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Old 9th June 2020, 09:44 PM   #81
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think that the Mandella Effect must be real in your world. Lincoln didn't think that Blacks should be sent back to Africa because Blacks were dangerous, but rather he thought that they should leave the US because he believed that Whites would be so hostile to the Freed slaves that they would always be in danger and could never gain peace and prosperity while in the US. One could give him points there for his prescience.

You are also incorrect as to the reasons for Emancipation. The issue that faced Lincoln was that large numbers of Blacks were moving north after either being freed from plantations, or simply escaping to behind Union lines. Lincoln realised that it would be hard to house and find employment for such numbers, and so decided to fully side with the Abolitionists for Military tactical reasons. The major two reasons were to undercut the South's reliance on slavery by creating a way for slaves to become free and thus creating a enticement for slaves to escape the South and weaken their economy and production further, and secondly, it gave him the ability to recruit those freed slaves into the Union ranks, thus boosting the size of the Union Military. Both of these things he determined would help to end the rebellion faster and allow for the resettlement of the freed slaves, thus taking the pressure of the North's infrastructure.

None of Lincoln's actions had to do with fear of blacks.
Interesting that it takes a Kiwi to teach an American about American history (always keeping in mind that certain Americans have a tendency to cherry-pick, re-interpret and "re-purpose" parts of American history to fit their personal worldview)
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:10 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Interesting that it takes a Kiwi to teach an American about American history (always keeping in mind that certain Americans have a tendency to cherry-pick, re-interpret and "re-purpose" parts of American history to fit their personal worldview)
Welcome to the American education system
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:20 PM   #83
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And yep, people tend to strain history through the filter of their own personal biases and belief system.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:36 PM   #84
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(The following quotes from PhantomWolf are snipped and clipped for focus)

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think that the Mandella Effect must be real in your world. Lincoln didn't think that Blacks should be sent back to Africa because Blacks were dangerous, but rather he thought that they should leave the US because he believed that Whites would be so hostile to the Freed slaves that they would always be in danger and could never gain peace and prosperity while in the US.
Yes, Lincoln was definitely primarily worried about the behavior of whites, not the blacks he was on record as thinking shouldn't be able to vote, serve on juries, hold office, or intermarry with whites. (From your own link) Good call.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
One could give him points there for his prescience.
Word.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
None of Lincoln's actions had to do with fear of blacks.
Yeah, he was totally unafraid of the people he wanted to be prohibited from genetically mixing with his group or having any sort of political influence while they remained in his nation, prior to when he could get rid of them entirely.

Not an iota of concern on his part about the blacks or their potential to damage the nation, nope. He was only, and purely, concerned about whites not being able to handle the awesome experience of sharing a nation with these, the finest our species has to offer.

Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
And yep, people tend to strain history through the filter of their own personal biases and belief system.
You mean like pretending a man from the 1800s who was on the record as being openly white supremacist was more worried about the violent intolerance of whites than he was about the dangers represented by blacks, who he was on the record as thinking were inferior and unsuited to white society?
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:58 PM   #85
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Post

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
You mean like pretending a man from the 1800s who was on the record as being openly white supremacist was more worried about the violent intolerance of whites than he was about the dangers represented by blacks, who he was on the record as thinking were inferior and unsuited to white society?
Lincoln wasnt an activist. I'd be the first to tell you his decision to sign the emancipation proclamation was 100% pragmatic and wasn't out of empathy for the slave population. He believed the country was imperiled and ending slavery was the path of least resistance.
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Old 12th June 2020, 06:52 PM   #86
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Steve Sailer in Takimag

Steve Sailer mentioned some of the same unmentionables that I did in my last post.

"The single most relevant fact for understanding America right now is the one you are least supposed to mention: Blacks are vastly more homicidal than any other racial or ethnic group."

"History has been rewritten so that liberalism didn’t fail, it was never even tried. Therefore, we are being lectured to adopt the same policies today that managed to double the murder rate over the course of the 1960s and 1970s."

