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11th July 2017, 03:11 AM | #441 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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11th July 2017, 03:52 AM | #442 |
Lackey
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If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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11th July 2017, 04:16 AM | #443 |
Maledictorian
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Yes he can.
If politicians want to contrast their current position to their "civilian" life they say: "When I was a private citizen". I know that Trump keeps things vague, intentionally, but it is never wrong to point out when politicians try to appropriate credibility from the military for themselves. |
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Dont blame me. I voted for Kodos. |
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11th July 2017, 04:44 AM | #444 |
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The key is you have to guess at what he was trying to say.
Suppose I post: "For years, even as a "Republican", I took exception to some GOP positions." What does that tell you about why I chose to put Republican in scare quotes? Not much. Often, careless typing reveals careless thinking, and I think after reading a post like Tripump's that one would not be out of line to remind him that the office of the president is still a civilian position. |
11th July 2017, 04:46 AM | #445 |
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11th July 2017, 06:04 AM | #446 |
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Quote:
Wow what if America didn't elect the incredibly unpopular, unlikable and incompetent President that Trump is? Trump trying to "help" Los Angeles could quite likely end up doing more harm than good. |
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We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann |
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11th July 2017, 06:22 AM | #447 |
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11th July 2017, 10:32 AM | #448 |
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11th July 2017, 07:35 PM | #450 |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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11th July 2017, 07:43 PM | #451 |
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You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara. |
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11th July 2017, 07:51 PM | #452 |
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Good grief. $1.6 billion for something that nobody with any professional expertise in the subject thinks will do any good. And that's just a start on the money it would take. Meanwhile, there isn't enough to provide adequate healthcare for Americans who aren't already wealthy, but enough to give tax cuts to the ones who are. This isn't a Republican Party that's going to lift a finger to stop Trump, no matter what he does. Heck with shooting someone on 5th Ave. He could bugger small children on the Capital steps a couple times a week and they'd find ways to excuse it. |
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"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." "Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation." |
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11th July 2017, 10:16 PM | #453 |
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11th July 2017, 10:23 PM | #454 |
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11th July 2017, 10:49 PM | #455 |
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In any sane universe I'd agree in an instant, but Trump seems to have some sort of deal-with-the-devil type of resilience. I think he will eventually go down because he's the type to keep pushing his luck, but I'm not sure that even the most recent Russian issues will be enough.
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11th July 2017, 11:21 PM | #456 |
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12th July 2017, 12:33 AM | #457 |
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I think you're being over optimistic
We haven't even got close to Peak Trump because he has the overwhelming support (85% and rising) of the GOP and the'll get the tax cuts and deregulation they crave while Trump's rhetoric keeps his base happy. The GOP simply do not care if Trump colluded with the Russians or if he gives away state secrets left, right and centre so long as they get an extra dollar in their pockets. Even if irrefutable evidence were found of Trump wrongdoing it will simply be swept under the carpet, presented as fake news or written off as "that's just Donald". There will be no impeachment even if there was solid proof of Trump or the campaign colluding with the Russians, Trump enriching himself whilst in office, Trump or members of his close team Trump gets away with this kind of thing because he is the President that close enough to 50% of the U.S. electorate want and enough of the more than 50% who don't want him are either inured to his actions and/or have other things they have to do to keep body and soul together to fight it. |
12th July 2017, 12:37 AM | #458 |
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Unfortunately, The Don is correct. Trump is above the law until such time he is impeached. Since impeachment is a political process, nothing will happen unless the GOP sees a political threat. Because of the gerrymandering and voter suppression that happens, they aren't in any political danger.
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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12th July 2017, 03:28 AM | #459 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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12th July 2017, 03:30 AM | #460 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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12th July 2017, 03:31 AM | #461 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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12th July 2017, 03:41 AM | #462 |
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....and the ground is already being prepared by calling this the biggest political witch hunt in history*. Any calls for prosecution will be written off as a partisan attack on the President.
Of course how they can say that in light of the Starr enquiry into Bill Clinton and the never ending Benghazi investigations into Hillary is another thing. |
12th July 2017, 03:48 AM | #463 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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12th July 2017, 07:03 AM | #464 |
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If the Don is correct, there are two courses of action:
1. Win back Congress in 2018, provided GOP election cheating isn't sufficient to stop it. 2. Overthrow the government by force of arms. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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12th July 2017, 07:30 AM | #465 |
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There are all kinds of other options including just accepting that Donald Trump represents 40%-45% of the U.S. electorate and only a tiny proportion of the remaining 55%-60% are sufficiently exercised by his performance as President to do anything other than voice their displeasure online, vote against the GOP when the time comes and say how little they like him in opinion polls.
