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4th December 2006, 10:35 PM | #1 |
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Discussion of the Pentagon taxi cab driver's impossible account.
I think this forum is ready for a nice indepth look at Lloyd's account.
For those that don't know Lloyd England was the taxicab driver whose car was allegedly speared by a light pole hit by flight 77 on 9/11. However his account is physically impossible. Conisder this a challenge to all jref'ers to demonstrate otherwise. My claim about the impossibility of Lloyd's account was made after months of research & debate, physical examination of the same style light pole that allegedly speared his cab, and interviews with Lloyd himself in person. Since this is my conclusion the logical assumption would be that Lloyd is lying. Why he would lie I do not know and I do believe there are possible scenarios where he would remain innocent or a victim. He could be under duress; his life, family, or livelyhood threatened. Or it's even possible he could be manipulated mentally and not even be aware that his story is untruthful. He exhibits traits of senility which would naturally leave him more vulnerable to mental manipulation. Bottom line.....without a doubt........his account is physically impossible. Let's review his claims. Here is the earliest published account that we have found: Lloyd, Survivors' Fund Project Survivor Story
Quote:
Naturally this is impossible since he was on route 27 about a few hundred feet from the Pentagon and the plane was reportedly traveling around 500 mph. This could be written off as misinterpretation by the author of the article and Lloyd has never made that claim again so we'll give Lloyd the benefit of the doubt on that one and leave it at that. But one fact that has never changed in his story is the fact that he stopped his car with the speared light pole STILL IN HIS CAR and he got help from somebody to remove it but fell down in the process. So when we look at these pictures we must understand that the force of a 500 mph 200,000 lb airliner did NOT cause the pole to land on the ground like this: Nope. According to Lloyd it had to be removed from the hood of his car with the help of a stranger who he claims didn't even bother to "say a word". Yet the hood remained unscratched. In this NBC interview Lloyd explains how he even had to "wrestle" with the car to stop it after it was speared by the pole: http://www.nbc4.com/news/8988021/detail.html I had a tour of the VDOT (Virginia Dept of Transportation) on two separate occasions and they showed me the same style poles . Here are specs: Lloyd says the top of the pole was bent and that this is the part of the pole that was in his car while the much heavier base end was sticking out of the window. You can see how the top part was bent in this pic: Here is an illustration that he drew to demonstrate for us how the pole was sitting in his car after he stopped and before he and the silent stranger removed it: The pole was 40 feet long and only the top part was severed off. It was 247lbs. There is no question that his claims are impossible so yes I believe it is likely that Lloyd is lying. But I couldn't know the circumstances behind his involvement so as I said he may very well be a victim. So for the record.......I believe 9/11 to be an inside job and I am certain at this point that operatives were used as planted witnesses at the Pentagon if only a few. Although I have my beliefs as to some that may have been complicit I have not outright accused anyone of this. Now that I know the plane flew on the north side of the citgo station I have been 100% verified in my belief that Lloyd's account did not happen as he claimed. I doubt I will never know for sure if he was merely a victim or an accomplice. |
4th December 2006, 10:43 PM | #2 |
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I missed the part where you proved the impossilbilty of his claims.
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4th December 2006, 10:44 PM | #3 |
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4th December 2006, 10:45 PM | #4 |
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That's because you are a coward. It's because you know you don't have any evidence but still want to play your childish games. You want to play your games but are to much of a coward to accept the consequences of your actions.
Grow up LT, for once be a man. Either you have something or you don't. If you have something then grow a pair, stand up and take your case to the police, DA, insurance companies etc. But you won't because you are a sniveling coward, playing little boy games in an adult world. You should be ashamed of yourself. |
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4th December 2006, 10:50 PM | #5 |
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Frankly, I'm astounded. I'll leave it to those playing our home game to guess how.
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4th December 2006, 10:51 PM | #6 |
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Wrong.
I have obtained extremely compelling evidence, and compiling it, and will present it to the world including the authorities. But since of course the 9/11 movement has been marginalized as "nuts" and the implications of this don't sit too well with people in position of "authority" it is necessary to make sure that it becomes as public information as possible. So we are preparing to make that a reality so the authorities will have no choice but to address it. So...... Care to address the topic of the thread? |
4th December 2006, 10:53 PM | #7 |
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Argument from personnal incredulity, plain and simple.
Strange things happen. |
4th December 2006, 10:53 PM | #8 |
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Still don't see it. Where's the gravity and physics come in?
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4th December 2006, 10:55 PM | #9 |
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I guess a bright boy like you will have no problems presenting the hard physics behind the following assertion. Lets see what you got.
Don't worry about dumbing it down for me, I've done quite a few traffic accident investigations. Some of them even included damage to objects such as bridges and light poles. Go right ahead and show me the numbers you ran to make this determination, I don't think I'll have a problem following your work. You did generate calculations supporting your following statement, right? After all, its a very clear statement, complete with bolding. You're not just asking questions anymore.
Originally Posted by Lyte Trip
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4th December 2006, 10:56 PM | #10 |
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Wowee...first time I've seen a pic of the pole that went through his windscreen. What are you going on about? There is quite a bend in the main pole that hit him! Why should it have smashed his hood? You research skills is lacken!
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4th December 2006, 10:57 PM | #11 |
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4th December 2006, 10:59 PM | #12 |
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Ah, yes, this is what we might call the putting hood argument from incredulity.
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4th December 2006, 11:05 PM | #13 |
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Like everyone else I cannot fathom how Lloyd's claim could be impossible.
Are you for real lighty? Is this what you wasted our time with? -Gumboot |
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4th December 2006, 11:06 PM | #14 |
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So that's it? That's your "in depth" look into this particular account?