But we don't even have to look back that far back. We can just look back to Black Lives Matter version 1.0 circa 2014 - 2016. The murder rate increased nationally 25% between the years 2014 and 2016.

We have yet to see what kind of havoc Black Lives Matter version 2.0 (2020) may wreck upon our cities. But one thing is clear, the modern Left will learn nothing from it. As I wrote previously,

"...the problem with the modern Left is that it is a hermetically sealed ideology that prevents any feedback from reality from intruding upon its sacred beliefs."
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Old 12th June 2020, 07:59 PM   #87
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Lincoln probably had a more defeatist attitude when it came to the black community. He thought they were better off away from white society (for their own good).

He wasn't a white supremacist.
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Old 12th June 2020, 08:42 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Steve Sailer mentioned
Good link, thanks. I saw Charles Murray tweet this link out earlier, talking about how nobody would publish a paper like this today:

Hoover Institute - James Q. Wilson - Crime

Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Lincoln probably had a more defeatist attitude when it came to the black community. He thought they were better off away from white society (for their own good).

He wasn't a white supremacist.

From Snopes.com:

Quote:
"During his famous debates with Sen. Stephen Douglas, Lincoln explained to the crowd: “I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races … I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be a position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.

Lincoln was no different than most white males, North and South, at the time. He was a white supremacist."
The last bit about "he was a white supremacist" is Snopes.com editorializing, but I guarantee you that if I or anyone else said exactly what Lincoln said in the quote above today, there'd be very little debate about whether we were white supremacists, having said those things.
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Old 12th June 2020, 08:51 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Steve Sailer mentioned some of the same unmentionables that I did in my last post.

"The single most relevant fact for understanding America right now is the one you are least supposed to mention: Blacks are vastly more homicidal than any other racial or ethnic group."
Really? By my calculations it would take Blacks in the US over 3,000 years to catch up to number of the murders committed by whites in Germany in the ten years between 1935 and 1945,
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Old 12th June 2020, 08:56 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Steve Sailer mentioned some of the same unmentionables that I did in my last post.

"The single most relevant fact for understanding America right now is the one you are least supposed to mention: Blacks are vastly more homicidal than any other racial or ethnic group."

"History has been rewritten so that liberalism didn’t fail, it was never even tried. Therefore, we are being lectured to adopt the same policies today that managed to double the murder rate over the course of the 1960s and 1970s."

But we don't even have to look back that far back. We can just look back to Black Lives Matter version 1.0 circa 2014 - 2016. The murder rate increased nationally 25% between the years 2014 and 2016.

We have yet to see what kind of havoc Black Lives Matter version 2.0 (2020) may wreck upon our cities. But one thing is clear, the modern Left will learn nothing from it. As I wrote previously,

"...the problem with the modern Left is that it is a hermetically sealed ideology that prevents any feedback from reality from intruding upon its sacred beliefs."
It's a good thing that you don't live in the States then, isn't it?
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Old 12th June 2020, 09:15 PM   #91
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Technology and hysteria was a bit different in Lincoln's day.

Tribalism is required for life to exist on this planet, humans would not be here without it.
Buzzwords like supremacy and racism have turned into hysterical cults of hate.
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Old 13th June 2020, 02:00 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
Tribalism is required for life to exist on this planet, humans would not be here without it.
Buzzwords like supremacy and racism have turned into hysterical cults of hate.
Well put.
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Old 13th June 2020, 05:23 AM   #93
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You got a claqueur! Congratulations!
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Old 13th June 2020, 05:26 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Guss View Post
Tribalism is required for life to exist on this planet, humans would not be here without it.
Buzzwords like supremacy and racism have turned into hysterical cults of hate.

Tribalism is a human invention, which has nothing at all to do with the existence of life on this or any other planet. And humans could do without it.
Supremacy and racism are hysterical cults of hate.


