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4th August 2017, 03:07 AM | #241 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Do read the deposition filed against Raff's attorney Maori.
During a live ongoing trial barristers are not supposed to meet with court appointed expert witnesses because it contravenes bar standards. Vecchiotti even commissioned a DVD for the defence eyes' only and was almost arrested by the carabonieri. She appealed to Hellmann, the judge in the relevant case, and even he ordered her to make a copy for the court and for the prosecution. Can you not see how bent it is for a court appointed witness to collude with one party? The standard protocol during a trial - especially when that court appointed witness (or any witness) is giving their testimony - is that ALL exchanges MUST be in front of the other party and of the court. It's called 'disclosure'. Maori wining and dining Conti & Vecchiotti during the hearing is a clear breach of ethics and bar standards. |
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4th August 2017, 03:46 AM | #242 |
Muse
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I have never heard the claim Raffaele left his fingerprints on the side of the door facing Meredith's room until Vixen made the claim. Raffaele leaving his fingerprints has never been claimed by the prosecution as Londonjohn has rightly pointed. If the case against Amanda and Raffaele was such a slam dunk why is that a decade after Meredith's murder Vixen has to resort to arguing that evidence existed which was never claimed by the prosecution. If the prosecution have a slam dunk case you should have never have to resort to arguing your case on the basis of evidence never presented by the prosecution because there should be plenty of genuine evidence to base your arguments on.
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4th August 2017, 03:53 AM | #243 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Do have a close look at the police photo no.72. Turn it 180° upright and tell us what you see? Those of us with normal perception can see it is the metal plate of the inside edge of the door. The fingerprint on the outside door facing the corridor is no. 68. |
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4th August 2017, 04:03 AM | #244 |
Penultimate Amazing
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OK fair enough, it was in his Prison Diary dated 18 Nov 2007:
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Like Amanda and Rudy he will have been well aware his diary would be read by prison officers and police. |
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4th August 2017, 07:07 AM | #245 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Now we are getting somewhere. Rather than your former continual repetition that the court found it as factual, you are now letting go of that by going down the road the Marasca-Bruno panel eventually did in exonerating the pair in 2015. Even you now concede that it is an inference - like the original judge, Massei, did when he wrote that there were no forensics to back up this claim, or like Stefanoni who conceded that one cannot (by definition) know the source of trace-DNA.
In summarizing what the Nencini court had in front of it, the M/B panel said it was manifestly illogical to assume that this hypothetical (that Knox had blood on her hands) had anything to do with the murder. Even if she'd had, then she must have acquired it at a time later than the murder and in another part of the cottage.... For the umpteenth time, this is what M/B wrote in exonerating the pair. The "attribution" mentioned, is the notion that she'd had blood on her hands.... Please also note that the spuclation that she'd been "deflect(ing) suspicion from herself" is also part of this hypothetical, which is included in the phrase, "if all the above is accepted". So like you faking a photoshop showing that the fingerprint Fr. 72 was Raffaele's, the guilt-PR campaign continues. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 07:12 AM | #246 |
Penultimate Amazing
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If the case against the pair was such a slam dunk, why does Vixen herself have to provide a false-photoshop of what she says is the evidence?
Couldn't the prosecution itself have faked the evidence back in 2009? Why does Vixen need to do it for them almost 2 1/2 years after the exonerations? |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 07:34 AM | #247 |
Penultimate Amazing
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This (here) thread on ISF right now gets about 500 hits per day. Continuation 25 averaged 1,250 hits per day for the 3 1/2 months of its life.
In contrast, the hits these continuations received max'ed out around the times of the major court activity: Hellmann acquittal (2011) - 6800 hits per daySince those peaks ISF has lost more than 90%-93% of its traffic in relation to these trials. My guess is that all of the web-presences have gone the same way - PMF.ORG recently closed. It's amusing that anyone, these days, would appeal to traffic-numbers in relation to these trials. Perhaps the latest "bump" was people who'd attended the recent Westside Bar Association talk on wrongful convictions that Knox attended...... But proof that this is a media-driven case is that when major, world-wide media pick this up (CNN, BBC, etc...) the hits here increase - and then inevitably just subside. The sad truth? It's just us and Vixen generating the hits these days, not lurkers trying to piece together a puzzle. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 10:29 AM | #248 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Start using some logic and just some plain old common sense. IF Sollecito's fingerprints had been found on the INSIDE of the door, it would have been slam dunk evidence that he had been IN the room...something that he has denied repeatedly. IF his fingerprints were on the INSIDE of the door, the prosecution would have been all over that like flies on ... well...you know what. Where is this crucial piece of evidence ever introduced into any of the trials? Hint: it never was because no such fingerprint exists. When is the penny going to drop, Vix? Why can you not accept you are wrong about this? |
4th August 2017, 10:38 AM | #249 |
Penultimate Amazing
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This is as crazy as it gets.
