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Tags Jay Inslee , protest incidents , Seattle incidents , Seattle issues

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Old 11th June 2020, 05:32 PM   #41
SuburbanTurkey
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
No footage of any armed checkpoints, no interviews with extorted shop owners.

In truth, I am pretty pessimistic about the long-term viability of this. With careful management of the group dynamics, they might be able to stretch it out for a few months, like the Occupy movement all over again. It might fizzle out before then, or run into issues like too much hard drugs, or sanitation issues.

But for now, the worst reportage from the right certainly appears to be mindless hyperbole, at best. Deliberate misinformation at worst.
Every day of the CHAZ is an embarrassment to the police. The police have vacated and vigorous protest activity continues, but there's less chaos and violence. Absent police committing brutality, it turns out these demonstrators are quite peaceful and orderly.
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Old 11th June 2020, 06:00 PM   #42
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I predict it will be the beginnings of a new Renaissance where the human spirit will be developed as never before imagined. A world where art, love, freedom and tolerance unite and judgements and disagreements vanish into thin air.
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Old 11th June 2020, 06:00 PM   #43
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I'm seeing two images of armed people at CHAZ - the same two images used over and over again:

https://twitter.com/HikerFool/status...226752/photo/2

https://twitter.com/ThePlqn/status/1...086272/photo/1

That's it. I don't know if those pics are genuine, if they are really from CHAZ.

This must be getting heavy coverage on Fox. Lots of heads are exploding on my social media feeds.

Here's a live feed from one of the barricades:

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Last edited by crescent; 11th June 2020 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 11th June 2020, 06:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
Seriously, I have friends going down there and reporting back that it's far calmer and more peaceful than the regular street festivals and block parties that take place every year.
But those would call the cops if things got out of hand. Who are these people going to call?
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Old 11th June 2020, 08:21 PM   #45
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My son shared an interesting link with me.

Twitter: In the days since abandoning their East Precinct, The Seattle Police Department has been engaged in a disinformation campaign aimed at delegitimizing protesters, fomenting violence, and repairing their murderous public image.

Here are the details...

You have to hit "show this thread". It's quite the list of false propaganda against the Seattle CHAZone.

Quote:
Seattle Police officers used public police scanner frequencies to make it appear as if 30 armed white-supremacists were moving towards the East Precinct,
That one is quite egregious so I'm going to seek to verify it.
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Old 11th June 2020, 08:58 PM   #46
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I wondering what the residents on those streets think. I'm not seeing much about what people think who live there. https://reason.com/2020/06/10/seattl...lice-precinct/
Quote:
A news crew from the local Fox affiliate was reportedly chased out of the zone by some demonstrators.

Tuesday saw more activity in the zone, with more barricades going up, and some businesses in the area opening up to offer water, bathroom facilities, and food to demonstrators.
This video link show some vandalism still taking place. https://gofile.io/d/IffAr1

I wonder what the "authorities" in CHAZ will do when someone calls 911 from inside the zone? The Seattle police claim they will still provide emergency services.

Ranb
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I wondering what the residents on those streets think. I'm not seeing much about what people think who live there. https://reason.com/2020/06/10/seattl...lice-precinct/


This video link show some vandalism still taking place. https://gofile.io/d/IffAr1

I wonder what the "authorities" in CHAZ will do when someone calls 911 from inside the zone? The Seattle police claim they will still provide emergency services.

Ranb
My son used to live right there, Pike and Summit. The protest is Pine next to the Summit cross street running several blocks to the east. Pike and Pine are parallel. I don't think anyone is blocked from getting in and out of their parking or parking garage. Mostly it's businesses that are closed because of COVID 19 anyway. All apartments are accessible from one street over and that includes the cross streets right up to where Pine is blocked off.

Look at the Google street view of Pine and Summit then look east to Cal Anderson Park. I've walked down Pike a gazillion times and it's mostly business fronts. I think Pine is the same.

It's only 4-5 very short blocks. Anyway, I don't think much is blocked off that was open.


As for Fox News getting chased out:

Their coverage has been full of lies pushed by the alt-right.