Wait a minute! Is that your brand-new sock puppet, Cain?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:44 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Good link, thanks. I saw Charles Murray tweet this link out earlier, talking about how nobody would publish a paper like this today:

Hoover Institute - James Q. Wilson - Crime
I believe it was Peter Brimelow who referred to this time period (90s) as the interglacial. It was a time when the ice thawed and people could speak more honestly on racial issues.

"A central problem—perhaps the central problem—in improving the relationship between white and black Americans is the difference in racial crime rates."
James Q Wilson

One thing that is rarely mentioned is how much the black crime rate increased during the the Civil Rights and desegregation era. The black murder rate increased about 90% during the 60s just as the races were being integrated. Would it have been different if the black crime rate continued to decline as it did in the 50s? Regardless, white flight was the response to integration and black crime.


Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really? By my calculations it would take Blacks in the US over 3,000 years to catch up to number of the murders committed by whites in Germany in the ten years between 1935 and 1945,
We are talking about crime rates, not people killed during a war. East Asians have low crime rates. I suppose someone could mention the atrocities of Imperial Japan, Khmer Rouge and the Mongols. This doesn't change the fact that the Japanese are much more law abiding than Brazilians.


Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
It's a good thing that you don't live in the States then, isn't it?
Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name, and other times you want to be Daniel in the Lion's Den.

Originally Posted by Guss View Post
Tribalism is required for life to exist on this planet, humans would not be here without it.
Buzzwords like supremacy and racism have turned into hysterical cults of hate.
This view was common amongst the ancients.

"Now, that man is more of a political animal than bees or any other gregarious animals is evident."
Aristotle

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Tribalism is a human invention, which has nothing at all to do with the existence of life on this or any other planet. And humans could do without it.
Supremacy and racism are hysterical cults of hate.
Go live like Robinson Crusoe and tell me how that works out.

"Hence it is evident that the state is a creation of nature, and that man is by nature a political animal. And he who by nature and not by mere accident is without a state, is either a bad man or above humanity; he is like the 'Tribeless, lawless, hearthless one.'"
Aristotle
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:52 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Lincoln probably had a more defeatist attitude when it came to the black community. He thought they were better off away from white society (for their own good).

He wasn't a white supremacist.
“I can conceive of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal…" —Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1862

"We can never attain the ideal Union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desirable.” —Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1862

Last edited by Skeptic Tank; 13th June 2020 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:53 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I think that the Mandella Effect must be real in your world. Lincoln didn't think that Blacks should be sent back to Africa because Blacks were dangerous, but rather he thought that they should leave the US because he believed that Whites would be so hostile to the Freed slaves that they would always be in danger and could never gain peace and prosperity while in the US. One could give him points there for his prescience.

You are also incorrect as to the reasons for Emancipation. The issue that faced Lincoln was that large numbers of Blacks were moving north after either being freed from plantations, or simply escaping to behind Union lines. Lincoln realised that it would be hard to house and find employment for such numbers, and so decided to fully side with the Abolitionists for Military tactical reasons. The major two reasons were to undercut the South's reliance on slavery by creating a way for slaves to become free and thus creating a enticement for slaves to escape the South and weaken their economy and production further, and secondly, it gave him the ability to recruit those freed slaves into the Union ranks, thus boosting the size of the Union Military. Both of these things he determined would help to end the rebellion faster and allow for the resettlement of the freed slaves, thus taking the pressure of the North's infrastructure.

None of Lincoln's actions had to do with fear of blacks.
You say that Lincoln didn't believe that former slaves were a danger to the community and then tell us several dangers he feared the former slaves represented to the community. At least you seem to recognize that the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't an expression of Abraham Lincoln's belief in the equality of Europeans and Africans, his concern for the plight of the slave population or even a burning hatred of the institution of slavery but merely a cynical PR stunt he hoped would help the outcome of the war.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:08 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Interesting that it takes a Kiwi to teach an American about American history (always keeping in mind that certain Americans have a tendency to cherry-pick, re-interpret and "re-purpose" parts of American history to fit their personal worldview)
It would be more interesting if their information about US history was accurate.
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Old 13th June 2020, 10:41 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Lincoln probably had a more defeatist attitude when it came to the black community. He thought they were better off away from white society (for their own good).

