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Old 27th June 2020, 01:51 PM   #121
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I ******* love this ****. Precisely the people who would have been denying people access to everything from a good education to even making a decent living for simply existing are now whining and crying about how they can't call someone a fag or talk about how black people are inferior (for example) without suffering consequences!
You are completely wrong. It is not the same people. I have always been in favor of non-discrimination against gays, against minorities. I have never encouraged denying someone an education or a decent living for simply existing. Never. In any circumstances.

I'm willing to bet that none of the participants in this thread so far have ever done it either, or at least they certainly don't do it now.

So, your statement fails right from the beginning. There are no people in this thread who are behaving as you describe.

Furthermore, you are comparing "denying someone a decent living" and "suffering any consequences". That, too, is an inappropriate comparison.

For the record, I would not deny someone a decent living if I found out that someone had called someone else a fag. I would, on the other hand, think that person might justly suffer some sort of consequences.

Truth matters, and your post does not reflect the truth.
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Old 27th June 2020, 01:55 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
As recently as the 1990's Ellen Degeneres's show was cancelled after she came out of the closet...
I don't know anything about this because I never watched or paid attention. But I'm surprised that her show was cancelled because of politics rather than something like a business decision because of dropping ratings which is connected to the advertising revenue and of course that's all about money.

What happened?
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Old 27th June 2020, 01:59 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
You are completely wrong. It is not the same people. I have always been in favor of non-discrimination against gays, against minorities. I have never encouraged denying someone an education or a decent living for simply existing. Never. In any circumstances.

I'm willing to bet that none of the participants in this thread so far have ever done it either, or at least they certainly don't do it now.

So, your statement fails right from the beginning. There are no people in this thread who are behaving as you describe.
Tell me this: What makes your judgment of members of this forum more valid than mine?

Seriously, if you don't think some of the posters in this thread are vile racists (for example), then you haven't been paying very close attention at all. Further, if you think their racism (for example) doesn't play a role when they make decisions outside this forum, you're living in denial of reality itself.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:05 PM   #124
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I caught an NPR piece last night that is very applicable here. It's rare for me to catch NPR these days, but, quite unusually, I was in my car yesterday. The piece was about the polarization in American society these day, and the guest was a researcher who stuidied the phenomenon. Her biggest finding that she pushed was the manner in which each side misrepresented the other.

Democrats had opinions about certain subjects, and those were sometimes very strong opinions, or other times not so strong. Sometimes, they believed something, but weren't all that concerned about it. However, when describing Republicans, they attributed strong, hard line, stances to them. The same thing was true of Republicans. They might be mildly supportive of a particular position, but when describing Democrats, the Republicans said that the Democrats were all fiercely opposed to that position.

Each tended to attribute to anyone on the other side of the aisle the most strident views possible on an issue. A conservative might say that they opposed abortion, but they would say that all Democrats wanted abortion legal for any reason right up until the moment of birth, and always paid for completely by government or mandatory insurance coverage. A Democrat might favor abortion, but would say that the Republicans are always opposed to it in every case, even including rape, incest, "morning after pills", or any other exception.

In truth, there's a lot of middle ground on that, and on almost every other issue. Most people occupy ground somewhere between the two extremes.

That's what is happening here, as well. The seventeen year old girl who said something about the death of George Floyd is being lumped in with people who don't think homosexuals should be protected from being fired. There's no connection. None. But here we are. She's obviously racist, which is not in evidence, and obviously homophobic, which is not even part of the topic she was discussing, but we "know" that all Trump supporters are all racist and all homophobes. Meanwhile they "know" that all Trump opponents are socialists who hate the police.

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Old 27th June 2020, 02:09 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Tell me this: What makes your judgment of members of this forum more valid than mine?
Because, unless I am sadly mistaken, I am one of the people "wringing my hands" about what is happening in America today with regard to freedom of speech, and I know that your description doesn't apply to me.


Does your description apply to anyone else in this thread? As best I can tell, possibly one person. There's no one I'm certain of, but possibly one.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:10 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I ******* love this ****. Precisely the people who would have been denying people access to everything from a good education to even making a decent living for simply existing are now whining and crying about how they can't call someone a fag or talk about how black people are inferior (for example) without suffering consequences!

