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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , church scandals , George Pell , roman catholic church , sex scandals

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Old 3rd April 2019, 11:17 PM   #1321
Filippo Lippi
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Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
The RCC in Rome isn't exactly the same as Latin America or African areas because they allow local woo to exist and become part of the celebration big faith. It is the secret of RCC success.

Islam comes in and suppresses local woo which isn't exactly endearing in a missionary.

In a place where eating guinea pigs was a life sustaining need the missionaries were able to overlook that detail to have living converts. It wasn't a hard choice.
Islam allows local woo to exist. I understand that female genital mutilation isn't in any of the holy books, but a lot of muslim communities do practice it. Historically, Islam morphed a great deal to accommodate zorastrians and their beliefs when the persian-sassanid empire was absorbed
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Old 4th April 2019, 03:17 AM   #1322
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Yes it is most interesting how the RCC has managed to absorb all that local woo as it takes over new territory. They do this while maintaining the facade of being the true original church that Jesus gave the nod to.
Don't forget it is quite happy having married priests and even bishops when it finds it convenient. You'd almost think they were making it up as they go along.
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Old 4th April 2019, 02:36 PM   #1323
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Don't forget it is quite happy having married priests and even bishops when it finds it convenient. You'd almost think they were making it up as they go along.

One would certainly get that impression and the surprising part is the way the faithful just lap it up without a murmur of dissension. Things like Limbo and Indulgences come and go. Popes with a taste for the licentious, (more than one Pope at times), are there in the past along the supposedly legitimate line of accession. If Jesus did exist and said that "Thou art Peter ...." stuff to his disciple, I think he would be shaking his head now.
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Old 12th April 2019, 03:04 AM   #1324
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Ex-Pope Benedict XVI blames 1960s revolution for sex abuse

#LawfulEvil
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Old 12th April 2019, 04:03 AM   #1325
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
Yeah, I saw that.... Jeebus wept but the RCC is severely out of touch with reality (like it's history of sexual abuse going back centuries).
That's what comes of believing on a sky fairy I suppose.
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Old 12th April 2019, 02:17 PM   #1326
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post

Hardly seems to have his finger on the pulse of the subject. Lumping homosexuality and paedophilia together as equal sins it seems:

Quote:
The sexual revolution in the 1960s had led to homosexuality and paedophilia in Catholic establishments, he claimed.

Perhaps he lost some wisdom when he gave up his funny hat.
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Old 14th April 2019, 04:39 AM   #1327
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Hardly seems to have his finger on the pulse of the subject. Lumping homosexuality and paedophilia together as equal sins it seems:




Perhaps he lost some wisdom when he gave up his funny hat.
Yeah, especially since so many cases of priest sex abuse go back to the 1950s.
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Old 14th April 2019, 05:48 PM   #1328
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Well... he is really really old. 91. When he was first ordained, the War had just finished.
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Old 15th April 2019, 02:27 PM   #1329
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And so it goes on.

This time we have a letter admitting to the knowledge of child sex abuse of one Father Greg Ferguson. The letter written by the principal of a Marist college Father Bernard Hosie.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-...1970s/11004098


When another student reported to Hosie that he had seen Ferguson chasing young students around a room with an erect penis this was the result:

Quote:
Mr Murray, who was 16 at the time, said he took the children back to their rooms that night before reporting it to Father Hosie the next day.
"When I told Hosie he pinned me against the wall, holding me by the shirt collar of the throat and in turn told me if I ever repeated such vile accusations about Father Ferguson again I would be leaving school without my end of year results; he then told me to get out," he said.
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Old 17th April 2019, 05:31 PM   #1330
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From the Department of You're Not Helping:

Three to be charged over alleged priest assault in Tasmania

Quote:
Three people will be charged over an incident where a priest was allegedly assaulted at a Tasmanian church last month, police say.

Police said they were called to attend a report of a minor disturbance at the Holy Redeemer Catholic Church in Deloraine on March 30.

Father Nicholas Rynne and a 77-year-old Deloraine woman were allegedly pushed and grabbed by three other people during a minor altercation.

No-one was injured.

