ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 24th June 2020, 06:58 AM   #121
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 21,957
Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Take a game played on this set seriously : https://www.chesshouse.com/collectio...mmer-chess-set

You can't, even if you somehow manage to avoid Fast Times at Ridgemont High or Point Break references.
A few years back the Detroit Institute of Arts hosted an exhibition of chess sets. There was nothing from the Franklin Mint in it, but some of them were quite cool. There was a Salvador Dali set, actually designed by Dali. Needless to say, though, they were more ornamental than playable.

My favorite was the communist chess set. It was made in Russia in the early days of the Soviet Union. The pieces were red versus white. In the white pieces, the pawns were wrapped up in chains, but in the red pieces, the chains were broken.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:06 AM   #122
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 56,020
Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It's interesting that the most powerful piece is the queen and it protects the much weaker king. If it were the other way around perhaps we could have a thread about chess being a tool of the patriarchy.

Anyway it made me curious enough to go look it up and it seems the piece was originally a "vizier", changed its identity to a queen toward the end of the 10th century and various rule changes in the next several hundred years left it the most powerful piece on the board. So there you go. Even threads like this can result in learning something.
Another chess funfact: a notable chess nerd was none other than Tamerlane, yes, that Tamerlane. Barbarous conquests? Yep. Heaps of severed heads in his wake? Yep. Chess fanatic who invented new pieces and variant boards? Yep.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:10 AM   #123
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 21,957
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Another chess funfact: a notable chess nerd was none other than Tamerlane, yes, that Tamerlane. Barbarous conquests? Yep. Heaps of severed heads in his wake? Yep. Chess fanatic who invented new pieces and variant boards? Yep.
Here's a post I made to another forum some years back:

Quote:
After many, many, efforts, and taking back a LOT of moves for many games, I finally beat the computer at Tamerlane's Chess.

Tamerlane's Chess is so named because it was played at the court of its namesake so many centuries ago. It is played on a 10 x 11 board, plus 2 special squares. Each player starts the game with 28 pieces. It is known from a couple of different primary sources, with very slightly different rules.

At any rate, it's weird. Very weird. There are several pieces that can move a minimum number of spaces. The bishops are like bishops, except you have to move 2 squares, minimum, and they both start out on the same color, which makes them not at all like bishops. The most difficult piece for me is the giraffe, which moves one square diagonally, then at least three squares orthogonally. In the beginning of the game, they are practically worthless, but they are almost as powerful as rooks at the end. As with most ancient variants, there is no highly mobile queen piece.

The game I finally won took 118 moves.

If this is the sort of variant that interests you, I highly recommend a program called zillions of games. It's a generic game engine that plays lots and lots of board games, including chess variants. If you download the free version of the game, you can play Chess, Xiangqi, Korean Chess, Thai Chess, Burmese Chess, Ultima, a small variation of Shogi, and Fairy Chess, plus several other games like Nine Man's Morris and one version of Hnefatafl. If you pay 25 bucks to unlock the special features, you can play several more variants, including full Shogi, plus you gain access to downloadable files where you can play literally hundreds of Chess variants, including every historically significant variant I've ever heard of. That's how I played Tamerlane's Chess.

It plays a pretty darned mean game. Anyway, google it if you're interested. It's a great program for people who like Chess Variants.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:15 AM   #124
Meadmaker
Penultimate Amazing
 
Meadmaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 21,957
That game that I won was with a fortuitous hostage move. The computer put my king in check. That allowed me to swap the king with a pawn on the other side of the board. The king was then able to protect the Pawn of Kings as it advanced to the back rank and promote to a Prince. That allowed me to sacrifice the king, because the prince could then become a new king, and the process left me up by a giraffe, and I won the game.

Does this sound like a game of Chess described by Tragic Monkey? Yeah. It's like that.
Meadmaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:16 AM   #125
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 27,313
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Okay, fair enough. I will make sure I get your approval before starting a thread in future.
You don't need my approval to post what you like.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Or otherwise, you might consider not posting in a thread you think so stupid.
I also don't need your approval to post in any thread I like.

Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Just a thought.
Well, here's another thought.

To me this thread looks like recreational outrage. It's like leafing through the Daily Mail and fulminating at the headlines, "Look! Our lefty politicians are now funding foreign pan-pipers instead of worthy causes! This is an outrage! You couldn't make it! This feeds right into my stereotype that all the left really cares about are fringe issues! Let me make a post about it so I can get even more outraged when people on International So-Called Skeptics either fail to be as recreationally outraged as me at this Important Issue or else take up the daft lefty position that if you think about it kind of excuses police brutality and the KKK!"
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:21 AM   #126
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,078
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Indeed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-...ntage_in_chess

It's not just a belief, but a proven fact that white has an advantage.



On average white wins slightly more than 50% of the time.
Right, confirming the obvious conclusion that an advantage in development is, in fact, an advantage.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:27 AM   #127
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 56,020
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
That game that I won was with a fortuitous hostage move. The computer put my king in check. That allowed me to swap the king with a pawn on the other side of the board. The king was then able to protect the Pawn of Kings as it advanced to the back rank and promote to a Prince. That allowed me to sacrifice the king, because the prince could then become a new king, and the process left me up by a giraffe, and I won the game.

Does this sound like a game of Chess described by Tragic Monkey? Yeah. It's like that.
Now I'm wondering what the weirdest chess variant yet devised is.

"By placing my wizard's tower in mega-check, you activated my star crystal option. I use it to summon a necrodragon onto the nearest earth-element square, which since it's occupied by a dawn priestess gives me the sunshine buff to three pieces of my choice. I choose the necrodragon itself, the owlface executioner, and trade in the third buff to convert my home square to an ocean tile, which promotes my queen to a pirate queen. Now it's your turn."

"...Community Chest: I won ten dollars in a beauty contest."
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:37 AM   #128
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
 
Gord_in_Toronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 19,311
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
[Looks at OP.]
Look at Mathew looking at the OP. Wander off muttering under breath.
__________________
"Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick
Gord_in_Toronto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:42 AM   #129
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,958
Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
Hmmn. Most high-level players believe black has the advantage. Going first lets you get a pawn out quickly, but black is better able to avoid pawn islands.
This just isn't accurate.

Edit: I see this has been covered.
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

Last edited by 3point14; 24th June 2020 at 08:14 AM.
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 07:45 AM   #130
sir drinks-a-lot
Illuminator
 
sir drinks-a-lot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 4,459
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Now I'm wondering what the weirdest chess variant yet devised is.
Turing Chess is a good one.
__________________
I don't like that man. I must get to know him better. --Abraham Lincoln
sir drinks-a-lot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 08:17 AM   #131
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,958
In order to cut through the whole who goes first thing, I propose that both players move at the same time. Both players write down their move on folded paper and pass across. Then move both pieces. If any pieces land on any square simultaneously, both are removed from the board.
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 08:20 AM   #132
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6,560
Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
Hmmn. Most high-level players believe black has the advantage. Going first lets you get a pawn out quickly, but black is better able to avoid pawn islands.
Quote:
In*chess, there is a general consensus among players and*theorists*that the player who makes the first move (White) has an inherent advantage. Since 1851, compiled*statisticssupport this view; White consistently*winsslightly more often than*Black, usually scoring between 52 and 56*percent. White's*winning percentage*is about the same for*tournamentgames between humans and games between*computers; however, White's advantage is less significant in*blitz*games and games between novices.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firs...ntage_in_chess
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 08:26 AM   #133
Lukraak_Sisser
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,731
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Now I'm wondering what the weirdest chess variant yet devised is.