Yeah, that's right: I'm saying there are people wringing their hands in this thread who had absolutely no problem with discriminating against people for simply existing. I love the flavor of your fear of suffering consequences for things you actually say and do, and it's hilarious that you're so scared of those consequences that you'll twist the law into a pretzel in order to try to get a little protection from your own racism, sexism, etc. It's awesome!
Thank you.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:10 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
That's what is happening here, as well. The seventeen year old girl who said something about the death of George Floyd is being lumped in with people who don't think homosexuals should be protected from being fired. There's no connection. None. But here we are. She's obviously racist, which is not in evidence, and obviously homophobic, which is not even part of the topic she was discussing, but we
"know" that all Trump supporters are all racist and all homophobes. Meanwhile they "know" that all Trump opponents are socialists who hate the police.
Is that really what's happening here? Is this thread specifically about that one incident? Or are you trying to make it about that one incident because it serves you best, just like one of us crazy polarized people might do?
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:18 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Because, unless I am sadly mistaken, I am one of the people "wringing my hands" about what is happening in America today with regard to freedom of speech, and I know that your description doesn't apply to me.


Does your description apply to anyone else in this thread? As best I can tell, possibly one person. There's no one I'm certain of, but possibly one.
I wasn't specifically referring to you. If I was inclined to name names in a post that would earn me a yellow card (and probably a suspension; I've been relatively problematic recently) and be consigned to AAH, I could name several.

You should try to read posts a little better. "There are people wringing their hands in this thread..." If I had intended to excoriate everyone I would said "Everyone wringing their hands in this thread."
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:20 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Is that really what's happening here? Is this thread specifically about that one incident? Or are you trying to make it about that one incident because it serves you best, just like one of us crazy polarized people might do?
Pick any other incident then. That girl. Amy Cooper and Nick Sandmann have been discussed already in this thread.

To be fair, although it has grown into a left wing phenomenon, there's also Colin Kapiernick (sp?) He's an example of someone harassed and marginalized by the right wing for speaking out on a political belief. It's a little bit different, but every case is a little bit different.

So, no, I don't want it to be about that one case. I want to be about any case where people have been deprived of an education or their ability to make a living because of their exercise of free speech.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:24 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I wasn't specifically referring to you. If I was inclined to name names in a post that would earn me a yellow card (and probably a suspension; I've been relatively problematic recently) and be consigned to AAH, I could name several.

You should try to read posts a little better. "There are people wringing their hands in this thread..." If I had intended to excoriate everyone I would said "Everyone wringing their hands in this thread."
Fair enough. There are certainly right wingers who have opposed every advance of civil rights in America, going way back to the 60s, and who are now wringing their hands about freedom. Maybe some of the people in this thread are among those people.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:24 PM   #131
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It's pretty funny that a couple white people get punished for being idiots and it means there's a whole goddamn culture going wrong.

Don't mind me. I'll just keep laughing.
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Old 27th June 2020, 02:40 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
??

Of course not. What did I say that suggested that?
Well, you said the Internet ranters are in lockstep with CNN. If you did not mean that the internet ranters are in lockstep with CNN, you might have chosen a different way to say it.
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Old 27th June 2020, 03:09 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I don't know anything about this because I never watched or paid attention. But I'm surprised that her show was cancelled because of politics rather than something like a business decision because of dropping ratings which is connected to the advertising revenue and of course that's all about money.

What happened?
You're 1/2 right. Ratings dropped. Probably because Disney stopped promoting the show.

Quote:
Ellen reached its height of popularity in April 1997, when DeGeneres came out as a lesbian on The Oprah Winfrey Show. Her character on the sitcom also came out of the closet to her therapist, played by Oprah Winfrey.[17] The coming-out episode, titled "The Puppy Episode", was one of the highest-rated episodes of the show. The series returned for a fifth season but experienced falling ratings due to ABC's cutting back on promoting the show.[18] It was believed that The Walt Disney Company, ABC's parent owner, had become uncomfortable with the subject matter depicted on the show now that DeGeneres' character was openly gay.[19]

How Ellen DeGeneres' Historic Coming-Out Episode Changed Television

Quote:
Yet the coming-out episode also faced a backlash. As word of "The Puppy Episode" spread, hate mail poured into Ellen's offices. Reverend Jerry Falwell and televangelist Pat Robertson publicly mocked DeGeneres as "Ellen DeGenerate" and joined others in signing a letter that decried the show as a "blatant attempt to promote homosexuality." At one point a bomb threat was called into the studio. DeGeneres told Page Six in 2017, "I had no idea the amount of hate. I had no idea that there would be death threats or a bomb scare. It was a really scary time."