See here for a Tale of Two Cities:

Guardian: Seattle protesters take over city blocks to create police-free 'autonomous zone'
Quote:
Hundreds of protesters have taken over several blocks of Seattle and transformed it into the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, or “Chaz”, helping to amplify nationwide protests while offering a real-world example of what a community can look like without police.
The police left and it became a peaceful event with relatively little trouble.


But you'd never know that from dozens of other news media reports including Fox:

Fox News: Seattle law enforcement experts urge police to take back CHAZ before it's too late
Quote:
Officers effectively abandoned the area during violent clashes with demonstrators calling to defund the police.

Demonstrators have since set up occupancy in that section of downtown Seattle and have renamed it “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” (CHAZ)....

Photos of the area show protesters have remained peaceful –* pitching tents, painting, watching outdoor movies and holding gatherings with music and speeches –*
Notice photos.

Quote:
but police have also said they have received numerous complaints about armed guards surrounding the perimeter and asking residents who live in the area to show ID.

Police have also alluded to the potential extortion of local businesses and citizens....
Which apparently there is no evidence for.

Quote:
Michael Solan, president of the Seattle Police Officers Guild, told Fox News' Laura Ingraham on Wednesday that the occupy-style demonstrations have gone too far and "is absolutely unreasonable activism."

"We lost a precinct, now, what’s next? Are we going to lose another precinct? The city council has removed our ability to have less lethal ammunition for us to properly protect those facilities and protect ourselves,” Solan said.
Fox interviewee claims "an entire city government has handed over the city to domestic terrorists."

No one was shaking anyone down, obviously it is not a domestic terrorist group. That man needs to review what the definition of terrorism is.


Re the video, I'm not going to watch 55 minutes. Maybe you could point out some particular segments?

The beginning shows the "vandal" spray painting windows and the sidewalk and a couple of people telling him not to and to respect the businesses.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 11th June 2020 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:17 PM   #48
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Let's see what the Seattle media are saying about this:
Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...rsday-june-11/

Seattle Post-Intelligencer: https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenew...e-15330353.php

Robinson Media publications (Capitol Hill Times, Ballard News-Tribune, West Seattle Herald): https://www.westsideseattle.com/high...k-lives-matter

Seattle Weekly: https://www.seattleweekly.com/

The Stranger: https://www.thestranger.com/

(Seattle Daily Journal of Commerce: https://www.djc.com/)

Capitol Hill Seattle Blog: https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 11th June 2020 at 10:29 PM.
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:24 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I wondering what the residents on those streets think. I'm not seeing much about what people think who live there. https://reason.com/2020/06/10/seattl...lice-precinct/


This video link show some vandalism still taking place. https://gofile.io/d/IffAr1

I wonder what the "authorities" in CHAZ will do when someone calls 911 from inside the zone? The Seattle police claim they will still provide emergency services.

Ranb
I share your skepticism and think people here are looking at this through rose colored glasses. But I alos think the way the right is portraying this as some kind of Paris Commune is ridiculous,
I think the strategy is just let the prorestors have their fun, and evewntually they will get tried and go home.
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:27 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Seattle has apparently ceded control of part of the city, now called the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) to the protestors.

The NY Times was rapturous:



City Journal was notably less glowing in their coverage:



Well, nature abhors a vacuum.

It's all kind of amusing to watch from afar, but let's remember that Seattle has effectively ceded control over thousands of peoples' lives and property to the mob. And I have the slightest bit of doubt that Raz Simone will prove more accountable to the people than the police have been.
No worse then the right wingers taking ovre federal land in Oregon and Nevada. You seem to have no problem with that.
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:37 PM   #51
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I think the Seattle Strategy is just to sit back and let the thing collapse of it's own weight whiich it will.
Does anybody here think this kind of thing is sustainable long term?
A lot of wishful thinking, the right wing nonsense about it nonwithstanding.
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:37 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
No worse then the right wingers taking ovre federal land in Oregon and Nevada. You seem to have no problem with that.
Touché
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:40 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I share your skepticism and think people here are looking at this through rose colored glasses. But I alos think the way the right is portraying this as some kind of Paris Commune is ridiculous,
I think the strategy is just let the prorestors have their fun, and evewntually they will get tried and go home.
While you're sharing his skepticism, don't forget to think critically about the rather extensive effort of the alt-right to provide their alternative facts.