"By placing my wizard's tower in mega-check, you activated my star crystal option. I use it to summon a necrodragon onto the nearest earth-element square, which since it's occupied by a dawn priestess gives me the sunshine buff to three pieces of my choice. I choose the necrodragon itself, the owlface executioner, and trade in the third buff to convert my home square to an ocean tile, which promotes my queen to a pirate queen. Now it's your turn."

"...Community Chest: I won ten dollars in a beauty contest."
That sounds like Calvinball transported to a chess board
Lukraak_Sisser is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 08:33 AM   #134
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 56,020
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
In order to cut through the whole who goes first thing, I propose that both players move at the same time. Both players write down their move on folded paper and pass across. Then move both pieces. If any pieces land on any square simultaneously, both are removed from the board.
Better yet, players flip a coin before each move, and whoever wins gets to make the move. So frequently a player would get more than one move in a row while the other gets none! That would add a new element into chess, and do away with all that boring "if they move here, I'll move here, then they'll move there" crap.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 08:40 AM   #135
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,429
This really is a great example of the problems caused by the absence of skepticism (and good journalism) and the generation of right-wing outrage.

Astute observers will note that the article in the OP does not seek commentary from the party alleged to have made the egregious comment, nor does it cite a second source for confirmation on the story. This is a huge red flag, and brings up a few possible explanations for why ABC would ask if Chess is racist. Three that spring to my mind immediately are:

A. Adams is making up the phone call, or he was on the receiving end of a prank where someone was posing as an ABC producer.
B. A producer for ABC found the idea to be funny and wanted comment for a segment that was intended to be humorous.
C. A producer for ABC was researching a puff piece that they would later drop once they found it to be without substance.

But did ABC even ask if Chess is racist? That's not a given. If you go back to what Adams said in his tweets, he's not even attempting to quote ABC. Rather, he is giving an assessment of how he perceived the other side of the conversation. Even if ABC asked the question, it certainly does not mean that they are "taking a view" on the issue, one way or the other.

And the fish gets bigger and bigger with every poor conveyance of what actually occurred.
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 08:41 AM   #136
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,496
Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
A few years back the Detroit Institute of Arts hosted an exhibition of chess sets. There was nothing from the Franklin Mint in it, but some of them were quite cool. There was a Salvador Dali set, actually designed by Dali. Needless to say, though, they were more ornamental than playable.

My favorite was the communist chess set. It was made in Russia in the early days of the Soviet Union. The pieces were red versus white. In the white pieces, the pawns were wrapped up in chains, but in the red pieces, the chains were broken.
I'm reminded of a political cartoon from long ago, when South Africa was still under apartheid and there was considerable unrest. The cartoon had the caption "South African Chess", and showed a normal white chess set facing black pawns extending into infinity.

Last edited by CORed; 24th June 2020 at 08:42 AM.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 09:11 AM   #137
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,920
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Are you familiar with Australia's ABC and its charter?

https://me.abcfriendsvic.org.au/wp-c...e__charter.pdf



Hmmm, nothing there about frivolous daytime jocks.
Well, I've compiled a list of some of the things that this particular DJ has spoken about on his show before. If you genuinely think they're in breach of ABC's charter, I suggest you send those to them and explain why he should be fired.

Incidentally, the BBC is also publicly funded and also has a charter. This is it's "mission", which it has to follow by law, as per the Charter. I also see nothing in there about frivolous daytime jocks. I suppose that must mean that Dev & Alice (with a few others) playing Innuendo Bingo on Scott's show is super serious and non-frivolous:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 09:20 AM   #138
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,920
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
To me this thread looks like recreational outrage. It's like leafing through the Daily Mail and fulminating at the headlines, "Look! Our lefty politicians are now funding foreign pan-pipers instead of worthy causes! This is an outrage! You couldn't make it! This feeds right into my stereotype that all the left really cares about are fringe issues! Let me make a post about it so I can get even more outraged when people on International So-Called Skeptics either fail to be as recreationally outraged as me at this Important Issue or else take up the daft lefty position that if you think about it kind of excuses police brutality and the KKK!"
I know this is a brief derail, but the Mail had two corkers today. In a review of Michaela Coel's new series the reviewer said that it was great because it made you realise that black people are just like normal people, and Norman Tebbit authored an article in which he described Hitler as left-wing. WRT to the latter, I saw one wag comment that it was brave of him to admit he was further to the right than Hitler was.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 09:24 AM   #139
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,920
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
This really is a great example of the problems caused by the absence of skepticism (and good journalism) and the generation of right-wing outrage.