He wasn't a white supremacist.
Is there anybody else who thinks that black people shouldn't be allowed to live with white people who you would say is totally not a white supremacist?
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:20 AM   #100
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Quote:
Also, I don't think the racism that Maori face is anywhere near as serious or as outright systematic as it is in the US - When was the last time a Maori or Pasifika person was gunned down or choked to death, by either a cop or a private citizen or a couple gun-toting rednecks who chased him down for seven minutes, for no other reason that the colour of their skin?
A quick google search

Quote:
Maori and Pacific people make up about 25% of New Zealand's population. But in the last decade, 66% of people shot by police have been members of the Maori and Pacific Islander communities, according to advocates and news reports. Maori and Pacific people are also more likely to be tasered and pepper-sprayed than white New Zealanders.
https://www.npr.org/sections/live-up...t-u-s-protests
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:25 AM   #101
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Oh and this

Three New Zealand police officers charged over death of man in custody

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...man-in-custody
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:26 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
You say that Lincoln didn't believe that former slaves were a danger to the community and then tell us several dangers he feared the former slaves represented to the community. At least you seem to recognize that the Emancipation Proclamation wasn't an expression of Abraham Lincoln's belief in the equality of Europeans and Africans, his concern for the plight of the slave population or even a burning hatred of the institution of slavery but merely a cynical PR stunt he hoped would help the outcome of the war.
More Lost Cause garbage
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Old 14th June 2020, 04:35 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
“I can conceive of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal…" —Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1862

"We can never attain the ideal Union our fathers dreamed, with millions of an alien, inferior race among us, whose assimilation is neither possible nor desirable.” —Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1862
I don't know about the first, but the second quote is fake according to Wikiqoute.

Quote:
This is from a fictional speech by Lincoln which occurs in The Clansman : An Historical Romance of the Ku Klux Klan (1905) by Thomas Dixon, Jr.. On some sites this has been declared to be something Lincoln said "soon after signing" the Emancipation Proclamation, but without any date or other indications of to whom it was stated, and there are no actual historical records of Lincoln ever saying this
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Old 14th June 2020, 05:31 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
I don't know about the first, but the second quote is fake according to Wikiqoute.
Saw both quoted by someone on Twitter who I thought was a pretty reliable source, and was pretty sure I'd seen these quotes previously, so I passed them along. I suspect the guy who was quoting them thought them to be legitimate too. Perhaps one of the two quotes is.

Regardless, the quotes I'd posted previously (which aren't in doubt) had already made the case anyway.
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Old 14th June 2020, 05:33 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Steve Sailer mentioned some of the same unmentionables that I did in my last post.

"The single most relevant fact for understanding America right now is the one you are least supposed to mention: Blacks are vastly more homicidal than any other racial or ethnic group."

"History has been rewritten so that liberalism didn’t fail, it was never even tried. Therefore, we are being lectured to adopt the same policies today that managed to double the murder rate over the course of the 1960s and 1970s."
The drug war began in 1971 and the murder and incarceration rate skyrocketed in preceding decades. Also do you think it's a coincidence this "war" waged in downtrodden black communities only began after the end of the civil rights movement and passage of the civil rights acts (the last act being passed in 1968 and drug war beginning in 1971) when blacks gained legal equality? I think not. But what do I know. Let's just blame "liberalism" and the welfare state for the crime rate.


Originally Posted by Guss View Post
Tribalism is required for life to exist on this planet, humans would not be here without it.
Buzzwords like supremacy and racism have turned into hysterical cults of hate.
Tribalism may be human nature but supremacy is in fact a societal construct. And no it's not required for human existence. Cooperation is. Tribalism is maladaptive at this point in our evolutionary history.
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Old 14th June 2020, 06:48 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Saw both quoted by someone on Twitter who I thought was a pretty reliable source, and was pretty sure I'd seen these quotes previously, so I passed them along. I suspect the guy who was quoting them thought them to be legitimate too. Perhaps one of the two quotes is.

