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Old 29th March 2019, 02:41 PM   #121
xjx388
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Indeed. I'm reminded of Anderson's "Johannine Church".







No it isn't. Your "simplified version" contradicts RCC doctrine and Canon Law.


It doesn’t contradict it at all. It likens it to a lay process without all the mumbo jumbo. I didn’t say it was exactly like a degree -it’s akin to a degree. The Catholic “degree” of “Priest,” confers certain abilities. It’s a simple as that.
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Old 29th March 2019, 03:19 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Just to add...This is exactly the effect of the official doctrine. Priests are spiritual descendants of the apostles and this connection is passed down by the laying on of hands at their ordination.

What’s wrong with likening it to a degree? That is pretty much the practical effect -they go through seminary, become sub-deacons, transitional deacons and finally are ordained priests.
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
It doesn’t contradict it at all. It likens it to a lay process without all the mumbo jumbo. I didn’t say it was exactly like a degree -it’s akin to a degree. The Catholic “degree” of “Priest,” confers certain abilities. It’s a simple as that.

What are the abilities and how are they tested I wonder? If a priest does the transmutation of the Eucharist into the body of Christ the first time, have the RCC come up with a test to make sure he got it right? Wouldn't be so good if he finished up with the body of someone else would it?
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Old 29th March 2019, 05:22 PM   #123
xjx388
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
What are the abilities and how are they tested I wonder? If a priest does the transmutation of the Eucharist into the body of Christ the first time, have the RCC come up with a test to make sure he got it right? Wouldn't be so good if he finished up with the body of someone else would it?

Believe it or not, the RCC covers this in their doctrine. The bread and wine retain the “species” (the appearance and properties of, IOW) bread and wine. A scientific test would find them to be such. But they are nonetheless the body and blood of Christ. You can only appreciate this presence of Christ in the Eucharist spiritually.

Again, you can’t apply logic to something that defies logic. Believers aren’t supposed to apply “common sense,” to this stuff. That’s the definition of believing something by faith.
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Old 29th March 2019, 06:19 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Believe it or not, the RCC covers this in their doctrine. The bread and wine retain the “species” (the appearance and properties of, IOW) bread and wine. A scientific test would find them to be such. But they are nonetheless the body and blood of Christ. You can only appreciate this presence of Christ in the Eucharist spiritually.

Again, you can’t apply logic to something that defies logic. Believers aren’t supposed to apply “common sense,” to this stuff. That’s the definition of believing something by faith.

Well they should have devised a "spiritual" test then shouldn't they? I mean these guys are supposed to be experts in this stuff. What about if there a a lot of priests out there just doing it wrong?
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Old 29th March 2019, 06:55 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Believe it or not, the RCC covers this in their doctrine. The bread and wine retain the “species” (the appearance and properties of, IOW) bread and wine. A scientific test would find them to be such. But they are nonetheless the body and blood of Christ. You can only appreciate this presence of Christ in the Eucharist spiritually.

I think I knew this at some point. The bread only becomes the body of Christ when ingested by a faithful person during the appropriate ceremony. Until then, they're just crackers.

If I took Communion (which I once tried to do in college as a joke), even if I took it from a priest during Mass, it wouldn't be the body of Christ because I personally wouldn't intend it to be.*



*The girls I went to Mass with stopped me and, in an astonishingly rare show of good judgment at that age, I agreed with them.
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Old 3rd April 2019, 12:50 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Believe it or not, the RCC covers this in their doctrine. The bread and wine retain the “species” (the appearance and properties of, IOW) bread and wine. A scientific test would find them to be such. But they are nonetheless the body and blood of Christ. You can only appreciate this presence of Christ in the Eucharist spiritually.

Again, you can’t apply logic to something that defies logic. Believers aren’t supposed to apply “common sense,” to this stuff. That’s the definition of believing something by faith.
I vaguely remember a felt hat analogy from Catholic school. You can turn a felt hat into a soup bowl without it having to change in any physical way, other than turning it upside down and pouring the soup into it. It is still felt in the shape of a hat and yet it is now a soup bowl, not a hat.

I wasn't Catholic and it was easier to just ascribe things that didn't make sense to magic for the purposes of passing a test. Memorize the phrase that matters and move on.
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