Fr. 72 is situated CLEARLY on the outer part of the door, even in the fake-Wiki's pic of it, noted by Vixen here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6#post11943446 Note that the pic shows the victim's door as it sits while OPEN. When closed, Fr. 72 is on the hall-side of the door. Fr. 72 is only "in" the victim's room, when the door is swung-open into the room!!!!!!!!! This is the truly crazy part of the guilt-PR effort; their continual posting of stuff that actually REFUTES what they are claiming. It makes us slightly less crazy, but crazy nonetheless that we get hooked by it. Every. Single. Time. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 10:41 AM | #250 |
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Vixen, let's recap here. YOU claimed Raffaele's prints were on the inside and inside edge of Meredith's door and you suggest us idiots go read Giunta's testimony. Thinking that perhaps I had this wrong I did exactly that. I was then kind enough to copy/paste that testimony directly from the Massei trial transcripts. Since you're apparently to dense to read it the first time I have included it here once again. Perhaps if I post it enough times it will sink in.
So, without further ado, here's the actual court transcript; *** Giunta: We can repeat it, I'm 17 - we said what reliefs are - 5 fragments at Sollecito Raffaele are the relief 12), we can even say the annular and left little finger, it was found ... Comodi: I know it, but not as much as I do. Here, where has this fingerprint been found? Giunta: Inside the bedroom door behind the living room with kitchenette on the ground floor. Massei:In the bedroom ... Giunta: The ground floor is the only floor we have also done because ... Massei:Excuse me, what bedroom? Comodi: And so, in short, the famous edge of the Mezzetti room, the Mezzetti room door, right? Giunta: 12) should be that of the Mezzetti. Then the 68), the left palm, the outside face of the victim's bedroom door. Comodi: Outside? Giunta: External face, then external face access. Comodi: Yup. Giunta: Pad 70) left thumb, victim's bedroom outdoor door side and 1'86, pad 86) left palm at fridge door. Comodi: Well, these are the ones that have been attributed to your Solicitors by your colleagues? Giunta: Exactly, 5 fragments etc, etc. 1 fragment was attributed to Knox, and it is the relief 103) the right glass index found on the kitchen sink. *** To summarize; (12) Laura's bedroom door (2 fragments) (68) Outside face of Meredith's door (70) Outside face of Meredith's door (86) Refrigerator Let's do the math.. 2 (12) + 1 (68) + 1 (70) + 1 (86) = 5 fragments, as testified. Not convinced, go look at the color coded 'prints' diagram. Raffaele's are the ones marked in magenta.. two on the OUTSIDE of Meredith's door, one on the fridge, one on Laura's door (which count as two because two fingers were identified). That's five. FIVE... 5! - as testified to. Unfortunately there is no crayon option for this board or I'd try to make this even more clear for you. Now, before you post again and further prove your inability to comprehend even the most obvious facts of the case, even when they are laid out in a fashion simple enough for a child to get, I suggest you go find a friend and have them read thru this and explain it to you. Cause right now you are doing yourself no favors in the area of credibility. BTW, you continue to share with us a photo of Fr. 72 as if that's relevant. Please cite where Giunta said this was Raffaele's. It's not in the court testimony and it's not on the color coded chart (even though the two magenta dots are incorrectly labeled 72 then are clearly on the outside of the door and Giunta's court testimony identifies these as Fr. 68 and Fr. 70). And as many others have pointed out, had Raffaele's prints been found on the inner side of Meredith's door it's rather obvious that the prosecution would have made a big deal of this yet it never came up in ANY trial, EVER. Hello, McFly!!?? |
4th August 2017, 11:00 AM | #251 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It would not be so bad if Vixen did not adopt the superior tone, as in:
..... and then when one actually DOES accept the challenge they find that Vixen has not justified her superior tone. Truth is - guilters are trying to fabricate a case. When their claims are checked out, even at the links they themselves provide, one can see this fabrication in the raw. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 11:33 AM | #252 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Fingerprints: Correction
Fingerprints: Correction
Having reviewed Giunta and Iacuttio's testimony, the text on The Murder of Meredith Kercher com webpage has now been corrected where it said nos. 68 and 72 were attributed to Raffale Sollecito, to show the latter as "unattributed". The text reads: "There are two unattributable prints on the desk (Fr. 63) and two on the door (Fr.72) (in green)" We can remain confident that The Murder of Meredith Kercher website strives to be as objectively accurate as humanly possible. |
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4th August 2017, 11:45 AM | #253 |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 11:49 AM | #254 |
Philosopher
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Thank you for the link.