A 76-year-old woman and a 75-year-old man, both from Elizabeth Town, and 38-year-old Dunloran man will be charged with common assault via summons and will appear at the Launceston Magistrates Court at a later date.
I don't know what the altercation was about, but the fact remains that assault is still a crime. Don't assault priests.
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Old 17th April 2019, 06:01 PM   #1331
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Yes that's interesting. I remember reading about the termination of this priest's administration a few weeks ago. Perhaps some of the folk in the pews weren't to happy with his sermons.


Quote:
On April 3, Tasmania's Catholic Church confirmed Father Rynne had finished as administrator of the Meander Valley parish and other associated roles following an investigation by the Church after tensions arose within the parish.
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Old 24th April 2019, 02:48 PM   #1332
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Some disturbing news that perhaps indicates even deeper levels of evil within the Catholic Church. Intimidation of witnesses who would give evidence supporting legal action against priests now.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-...ctics/11041506

Quote:
The intimidation tactics used on Mr Creigh have raised fresh questions about whether another witness in the Bishop Wilson case also suffered intimidation tactics.
Father Glen Walsh was a Newcastle priest who was ostracised from the Catholic Church after raising the alarm in 2004 about the abuse of another boy by James Fletcher.
Three weeks before Bishop Wilson's trial began, Father Walsh took his own life.

To say it was the church itself behind the threats against Mr Creigh, cannot be alleged with confidence, although in the case of Father Glen Walsh it seems so.
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Old 24th April 2019, 03:03 PM   #1333
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Some more about the experience of Father Walsh:


https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5...d-child-abuse/


Quote:
In his evidence Father Walsh alleged Bishop Malone told him to “F…*off out of my diocese and don’t come back” after the priest said he was going to report*allegations by a second Fletcher victim to police. Bishop Malone strongly denied the allegation. He also*denied trying to dissuade Father Walsh from reporting to police.

Fancy a bishop using language like that!

Mind you I recall a witness against Pell reporting similar eloquent turns of phrase.
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Old 25th April 2019, 05:30 PM   #1334
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But haven't we known for ages that this sort of thing was going on?
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Old 25th April 2019, 05:55 PM   #1335
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
But haven't we known for ages that this sort of thing was going on?

Certainly we have had strong suspicions, but to have a priest testifying that a bishop told him to **** off, is a significant jump don't you think? I wonder what those with their bums on pews think of it?
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Old 25th April 2019, 07:09 PM   #1336
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Certainly we have had strong suspicions, but to have a priest testifying that a bishop told him to **** off, is a significant jump don't you think? I wonder what those with their bums on pews think of it?
From what I've been able to tell (I don't move in those circles) it's making a lot of them somewhat uneasy.
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Old 28th April 2019, 10:04 PM   #1337
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
From what I've been able to tell (I don't move in those circles) it's making a lot of them somewhat uneasy.
Good, hope the whole structure comes down on their heads.
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Old 28th April 2019, 10:59 PM   #1338
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Good, hope the whole structure comes down on their heads.
Well that's hardly going to happen, is it?
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Old 29th April 2019, 01:15 AM   #1339
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Well that's hardly going to happen, is it?
Why not? Look at what happened in the Republic of Ireland.
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Old 29th April 2019, 01:22 AM   #1340
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why not? Look at what happened in the Republic of Ireland.
What happened in the Republic of Ireland? Are there no Catholics in Ireland any more?

What was hoped for was the complete collapse of the Roman Catholic church, and quite frankly I don't think that's going to happen. Not in Ireland, not anywhere.
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Old 29th April 2019, 01:54 PM   #1341
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Good, hope the whole structure comes down on their heads.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Well that's hardly going to happen, is it?

There are bits of it falling all around us and you can't see that?

Yes I think it will all come crashing down in time. Some cave dwellers somewhere will hang on none the less I suppose, but the Vatican will eventually finish up as a museum, and visitors will gaze in wonder that so many in the past, took the BS that flowed out of there seriously.
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Old 29th April 2019, 02:15 PM   #1342
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The power of the church in Ireland has been severely reduced. Abortion is now legal. Divorce may be easier in the future. Both of these would be opposed by the church. If they had power then these things would not even be talked about.

