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Old 4th April 2019, 08:19 AM   #41
blutoski
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is a very good point to make, and I completely agree.
As do I, but worth pointing out there was a huge disagreement within organized skepticism on this exact topic a few years ago, and JREF had outspoken supporters of not restricting speech for pee cee reasons.

Specifically, the catalyst was Penn Jillette at one of the TAMs said that anybody who's religious is 'retarded' and there was criticism that I think is valid. I'm sure the thread's long purged by now.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:34 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
As do I, but worth pointing out there was a huge disagreement within organized skepticism on this exact topic a few years ago, and JREF had outspoken supporters of not restricting speech for pee cee reasons.

Specifically, the catalyst was Penn Jillette at one of the TAMs said that anybody who's religious is 'retarded' and there was criticism that I think is valid. I'm sure the thread's long purged by now.
Those people are wrong. It's not okay to refer to anyone as "retarded".
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:46 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It's not okay to refer to anyone as "retarded".
What word ought he have used to convey a severe lack of mental acuity?
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:48 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Those people are wrong. It's not okay to refer to anyone as "retarded".
Sure it is. Maybe not the word, but the condition didn't go away just because we changed the terminology.

Call it "developmentally disabled", you're still talking about the same thing.

Penn could have said "idiots", or "****** in the head", and the meaning woud have been the same. The insult would have been the same.
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:56 PM   #45
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
What word ought he have used to convey a severe lack of mental acuity?
For a start, religious people don't routinely have a severe lack of mental acuity but regardless, an obsolete term for a developmental disability isn't the right word for it. If you want to insult someone's intelligence, call them stupid. But examine why you want to insult someone in the first place. What purpose does it serve?
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Old 4th April 2019, 04:59 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure it is. Maybe not the word, but the condition didn't go away just because we changed the terminology.

Call it "developmentally disabled", you're still talking about the same thing.

Penn could have said "idiots", or "****** in the head", and the meaning woud have been the same. The insult would have been the same.
No, it wouldn't have been the same. But explaining why to anyone who thinks that they should be able to insult people with no qualms or repercussion is futile.
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Old 7th April 2019, 09:20 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Electric ghosts is ridiculous. Ghosts would either be liquid chemicals or some kind of energetic particle we haven't discovered yet. Ghostons. If we ran an inverted tachyon pulse through the deflector array it would create a subspace pulse to reveal the ghostons emitted by the alien vessel! Make it so.
Ghostons! Should be worth 6 months or so of LHC time to see if they can be identified. May be a Nobel prize in the results.
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Old 8th April 2019, 10:03 AM   #48
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Leviticus 20:6

“If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people."

It's not that Christians don't believe in ghosts, they are specifically instructed not to try to contact the afterlife. They're supposed to seek the council of God. There are many other passages in the Bible to support this as well.

If we look at the reasoning behind this instruction it was likely to prevent pagan worship and child sacrifice. Killing children for spiritual gain or influence was considered a no no.

Chris B.
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Old 8th April 2019, 02:04 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
For a start, religious people don't routinely have a severe lack of mental acuity but regardless, an obsolete term for a developmental disability isn't the right word for it. If you want to insult someone's intelligence, call them stupid. But examine why you want to insult someone in the first place. What purpose does it serve?

Agreed. In these days of political correctness it is not acceptable to call someone retarded. Stupid or a dumb arse is fine.

Some people however desperately need to be insulted and it can be beyond ones ability to deny them that.
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Old 8th April 2019, 03:06 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
It's not that Christians don't believe in ghosts, they are specifically instructed not to try to contact the afterlife.
Makes God sound like an untrustworthy travel agent. "You'll love it there! But you can't read any reviews from people who've been there."
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Old 8th April 2019, 03:27 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Leviticus 20:6

“If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people."

It's not that Christians don't believe in ghosts, they are specifically instructed not to try to contact the afterlife. They're supposed to seek the council of God. There are many other passages in the Bible to support this as well.

If we look at the reasoning behind this instruction it was likely to prevent pagan worship and child sacrifice. Killing children for spiritual gain or influence was considered a no no.

Chris B.

But the god of the OT used to get off on this stuff. Killing folk himself was something of an obsession. But, but, but, I hear you say. "Jesus changed all that." But, but, but, I say. "Jesus was always there" - well according to Catholicism anyway. Interesting the way these different notions blend together.
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Old 8th April 2019, 04:56 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Makes God sound like an untrustworthy travel agent. "You'll love it there! But you can't read any reviews from people who've been there."
Now that's funny.

Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
But the god of the OT used to get off on this stuff. Killing folk himself was something of an obsession. But, but, but, I hear you say. "Jesus changed all that." But, but, but, I say. "Jesus was always there" - well according to Catholicism anyway. Interesting the way these different notions blend together.
Well the Jesus and Catholic stuff aside, when reviewing the Old Testament from a historical point of view, the story of Abraham and Isaac was the first attempt to dissuade folks from sacrificing their children. Kill the ram for a sacrifice, not the child kinda lesson. Shocking by today's standards but at that time child sacrifice was not uncommon.

And yes, under King David the Hebrews were some violent people during wartime, not only killing their enemies but their animals too. Scorched Earth policy, great tactics for war though inhumane. It would seem God desires sinners to repent and live in a way that turns them from evil into the light of good and righteousness. But there comes a point where evil finally becomes intolerable to God and it is wiped from the Earth. Poof slaughter.

Chris B.


I'd also like to add these opinions are based on readings of the Old Testament and in no way am I endorsing or condoning them personally.
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Last edited by ChrisBFRPKY; 8th April 2019 at 05:01 PM. Reason: sp + added info
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Old 8th April 2019, 05:16 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
But the god of the OT used to get off on this stuff. Killing folk himself was something of an obsession. But, but, but, I hear you say. "Jesus changed all that." But, but, but, I say. "Jesus was always there" - well according to Catholicism anyway. Interesting the way these different notions blend together.
I don't know about official Catholic doctrine, but he was certainly there from the beginning in Milton's fanfic.
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Old 8th April 2019, 05:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I don't know about official Catholic doctrine, but he was certainly there from the beginning in Milton's fanfic.

From Catholic answers:


Quote:
Notice, before the creation, the Son was “with” the Father. Also, the Son addressing the Father and himself in an “I/thou” relationship is unmistakable. We have distinct persons here. “Father” and “Son” reveal a generative relationship as well. Yet, this relationship between two persons clearly has no beginning in time because it existed before the creation, from all eternity. Thus, the relational distinction is real, and personal, but as far as nature is concerned, Jesus’ words from John 10:30 come to mind: “I and the Father are one,” in that they each possess the same infinite nature.

So there, Jesus, always was there. Mind you one could get the impression that Jesus was a bit up himself, when he was banging on about being "one" with his dad. All makes sense to Catholics which is a worry.
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Old 8th April 2019, 06:01 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
So there, Jesus, always was there. Mind you one could get the impression that Jesus was a bit up himself, when he was banging on about being "one" with his dad. All makes sense to Catholics which is a worry.
Sure, which agrees with the fanfic. But at the same time, it doesn't mean that things weren't different before Jesus came to earth from after. Jesus' short stint as a human changed things, no matter what Christian doctrine you're following.
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