You know you want to think critically here.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 11th June 2020 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 11th June 2020, 10:57 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
Let's see what the Seattle media are saying about this:
Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...rsday-june-11/
["Seattle-area protest updates: No police reports filed about use of weapons to extort Capitol Hill businesses, Best says"]

Seattle Post-Intelligencer: https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenew...e-15330353.php
["In the new Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, protesters come together to give aid and fight for change"]

Robinson Media publications (Capitol Hill Times, Ballard News-Tribune, West Seattle Herald): https://www.westsideseattle.com/high...k-lives-matter
["Marchers fill the streets of White Center for Black Lives Matter" - note the part of Seattle being discussed is nowhere near West Seattle.]

Seattle Weekly: https://www.seattleweekly.com/
[I have no idea which story you meant to link to, it's not apparent.]

The Stranger: https://www.thestranger.com/
["Residents of CHAZ Respond to the President"]

(Seattle Daily Journal of Commerce: https://www.djc.com/)
[No clue what you were looking for here either.]

Capitol Hill Seattle Blog: https://www.capitolhillseattle.com/
["Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone updates: Friday actions for ‘a new generation’ and a general strike, and yes, CHAZ does, indeed, attract the worst kind of people (Tim Eyman)" - Eyman is a scumbag living off of continual campaigning which now is a ludicrous run against Inslee for governor. I can't believe anyone donates to anything this man is campaigning in, he's been busted stealing campaign funds and he pays himself an outrageous salary.]
Sigh. My comments are highlighted, headlines in quotes.


Aaaannnnd the police chief walks back her claim anyone was extorting money from anyone. She does want the station back and is drumming up reasons why she plans to move back in. In the meantime the crowds tonight are bigger.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 11th June 2020, 11:03 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I have no idea which story you meant to link to, it's not apparent.

No clue what you were looking for here either.
I was linking to local media, not to specific stories. So as to make it easier for those with functioning brain cells to make up their own mind. Obviously, some of the media haven't actually covered the issue (either because they're weekly publications and haven't had time yet or because they're focused entirely on commercial matters, for instance)

Last edited by Shadowdweller; 11th June 2020 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11th June 2020, 11:15 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I was linking to local media, not to specific stories. So as to make it easier for those with functioning brain cells to make up their own mind. Obviously, some of the media haven't actually covered the issue (either because they're weekly publications and haven't had time yet or because they're focused entirely on commercial matters, for instance)
You think we can't do a Google search?

Maybe you meant well but that wasn't helpful. I wouldn't have checked the links if this wasn't personal for me since I fell for the morning news reports and they were wrong.

If you wanted to show both sides then show what you are linking to. The facts are becoming very clear, there's a serious alt-right attempt to spread disinformation.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 11th June 2020 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 11th June 2020, 11:22 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You think we can't do a Google search?

Maybe you meant well but that wasn't helpful. I wouldn't have checked the links if this wasn't personal for me since I fell for the morning news reports and they were wrong.
I think the amount of BS one has to wade through to get to legitimate local opinion is significant given the usual alt-right fabrication. I'm sorry if you found my efforts unhelpful.
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Old 11th June 2020, 11:27 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I think the amount of BS one has to wade through to get to legitimate local opinion is significant given the usual alt-right fabrication. I'm sorry if you found my efforts unhelpful.
Your intention sounds like it was noble. But the result was less than helpful.

What good is a slew of links that require just as much wading through as a Google search?
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 12th June 2020, 12:24 AM   #59
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should be a Libertarians' paradise.

For the Powers That Be, the scariest thing that could happen is for this not to end in a Lord of the Flies scenario.
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Old 12th June 2020, 02:54 AM   #60
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Seems that CHAZ is a misnomer. There is no real consensus of the people there to turn this area into an "autonomous zone". There has been no efforts to set up a distinct governing authority.

