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25th March 2019, 10:23 AM | #601 |
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I don'tthink she ever has said, or ever will say, that. She just says we can't have it yet because the people voting on it haven't got the right answer yet.
No, she's still holding the "The answer is my deal, even though I didn't listen to the question" line; she just used it on Ed Milliband. Dave |
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25th March 2019, 10:24 AM | #602 |
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It's amazing that we asked for an extension from the EU and have spent the time making ZERO progress on anything.
I think her final roll of the dice may well be simply to say 'look vote for my deal or I will revoke A50 and then resign' If there is a game of no-deal chicken I think she will blink first because she really doesn't want to be the PM who led us into that catastrophe. So either she gets a long extension of at least a year or revokes a50, quits, we call an election and see if we can go somewhere from there. |
25th March 2019, 10:27 AM | #603 |
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25th March 2019, 10:37 AM | #604 |
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25th March 2019, 10:39 AM | #605 |
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25th March 2019, 10:40 AM | #606 |
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I disagree. I think while she would prefer her deal to pass, she considers no-deal to be a perfectly acceptable second prize which will also be very popular in the Conservative Party.
She, and the Conservative Party, don't think that a no-deal Brexit will be a catastrophe, instead they think it will be a series of short term inconveniences until the Europeans come to their senses, realise that they need us more than we need then, and accede to our wishes - this despite ample evidence to the contrary. |
25th March 2019, 10:44 AM | #607 |
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25th March 2019, 11:59 AM | #608 |
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Agreed. Isn't that what hard Brexiteers have been selling all along? As for May, "If they vote down my agreement and mistreat me in the House," she must think, "I jolly well shall take the lead on the only option left," whilst blaming absolutely everyone else who is not of like mind for all bad tidings.
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25th March 2019, 12:03 PM | #609 |
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25th March 2019, 12:37 PM | #610 |
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There's no guarantee of the best possible outcome, but can you not see that a decision based on the actual options available is likely to be better than one based on purely imaginary deals and outcomes that have since been shown to not be on offer? I honestly don't think you're so stupid you can't see this, while you frequently skirt the fringe of trolling I actually find some of your questions interesting and sometimes inciteful, but this is below you.
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25th March 2019, 12:41 PM | #611 |
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25th March 2019, 12:45 PM | #612 |
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25th March 2019, 12:55 PM | #613 |
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25th March 2019, 01:05 PM | #614 |
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Sure they did, the leave campaign was quite clear, it would be all the benefits and none of the costs/responsibilities of membership. Now we are having reality like the Spanish will not simply give British pensioners free healthcare out of the goodness of their hearts, and that the brits may have to buy their health care on the free market.
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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25th March 2019, 01:17 PM | #615 |
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25th March 2019, 03:12 PM | #616 |
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Just 2 mins ago - MPs vote for Indicative Votes (i.e. putting more control in hands of all MPs, and weakening Mrs May's control). Vital vote ... 329 for the Indicative Voting vs 302 against (and Mrs May had put a Whip on all Tories to vote against that ... so 329 to 302 was bigger than expected victory, ie now enabling MPs to have a list of options for Indicative Voting this week).
Update ... BBC report here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47701591 Update ... 3 Conservative MPs are reported to have resigned this evening in order to defy Mrs May's Tory Whip, and vote for the above Indicative Votes. |
25th March 2019, 03:18 PM | #617 |
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Plus another two ministerial resignations, I believe.
ETA make that three. |
25th March 2019, 03:20 PM | #618 |
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It's three now.
As well as Richard Harrington, the Foreign Office minister Alistair Burt and the health minister Steve Brine have also resigned because they voted for the Letwin amendment, government sources have confirmed. The Beckett amendment could also be very important and is being voted on right now. It's all kicking off Bye, Theresa, nice to have known you. |
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25th March 2019, 03:22 PM | #619 |
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25th March 2019, 03:24 PM | #620 |
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All in all, 30 Tories voted for Letwin's amendment.
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25th March 2019, 03:27 PM | #621 |
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Second amendment defeated
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25th March 2019, 03:28 PM | #622 |
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25th March 2019, 03:32 PM | #623 |
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Parliament still have other mechanisms for preventing no deal now, so hopefully not a big issue.
Main motion now being voted on... |
25th March 2019, 03:42 PM | #624 |
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Doubtless, all the leave voters will be delighted by this victory for parliamentary sovereignty.
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25th March 2019, 03:43 PM | #625 |
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Passed 327 to 300.
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25th March 2019, 05:37 PM | #626 |
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25th March 2019, 05:50 PM | #627 |
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25th March 2019, 05:52 PM | #628 |
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Richard Harrington's resignation letter. Pretty scathing:
https://twitter.com/Richard4Watford/...02682835759106 |
25th March 2019, 06:03 PM | #629 |
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What are the looking term ramifications for this? Party discipline, whips, loyalty to your party. All they can be ignored now. Probably means a lot of unpredictable outcomes for a long time on contentious issues.
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25th March 2019, 06:04 PM | #630 |
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We do these things not because they are easy, but because we thought they were going to be easy. Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos |
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25th March 2019, 06:18 PM | #631 |
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AFAIK nothing has changed, constitutionally, despite claims by some MPs who opposed the Letwin amendment (like Bill Cash).
In essence, this is just a one-day suspension of Standing Order 14(1) (which "provides that government business shall have precedence at every sitting", with certain exceptions such as days set aside for opposition days, private members' bills etc.). Standing Orders can be changed by Parliament if it so wishes, this is not in principle anything new. It's Parliament asserting its existing authority in the face of, basically, incompetence by the executive. ETA: Obviously, I am not a lawyer so this could be off. |
25th March 2019, 06:19 PM | #632 |
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25th March 2019, 09:20 PM | #633 |
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25th March 2019, 11:02 PM | #634 |
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25th March 2019, 11:26 PM | #635 |
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26th March 2019, 12:12 AM | #636 |
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Because your philosophy tends to prefer an idealised* system to people, when the system is set up by people for their mutual benefit**.
*And often unpleasant imagined version of the rules. **ETA, or at least a compromise to stop any one group exercising too much power over the rest. |
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OECD healthcare spending Public/Compulsory Expenditure on healthcare https://data.oecd.org/chart/60Tt Every year since 1990 the US Public healthcare spending has been greater than the UK as a proportion of GDP. More US Tax goes to healthcare than the UK |
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26th March 2019, 12:42 AM | #637 |
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26th March 2019, 02:10 AM | #638 |
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26th March 2019, 03:17 AM | #639 |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't a couple of other countries vote to leave the EU, only to find themselves in an incredible mess, so reversed their decision? I haven't seen any mention of this in relation to Brexit, though, which seems very strange if it happened. Did I dream it?
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26th March 2019, 03:21 AM | #640 |
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As a Yank I am following this in horrified fascination. Forgive me this question, as I don't see it outlined above in the thread, but -
What if, for some extreme and extraordinary reason, the Queen comes out with a statement boiled down to "We would prefer not to exit the EU." Please understand, I don't expect that to happen. But crazier things have indeed happened in the world, and I am genuinely curious what might happen if that occurred. From the social standpoint it would be a "wow' moment, I feel, but does it have any legal weight? Can the Queen stop this if she so chose? |
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