ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 30th June 2020, 07:53 AM   #1
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 27,289
Right-wingers being shut down

Well it looks like it’s a bad day for the right as David Duke, Richard Spencer and Stefan Moluneux are having their You Tubes shut down. And some other ones too.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...e_iOSApp_Other

Also, Reddit have decided to pul the plug on some unsavory subreddits

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...e_iOSApp_Other

So there is a bit of a cull of right-wing views going on at the moment.

Is this a rosy new dawn of the right way to think or just heavy handed censorship?

For me, I think this and Glinner’s ban on Twitter, are probably not actual moves forward. They can do what they want, of course, depending upon what they see as their role in the public sphere. Similarly I wasn’t the biggest fan of banning even people like Alex Jones. I suppose there are still platforms for them.

Discuss.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

Last edited by angrysoba; 30th June 2020 at 07:56 AM.
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 07:54 AM   #2
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
I note that Reddit is still allowing all the rape and misogyny subs so you can still freely discuss bashing women's heads in with hammers
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 07:58 AM   #3
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 27,289
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
I note that Reddit is still allowing all the rape and misogyny subs so you can still freely discuss bashing women's heads in with hammers
I suppose they still have subreddits where Mexican drug cartels can upload snuff videos too.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 07:59 AM   #4
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I suppose they still have subreddits where Mexican drug cartels can upload snuff videos too.
Perhaps - I don't often see those in "Hot" though
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:18 AM   #5
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,721
YouTube seems like a different example than Twitter or Reddit because YouTube allows content creators of sufficient size to monetize their channels. It's one thing to host objectionable content, another to pay for bigots to create it, even if ad revenue is a bit of an indirect route. I'm not sure if any of these people were actually running ads, or if they had been demonetized in the past, which is often a first step taken by YouTube before banning.


It goes without saying that this isn't from the goodness of the tech company's heart. The social stigma of carrying these vile bigots was probably threatening their business.

For example, there has been a campaign to pressure companies to not advertise on Facebook, with some success, in response to the Trump campaign ad that included nazi concentration camp imagery.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 30th June 2020 at 08:19 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:26 AM   #6
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Vile bigotry as seen in r/gendercritical and not say r/pussypassdenied - it seems to be that while words are violence, actual violence, when directed at women, often isn't
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:28 AM   #7
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,721
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Vile bigotry as seen in r/gendercritical and not say r/pussypassdenied - it seems to be that while words are violence, actual violence, when directed at women, often isn't
What reddit really hates is high profile embarrassments and subreddits that troll outside out their own space.

So long as these other subreddits stay out of the larger public eye and don't brigade, they're probably safe.

There used to be a subreddit called /jailbait that existed to sexualize children that only got banned when media scrutiny raised the issue.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:35 AM   #8
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
What reddit really hates is high profile embarrassments and subreddits that troll outside out their own space.

r/againsthatesubredits regularly brags about brigading other subs and subs mentioned on there have had child and bestiality porn posted on them in an attempt to shut them down. I'd say that was pretty embarrassing for Reddit yet they're still here

Last edited by zooterkin; 30th June 2020 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Fixing broken tag
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:43 AM   #9
Cainkane1
Philosopher
 
Cainkane1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The great American southeast
Posts: 8,841
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Well it looks like it’s a bad day for the right as David Duke, Richard Spencer and Stefan Moluneux are having their You Tubes shut down. And some other ones too.

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...e_iOSApp_Other

Also, Reddit have decided to pul the plug on some unsavory subreddits

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...e_iOSApp_Other

So there is a bit of a cull of right-wing views going on at the moment.

Is this a rosy new dawn of the right way to think or just heavy handed censorship?

For me, I think this and Glinner’s ban on Twitter, are probably not actual moves forward. They can do what they want, of course, depending upon what they see as their role in the public sphere. Similarly I wasn’t the biggest fan of banning even people like Alex Jones. I suppose there are still platforms for them.

Discuss.
Democracy at its best. Voltaire said it best. I may disagree with everything you say but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it. Youtube is very offbase doing this. If you disagree with whats being said you can argue with them in the comments section. No need to ban them.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.
Cainkane1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:47 AM   #10
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
If you disagree with whats being said you can argue with them in the comments section.
Oh sweet summer child
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:48 AM   #11
RedStapler
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 368
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Democracy at its best. Voltaire said it best. I may disagree with everything you say but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it. Youtube is very offbase doing this. If you disagree with whats being said you can argue with them in the comments section. No need to ban them.
You know that reality has left you way behind when you cite some bloke from several hundred years ago and try to pin some relevancy on it
RedStapler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:54 AM   #12
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 12,024
Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Democracy at its best. Voltaire said it best. I may disagree with everything you say but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it. Youtube is very offbase doing this. If you disagree with whats being said you can argue with them in the comments section. No need to ban them.

common misattribution.