Some advertisers withdrew from the episode. A Chrysler spokesperson told The New York Times, "It's a business decision about trying to stay out of the fray. The environment around this is so angry we feel we lose no matter what we do." JCPenney, Domino's Pizza and McDonald's joined the car company in not airing ads. The Human Rights Campaign and a cruise line that focused on a lesbian clientele tried to buy spots instead, but ABC declined their ads.
Quote:
Ellen returned the next year ready to tell stories about a gay woman — but the show was forced to add parental advisory warnings when Ellen Morgan had a same-sex kiss.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:40 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
This thread began with an example of a seventeen year old girl expressing an opinion on a political subject, and her life being negatively affected in a significant manner (college admission rescinded, and significant negative and unwanted attention) as a result of that.


Show me any comparable case from the 1970s or 1980s. Anything. Things have changed with respect to free speech, and not for the better.
I just don't think there's a big change, is all. Just that it's more visible. This is why it's unfair to ask for examples from the 70s. They're not something I can send you a link to. The conversations were on the phone and not recorded on tape, instead of online where somebody can share a screen cap.



Just as one example that I generalized earlier upthread, one of my dad's friends was kicked out of the golf club because it was revealed that he had a Jewish grandmother. Somebody heard, then there was a flurry of phonecalls, and a poison pen letter campaign to all the clubs he was a member of that were WASP exclusive. The golf club was just one, but it's the one closest to us because he was my dad's regular golf foursome partner.

Pretty significant impact on his life, because a lot of his business deals were networked in these clubs, probably mostly the golf club and the Vancouver Club. His business flagged after the exposure. That was mid-70s.



I have one from the mid-80s. A friend lost thousands of dollars in scholarships when he was outed as gay. Like the above, there was a flurry of poison pen letters and phonecalls. They called the restaurant where he worked, too, trying to get him fired. Those were the AIDS scare years.



So, these stories, times a hundred million. But it wasn't as out there in the public eye because mass communication just didn't work that way, it was slower and nonarchival.
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Old 27th June 2020, 04:44 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
I just don't think there's a big change, is all. Just that it's more visible. This is why it's unfair to ask for examples from the 70s. They're not something I can send you a link to. The conversations were on the phone and not recorded on tape, instead of online where somebody can share a screen cap.



Just as one example that I generalized earlier upthread, one of my dad's friends was kicked out of the golf club because it was revealed that he had a Jewish grandmother. Somebody heard, then there was a flurry of phonecalls, and a poison pen letter campaign to all the clubs he was a member of that were WASP exclusive. The golf club was just one, but it's the one closest to us because he was my dad's regular golf foursome partner.

Pretty significant impact on his life, because a lot of his business deals were networked in these clubs, probably mostly the golf club and the Vancouver Club. His business flagged after the exposure. That was mid-70s.



I have one from the mid-80s. A friend lost thousands of dollars in scholarships when he was outed as gay. Like the above, there was a flurry of poison pen letters and phonecalls. They called the restaurant where he worked, too, trying to get him fired. Those were the AIDS scare years.



So, these stories, times a hundred million. But it wasn't as out there in the public eye because mass communication just didn't work that way, it was slower and nonarchival.
Are you using that as an example of the way things should work?
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:54 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Are you using that as an example of the way things should work?
I have difficulty imagining anyone would be so stupid as to think that's what the post referred to says, and have difficulty figuring out why anyone would even suggest it in good faith. Blutoski is saying what he actually said, which is that its' not so new.

edit to add: just to be clear I am not suggesting the remark was stupid, but I am suggesting a tendentious argument that strains credulity.
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Old 27th June 2020, 05:58 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
Are you using that as an example of the way things should work?
Not at all.

What I'm objecting to is the premise that this is a new problem that just cropped up, that it used to be so much better in the old days, we could talk politics and bad mouth people without consequences.

Like, the days when we didn't have to worry about somebody who didn't like what we said at the office Christmas party, narcing about it to our boss, because that was never a thing.

That gossip and poison pens are some sort of byproduct of the Internet.
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Old 27th June 2020, 06:01 PM   #138
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White people are finding out they can no longer openly advocate white supremacy without consequence. Oh the humanity.
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Old 27th June 2020, 06:15 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Not at all.

What I'm objecting to is the premise that this is a new problem that just cropped up, that it used to be so much better in the old days, we could talk politics and bad mouth people without consequences.