The name "CHOP" has been suggested. Capitol Hill Occupancy Protest, which seems more accurate. This isn't about setting up an anarchist utopia. It's a peaceful, longer term protest. The primary goal is the continued protest against police brutality and the movement towards defunding the Seattle PD, not to set up some long-term intentional community.

https://twitter.com/iwriteok/status/1271188269527707660
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Old 12th June 2020, 05:31 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Seems that CHAZ is a misnomer. There is no real consensus of the people there to turn this area into an "autonomous zone". There has been no efforts to set up a distinct governing authority.

The name "CHOP" has been suggested. Capitol Hill Occupancy Protest, which seems more accurate. This isn't about setting up an anarchist utopia. It's a peaceful, longer term protest. The primary goal is the continued protest against police brutality and the movement towards defunding the Seattle PD, not to set up some long-term intentional community.

https://twitter.com/iwriteok/status/1271188269527707660
Quote:
“The more we encourage and focus on the race thing, the greater our attention is not focusing on the fact that this is class warfare,” said a 28-year-old protester and self-described anarchist who identified himself only by his first name, Fredrix.
Looks like some people don't agree with you and have loftier goals than trying to rectify "the race thing".
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Old 12th June 2020, 05:43 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Looks like some people don't agree with you and have loftier goals than trying to rectify "the race thing".
Sounds like a white guy.
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Old 12th June 2020, 10:08 AM   #63
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Yeah, there are several people trying to turn it into their own pet protest, including Kshama Sawant of the City Council. Lots of people trying to refocus it, but so far plenty more trying to keep it to the original BLM/police brutality.

I'd be there with them, but I'm high risk and old and can't move fast, so I'm more of a liability when something goes wrong. There are more reports this morning that a car tried to drive into the crowd around the West precinct station. This one appears to be just a self-absorbed rich person who couldn't get to his view condo fast enough to suit him, rather than a cop's brother with a gun.

Here's an opinion piece from someone who went down to see for himself. Interestingly, this is on a pretty conservative-leaning site. Debunking Myths of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone https://mynorthwest.com/1937349/opin...tonomous-zone/

Last edited by deadrose; 12th June 2020 at 10:16 AM. Reason: added link to news story
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Old 12th June 2020, 11:57 AM   #64
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Faceook link - probably still visible to those without FB accounts:

Dear Friends and Family not in Seattle (written i response to a Faux news post)

Quote:
For friends and family not in Seattle. This story (the Fox news article) is a complete and total fabrication. There just is no other way to explain it. The image is from Minneapolis for starters (do a reverse image search on Google).

Protesters in CHAZ (Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone) are watching documentaries, having discussions about race, eating food, listening to the Marshall Law band (seriously, name of the band). There is free food, free water, free coffee, and a lot of pop art everywhere.

The barricades were put in place on Monday due to a very real threat of extreme right-wing agitators (Proud Boys) who gathered at Pioneer Square, 30 to 50 strong, and heavily armed around 11:30, to come to Cal Anderson Park. At 11:35 PM with helicopters from King County Sheriff buzzing overhead, mostly unarmed people, supported by legal gun owners, and a team of EMTS, doctors, and nurses at the rear of the line waited. A small group showed up at about 12:05 PM and immediately turned around when they realized that this was not an unarmed group that would run at the sight of an assault rifle.

The barricades are there, sadly and ironically, to keep those who want to actually see a scene like this, in Capitol Hill, and to protect the East Precinct Police Station. I can't stress enough, I have hard in loud and clear voices, that the loose organization of leaders will not let that building be touched. Everyone knows that is exactly what the far-right wants.
Quote:
The CHAZ is six blocks, while SPD is now claiming that the entire 83.7 square miles of the city of Seattle can now only respond to "priority calls." This is pretty much a high-grade BS. The East Precinct HQ is not a motor pool station (e.g not a huge lot for police cars and equipment to go in and out of) and the areas blocked off are not arterials in that area.