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty...ion_of_Ireland
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...ions-1.3774696
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Old 29th April 2019, 02:34 PM   #1343
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
From what I've been able to tell (I don't move in those circles) it's making a lot of them somewhat uneasy.
I've seen two reactions: 1) somewhat uneasy and 2) siege mentality. But that is just from my close family members.
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Old 29th April 2019, 02:37 PM   #1344
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I've seen two reactions: 1) somewhat uneasy and 2) siege mentality. But that is just from my close family members.

No despair?
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Old 29th April 2019, 06:21 PM   #1345
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
There are bits of it falling all around us and you can't see that?
Bits of Notre Dame fell down too, but the structure is still standing.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Yes I think it will all come crashing down in time. Some cave dwellers somewhere will hang on none the less I suppose, but the Vatican will eventually finish up as a museum, and visitors will gaze in wonder that so many in the past, took the BS that flowed out of there seriously.
That would be nice, but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime or that of my children. Religion is a very sticky meme.
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Old 30th April 2019, 02:10 PM   #1346
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Bits of Notre Dame fell down too, but the structure is still standing.

That would be nice, but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime or that of my children. Religion is a very sticky meme.

Catholics among the younger set in Australia was just over 19% in the last census. So much crap has hit the fan since then that I think even that low percentage has taken a hit. Your, and your childrens lives, aren't that long in relation to the life of the RCC.
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Old 30th April 2019, 02:29 PM   #1347
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
No despair?
No, I don't think that is a natural state of belief.

If you really believe that The Church is God's representative on earth then you can't really fall into despair, only uneasiness at your own failure to grasp God's plan in all of this.

If you already see The Church as a man made construct then what is there to despair about? There are other churches and one can carry on in their beliefs without this one.

The only despair surrounds the fact that one church we sometimes attend has pews designed by a Satanist. The seat portion is perfectly flat and quite short, barely enough room for your butt cheeks, the edge cuts into your thighs like daisy dukes. The back of the pew is only tilted back about 10 degrees and is a thin plank that hits right at my shoulder blades. There is no possible way to get comfortable on these pews. If we don't leave right after communion I start hating every person who dares to utter a single syllable that makes the service any longer. I look longingly at the fathers with crying babies as they get up to take the kids out to cry in the hall. I can't tell if I wish to be the crying baby or the father, but I want to get out.
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Old 30th April 2019, 02:56 PM   #1348
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You wimp!

You have the fine example of devotees wearing cilices and even pillar-dwelling, and you complain about the pews being uncomfortable. Get out your rosary at once and let's hear some serious Hail Maries.
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Old 9th May 2019, 03:21 PM   #1349
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Now a decree from Francis.

Took a while for this to happen and still no mention about stuff confessed in confessional.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...abuse/11099184


Quote:
Pope Francis introduced sweeping changes in Catholic Church law on Thursday local time to hold bishops accountable for sexual abuse or covering it up, making reporting obligatory for clerics and allowing anyone to complain directly to the Vatican if needed.

"Anyone can complain directly to the Vatican." Be interesting to see how that works.
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Old 9th May 2019, 04:39 PM   #1350
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Anyone? Or just clerics?
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Old 10th May 2019, 12:24 AM   #1351
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The important bit is at the end, not the bit about going straight to the central organisation with a history of covering up child abuse

Quote:
The 19-article decree, called "Vos Estis Lux Mundi" (You Are the Light of the World), raises to 18 from 16 the age of adulthood in cases of sexual abuse. It also covers possession of child pornography.

The decree says local Church officials cannot order those who report abuse to remain silent and that senior bishops should make provisions to prevent documents from being destroyed by subordinates if needed.

Clerics should follow local law on whether they are obliged to report alleged sexual abuse to civil authorities.
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Old 10th May 2019, 03:04 AM   #1352
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Anyone? Or just clerics?
Anyone. Clerics and the religious, are required to report suspicions of sexual exploitation and victims must be kept informed of any ecclesiastical investigation (which not has time limits).
The full text is online.
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Old 10th May 2019, 05:14 AM   #1353
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National Secular society in the UK not fooled by by Pope's 'PR' exercise
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Old 10th May 2019, 01:44 PM   #1354
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
National Secular society in the UK not fooled by by Pope's 'PR' exercise

Yes, it would seem the author of the article was not too excited about this decree. The following extract may be a good illustration of its limpness:

Quote:
Archbishop Scicluna, co-organiser of the February meeting, is doubtless trying his best. He put on a brave face and described the new decree as "a significant step forward". He also made the understatement of the century: "it would be a good thing" for people to go to the police.
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Old 11th May 2019, 05:50 AM   #1355
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Now a decree from Francis.

