTFY

We don't much like being mistaken for Australians
Say "fish and chips"...
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Old 8th June 2020, 04:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Relevant, on the subject of the origins of the war on drugs: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/p...pie/index.html
Sorry to repeat, but some of this needs emphasis and comment...
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday."
Jesus, Nixon was such a crook, and a corrupt piece of slime
"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the (Vietnam) war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
So, they worked their way around the law by lying.... nothing much has changed has it? The Republicans used that methodology again when they lied about Saddam Hussein's WMD to justify attacking Iraq.
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Old 8th June 2020, 05:01 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Relevant, on the subject of the origins of the war on drugs: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/p...pie/index.html
Thanks for the link... The GOP was at best indifferent to the plight of black america and at worst actively attempting to sabotage the black community.

Also relevant is Lee Atwater (Reagan's political strategist) admitting to subversive desire to undermine the black community and their appropriation of racist dog whistles in statement on the Southern strategy:

https://www.thenation.com/article/ar...hern-strategy/

Quote:
You start out in 1954 by saying, “N**ger, N**ger, N**ger.” By 1968 you can’t say “n**ger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N**ger, N**ger.”
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Old 8th June 2020, 05:07 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Sorry to repeat, but some of this needs emphasis and comment...
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday."
Jesus, Nixon was such a crook, and a corrupt piece of slime
"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the (Vietnam) war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
So, they worked their way around the law by lying.... nothing much has changed has it? The Republicans used that methodology again when they lied about Saddam Hussein's WMD to justify attacking Iraq.
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Old 8th June 2020, 05:54 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Bingo. That's exactly why I drew the parallels between prohibition and the drug war and their outcomes. But hieren lies the problem. In the case of prohibition the Gov't reacted to the human cost (death, disorder and organized crime) by ending it. The st. Valentine's day massacre was enough to gode them into bailing on the idea while in the case of the drug war black (and in many brown) communities have had a st. Valentines day massacre a million times over but the reaction was to ratchet up the crusade rather then wind it down to the detriment of the economic and social viability of black America

Many simply attribute the problem of high black crime to poor culture or poverty when in reality it is endemic to the draconian measures taken during the drug war (over policing, harsher sentencing guidelines for fairly minor offenses, the criminalization of drug use, 3 strikes, ect) and their consequences combined with the generational effects of segregation and concentrated poverty. No doubt this reaction was a direct consequence of this country's tendency to view black men antagonisticly and has racist origins.

We created this problem much in the same way we created ISIS by bombing the middle east to smithereens and we created the drug cartel problem with our massive black market that stems from this prohibition 2.0. This is our Frankensteins monster and the modern conventional wisdom that we can police and arrest the problem away is simply wrong and serves as a cautionary tale

Yep. None of these programs get to the root of the problem. Also I think it was a huge mistake to believe members of a permanent underclass could sustain itself, with or without social programs. No one succeeds in a vacuum

Incredibly poor people with literally no generational wealth or capital inherited entire cities like Detroit and new Orleans from fleeing whites and well to do blacks and we act surprised when these cities crumble and descend into chaos. Cant blame the inhabitants for drowning on a sinking ship
I grew up in Detroit During that process (born there in '67- stayed until 1991).

With the "white flight" went the tax base. It happened so rapidly that a substantial portion of the residential properties were simply abandoned- as they could not be sold for enough to even cover back taxes.
The vacant properties became convenient locations for drug use, and arson- making it even more unbearable for the few of us who were trying to remain.

This problem could have been easily remedied by the suburban liberals. Housing in Detroit was insanely cheap (if one was willing to do some rehab at one point a house could be purchased for $1). They could have moved in. Problem solved.

Eventually, they did decide to gentrify some very small regions of Downtown that had managed to escape total destruction through the decades. But the prospect of diluting the "bad" neighborhoods with enough working, tax paying, citizens who would take advantage of local businesses and keep entire neighborhoods from sinking into poverty locked ghettos was always too much of a stretch for them.
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Old 8th June 2020, 05:54 AM   #21
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The entire issue is pretty much predicated on the false belief that the Black man is little more than an animal, unable to control himself, and should he be let out from under the civilizing heel of the white man, he will succumb to his true bestial nature and murder all good god fearing white folks in their beds.

This was the lie told to scare whites into refusing the abolition of slavery, and it is the lie that has continued to be told ever since.

When you view Blacks in such a way it only makes sense to contain, isolation, limit, and incarcerate them, after all, if you don't, they will kill you.
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Old 8th June 2020, 06:27 AM   #22
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Racism and the Police in the USA

It is pretty long this time, 33:30 minutes. I can recommend all of it, but for the purpose of the discussion in this thread, you should watch at least the last 3:30 minutes, from 30:00:

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (June 7, 2020): Police

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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th June 2020, 06:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The entire issue is pretty much predicated on the false belief that the Black man is little more than an animal, unable to control himself, and should he be let out from under the civilizing heel of the white man, he will succumb to his true bestial nature and murder all good god fearing white folks in their beds.

This was the lie told to scare whites into refusing the abolition of slavery, and it is the lie that has continued to be told ever since.