Like, the days when we didn't have to worry about somebody who didn't like what we said at the office Christmas party, narcing about it to our boss, because that was never a thing.

That gossip and poison pens are some sort of byproduct of the Internet.
It's a bit contradictory, though.

This thread seems to be asserting that it's great that this thing was done which is such a terrible thing to do.
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Old 27th June 2020, 06:36 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
This thread seems to be asserting that it's great that this thing was done which is such a terrible thing to do.
Ah, OK. Different claims, is the problem. I'm talking specifically about it not being a new problem. Others are despairing about mob rule and poison pen letters existing at all, regardless of whether it's a new or old problem.


So yes, discussion about the latter has some 'contradictory' elements, and my take on it is that a more appropriate word is 'hypocrisy'. That it's bad when they do it to us, but it's good when we do it to them.

Poison pens letters suck if I'm the target, but sometimes they're appropriate because I was getting away with something. That's why I brought up Dr. Polevoy's efforts to expose Adam Dreamhealer's identity, as soon as he heard Adam enrolled in medical school. He wanted to get that kid expelled, there was no moral hesitation. I'm not ashamed to admit that I agree with him on this.

Mob justice is baked into the DNA of organized skepticism. If the police won't do something about these crooks, then galdurnit, we'll do it ourselves. We've been crowdsourcing **** storms for 45 years. I was just in a conversation with a local skeptic veteran last weekend, where he talked about how when postmodernism was 'growing like a cancer' in his college in the 80s, he knew the best way to get these profs marginalized was to leak some scuttlebut about them to the dean.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:05 PM   #141
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Just in case it's not clear I am of the opinion that poison pen letters, threats, anonymous harm, and so forth are bad whoever does it and why. When a person says something despicable it's well within bounds to react and say it's despicable, and well within bounds to rethink one's relationship with that person.

I believe that when a person makes a statement that implies dangerous or harmful attitudes, hypocrisy, and the like, it's reasonable to rethink that person's standing, but not summarily, and it should be beneath a reasonable person to inflict harm on someone as a way of saying it's wrong to advocate inflicting harm.

If I were suddenly and unexpectedly to say something horribly inconsistent with what I avow, I should expect to be taken to task for it by those I'm involved with, and if people think I'm a danger, then yes, perhaps even to "doxx" me and bring my transgressions to someone's attention. I think sometimes we're hampered in our ability to correct obvious wrongdoing by our childhood injunction not to tattle. But I still think that it would be excessive for others to fire me, or cancel university admission, etc. without first confronting me and getting an account of what happened.

One should not confuse the amusement of irony with approval. I do think that when a person who publicly makes the point that a person's misdeeds are responsible for repercussions far beyond what is reasonable, it is a nice bit of irony that she ends up being the victim of the wrong that she advocates. This does not make the wrong right. It's just a harsh reminder of why it's wrong.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:11 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's pretty funny that a couple white people get punished for being idiots and it means there's a whole goddamn culture going wrong.

Don't mind me. I'll just keep laughing.
I'll tell what's wrong. Some racist rednecks didn't actually get hurt. That is wrong.
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Old 27th June 2020, 07:52 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
That's insane stuff and Ellen was pure gold money.

Everyone knew that she was lesbian. Everyone just sat there all okay until she came out?

Canned for coming out and then actually being a lesbian. What would they have done if she used the "n word" before coming out? Bleep it and keep her.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:01 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Somebody heard, then there was a flurry of phonecalls, and a poison pen letter campaign to all the clubs he was a member of that were WASP exclusive. The golf club was just one, but it's the one closest to us because he was my dad's regular golf foursome partner.
That is just so racist and stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those black-people-exclusive-only-blacks golf clubs let the Jewish man in because of what had happened to him with the white racists. But there may not have been one of those around the area.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:10 PM   #145
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But there is an extremely rare possibility that if the Jewish man goes to the Black-Only Golf Club and explains what the white racists did to him they might just tell him to go and find a Jewish Golf Club or any other club that isn't filled with prejudiced racists. But again, that is extremely rare in these situations.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:37 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That's insane stuff and Ellen was pure gold money.

Everyone knew that she was lesbian. Everyone just sat there all okay until she came out?