Astute observers will note that the article in the OP does not seek commentary from the party alleged to have made the egregious comment, nor does it cite a second source for confirmation on the story. This is a huge red flag, and brings up a few possible explanations for why ABC would ask if Chess is racist. Three that spring to my mind immediately are:

A. Adams is making up the phone call, or he was on the receiving end of a prank where someone was posing as an ABC producer.
B. A producer for ABC found the idea to be funny and wanted comment for a segment that was intended to be humorous.
C. A producer for ABC was researching a puff piece that they would later drop once they found it to be without substance.

But did ABC even ask if Chess is racist? That's not a given. If you go back to what Adams said in his tweets, he's not even attempting to quote ABC. Rather, he is giving an assessment of how he perceived the other side of the conversation. Even if ABC asked the question, it certainly does not mean that they are "taking a view" on the issue, one way or the other.

And the fish gets bigger and bigger with every poor conveyance of what actually occurred.
Yes, this is really what OP should have done before starting the thread. Instead he seems to have just uncritically accepted everything Adams said without questioning whether or not it was true or an accurate description of what actually happened. And then considered it noteworthy enough to start a thread about.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 09:24 AM   #140
trustbutverify
Philosopher
 
trustbutverify's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8,078
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
This just isn't accurate.

Edit: I see this has been covered.
It's actually wildly inaccurate. At the grand master level, white tends to win non-drawn games near the 56% mark, which is a crushing advantage. There have been past greats who argued for black, or attributed white's advantage as purely psychological, but big data and computer vs computer matches have ended whatever debate previously existed.
__________________
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Wollen owns the stage
trustbutverify is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 09:29 AM   #141
metacristi
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Because white moves first. Seriously.

This is being argued by Australia's national broadcaster, the ABC:

https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-s...60fc5f4d9fff48



It would not surprise me to see that some members of this forum think this is a serious issue worthy of debate. If so, let's hear the reasoning.

The NZ National Soccer Team the All Whites must now be worried (and probably the All Blacks as well), as will all teams where white colours dominate their strip.

I will no doubt be accused of trolling, but the debate about white pieces in chess is happening now. I'm not making this up. In fact before today, I would not have been able to envisage such a debate.

I'm not surprised at all. 'Progressives' can apparently do miracles, sort of multiplying the breads from basically nothing, they have indeed the ability to rebrand as 'racism' basically anything stand in their way (lots of new racisms lately) and make also the whole society swallow entirely this. They are merely cheating of course, but if we do not criticize this ideology rationally then I would not be surprised that even chess will be moved 'to the Index'.
__________________
“It is often said that knowledge is power, but it might be more correct to say that [critical] thinking is power.”

ibn Warraq - Why I am not a Muslim

My view of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book 'Heretic'

Last edited by metacristi; 24th June 2020 at 09:30 AM.
metacristi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 09:32 AM   #142
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,958
Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
I'm not surprised at all. 'Progressives' can apparently do miracles, sort of multiplying the breads from basically nothing, they have indeed the ability to rebrand as 'racism' basically anything stand in their way (lots of new racisms lately) and make also the whole society swallow entirely this. They are merely cheating of course, but if we do not criticize this ideology rationally then I would not be surprised that even chess will be moved 'to the Index'.