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Do you see the logical fallacy in the argument you give 1) Assuming Knox participated in murder she would have been spattered in blood 2) Since she was spattered in blood she would have washed it off 3) Since she washed off the blood she would have deposited her own DNA at the same time as depositing the blood from the victim in the basin 4) Since the DNA of Knox and the victim were co-located this is proof she participated in the murder |
4th August 2017, 12:12 PM | #255 |
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And on a Friday no less. I am impressed. Can I pick the next "objectively accurate" failure to fix? Please.. please!
In case there was any confusion concerning the wording (or translation of wording) from Giunta's testimony regarding Fr. 70 ("Pad 70) left thumb, victim's bedroom outdoor door side"), here is what was documented for Fr. 66-71 in Giunta's final report; https://www.internationalskeptics.co...ictureid=11347 At the bottom it reads; "I frammenti di impronte papillari contraddistiniticon i numeri da 66 a 71 evidenziati sulla faccia esterna della porta della camera da letto" Which translates to; "The fragments of papillary imprints marked with numbers from 66 to 71 highlighted on the outer face of the bedroom door" |
4th August 2017, 12:46 PM | #256 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Citations) for the highlighted part?
I believe you are referring to the DVD made by the independent experts showing the collection of evidence by the police and errors therein. I can find no evidence that it was 1) made for the defense's eyes only or 2) Vecchiotti was almost arrested by the carabinieri, 3) she appealed to Hellmann or 4) Hellmann, as a result of this appeal, ordered a copy made for the court and prosecution. What I did find was that 1) the DVD was appropriately filed with the Perugia Court of Appeals, 2) that the carabinieri were sent by the prosecution to seize the DNA from Vecchiotti but could not as they had no warrant to do so, and 3) that the prosecutor applied to get a copy of the DVD from Hellmann and he granted it.
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Your spin on this was very misleading. Police did not "almost arrest" Vecchiotti nor was she colluding with the defense. The police tried to seize the DVD without a warrant for it. She was not "forced" to give a copy to the prosecutor; the prosecutor requested a copy and it was granted by Hellmann. Once again: Citation(s) for the highlighted part? |
4th August 2017, 12:51 PM | #257 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Maybe those trying to fabricate a case against AK and RS, including fabricating cases against those who ever found them innocent or discredited the false-evidence against them.....
..... will find themselves able to also correct the record with regard to these claims of being "almost arrested" (whatever that means) against Vecchiotti. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 01:09 PM | #258 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Only after being dragged kicking and screaming into reality and after so much evidence of error has been presented that to continue would be verging on insanity.
Now, how about fixing the "mixed blood" nonsense on TMofMK? Mixed Blood / DNA
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4th August 2017, 02:13 PM | #259 |
Penultimate Amazing
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4th August 2017, 02:23 PM | #260 |
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4th August 2017, 02:28 PM | #261 |
Penultimate Amazing
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__________________
In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 02:42 PM | #262 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"OK...fair enough"; she still can't say "I was wrong".
Note that she says TMofMK has corrected the text but she never says "I was wrong" And then tries to laud them for their honesty. She claimed Battistelli said something he never said. I don't remember what it was. I can't keep track of all the false claims. |
4th August 2017, 03:19 PM | #263 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Oh, my! I've found the smoking gun regarding Maori colluding with the (not so) independent forensics experts! A frequent contributor to TJMK, whose credibility is unassailable, gave this as evidence citing PMF as the source:
Quote:
Even in this alleged (but unfound) quote from Nadeau's book, journalists were hardly seeing Maori "wining and dining" Conti and Vecchiotti. |
4th August 2017, 03:20 PM | #264 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Deleted. Duplicate post.
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4th August 2017, 03:47 PM | #265 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Yes, that was it.