Canned for coming out and then actually being a lesbian. What would they have done if she used the "n word" before coming out? Bleep it and keep her.
I realize it's controversial to actually consider other factors, but I watched that show at the time, both before and after Ellen's coming out. There were cast changes, and from what I remember the writing spiralled into everything gay, gay, gay. I know that was exciting and novel at the time, but even for a gay audience a show gets dull if it can't go five minutes without being all about the gaiety. There's a balance required-- you can have a "niche" demographic show, but if that's all it's about it gets boring.
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Old 27th June 2020, 08:48 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That is just so racist and stupid. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those black-people-exclusive-only-blacks golf clubs let the Jewish man in because of what had happened to him with the white racists. But there may not have been one of those around the area.
There is not, no. All the old ones are male WASP exclusive; all the new ones are completely open.
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Old 28th June 2020, 05:15 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
But I still think that it would be excessive for others to fire me, or cancel university admission, etc. without first confronting me and getting an account of what happened.
Then the people getting you fired are doing you a favor.

If you find out the employer or college operates such that they do not confront you, I can't imagine you wanting to associate with them, either.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:11 AM   #149
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Focusing on the case mentioned in the OP -

I think the school, especially being a Christian school, has every right to revoke acceptance if they don't want to be associated with someone like the girl in the OP. It sucks for her, and it might be a little extreme, but I think it's fair.

I think the people who send folks like that dumb girl harassing messages and death threats and stuff are pathetic lunatics, however, especially considering that this moron is a teenager who will likely grow out of her dumb beliefs upon getting away from her parents. When I was 17, I was still vaguely pro-life (though I didn't concern myself with the issue much), and I thought everyone in the military was a brave, venerable hero. Seventeen-year-olds are STUPID. The adults bullying her are weirdos who need to chill.

I'm fine with what the school did, though. Actions have consequences, even for dumb teenagers. It's the mass-harassment part of these stories that tends to bother me, but I don't think it can be stopped. As others in the thread have pointed out, it seems to be a common element of human nature. And social media is the new town square. So if you say dumb **** in the town square, you're going to have problems. People don't seem to get that.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:45 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Focusing on the case mentioned in the OP -

I think the school, especially being a Christian school, has every right to revoke acceptance if they don't want to be associated with someone like the girl in the OP. It sucks for her, and it might be a little extreme, but I think it's fair.

I think the people who send folks like that dumb girl harassing messages and death threats and stuff are pathetic lunatics, however, especially considering that this moron is a teenager who will likely grow out of her dumb beliefs upon getting away from her parents. When I was 17, I was still vaguely pro-life (though I didn't concern myself with the issue much), and I thought everyone in the military was a brave, venerable hero. Seventeen-year-olds are STUPID. The adults bullying her are weirdos who need to chill.

I'm fine with what the school did, though. Actions have consequences, even for dumb teenagers. It's the mass-harassment part of these stories that tends to bother me, but I don't think it can be stopped. As others in the thread have pointed out, it seems to be a common element of human nature. And social media is the new town square. So if you say dumb **** in the town square, you're going to have problems. People don't seem to get that.
One might think that a private Christian school would welcome the opportunity to educate this young woman. Assuming that her initial application must have indicated that their efforts would be worthwhile.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:55 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Focusing on the case mentioned in the OP -

I think the school, especially being a Christian school, has every right to revoke acceptance if they don't want to be associated with someone like the girl in the OP. It sucks for her, and it might be a little extreme, but I think it's fair.

I think the people who send folks like that dumb girl harassing messages and death threats and stuff are pathetic lunatics, however, especially considering that this moron is a teenager who will likely grow out of her dumb beliefs upon getting away from her parents. When I was 17, I was still vaguely pro-life (though I didn't concern myself with the issue much), and I thought everyone in the military was a brave, venerable hero. Seventeen-year-olds are STUPID. The adults bullying her are weirdos who need to chill.

I'm fine with what the school did, though. Actions have consequences, even for dumb teenagers. It's the mass-harassment part of these stories that tends to bother me, but I don't think it can be stopped. As others in the thread have pointed out, it seems to be a common element of human nature. And social media is the new town square. So if you say dumb **** in the town square, you're going to have problems. People don't seem to get that.
You seem to have the balance about right. Once the college was made aware of her post and the reactions to it, they had to do what was needed to protect their reputation and their bottom line.