Why the inverted commas?
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 09:56 AM   #143
I Am The Scum
Illuminator
 
I Am The Scum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,429
Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
I'm not surprised at all. 'Progressives' can apparently do miracles, sort of multiplying the breads from basically nothing, they have indeed the ability to rebrand as 'racism' basically anything stand in their way (lots of new racisms lately) and make also the whole society swallow entirely this. They are merely cheating of course, but if we do not criticize this ideology rationally then I would not be surprised that even chess will be moved 'to the Index'.
I told you guys it showed us the generation of right-wing outrage.
I Am The Scum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 10:43 AM   #144
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,920
Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
I'm not surprised at all. 'Progressives' can apparently do miracles, sort of multiplying the breads from basically nothing, they have indeed the ability to rebrand as 'racism' basically anything stand in their way (lots of new racisms lately) and make also the whole society swallow entirely this. They are merely cheating of course, but if we do not criticize this ideology rationally then I would not be surprised that even chess will be moved 'to the Index'.
Yup, it's definitely the "Progressives" who are overreacting here.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 10:48 AM   #145
metacristi
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Why the inverted commas?

how about because progressivism went astray in the 1990s? The postmodernist version of today hardly deserve this name, being rather closer to Stalinism (yes even Stalin thought he was doing ''justice'). There was a healthy version of it before 1990s, where free speech had also a strong presence, but I'm afraid we have to return to the peaceful fight for social rights for all (largely replaced by the new 'class struggle' 'justice for minorities with all costs, even violence, lies') to find rationality again.
__________________
“It is often said that knowledge is power, but it might be more correct to say that [critical] thinking is power.”

ibn Warraq - Why I am not a Muslim

My view of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book 'Heretic'

Last edited by metacristi; 24th June 2020 at 11:00 AM.
metacristi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 10:55 AM   #146
metacristi
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I told you guys it showed us the generation of right-wing outrage.

Thanks for making my point that the progressives of today can easily turn everything in an 'enemy of justice'. No thanks I am rather leaning toward the Left. Unlike you I am pricing Reason very highly.
__________________
“It is often said that knowledge is power, but it might be more correct to say that [critical] thinking is power.”

ibn Warraq - Why I am not a Muslim

My view of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book 'Heretic'
metacristi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 10:59 AM   #147
metacristi
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Yup, it's definitely the "Progressives" who are overreacting here.

I'm afraid inventing everyday new forms of 'racism' is a definitory characteristics of postmodernist progressiveness, anything is possible if chess 'hurts the feelings' of someone in the progressive camp...
__________________
“It is often said that knowledge is power, but it might be more correct to say that [critical] thinking is power.”

ibn Warraq - Why I am not a Muslim

My view of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book 'Heretic'
metacristi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:08 AM   #148
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45,718
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Yes, this is really what OP should have done before starting the thread. Instead he seems to have just uncritically accepted everything Adams said without questioning whether or not it was true or an accurate description of what actually happened. And then considered it noteworthy enough to start a thread about.
You wonder why I have not quoted angry denials from the ABC that Adams was telling the truth?

Because there aren’t any. Which I find extremely surprising. The ABC is a huge media organisation being criticised in a widespread manner over this. If the criticism is inaccurate, why no comment?
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:09 AM   #149
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,818
The one thing chess cannot be accused of being is sexist. True, the game ends when the king is captured, but that only shows that the king is a coveted possession, a trophy for which the battle is being fought, the Helen of Troy of the game. The king, he is a veritable stay-at-home hausfrau that staggers around one step at a time, forever coddled and protected by others; and, what is more, the most powerful of its protectors is the queen, dashing around the board in all magnificence, killing man and beast left and right.
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:14 AM   #150
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,920
Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
I'm afraid inventing everyday new forms of 'racism' is a definitory characteristics of postmodernist progressiveness, anything is possible if chess 'hurts the feelings' of someone in the progressive camp...
Thank you for another perfect example of overreaction.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:18 AM   #151
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,958
Originally Posted by metacristi View Post
how about...
Sorry, is this a pitch? Or are you speculating?
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:26 AM   #152
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 32,123
Originally Posted by beren View Post
Nothing in the game would change if a coin flip or other mechanism was used to decide who goes first.
This is true so long as you re-arrange the pieces so the starting player's pieces are always on the 1st and 2nd rank, and the kings are always on the e file.