What I don't get - my opinion only - is the wreckless disregard for things factual. All of us, me included, have made or fair share of mistakes, or have aired assumptions which turned out to be just air. As I posted before, one of the advantages of private PMs with people of diametrically (and sometimes heated) opposed points of view is that there actually tend to be fewer examples of wreckless disregard for basic facts. Let me put one out there - I still do not "get" why journalists would impugn some sort of corruption about Vecchiotti, just because she'd been seen chatting with Maori or even having a glass of wine with him at a coffee bar. It would not bother me in the least if Stefanoni had similarly been seen chatting with Mignini, or if members of the RIS Carabinieri at the Nencini trial had briefed either side about what they found with a retesting of the knife with Sample 36I. I don't get it? I also don't get why it is allowed to mushroom into gigantic claims that "Vecchiotti is a criminal", etc. etc., said with no reference to the tenuousness of Barbie Nadeau's original claims - which turn out perhaps not even to have been her claims. It's the wanton wrecklessness of it all. |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 04:25 PM | #266 |
Penultimate Amazing
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One last kick at the cat.
The wrecklessness is also in the way they treat the world-renowned experts who have waded in on this case. Vecchiotti is perhaps only a nationally recognized Italian forensic-DNA expert but it is positively ludicrous the way they criminalize and defame her for her expert opinions on this case. Then there is Dr. Peter Gill, Saul Kassin, Steve Moore, Ron Hendry - agreed, not all of whom are internationally recognized. It's not just that guilters claim those people might be mistaken..... ..... they accuse them of being criminals or incompetent, all the while while not advancing one expert of their own - save for Patrizia Stefanoni - to vouch for the work. That's just wreckless - and strategically alienating. I mean, who are they trying to attract to their point of view? Finally - is the fake-Wiki really still touting "mixed blood"? For Pete's sake, even Massei's court in 2009 discounted that. 2009!!! That claim is based on claiming to know the origin of trace-DNA found at a scene where one would habitually be expected to find such a thing - a bathroom the person had used for weeks - and then claim to know the source of such trace-DNA; when by definition the source cannot be known. The remaining guilters are still arguing what Mignini and Comodi argued in 2008. Mignini and Comodi won in 2009, but judging from even the appeal document they themselves wrote for the coming Hellmann trial in 2011, you'd have thought they'd lost! MOO is that that is because even Massei disbelieved major prosecution stuff - like mixed blood. This is 2017. Most of the fake-Wiki has not been editted since 2014. The pair have been exonerated - 2 1/2 years ago. It looks like the exoneration in 2015 took the wind out of the sails of most guilters.... ..... so why is ANYONE citing the fake-Wiki? |
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In a thread titled "Who Killed Meredith Kercher?", the answer is obvious. Rudy Guede and no one else. |
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4th August 2017, 05:58 PM | #267 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I think it's pretty obvious why the PGP have to have claim corruption in regards to C&V: to negate their professional findings. Just as with Amanda and Raff, they have to be attacked on a personal level. They must be shown to be dishonest, lying, morally inferior characters. But they must also be attacked on a professional level despite the fact that the balance of opinion of other forensic experts is, by far, in agreement with C & V. We can be absolutely sure that, if they had agreed with Stefanoni, we'd be reading from the PGP how professional, upright, and competent they were .
I cannot say with 100% certainty that the alleged Nadeau quote is not accurate as I do not have the book. All I can say is that I most certainly could not find it anywhere else except the one source I cited and that the Amazon "Look inside" feature returned 0 results. |
4th August 2017, 11:21 PM | #268 |
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4th August 2017, 11:24 PM | #269 |
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4th August 2017, 11:29 PM | #270 |
Penultimate Amazing
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The Murder of Meredith Kercher webpage was updated fairly recently with a whole batchload more court documents and transcripts. It is an excellent library of source material for journalists, lawyers and anybody interested in the facts of the case and not the grotesque Trumpesque circus spin on it we get from the US fake media and the PIP. |
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5th August 2017, 12:13 AM | #271 |
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Probably a truly neutral observer with a reasonable understanding of criminal evidence could discern that the case against the students is weak at best and closer to a baseless witch hunt, just using TMOMK as a source.