Evelyn Beatrice Hall wrote that in a piece titled "The Friends of Voltaire".
__________________
ETTD
Everything Trump Touches Dies
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:55 AM   #13
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,721
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
What reddit really hates is high profile embarrassments and subreddits that troll outside out their own space.

r/againsthatesubredits regularly brags about brigading other subs and subs mentioned on there have had child and bestiality porn posted on them in an attempt to shut them down. I'd say that was pretty embarrassing for Reddit yet they're still here
jailbait was featured on primetime CNN. That's what it took for reddit to care.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:55 AM   #14
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
 
Butter!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,688
I hate Reddit, and I really hated that ******* sub, but banning it isn't going to do any good. Its people will just go somewhere else, somewhere more under-the-radar, where normies can't keep an eye on how extreme they're getting.

Just like that Nazi forum (IronMarch something-or-other) that went offline the same weekend lockdowns were declared, which has been scaring the hell out of me ever since I found out about it.

Also, Manger Douse is right about the scary misogyny subs. They're... disturbingly popular. Their prevalence is actually the primary reason I left Reddit for good. (That, and a lot of the big discussions were making me feel old.) But those types of subs do get banned sometimes, too. r/beatingwomen comes to mind, and I think RedPill and MGTOW have been quarantined for some time. Basically, Reddit doesn't do anything about trash subs until they lead to excessive negative publicity for the company. Get journalists to start bitching about r/pussypassdenied, and I bet it will be banned, same as r/jailbait was.

It wouldn't do any good, though. You can't ban attitudes. And every ban just encourages these creeps, it's like vitamins to them. I don't know what to do. I really don't.
__________________
- Formerly isissxn
Butter! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:57 AM   #15
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
 
Butter!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,688
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
jailbait was featured on primetime CNN. That's what it took for reddit to care.
Ninja'd!
__________________
- Formerly isissxn
Butter! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 08:59 AM   #16
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
jailbait was featured on primetime CNN. That's what it took for reddit to care.
And r/gendercritical?
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:00 AM   #17
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,721
Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I hate Reddit, and I really hated that ******* sub, but banning it isn't going to do any good. Its people will just go somewhere else, somewhere more under-the-radar, where normies can't keep an eye on how extreme they're getting.

Just like that Nazi forum (IronMarch something-or-other) that went offline the same weekend lockdowns were declared, which has been scaring the hell out of me ever since I found out about it.

Also, Manger Douse is right about the scary misogyny subs. They're... disturbingly popular. Their prevalence is actually the primary reason I left Reddit for good. (That, and a lot of the big discussions were making me feel old.) But those types of subs do get banned sometimes, too. r/beatingwomen comes to mind, and I think RedPill and MGTOW have been quarantined for some time. Basically, Reddit doesn't do anything about trash subs until they lead to excessive negative publicity for the company. Get journalists to start bitching about r/pussypassdenied, and I bet it will be banned, same as r/jailbait was.

It wouldn't do any good, though. You can't ban attitudes. And every ban just encourages these creeps, it's like vitamins to them. I don't know what to do. I really don't.
The best of reddit is in the small subreddits that have their own unique community and are largely insulated from the rest of the site. The big ones draw enough attention that the mainstream reddit community comes in, and that often means the objectionable types you mention come with it.

A small subreddit, with good moderators, can usually fight back the tides of garbage. There's still a few I like enough to visit the site regularly.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:01 AM   #18
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 55,988
Gosh, I'm not being too demanding. All I want is for other people to build and service a global publishing platform which I can use for free, and say whatever I want, including things that actively hurt the platform by driving away actual paying clients. Oh, and I'll need complete freedom from any and all legal, civil, and ethical violations rising out of what I say. That's "freedom of speech": someone else foots the bill and does the work, while I speak without paying for it. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

Anyone who disagrees with me must allow me to paint my rebuttal argument on their car, or they're suppressing my freedom of speech.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:02 AM   #19
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The best of reddit is in the small subreddits that have their own unique community and are largely insulated from the rest of the site. The big ones draw enough attention that the mainstream reddit community comes in, and that often means the objectionable types you mention come with it.