It's the people who outed her who are to blame. Destroying one's potential career or even getting somebody sacked is a disproportionate response to what is essentially just an opinion. Treating the politically incorrect like lepers or murderers is just plain stupidity that is bound to cause violent backlashes.
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Old 28th June 2020, 08:59 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
One might think that a private Christian school would welcome the opportunity to educate this young woman. Assuming that her initial application must have indicated that their efforts would be worthwhile.
Oh, I think it's fair to say she learned something from the school: racist ******** aren't welcome here.

Poor little snowflake.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:06 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
One might think that a private Christian school would welcome the opportunity to educate this young woman. Assuming that her initial application must have indicated that their efforts would be worthwhile.
I do agree with that, at least up to a point - that point being if the school did so summarily, or based only on the visible posting. That does not seem either like good policy or good Christianity.

I think it's well within bounds for the school to re-evaluate their admission, and well within bounds for them to base their decision on how well she handles that necessity, and perhaps (we can't know all this here) on how much the posting in question indicates that she misrepresented herself at the time of admission.

Any college has the task of educating its students according to what its purpose is stated to be, but it does not have the task of re-educating them back to the level they were presumed to meet when admitted.

e.t.a. for example, if a person applies to a school noted for its math education and says he passed high school calculus, and then is found to be unable to add or subtract, it's reasonable for that school to rescind its admission even though teaching math is presumably its forte.

That said, I suspect that the college is being no more thoughtful or humane in its action than others, and there's a good chance that their visible action, rather than correcting a problem, is echoing it.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:14 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
One might think that a private Christian school would welcome the opportunity to educate this young woman. Assuming that her initial application must have indicated that their efforts would be worthwhile.
Sure, but it's still their choice. Other schools might have made a different choice. The choice this particular institution made doesn't scandalize me the way the people who have chosen to personally dog-pile the girl do.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:19 AM   #155
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The problem with the argument that these companies are choosing to not be associated with racists Is that the person was always racist and they associated with them for possibly years.

If you interacted with a company with more than 200 hundred employees, you interacted with a company that associates with racists
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:24 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The problem with the argument that these companies are choosing to not be associated with racists Is that the person was always racist and they associated with them for possibly years.

If you interacted with a company with more than 200 hundred employees, you interacted with a company that associates with racists
Yes, in any large group, it is likely that some people are secretly racists. But once one of them comes right out with it, and hangs up a banner proclaiming it, that kind of changes the game. It goes from "there are probably racists here" to "this person is a proud racist and they're announcing it all over the internet."

Unless I've misunderstood your meaning.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:31 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Yes, in any large group, it is likely that some people are secretly racists. But once one of them comes right out with it, and hangs up a banner proclaiming it, that kind of changes the game. It goes from "there are probably racists here" to "this person is a proud racist and they're announcing it all over the internet."

Unless I've misunderstood your meaning.
If racism is so bad, why should we tolerate a company so casually accepting racist employees simply because they don't know which ones they are?
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:35 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If racism is so bad, why should we tolerate a company so casually accepting racist employees simply because they don't know which ones they are?
Hold on, let me smoke like 10 joints so I can get on the level to answer such a question.


...................

Okay, so are you suggesting that no one should hire anyone because they might have secret bad beliefs?

If so, my question would be - why should I care about my employee's secret beliefs as long as they're not publicly announcing them and embarrassing the company?
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:41 AM   #159
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Here's a similar incident with some key differences:

Quote:
Kansas State players will not play, practice or meet until a student at the university is dismissed for a tweet posted earlier this week. Several Wildcats players, including sophomore all-purpose receiver Joshua Youngblood, posted an image on Twitter with a statement announcing the boycott on Saturday.

The boycott stems from a tweet posted by Kansas State student Jaden McNeil mocking the death of George Floyd.
Unfortunately I cannot read the tweet in question and the story provides no further detail. It does not appear that the student was doxxed since the twitter account is in McNeil's name. But note that unlike the case in the OP, he is attending a public university, not a private one, and that for me makes a great deal of difference. I doubt if the university will be foolish enough to cave to their demands (it's clearly free speech), and as a practical matter, I suspect McNeil will decided to further his education elsewhere.
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Old 28th June 2020, 09:43 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
Hold on, let me smoke like 10 joints so I can get on the level to answer such a question.


...................

Okay, so are you suggesting that no one should hire anyone because they might have secret bad beliefs?

If so, my question would be - why should I care about my employee's secret beliefs as long as they're not publicly announcing them and embarrassing the company?
I presume in most cases they are being fired because the organization rejects the views advocated rather than a purely face saving strategy.
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