That's way more important than the color of the pieces used and probably the primary reason for the "white goes first" convention.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:28 AM   #153
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 56,020
Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
The one thing chess cannot be accused of being is sexist. True, the game ends when the king is captured, but that only shows that the king is a coveted possession, a trophy for which the battle is being fought, the Helen of Troy of the game. The king, he is a veritable stay-at-home hausfrau that staggers around one step at a time, forever coddled and protected by others; and, what is more, the most powerful of its protectors is the queen, dashing around the board in all magnificence, killing man and beast left and right.
On the other hand, there are exactly two explictly female pieces on the board and they're expected to do most of the work, yet they are less valuable than the barely-mobile kings.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:30 AM   #154
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 92,296
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Why the inverted commas?
To show it is something they have made up. Should really be around their whole post.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:30 AM   #155
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28,920
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
You wonder why I have not quoted angry denials from the ABC that Adams was telling the truth?

Because there aren’t any. Which I find extremely surprising. The ABC is a huge media organisation being criticised in a widespread manner over this. If the criticism is inaccurate, why no comment?
Well, then, that must mean that ABC has adopted as official policy that chess is racist, and that they were planning to have a Very Important Debate about it. That must be why the journalist who wrote the article didn't report approaching ABC for a comment.

Although, of course, James Valentine has "made it clear approaching Mr Adams was to have a discussion, not brand chess as ‘racist’."

This journalist did approach ABC for a comment and, in doing so, lo and behold they got one! Who'd have thought?

Quote:
“The ABC has not broadcast any content that has covered this issue. The rules of chess have been a topic of discussion within the chess community in recent days and a member of the ABC Radio Sydney team made preliminary enquiries regarding what had sparked that discussion. No interview was done nor put to air.”
Still, since that's technically accurate (as the statement was issued before the interview) but doesn't tell the whole story (because the interview did happen), perhaps they're lying in order to cover up the horrible truth that ABC has instituted a policy that henceforth chess should be considered racist.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:32 AM   #156
SpitfireIX
Philosopher
 
SpitfireIX's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana, USA
Posts: 5,049
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Since which player gets the white pieces is randomised, it's the same as doing a coin flip to determine who moves first anyway.

But I think it would be better with purple and green pieces. Purple fights green, green fights purple.

I see what you did there. Well played, sir.
__________________
Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims:
1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage
2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli
3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya
SpitfireIX is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:32 AM   #157
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 56,020
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
This is true so long as you re-arrange the pieces so the starting player's pieces are always on the 1st and 2nd rank, and the kings are always on the e file.

That's way more important than the color of the pieces used and probably the primary reason for the "white goes first" convention.
The single most important factor in chess victory is if you can convincingly ask your opponent "how does the horse go, again?" and suffuse them with overconfidence.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:33 AM   #158
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 32,123
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
On the other hand, there are exactly two explictly female pieces on the board and they're expected to do most of the work, yet they are less valuable than the barely-mobile kings.
You also have 16 pieces on the board that are on a quest to become explicitly female pieces, although few make it.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.
Upchurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:35 AM   #159
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 56,020
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
You also have 16 pieces on the board that are on a quest to become explicitly female pieces, although few make it.
They are peasants who have to ransack and loot the enemy's homeland to afford a sex-change.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2020, 11:37 AM   #160
Elagabalus
Philosopher
 
Elagabalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,928
Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
Hmmn. Most high-level players believe black has the advantage. Going first lets you get a pawn out quickly, but black is better able to avoid pawn islands.
Yes, avoid the Pawn Islands at all cost! Especially the ports on the leeward side, where once ashore, it seems the entire population is committed to manipulating you to their own nefarious ends!
Elagabalus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:04 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.