No one has any actual proof that business owners have been asked for money, nor does anyone have any proof that anyone is asking for IDs at "checkpoints." On the contrary, every objective report has said the border is porous, and those that cause problems are asked to leave.
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Old 12th June 2020, 12:48 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Shadowdweller View Post
I was linking to local media, not to specific stories. So as to make it easier for those with functioning brain cells to make up their own mind. Obviously, some of the media haven't actually covered the issue (either because they're weekly publications and haven't had time yet or because they're focused entirely on commercial matters, for instance)
I appreciated the links. Thank you!
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Old 12th June 2020, 12:59 PM   #66
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Amazing how police departments, sewage outlets such as Fox News, and of course the Trump administration are willing to fabricate complete lies to incite fear and anger. Just make up stuff out of whole cloth and continue to spew it even after the truth becomes known. Because what advances your political agenda is the only goal, no matter who the lies hurt or how much they damage the country.

I am very concerned that Trump will attempt to order the National Guard or even active military into the CHAZ simply to claim that he rescued law abiding citizens from days of non-existent looting, rape, murder, and free snacks. Okay, maybe not from free snacks, although the idea of free food is awfully socialistic and goes against the core principles of America that the poor deserve to go hungry. My only hope is that his aides can convince him that the “optics” would look very bad for him.
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Old 12th June 2020, 03:44 PM   #67
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Old 12th June 2020, 04:39 PM   #68
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Another opinion from mynorthwest.com; https://mynorthwest.com/1942768/chaz...unsustainable/
Quote:
But we also saw how quickly the mood could change. When a business owner drove past the barricade, she was immediately swarmed by a group of men who feared she wanted to hurt the protesters.

We also saw a scuffle erupt when a woman began speaking to the crowd and one of the leaders thought she was going to co-opt their message. He grabbed the bullhorn, trying to wrestle it away before they were separated.

It’s not clear who’s in charge at CHAZ but the “Collective Black Voices” has released this list of demands and it’s outrageous.

The CHAZ is unsustainable and to resolve this is going to require leadership. I believe that starts with Mayor Durkan who told CNN’S Chris Cuomo that President Trump doesn’t need to send in the troops to clear the streets. She says this could be the “summer of love” in Seattle. If it lasts that long, we’re in serious trouble.
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Old 12th June 2020, 09:52 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
No worse then the right wingers taking ovre federal land in Oregon and Nevada. You seem to have no problem with that.
I don't think anybody has the right to set themselves up as independent countries or whatever those clowns were trying to do, so you're wrong, I do have a problem with it. But I'm going to assume that the inhabitants of the area they claimed were mostly livestock, not human beings, which is a pretty significant difference in terms of impact.
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Old 12th June 2020, 10:25 PM   #70
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Old 12th June 2020, 10:28 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
Amazing how police departments, sewage outlets such as Fox News, and of course the Trump administration are willing to fabricate complete lies to incite fear and anger. Just make up stuff out of whole cloth and continue to spew it even after the truth becomes known. Because what advances your political agenda is the only goal, no matter who the lies hurt or how much they damage the country.

I am very concerned that Trump will attempt to order the National Guard or even active military into the CHAZ simply to claim that he rescued law abiding citizens from days of non-existent looting, rape, murder, and free snacks. Okay, maybe not from free snacks, although the idea of free food is awfully socialistic and goes against the core principles of America that the poor deserve to go hungry. My only hope is that his aides can convince him that the “optics” would look very bad for him.
He can't, that nonsense about "or I will" is just his fantasy and playing to himself and his base.
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Old 12th June 2020, 10:46 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
Another opinion from mynorthwest.com; https://mynorthwest.com/1942768/chaz...unsustainable/
That sounds about right. But maybe deadrose has more insight.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

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Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 12th June 2020, 10:50 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Faceook link - probably still visible to those without FB accounts:

Dear Friends and Family not in Seattle (written i response to a Faux news post)
I do think the chief is exaggerating a bit about how long responses are with the precinct idle. She clearly exaggerated about the shakedowns etc and had to walk that back. Note she never said where the false anecdotes originated and the news media never asked.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

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Old 13th June 2020, 08:25 AM   #74
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Fox literally photo shopping in an armed guy into pictures of the Capital hill autonomous zone.

https://twitter.com/HannahReloaded/s...17431305068551
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Old 13th June 2020, 08:53 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I don't think anybody has the right to set themselves up as independent countries or whatever those clowns were trying to do, so you're wrong, I do have a problem with it. But I'm going to assume that the inhabitants of the area they claimed were mostly livestock, not human beings, which is a pretty significant difference in terms of impact.
CHAZ is not trying to set up an independent country, it seems more like just a permanent protest, like the occupy movement. CHAZ has not entered the police precinct and the only damage to is is graffiti.