A small subreddit, with good moderators, can usually fight back the tides of garbage. There's still a few I like enough to visit the site regularly.
Anything more that around 10k members is a ****-show. I've seen technical comments I know to be 100% correct down voted by people mis-quoting Wikipedia
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:04 AM   #20
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Gosh, I'm not being too demanding. All I want is for other people to build and service a global publishing platform which I can use for free, and say whatever I want, including things that actively hurt the platform by driving away actual paying clients. Oh, and I'll need complete freedom from any and all legal, civil, and ethical violations rising out of what I say. That's "freedom of speech": someone else foots the bill and does the work, while I speak without paying for it. I think that's perfectly reasonable.

Anyone who disagrees with me must allow me to paint my rebuttal argument on their car, or they're suppressing my freedom of speech.
All I'm asking is for some consistency - To understand why gender critical subs have been shut down but ones about wank fantasies of stoving womens heads in are allowed. Why do you think that's the case?
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:07 AM   #21
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,721
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
All I'm asking is for some consistency - To understand why gender critical subs have been shut down but ones about wank fantasies of stoving womens heads in are allowed. Why do you think that's the case?
I think Reddit doesn't want to do the hard work of actually moderating content, and the squeeky wheels get the grease.

Moderating content is hard and thankless work (a nod to our friendly mods) that costs money. None of these tech companies want to pay to staff up enough to rigorously moderate content, so they adopt a policy that is obviously unevenly applied and relies on public outrage to enforce.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:09 AM   #22
mumblethrax
Species traitor
 
mumblethrax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,583
The problem is that we see these "platforms" as the public square, when in reality they're data farms that care far more about "engagement" than they do free speech. Because engagement make the data grow. Toxic users are good when they create engagement, bad when they actually start driving people away.

This isn't a problem that can be solved by the private sector, or even I think by regulation of the private sector. We shouldn't be relying on the private sector to run the public square at all.
mumblethrax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:12 AM   #23
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
 
Butter!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,688
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The best of reddit is in the small subreddits that have their own unique community and are largely insulated from the rest of the site. The big ones draw enough attention that the mainstream reddit community comes in, and that often means the objectionable types you mention come with it.

A small subreddit, with good moderators, can usually fight back the tides of garbage. There's still a few I like enough to visit the site regularly.
This is a common sentiment about Reddit, and I'm sure it's true. I never really had the patience to dig deep looking for good subs. I always ended up angry, for one reason or another, every time I visited the site. Finally, I admitted this to myself and just stopped visiting.

I think I may have had bad luck, too. I made the mistake of going into music subs for different genres, since I love many different genres of music. Turns out though, people in genre subs are drama SORCERORS. Gatekeeping, nitpicking, judgmental buttholes. "Ugh, this isn't vaporwave, it's synthwave, you obvious poser. Go back to your Beyonce remixes." **** off!

So yeah, I'm sure there's good there. It's a huge website. I just found the parts of the culture I encountered off-putting.
__________________
- Formerly isissxn

Last edited by Butter!; 30th June 2020 at 09:13 AM.
Butter! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:12 AM   #24
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I think Reddit doesn't want to do the hard work of actually moderating content, and the squeeky wheels get the grease.

Moderating content is hard and thankless work (a nod to our friendly mods) that costs money. None of these tech companies want to pay to staff up enough to rigorously moderate content, so they adopt a policy that is obviously unevenly applied and relies on public outrage to enforce.
Oh I get that - banning a sub is free. I just don't understand why I can jerk off to women being beaten up but a sub just for natal women is beyond the pale
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:21 AM   #25
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 55,988
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
All I'm asking is for some consistency - To understand why gender critical subs have been shut down but ones about wank fantasies of stoving womens heads in are allowed. Why do you think that's the case?
I don't know, ask the people who run and/or own the thing. It's their business, in both senses of the phrase. Perhaps if you accuse them of hypocrisy they'll bend over backwards to change their ways because they'd just be so upset some rando on the internet doesn't approve of them.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:27 AM   #26
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I don't know, ask the people who run and/or own the thing. It's their business, in both senses of the phrase. Perhaps if you accuse them of hypocrisy they'll bend over backwards to change their ways because they'd just be so upset some rando on the internet doesn't approve of them.
I did and got no reply so in lieu of any better suggestions I'm going with tech-bro misogyny - happy with that?
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:33 AM   #27
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 55,988
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
I did and got no reply so in lieu of any better suggestions I'm going with tech-bro misogyny - happy with that?
My emotional state isn't really driven by your hot take on current affairs, actually.