No calculations, no expert opinion, no graphics, no actual science or physics? Wow, this is not looking good for you Lyte. |
4th December 2006, 11:06 PM | #15 |
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You guys can play dumb all you want.
The pole was close to 40 feet long. The distance from the back seat of the cab to the windshield is a maximum 7 feet or so. That leaves minumum between 20 and 30 feet of the much HEAVIER base end of a 247 lb pole to be sticking outside of the windshield. That means the dash was the fulcrum of an unbalanced see-saw with infinitely heavier and much longer end of the see-saw being miraculously suspended in mid-air over the hood like this: No calculations are necessary to understand where gravity would force the base end of the pole to go. Obviously it would have to touch the hood. |
4th December 2006, 11:07 PM | #16 |
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My god!
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4th December 2006, 11:08 PM | #17 |
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4th December 2006, 11:09 PM | #18 |
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The end of the pole was bent. You said so yourself. Seriously, are you for real? With drawings like this you HAVE to be KT. Or are all you people exactly the same? -Gumboot ETA. Just did a conversion on the weight of the pole. It's only 112kg. That's an average of a mere 2.4kg per foot of pole. that's not heavy, dude. |
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4th December 2006, 11:11 PM | #19 |
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4th December 2006, 11:13 PM | #20 |
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4th December 2006, 11:15 PM | #21 |
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To be honest I'm disappointed.
I somewhat foolishly hoped they'd actually produce something decent in the way of earth-shattering evidence, so we had something we could really look into. But if this is an example of the sort of "solid evidence" they use to discredit an eye witness, I have very little faith in their upcoming wind-breaker. Colour me disappointed. -Gumboot |
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4th December 2006, 11:15 PM | #22 |
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Heloooohoo! The poles fell in freeeefaaaaall!
And we all know thisssissssnotpossssiiiiiible! Wake up! You sceptic schmucks! |
4th December 2006, 11:16 PM | #23 |
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Lyte, seriously, what the ******* does a freaking pole flying inside a freaking cab driver's freaking car have to do with the freaking 9/11 conspiracy?
Seriously, man! either: a- it happened has he described it b- he lied for no freakin' reason c- the governement brainwashed him into believing it happened, for no freaking reason. Now pick the most logical assumption. |
4th December 2006, 11:17 PM | #24 |
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No but the passenger seat was not ripped even though it was allegedly knocked back by the pole.
Even if the back seat was ripped the notion that it could hold up the MUCH greater portion of a 40 foot 240 lb pole is quite ludicrous. And the passenger seat isn't knocked flat so that means the angle of the pole would be even closer to the hood. |
4th December 2006, 11:18 PM | #25 |
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Lyte,
I am so looking forward to showing this thread (and this post in particular) to my staff tomorrow. This was truely worth the wait. Feel free to respond to my earlier post at what ever time its convenient for you. I'll just assume that you do not possess even the most basic understanding of physics in the meantime. One other thing, what is your source for the VDOT light pole specs that you cite? |
4th December 2006, 11:19 PM | #26 |
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4th December 2006, 11:21 PM | #27 |
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Aside from the glaring little itch that I see absolutely no reason why the back seat would need to "hold up" the pole... The back seat of my car would perform without a hitch if a rugby player sat on it, and this taxi's seats look much nicer than the ones in my car. Seriously, let go of the "40ft 240lb" mantra. It's no more impressive than "270 degree turn". -Gumboot |
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4th December 2006, 11:21 PM | #28 |
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip
Are you calling Lloyd a liar? |
4th December 2006, 11:22 PM | #29 |
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Did you ever examine the seats, front and back? How about the inside of the roof?
NO? You are a sad investigator, sad! Columbo would smack you down, and he's like 90! Pfft...joke! |
4th December 2006, 11:22 PM | #30 |
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I may be the only one thinking this but...ok, let's pretend your version is true...so what? The Union of Washington Cabbies were also part of the conspiracy? If the 757 missed, was he set to plunge his nuclear tipped cab into the building? How does this affect, in any way, the grand conspiracy ideas involving everyone up to, and including, the Guardians of Oa?
Since you don't use any formulae or science, at least wrap it up in a nice little tale. |
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4th December 2006, 11:22 PM | #31 |
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4th December 2006, 11:23 PM | #32 |
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Why would you care if you find the post so comical? You clearly find there to be sound logic in my point if you are curious about the source of the posted specs. The VDOT. I was there with Russell Pickering the first time who obtained the data from them direct and created that image. I already addressed your post. My see-saw analogy renders any need for "calculations" moot. Unless you don't believe in gravity. |
4th December 2006, 11:24 PM | #33 |
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4th December 2006, 11:25 PM | #34 |
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4th December 2006, 11:25 PM | #35 |
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So the government conspired not only to kill 3000 Americans, but also to smash this one cab driver's windshield.
Yeah, makes perfect sense... |
4th December 2006, 11:26 PM | #36 |
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Quote:
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4th December 2006, 11:27 PM | #37 |
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No, can you provide me with a quote where he stated that the pole speared the windshield head-on?
Take a look at these two photos. Since the pole was likely fairly heavy, they would've let it fall once it was clear of the car. If the pole hit head on, they had to have carried it over to where its laying in the photo. That makes no sense. You can also see how the windshield is matted down as if the pole were laying on it sideways.. http://911debunker.livejournal.com/ |
4th December 2006, 11:27 PM | #38 |
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4th December 2006, 11:28 PM | #39 |
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Lloyd himself.
I posted the image that he drew. And you can see him describe it in detail in this interview: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...echnique&hl=en Watch the "comic relief" portion to get Russell Pickering's reaction about it all on the way home. |
4th December 2006, 11:28 PM | #40 |
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Great post apathoid.
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