The Bundy's didn't try to set up a separate nation either. Unlike Chaz, the Bundys did occupy government buildings. The Bundys were much, much more heavily armed than CHAZ. During the Bundy Bunkerville incident, my LE coworkers had to sent their families into hiding due to death threats, I see no analogue with CHAZ.

It is interesting to look this up on twitter - just put "Chaz Seattle" into the search window. I have never seen such a disconnect between what people think is happening compared to what actually is happening (as verified through live-feed webcams, on-site reporting, and such).

Vehicle barriers are set up - but people are free to come and go, no papers are being checked. Easily verifiable through live-feeds.

Businesses are open. Verifiable through reporting.

Businesses have not been shaken down for protection money. The city government has retracted that accusation.

There is no warlord in charge. Nobody seems to be in charge, much like it was with the occupy movement.

They have not declared themselves to be a separate nation. I don't know where that came from. "Autonomous" means many things and comes in degrees, it is not a synonym for "independent".


Lots and lots of idiots on social media are wanting to destroy this, baying for blood. Yellow journalism at its worst.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:07 AM   #76
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While I support this, and especially the focus on the protest being more of a power/class battle, what's the endgame here? The Mayor and police are basically saying let the kids play till they run out of money, then things go back to normal, right? No body count and all that.

Also, might be interesting if people later try to sue the city for refusal to provide services within the AZ. I mean, police et al still have obligations, yes?
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:15 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
While I support this, and especially the focus on the protest being more of a power/class battle, what's the endgame here? The Mayor and police are basically saying let the kids play till they run out of money, then things go back to normal, right? No body count and all that.

Also, might be interesting if people later try to sue the city for refusal to provide services within the AZ. I mean, police et al still have obligations, yes?
I suggest this is a bit of over reacting. It's a couple of blocks! The point is the protest.

Trump has described it as "a large part of Seattle".
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 13th June 2020 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:29 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
CHAZ is not trying to set up an independent country, it seems more like just a permanent protest, like the occupy movement. CHAZ has not entered the police precinct and the only damage to is is graffiti.

The Bundy's didn't try to set up a separate nation either. Unlike Chaz, the Bundys did occupy government buildings. The Bundys were much, much more heavily armed than CHAZ. During the Bundy Bunkerville incident, my LE coworkers had to sent their families into hiding due to death threats, I see no analogue with CHAZ.

It is interesting to look this up on twitter - just put "Chaz Seattle" into the search window. I have never seen such a disconnect between what people think is happening compared to what actually is happening (as verified through live-feed webcams, on-site reporting, and such).

Vehicle barriers are set up - but people are free to come and go, no papers are being checked. Easily verifiable through live-feeds.

Businesses are open. Verifiable through reporting.

Businesses have not been shaken down for protection money. The city government has retracted that accusation.

There is no warlord in charge. Nobody seems to be in charge, much like it was with the occupy movement.

They have not declared themselves to be a separate nation. I don't know where that came from. "Autonomous" means many things and comes in degrees, it is not a synonym for "independent".


Lots and lots of idiots on social media are wanting to destroy this, baying for blood. Yellow journalism at its worst.
Republicans and the right wing (forgive me for repeating myself) need to create scary demons to frighten voters into supporting them. So they are constantly searching for some event or position that can be fictionalized appropriately. “Defund the police” is one of these - a catchphrase that can be twisted and fraudulently sold to many in the middle class as leaving them exposed to lawlessness.

CHAZ is another example of the reality failing to be frightening so it must be twisted and fictionalized to make it so. Ultimately the reality must be morphed to emerge as the message “Vote for Democrats and they will turn your neighborhood into Somalia.”