Interesting that you make a sexist assumption about who controls Reddit. Tech must necessarily equal male, eh?
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:37 AM   #28
pgwenthold
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,097
Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I hate Reddit, and I really hated that ******* sub, but banning it isn't going to do any good. Its people will just go somewhere else, somewhere more under-the-radar, where normies can't keep an eye on how extreme they're getting.
So? That's not why Reddit is "banning" it. They want it off their platform. If the ******** take it to a different platform, then Reddit is perfectly happy.

Don't think that Reddit is doing this as some sort of social conscience. They are doing it because it's best for Reddit.
pgwenthold is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:43 AM   #29
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 55,988
A Karen-centered one is now "invitation only, while we consider our options". Sounds like she got through to a manager!

I'd been reading that one occasionally lately just to see if it really was all white middle-aged women. It wasn't. There was a good deal of them, the "traditional Karen", but also plenty of men (and posts arguing what term to use for a male Karen) and other races.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:45 AM   #30
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,721
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
So? That's not why Reddit is "banning" it. They want it off their platform. If the ******** take it to a different platform, then Reddit is perfectly happy.

Don't think that Reddit is doing this as some sort of social conscience. They are doing it because it's best for Reddit.
What's best for reddit is a constantly moving target, for the reasons that Mumblethrax outlined. It certainly makes for a confusing policy.

Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
The problem is that we see these "platforms" as the public square, when in reality they're data farms that care far more about "engagement" than they do free speech. Because engagement make the data grow. Toxic users are good when they create engagement, bad when they actually start driving people away.
These tech companies are in constant tension of irreconcilable motives.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:46 AM   #31
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
My emotional state isn't really driven by your hot take on current affairs, actually.

Interesting that you make a sexist assumption about who controls Reddit. Tech must necessarily equal male, eh?
I don't give two hoots about you're emotional state - I'm asking if you're happy with my reasoning about why its acceptable to talk about brutality against women on Reddit, but not for women to have their own space - I'm a little concerned your seriously claiming that tech isn't overwhelmingly male though
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:54 AM   #32
Butter!
Rough Around the Edges
 
Butter!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,688
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
So? That's not why Reddit is "banning" it. They want it off their platform. If the ******** take it to a different platform, then Reddit is perfectly happy.

Don't think that Reddit is doing this as some sort of social conscience. They are doing it because it's best for Reddit.
I know, I said that same thing in a later post.

I was opining about my fears that once these groups go underground, they often get worse. I'm not really saying I expect anyone to do anything about that. I'm just scared of the world these days. This particular fixation got kicked off for me when this big Nazi forum went offline in March.

As an aside, why did you put "banning" in scare quotes? Is that not what they call it? Just curious.
__________________
- Formerly isissxn
Butter! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 09:54 AM   #33
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 55,988
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
I don't give two hoots about you're emotional state - I'm asking if you're happy with my reasoning
Happiness is an emotional state, surely? And it doesn't apply here because, as I said, my emotional states aren't driven by your opinions. If you're asking if I agree with your reasoning, you could say that instead. And no, I'm not. I disagree.

Quote:
about why its acceptable to talk about brutality against women on Reddit, but not for women to have their own space
You think talking is equivalent to action? Someone says something mean about women on Reddit, therefore women should be allowed to enact transphobic law in real life?

Quote:
- I'm a little concerned your seriously claiming that tech isn't overwhelmingly male though
But I didn't claim that. I merely called you out for making a sexist assumption.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:09 AM   #34
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Happiness is an emotional state, surely? And it doesn't apply here because, as I said, my emotional states aren't driven by your opinions. If you're asking if I agree with your reasoning, you could say that instead. And no, I'm not. I disagree.
Ok then how about "is my reasoning acceptable to you"

Quote:

You think talking is equivalent to action? Someone says something mean about women on Reddit, therefore women should be allowed to enact transphobic law in real life?
There's not enough straw in all the world for this


Quote:

But I didn't claim that. I merely called you out for making a sexist assumption.
Ok I'm sorry I assumed that because 75% people in tech are men and that tech company Reddit is owned by men that men made this decision to ban women only subs but not subs dedicated to violently raping then - happy now?
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:11 AM   #35
SuburbanTurkey
Illuminator
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 4,721
Originally Posted by Butter! View Post
I know, I said that same thing in a later post.