The only thing that might throw them for a loop is some of the prosecution's more baseless claims that TMOMK passes on unfiltered. Like a female's alleged bloody shoeprint in the bedroom. There one only needs to look at a photo of it to see that it is clearly Rudy's shoeprint (which is why I suspect no photo of what should be an incontrovertible end to the PIP position is shown). Of course one could find it if they dug through the prosecution's reports linked on the site. The main obstacle the prosecution has to overcome is giving a compelling and conclusive reason why a crime scene covered in the abundant forensic traces a known knife carrying burglar requires the addition of two random accomplices that have no connection to said burglar. People will be looking for things like, forensic evidence against Amanda positively timestamped to the time of the crime, instead they will get blood negative DNA negative stains. They will be looking for text and phone exchanges between Amanda and Rudy, or witnesses that saw them together, and instead they will get Rudy's unprompted confession that he was there alone and images of him snooping around the cottage not long before the murder on CCTV alone. None of those things are an issue for you PGP, because you take Amanda's guilt as a starting axiom and have let cognitive bias prevent you from comprehending how a compelling case against Rudy hurts the prosecution. But they're significant barriers for convincing rationally minded folks. Admittedly, that leaves plenty out there for the taking. |
5th August 2017, 12:32 AM | #272 |
Penultimate Amazing
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How sick is it for someone who wrote sick rape/murder fantasies and convicted of falsely accusing Patrick Lumumba of the rape and murder she and Raff were found guilty of in the merits trial and appeal (annulled by the Supreme Court on non-legal grounds) to get to write for the LA TIMES about other sick criminals.
As per usual Knox turns the story round to one about herself, so no change to the narcissism there, then. Interestingly, she also championed the cause of swimmer Brock Turner found 'dry humping' a woman in a coma on public ground. I suspect Party Rock boyfriend, Chris Robinson, had a hand in helping her to write it and iron out the illiterate grammatical errors and spelling gaffes. Pretentiously, she writes that whilst Michelle Carter - who urged her boyfriend to kill himself, which he then did - whilst 'morally and philosophically wrong' was 'unlawfully convicted'. Really? In which way is it 'philosophically' wrong? Just big words for form over substance. In fact there is plenty of philosophical literature on suicide: Hamlet, The Savage God; The Myth of Sisyphus, and so on and so forth. Who is Amanda Knox to say it is 'philosophically wrong' but not illegal? Someone who writes about her 'best truth' and things her 'head' is 'confusedly' telling her 'in blurry images'. Fact is, it might be considered 'morally wrong' for someone who is a Christian, but Knox is a rabid atheist who frets she may never become President as she would be unable to swear on the Bible at the inauguration. What planet is this being on? Legally: unfortunately for Knox suicide or aiding suicide was illegal in many western countries even up until the sixties, with 'assisted suicide' still being unlawful, with some countries, such as Switzerland allowing it for medical reasons in special clinics. The fact the prosecutor in Carter's case had a criminal statute against her and there was jurisdiction to hear her case, means it cannot have been 'unlawful' to convict her, whether or not you agree with the charge. How much was Knox paid for leeching off the murder of her roommate? Enquiring minds need to know. What was LA TIMES thinking? |
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5th August 2017, 12:38 AM | #273 |
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5th August 2017, 12:58 AM | #274 |
Penultimate Amazing
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th August 2017, 01:10 AM | #275 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Vixen, you do know that: 1) there was never a single piece of credible, reliable evidence that Knox (or Sollecito) participated in the murder of Meredith Kercher; 2) the very high likelihood is that Knox and Sollecito were exactly where they always claimed they were (barring the unlawfully coercive police interrogations of 5/6 November 2007....) - alone together in Sollecito's apartment - throughout the entire evening and night of the murder; 3) all of the known evidence is entirely consistent with Guede acting alone? Just for your information, like. Cos you seem to have some sort of unsupported and emotionally-charged vendetta against both Knox and Sollecito. Why is that, Vixen? |
5th August 2017, 01:14 AM | #276 |
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5th August 2017, 01:16 AM | #277 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I know! Terrible, isn't it Vixen?! The entire editorial staff of a major US daily newspaper seems to have been hoodwinked by the lies pumped out by the Gogerty Marriott PR supertanker and the nasty PIPs!!!! Time for a concerted PGP email campaign to the LA Times methinks, Vixen! |
5th August 2017, 01:46 AM | #278 |
Penultimate Amazing
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As I'm not as obsessive about Ms Knox as some people apparently are, I was unaware of her championing the cause of Brock Turner, which I found rather surprising. So I went looking for what she'd written about the case. It's this, in case anybody else here didn't know:
https://www.westsideseattle.com/west...irecting-focus I'll let you read it for yourself and decide if you think "championing the cause of Brock Turner" is what this article actually does. |
5th August 2017, 02:12 AM | #279 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Anti-suicide is a Christian thing is it not? In my local church, suicides (and strangely, murder victims and fallen 'Reds') are buried to one side separate from the rest of the dear departed congregation.
I have no idea what other religions believe but I know Albert Camus was quite sympathetic to the idea. |
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5th August 2017, 02:21 AM | #280 |
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