I think that Trump will serve two full terms and will use that time to completely roll back all of Obama's legacy and deliver huge, deficit busting, tax breaks for the very rich whilst removing all kinds of consumer, worker and environmental protections. In 2024 America will face a fork in the road. They will either say that this is the way they want to continue to be - in which case expect more of the same for an other 4, 8, 12 years (but eventually the pendulum will swing back) or they will say "enough is enough" and we'll look back and see Trump's presidency as the final death throes of the angry white men. Most likely the US will continue to muddle on. The federal model means that the blue states can continue to be as "modern" as they like whilst the red states slip back to segregation, rivers on fire and modern indentured labour. |
12th July 2017, 07:32 AM | #466 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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12th July 2017, 07:33 AM | #467 |
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The problem with your scenario is gerrymandering and voter suppression. If Trump completes two terms, chances are it will be all but impossible for the Democrats to gain any form of federal power again. Then the US has become Russia.
That is why I say there are two courses of action. Allowing Trump to sit two terms isn't an option if you want to retain US democracy. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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12th July 2017, 07:34 AM | #468 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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12th July 2017, 07:38 AM | #469 |
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Disenfranchise or perhaps just turn people off the whole Democracy experiment.
This is why IMO it's vitally important that the Democratic Party find some policies which are actively attractive so that people who might otherwise stay at home and bitch about President Trump and the GOP will actually go out and vote in 2018. It's also why the Democratic Party needs to find a Presidential candidate with some va-va-voom and not a cardboard cutout with a spotless past whose reaction to every situation has been focus grouped to death. Bill Clinton and Obama have star appeal. Dukakis, Mondale, Gore, Kerry and 2016 Hillary didn't IMO (OTOH she may have had a few years ago before decades of GOP attacks). |
12th July 2017, 07:41 AM | #470 |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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12th July 2017, 07:47 AM | #471 |
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The Senate and Presidency are free from gerrymandering - though they are affected by voter suppression. If the Democratic Party actually manage through policy and/or personality to get people to turn out and vote in droves then voter suppression becomes a marginal issue IMO because the levels it would have to happen on a state level would be unacceptable even to a GOP leaning SCOTUS.
Gerrymandering is a bigger issue particularly because it means that the GOP controls the House but then again, as has been pointed out to me, with a big enough swing it actually works against the GOP. Of course the thing to remember is that gerrymandering and voter suppression only works because the GOP represents the views of very nearly 50% of the US population. The Christian Fundamentalists and Tea Party nutters took control of the GOP because there are a very large number of people who feel (I hesitate to say think) that way. IMO the U.S. isn't the way it is with the government it has because of some GOP or Trump-led conspiracy. It's because tens of millions of ordinary Americans actually want it that way (as bizarre as that seems to a (soon to be ex- ) European like myself). |
12th July 2017, 07:51 AM | #472 |
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Again I feel you are vastly overstating GOP support. It's nowhere near 50 percent of the population. Remember that about 50 percent of the population don't even vote. Of voters, the GOP has about 40% apparently locked in support. Despite this, they manage to keep control of the entire federal government as well as most state governments.
All in all, less than 25% of the US population are GOP voters. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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12th July 2017, 07:52 AM | #473 |
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12th July 2017, 07:54 AM | #474 |
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12th July 2017, 07:57 AM | #475 |
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12th July 2017, 08:00 AM | #476 |
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Maybe 5% or so.
Remember, the GOP hasn't won the popular vote since 1988. They rely entirely on the electoral college, and they aid that by voter suppression. My point is, the unreachable people who will keep voting GOP even against their self interests are a minority, but they give the GOP the power to dismantle US democracy, as we can see happening. 2018 is the fork in the road. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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12th July 2017, 08:01 AM | #477 |
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12th July 2017, 08:26 AM | #478 |
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What leads you to this conclusion ?
Opinion polls show support for Donald Trump at around 40%, not 40% of people who voted but 40% of the U.S. electorate. Apart from 2004 that is To win the election, the Democratic Party need to field some good policies and/or candidates. That should tempt some or all of the 45% who didn't vote to come out and vote for them which should more than offset any GOP attempts at voter suppression. If they stick with the "same old, same old" then they'll end up being disappointed. |
12th July 2017, 08:30 AM | #479 |
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Haven't you learned anything from the last election, you certainly don't need coherent policies to be elected in the US. We are seeing that clearly on the republican health care bill. They can't get anything passed because their only policy was that if obama was for it they were against it. That is pretty hard to write into laws now that he is out of office.
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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12th July 2017, 08:30 AM | #480 |
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Voting patterns.
I'm wrong about this. Not all polls are likely or registered voters. They polls don't take into account the latest developments in the Russia scandal tho. True, forgot about that. That was, however, a reelection at war time. Not just they. But you are right. They need someone charismatic and with good ideas. However, don't discount the "not Trump" part. Trump is rapidly becoming toxic. |
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Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 |
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