When you view Blacks in such a way it only makes sense to contain, isolation, limit, and incarcerate them, after all, if you don't, they will kill you.
If their intention is to prove they are not naturally more violent, impulsive, destructive, dangerous and criminal - they've got a funny way of going about it.
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Old 8th June 2020, 07:35 AM   #24
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Who? The white cops and other racists?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th June 2020, 07:55 AM   #25
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In the fifties, everything was so much more peaceful because everyone RESPECTED each other regardless of skin color. Shouting "racism" just further divides this once-great country. People have lost respect for the flag, God, and themselves. The youth are brain-warshed into hating police officers and idolizing wrappers. Put your d*mn computer phones away and look up to your elders. We know what we're talking about!
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Old 8th June 2020, 07:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
In the fifties, everything was so much more peaceful because everyone RESPECTED each other regardless of skin color. Shouting "racism" just further divides this once-great country. People have lost respect for the flag, God, and themselves. The youth are brain-warshed into hating police officers and idolizing wrappers. Put your d*mn computer phones away and look up to your elders. We know what we're talking about!
In the fifties, there was racial segregation written into the law and black people couldn't vote in the South. What are you talking about?
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Old 8th June 2020, 08:14 AM   #27
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Of note: Skeptic Tank claims that he used to be a liberal - one who voted for Obama, no less - but who was converted into a racist by an examination of the evidence of higher rates of black crime in the US.

Here he comes in to a thread which discusses the root causes of the higher rates of black crime in the US and instead of engaging with the topic, he chooses to post something glib in the hopes of derailing the thread.

You'll find something similar happens whenever a follower of "scientific racism" is actually confronted with evidence that contradicts their beliefs. The idea that their racism is evidence-based is always an excuse.

Which is kind of ironic, because the history of racism described in this thread is also the history of pseudo-scientific justification of that racism. And it's still essentially the same justifications as for slavery, Jim Crow, etc. And it's still all the same thing - dehumanise black people, so that you can justify institutional and personal racism.
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Old 8th June 2020, 09:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
In the fifties, there was racial segregation written into the law and black people couldn't vote in the South. What are you talking about?
It is no longer written into law.
Why is it still so prevalent?
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Old 8th June 2020, 09:14 AM   #29
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As to the Maori issues, I donít think anyone proposed that you can only end up with a self destructive culture, through systemic oppression. There are certainly other ways to get there.
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Old 8th June 2020, 09:30 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
In the fifties, there was racial segregation written into the law and black people couldn't vote in the South. What are you talking about?
You're being Cained.
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Old 8th June 2020, 09:33 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It is no longer written into law.
Why is it still so prevalent?
Because laws didn't create the racist attitude, it merely reflected the perspective of those who were able to make laws.
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Old 8th June 2020, 09:33 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You're being Cained.

Yeah. I liked wrappers and computer phones!
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th June 2020, 09:38 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
As to the Maori issues, I donít think anyone proposed that you can only end up with a self destructive culture, through systemic oppression. There are certainly other ways to get there.
Perhaps it doesn't need to be active oppression by the majority, but simply not having significant weight in political decisions. Neglect, as well as abuse, can lead to a lack of power.
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Old 8th June 2020, 10:00 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
You're being Cained.
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Old 8th June 2020, 10:45 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Because laws didn't create the racist attitude, it merely reflected the perspective of those who were able to make laws.
I am witnessing daily seemingly millions of white protestors demonstrating their lack of racist attitudes.
Why do they not end segregation by relocating themselves to "black" neighborhoods.

Black neighborhoods are generally much more economical to live in, so the burden is almost nonexistent.
Why do they not do this?

Do they not feel that segregation is a bad thing?
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Old 8th June 2020, 10:51 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
As to the Maori issues, I donít think anyone proposed that you can only end up with a self destructive culture, through systemic oppression.
Except that's exactly what Maori claim.
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Old 8th June 2020, 01:38 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Except that's exactly what Maori claim.
They're claiming that "you can only end up with a self destructive culture, through systemic oppression." and that there is nothing else that can be causal.

You got a sourse for that claim?
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Old 8th June 2020, 02:16 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
It is no longer written into law.
Why is it still so prevalent?
See: The reference to the process of ghettoization in my OP. Sociological phenomenon that stems from jim crow era policies and practices that crystallized the racial landscape and created black ghettos.

Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
I am witnessing daily seemingly millions of white protestors demonstrating their lack of racist attitudes.
Why do they not end segregation by relocating themselves to "black" neighborhoods.

Black neighborhoods are generally much more economical to live in, so the burden is almost nonexistent.
Why do they not do this?

Do they not feel that segregation is a bad thing?
You're making the same mistake so many in this country make in treating segregated black ghetto's as some sort of reasonable analogue for your average white neighborhood. They aren't. They should only be compared to other ghettos or slum areas. NOBODY wants to live in a segregated high crime slum (or slum adjacent) community. Black or white. Nothing bigoted about it.


Using immigrant slums of the 1800's and early 1900's as analogues for black ghettos is much more apt. When the members of immigrant slums gained upward mobility they moved OUT of these slum areas. They didn't transform them from the inside out.


Only black america has been burdened with the expectation of transforming these down trodden slum areas into thriving bastions of middle class glory. This seems to be some sort of relic of jim crow era thinking (that a self-sustaining separate but equal black America could and should exist). As I said earlier no one succeeds in a vacuum.
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Old 8th June 2020, 02:32 PM   #39
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Also speaking of slum adjacent communities, thanks to ghettoization and redlining many middle class/lower middleclass black neighborhoods didn't receive the same capital as middle class white neighborhoods and were resultingly located on the fringes of the impoverished black ghetto. As a result crime was more prevalent and neighborhoods more dilapidated (which added to this notion that "blacks can't take care of "their" neighborhoods" and prone to criminality).

The solid economic buffer protecting white neighborhoods from overlap from poor, high crime populations doesn't exist for many middle class black populations. A self-fulfilling prophecy was created. This is also why black America has a much more contiguous culture and dialect regardless of socioeconomic status and region (relatively speaking).
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Old 8th June 2020, 02:46 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Except that's exactly what Maori claim.
You think that the land wars were the only confiscation of Maori lands and destruction of their businesses and culture?

When you systematically suppress a culture and forcibly remove the means of production from that culture, how is that not systemic oppression?
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