Regardless, the quotes I'd posted previously (which aren't in doubt) had already made the case anyway.
I'd love to know the person you consider to be a "reliable source". You know that people's views change and evolve over time right? Ghandi said far more racist things about Africans in his early years than Lincoln did.

Maybe you should read quotes from beyond 1958 or what real historians say instead of looking at quotes on twitter.

https://www.rbhayes.org/hayes/lincol...-racial-views/
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Old 14th June 2020, 07:31 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
I'd love to know the person you consider to be a "reliable source". You know that people's views change and evolve over time right? Ghandi said far more racist things about Africans in his early years than Lincoln did.

Maybe you should read quotes from beyond 1958 or what real historians say instead of looking at quotes on twitter.

https://www.rbhayes.org/hayes/lincol...-racial-views/
The views we know Lincoln had in 1858 aren't really any different than the views on these same issues that presidents decades later such as Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson had. So I'm not sure why anyone would find it hard to believe that Lincoln continued to have views along these lines until the time of his death.

For that matter, it seems that presidents continued to have views not too far off from that into the 1970s.

The person I saw quoting these was Jim Goad.
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Old 14th June 2020, 07:40 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
The drug war began in 1971 and the murder and incarceration rate skyrocketed in preceding decades. Also do you think it's a coincidence this "war" waged in downtrodden black communities only began after the end of the civil rights movement and passage of the civil rights acts (the last act being passed in 1968 and drug war beginning in 1971) when blacks gained legal equality? I think not. But what do I know. Let's just blame "liberalism" and the welfare state for the crime rate.
The murder rate doubled between 1964 and 1974, the point at which Liberals took over much of our criminal justice system. The black illegitimacy rate also soared during the same time period.

But I'm not real clear on why the "war on drugs' causes blacks to commit murder at 6 to 10 times the white rate. And as Larry Elder and Obama noted:

The number one problem domestically facing this country is the breakdown of the family, and President Obama said it, I didn’t. A kid raised without a dad is five times more likely to be poor and commit crimes; nine times more likely to drop out of school; and 20 times more likely to end up in jail[.”

Why aren't black children from married families as criminally prone as their illegitimate counterparts?


Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
Tribalism may be human nature but supremacy is in fact a societal construct. And no it's not required for human existence. Cooperation is. Tribalism is maladaptive at this point in our evolutionary history.
Nope. Yugoslavia was once one country, and now it has broken up into 7 different nations. They are far more placid and peaceful today than when they were united as one country in the 1990s. Ethno-nationalism promotes cooperation and good-feelings between people.
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Old 14th June 2020, 08:16 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
The views we know Lincoln had in 1858 aren't really any different than the views on these same issues that presidents decades later such as Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson had. So I'm not sure why anyone would find it hard to believe that Lincoln continued to have views along these lines until the time of his death.

For that matter, it seems that presidents continued to have views not too far off from that into the 1970s.

The person I saw quoting these was Jim Goad.
Historians have documented that his views did change over time. It is possible for a man in the 1860s to develop more progressive views on race than a man in the early 20th century. Lincoln certainly wasn't as racist as H P Lovecraft.

And Jim Goad isn't a historian.
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Old 14th June 2020, 06:38 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The murder rate doubled between 1964 and 1974, the point at which Liberals took over much of our criminal justice system. The black illegitimacy rate also soared during the same time period.

But I'm not real clear on why the "war on drugs' causes blacks to commit murder at 6 to 10 times the white rate. And as Larry Elder and Obama noted:

The number one problem domestically facing this country is the breakdown of the family, and President Obama said it, I didn’t. A kid raised without a dad is five times more likely to be poor and commit crimes; nine times more likely to drop out of school; and 20 times more likely to end up in jail[.”
So you're not willing to acknowledge the generational effects of systemic racism, oppression, concentrated/generational poverty, jim crow, ghettoization, social isolation and the drug war on crime and disorder but are willing to acknowledge the role of single parent households (which is a symptom more then the singular disease)?? Wut?