Sure, to do so takes an enormous amount of pure fabrication. Lies. Misleading, mislabeled, or completely fake photos. Untrue rumors blithely presented in headlines as accurate. But Fox News, the right wing blog sphere, the Republican leadership, etc. are a large and interlocking entity and will try their hardest to make it so. And it works. Just look at the statements presented as facts by the City Journal as quoted in the OP; I notice that similar distortions/lies by Fox News still remain up as banner headlines on the web no matter that they have been shown to be untrue since they were first posted. These false impressions certainly will become established as truths in the minds of many in the wider population.

Last edited by Giordano; 13th June 2020 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:46 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Fox literally photo shopping in an armed guy into pictures of the Capital hill autonomous zone.

https://twitter.com/HannahReloaded/s...17431305068551
Here's a more detailed account of all the BS Fox has been 'reporting'.

Seattle Times: Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
Quote:
Fox’s site had no disclaimers revealing the photos had been manipulated. The network removed the images after inquiries from The Seattle Times.

In addition, Fox’s site for a time on Friday ran a frightening image of a burning city, above a package of stories about Seattle’s protests, headlined “CRAZY TOWN.” The photo actually showed a scene from St. Paul, Minnesota, on May 30. That image also was later removed. ...

The network’s misleading and faked images were published as the Capitol Hill zone — quickly labeled CHAZ — became a political flashpoint for conservatives nationally and a target of tweets by President Donald Trump, who has branded the demonstrators “domestic terrorists” and threatened federal action unless local officials “take back” the area.

National news outlets on Friday also continued to cite a now-withdrawn comment by a Seattle police commander suggesting protesters were extorting payments from businesses within CHAZ. Seattle police Chief Carmen Best walked back that statement on Thursday, saying the comment was based on rumor and social media.
Ran all day: damage done. But gee, they didn't mean to and they took the images down.


Fox: Seattle 'autonomous zone' has armed guards, local businesses being threatened with extortion, police say
Quote:
Editor’s Note: A FoxNews.com home page photo collage which originally accompanied this story included multiple scenes from Seattle’s “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” and of wreckage following recent riots. The collage did not clearly delineate between these images, and has since been replaced. In addition, a recent slideshow depicting scenes from Seattle mistakenly included a picture from Minneapolis. Fox News regrets these errors.
What a ******* lie.

And they kept the dishonest headline, continuing to repeat this story after it was discredited by the police chief herself.
Quote:
Seattle police say they have received reports of armed guards and potential extortion in a self-declared autonomous zone that spans several blocks and includes a now-closed precinct.

“We’ve heard, anecdotally, reports of citizens and businesses being asked to pay a fee to operate within this area. This is the crime of extortion. If anyone has been subjected to this, we need them to call 911,” Assistant Chief of Police Deanna Nollette said on Wednesday.
No one called 911, no one reported any of this crap despite the chief asking people to please report such incidents.

Per Police Chief Best, "we have received no reports".

So Fox took down propaganda photos but left up the propaganda report.

Also they have exaggerated the size of the zone:
Quote:
Protesters calling to defund the police and make sweeping reforms to law enforcement tactics have declared a six-block region -- spanning 13th Avenue past 11th Avenue, near Cal Anderson Park, and from East Olive Street to East Pike Street -- the “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” (CHAZ).
11th, 12th, 13th... Hey Fox, that is 3 blocks and look at a map, they are short blocks.


The dishonesty is disgusting.
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Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
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Old 13th June 2020, 09:46 AM   #80
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Make no mistake: CHAZ is a deadly threat to the story that the Republicans need to sell to voters. A peaceful, integrated society filled with liberal, left wing, and BLM protesters operating fairly well in the absence of police denies the core upon which the Republicans seek to build their votes. It must be portrayed as a nightmare. Or made into one by a violent provocation by the police or military,

BTW: I am not suggesting CHAZ is a utopia or sustainable. I view it as a demonstration project that provides a glimpse of some alternatives to our current society’s views of police in the role of vicious attack dogs required to protect us... from ourselves.
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