Took a while for this to happen and still no mention about stuff confessed in confessional.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...abuse/11099184





"Anyone can complain directly to the Vatican." Be interesting to see how that works.
From the article:
Quote:
The papal decree, which covers abuse of both children and adults, also obliges every Catholic diocese in the world to set up simple and accessible reporting systems and encourages local churches to involve lay experts in investigations
These morons really don't understand why they have a problem. Why is the RCC "involving" lay experts in investigation? Why not simply all the police and let the detectives tell you what the investigation determined? Is there some class in priest school that covers the investigation of sex crimes that I'm not aware of?
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Old 11th May 2019, 01:43 PM   #1356
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
From the article:


These morons really don't understand why they have a problem. Why is the RCC "involving" lay experts in investigation? Why not simply all the police and let the detectives tell you what the investigation determined? Is there some class in priest school that covers the investigation of sex crimes that I'm not aware of?

All just window dressing I suspect. There may be a special class in "priest school", dealing with how to cover up abuse, while presenting the pristine image of the church to outsiders.
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Old 19th May 2019, 06:04 AM   #1357
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
All just window dressing I suspect. There may be a special class in "priest school", dealing with how to cover up abuse, while presenting the pristine image of the church to outsiders.
They should really overhaul the curriculum for that class. The RCC is **** all at looking pristine right now.
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Old 23rd May 2019, 08:22 PM   #1358
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Archbishop's response to mandatory child sex abuse reporting labelled 'pig-headed'

Quote:
Perth’s Catholic archbishop, Timothy Costelloe, says forcing religious leaders in Western Australia to reveal knowledge of child sex abuse risks “interfering with the free practice of the Catholic faith” and will be ineffective – a stance that advocates say is “ignorant and pig-headed”.

The state government plans to expand mandatory reporting laws to include religious leaders such as priests, ministers, imams, rabbis, pastors and Salvation Army officers.

The laws already apply to doctors, teachers, nurses, midwives, police and school boarding supervisors.

Costelloe said plans to remove legal protections around the confidentiality of religious confessions would cause “great concern and distress” to many people of faith.

...

“To threaten priests with prosecution if they remain faithful to this foundational teaching of the church is to run the risk of interfering with the free practice of the Catholic faith.”

Costelloe said it seemed very unlikely that child abusers – who were notoriously unrepentant – would come to confession.

...

[Chrissie] Foster [whose two daughters were abused by Catholic priests] referred to the case of Catholic priest Michael McArdle, who after pleading guilty in a Queensland court to sexually abusing children made an affidavit stating that he had confessed to the rapes and assaults 1,500 times to 30 priests over a 25-year period.

“They did nothing to stop him,” Foster said.

“If they were required by law to report the crimes to police from the first confession, then 25 years of further assaults affecting generations of children could have been prevented.

“The seal of confession is an example of one of the ridiculous rules the church has been allowed to set for itself.

“That this archbishop is insisting on this after all the bad press exposing the church’s inaction contributing to the rape of children shows how ignorant and pigheaded he is.”
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Old 24th May 2019, 07:13 AM   #1359
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
See, if you make it so priests have to report illegal behavior, then that means that people won't confess illegal behavior. And if they don't confess illegal behavior, then they won't get absolution for their sins! And we can't have that!

Now, from a legal standpoint, I have a hard time distinguishing between "doesn't tell anyone about their crimes" and "tells someone about their crimes and that person doesn't tell anyone about it," but hey, if the state isn't going to be informed about it, then let's at least make sure they get that absolution!

Of course, the church has had the ability to control this completely. Priests in the confessional could have made it clear that they would not grant absolution unless the confessor turned themselves in to authorities.

"For your penance, go to the police"

But they wouldn't do that, no way. Say your 5 Hail Marys and you are absolved.
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Old 24th May 2019, 07:57 AM   #1360
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An uncharitable person might think that the power to grant absolution is a from of extortion with menace
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