Quote:
Why aren't black children from married families as criminally prone as their illegitimate counterparts?
This isn't even worth responding to.




Quote:
Nope. Yugoslavia was once one country, and now it has broken up into 7 different nations. They are far more placid and peaceful today than when they were united as one country in the 1990s. Ethno-nationalism promotes cooperation and good-feelings between people.
I have zero knowledge of Yugoslavian history but the notion that ethno-nationalism promotes cooperation and good feelings is ridiculous. Genocide and ethnic cleansing can often times off shoot from ethno-nationalism.
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Old 14th June 2020, 09:56 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Historians have documented that his views did change over time. It is possible for a man in the 1860s to develop more progressive views on race than a man in the early 20th century. Lincoln certainly wasn't as racist as H P Lovecraft.

And Jim Goad isn't a historian.
Can we get some statues of ole H.P.?
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Old 15th June 2020, 05:39 AM   #112
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Wild street shootout in Washington, DC captured on home surveillance video. Nobody gets killed and you won't see blood. Best viewed in full screen...

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=ajWwR_1592184792

This is presumably a street gang shootout against rival(s). The action is so clear and almost surreal that you might think it's a movie. It seems that everyone has a gun and there are suddenly so many shooters.

This is organized crime going to battle against a competitor and mortal rival. It is fundamentally a turf war based on illegal drug sales. But the immediate battles are commonly about revenge for one thing or another... usually previous shootings.
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Old 15th June 2020, 12:08 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
“I can conceive of no greater calamity than the assimilation of the negro into our social and political life as our equal…" —Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1862
Do you have a source for this quote? I'll give you a head start - here is a transcript of an audience that Lincoln gave to "a committee of colored men" on that date. [dickinson.edu]

The second quote I won't bother repeating as it is a well-known fabrication by the Klan.

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Old 15th June 2020, 01:21 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Wild street shootout in Washington, DC captured on home surveillance video. Nobody gets killed and you won't see blood. Best viewed in full screen...

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=ajWwR_1592184792

This is presumably a street gang shootout against rival(s). The action is so clear and almost surreal that you might think it's a movie. It seems that everyone has a gun and there are suddenly so many shooters.

This is organized crime going to battle against a competitor and mortal rival. It is fundamentally a turf war based on illegal drug sales. But the immediate battles are commonly about revenge for one thing or another... usually previous shootings.
Yikes.
Pity those guys weren't all better shots.
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Old 20th June 2020, 09:40 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
So you're not willing to acknowledge the generational effects of systemic racism, oppression, concentrated/generational poverty, jim crow, ghettoization, social isolation and the drug war on crime and disorder but are willing to acknowledge the role of single parent households (which is a symptom more then the singular disease)?? Wut?
"Systemic racism", "oppression" and "generational poverty" are just fake concepts used by the Left to explain the conditions of blacks in America. These terms are used to divert blame from their own disastrous policies over the last 60 years. As Thomas Sowell wrote,

"Despite the grand myth that black economic progress began or accelerated with the passage of the civil rights laws and “war on poverty” programs of the 1960s, the cold fact is that the poverty rate among blacks fell from 87 percent in 1940 to 47 percent by 1960. This was before any of those programs began."

It seems like the era before the Civil Rights Movement and large-scale social welfare programs (The Great Society) were pretty good times for blacks.

Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
This isn't even worth responding to.
I asked, "Why aren't black children from married families as criminally prone as their illegitimate counterparts?"

Both families could have experienced a history of racism and discrimination, but for some reason blacks from married families have far lower crime rates than their illegitimate counterparts. Why is this? The black illegitimacy rate surged in the 1960s with the advent of social welfare programs. For some reason, according to the Left, the conditions of blacks today have nothing to do with anything that has happened in this country since the 1960s, even though these trend lines changed markedly once Liberals took over society.


Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
I have zero knowledge of Yugoslavian history but the notion that ethno-nationalism promotes cooperation and good feelings is ridiculous. Genocide and ethnic cleansing can often times off shoot from ethno-nationalism.
Ethnic cleansing can occur when multiple ethnic groups share the same country. Once each ethnic group has its own nation (ethno-nationalism) the ethnic cleansing largely stops.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Can we get some statues of ole H.P.?
Unfortunately the World of Fantasy awards nixed the HP Lovecraft statuettes back in 2015.

Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Historians have documented that his views did change over time. It is possible for a man in the 1860s to develop more progressive views on race than a man in the early 20th century. Lincoln certainly wasn't as racist as H P Lovecraft.
More progressive views on race = More inaccurate views on race.
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Old 21st June 2020, 03:03 PM   #116
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It takes a special kind of stupid to call a 47% poverty rate “pretty good times for blacks.”
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Old 22nd June 2020, 03:38 AM   #117
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Quote:
It seems like the era before the Civil Rights Movement and large-scale social welfare programs (The Great Society) were pretty good times for blacks.
And yet they still suffered from racism. How does that square with your claim that pulling yourself by your bootstraps will stop them being harassed by police etc.

Quote:
More progressive views on race = More inaccurate views on race.
Race realist are we?

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Old 22nd June 2020, 03:58 AM   #118
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Not everyone has a 'worldview'.
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Old 22nd June 2020, 08:16 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
"Systemic racism", "oppression" and "generational poverty" are just fake concepts used by the Left to explain the conditions of blacks in America.
You do realize that calling something fake doesn't magically make it true right?

Quote:
It seems like the era before the Civil Rights Movement and large-scale social welfare programs (The Great Society) were pretty good times for blacks.
No.


Quote:
I asked, "Why aren't black children from married families as criminally prone as their illegitimate counterparts?"
You're asking why are children in more stable homes less prone to dysfunction? The question answers itself. Remember i'm not the one that believes in a genetic explanation for crime.



Quote:
Ethnic cleansing can occur when multiple ethnic groups share the same country. Once each ethnic group has its own nation (ethno-nationalism) the ethnic cleansing largely stops.
You're advocating for a racial state. Not an ethno-state. Not to mention problem with an ethnostate (as I alluded to earlier) is you can divide people arbitrarily a million times over. In a theoretical racial state white vs black would give way to Aryan white vs swarthy non-aryan white and so on and so forth.
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Old 24th June 2020, 07:12 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
It takes a special kind of stupid to call a 47% poverty rate “pretty good times for blacks.”
The black poverty rate coming out of the Great Depression in 1940 was 87%. It fell to 47% by 1960. That is quite a bit of progress in a short period of time. As well the black crime rate was also falling and black income was soaring. Good times.

Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
And yet they still suffered from racism. How does that square with your claim that pulling yourself by your bootstraps will stop them being harassed by police etc
The black crime rate came down in the 1940s and 1950s. If a population commits fewer crimes they will be hassled by the police less often. In the 1950s we got a lower crime rate with a falling incarceration rate; a win-win.

Originally Posted by Jerrymander View Post
Race realist are we?
Progressive views on race = Systemic Racism.

Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
You do realize that calling something fake doesn't magically make it true right?
Saying that the condition of blacks in America today is due to "systemic racism" doesn't make it true either.

Originally Posted by Juniversal View Post
You're asking why are children in more stable homes less prone to dysfunction? The question answers itself. Remember i'm not the one that believes in a genetic explanation for crime.
Exactly. Black children from married families are far less criminally prone than their illegitimate counterparts, even though both may have experienced a history of racism and discrimination. So policy prescriptions that cause the illegitimacy to rise will have a negative impact on the black community. The black illegitimacy rate soared in the 1960s with the advent of large social welfare programs. As Thomas Sowell and others have pointed out the conditions of blacks today have nothing to do with a legacy of slavery and everything to do with a legacy of Liberalism.
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