I was opining about my fears that once these groups go underground, they often get worse. I'm not really saying I expect anyone to do anything about that. I'm just scared of the world these days. This particular fixation got kicked off for me when this big Nazi forum went offline in March.

As an aside, why did you put "banning" in scare quotes? Is that not what they call it? Just curious.
All roads lead to terrorgram. I don't think there's much point to worrying about these people radicalizing, there's already ample avenues for that. If kicking them to the curb makes public spaces more enjoyable to the rest of us, it's a good move.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:18 AM   #36
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 55,988
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Ok then how about "is my reasoning acceptable to you"
I disagree with your conclusion. I don't know why you have such trouble accepting that.

Quote:
There's not enough straw in all the world for this
I apologize. I thought you said "why its acceptable to talk about brutality against women on Reddit, but not for women to have their own space" in which the verbs talk and have are set up as if they are equivalents in a comparison using but, asking me the question of why one is acceptable and the other isn't, as if they were opposing cases in a choice.

What's another way to read that question?

Quote:
Ok I'm sorry I assumed that because 75% people in tech are men and that tech company Reddit is owned by men that men made this decision to ban women only subs but not subs dedicated to violently raping then
Even if 99% of nurses are female it's sexist to assume any given nurse must be female.

Quote:
- happy now?
You seem very fixated on my emotional state. I am happy at the moment, thanks, as I have blueberries to eat and am exchanging dinosaur anecdotes with a friend via text. Not really your business but you seem interested for some reason.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:22 AM   #37
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,969
Originally Posted by RedStapler View Post
You know that reality has left you way behind when you cite some bloke from several hundred years ago and try to pin some relevancy on it

We shouldn't defend the right of free speech?
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:31 AM   #38
Manger Douse
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I disagree with your conclusion. I don't know why you have such trouble accepting that.
Well how about coming up with a better one? You clearly care enough to tell me mine is wrong


Quote:

I apologize. I thought you said "why its acceptable to talk about brutality against women on Reddit, but not for women to have their own space" in which the verbs talk and have are set up as if they are equivalents in a comparison using but, asking me the question of why one is acceptable and the other isn't, as if they were opposing cases in a choice.

What's another way to read that question?
All I've said is that I don't think women having their own space on reddit is nearly as bad as people who fantasise about brutally raping women, and just to clarify for everyone, when you say "being mean" you're talking about violent rape fantasies


Quote:
Even if 99% of nurses are female it's sexist to assume any given nurse must be female.
Which I've apologies for because I thought this was a casual forum, not a scientific paper

Quote:
You seem very fixated on my emotional state. I am happy at the moment, thanks, as I have blueberries to eat and am exchanging dinosaur anecdotes with a friend via text. Not really your business but you seem interested for some reason.


Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Ok then how about "is my reasoning acceptable to you"
Manger Douse is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:37 AM   #39
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 55,988
Originally Posted by Manger Douse View Post
Well how about coming up with a better one? You clearly care enough to tell me mine is wrong
I've already said I don't know why the people who run Reddit do what they do, it's their business, not mine. I don't think it's my burden to determine why other people do things. Nor is it a requirement to have a theory in order to disprove another theory. Nobody knows where all the missing dark matter in the universe is, that doesn't mean we can't dismiss the theory that Katy Perry is responsible for hiding it via witchcraft.

Quote:
All I've said is that I don't think women having their own space on reddit is nearly as bad as people who fantasise about brutally raping women, and just to clarify for everyone, when you say "being mean" you're talking about violent rape fantasies
I'm not talking about "violent rape fantasies", that's your characterization of Reddit threads. Regardless of what the talk is about, you still set talking as equivalent to action. You're just trying to avoid admitting that by exaggerating how bad the talking was.

Quote:
Which I've apologies for because I thought this was a casual forum, not a scientific paper
And yet you demand I explain things to your satisfaction, and that I come up with alternate theories before challenging yours.

eta: oh, and also? That's not a good defense to sexism. "I was just talking casually"? Really?
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

Last edited by TragicMonkey; 30th June 2020 at 10:38 AM.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2020, 10:38 AM   #40
pgwenthold
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,097
Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
We shouldn't defend the right of free speech?
Which has squat to do with Reddit deleting forums they don't like.
pgwenthold is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:46 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.