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Old 5th June 2019, 11:45 PM   #2521
The Don
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
2016: ‘An extra £350m a week for the NHS.’

2019: The NHS is ‘on the table’ for trade agreements.

And yet there are still people who voted Leave who deny they were conned.
Tbh, those two things are not necessarily mutually incompatible. If US healthcare companies manage to get their claws into the NHS I can see costs rise, for a reduced service, so that £350m a week won't even start to cover the funding gap

There may be a minority of people with a different set of reasons for leaving the EU but to me it seems that the vast majority of Leave supporters aren't so much worried about a loss of sovereignty (they're willing to give up pretty much anything for a sweet trade deal with the US), they just don't want to have to deal with people who speak "foreign"
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Old 6th June 2019, 03:46 AM   #2522
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Tbh, those two things are not necessarily mutually incompatible. If US healthcare companies manage to get their claws into the NHS I can see costs rise, for a reduced service, so that £350m a week won't even start to cover the funding gap

There may be a minority of people with a different set of reasons for leaving the EU but to me it seems that the vast majority of Leave supporters aren't so much worried about a loss of sovereignty (they're willing to give up pretty much anything for a sweet trade deal with the US), they just don't want to have to deal with people who speak "foreign"
Time and time again we come back to the reality that the majority of people who voted for Leave had simply fallen for the press and politicians' lies, and have little concept of what Brexit actually means.

I used to say that a lot of them won't truly get it until their standing in line a British airports, returning from holidays on the continent, and being incensed that they can't bring back the same amount of booze and fags as previously. Now it seem it'll be standing in A&E, being asked to cough up cash or insurance documents, bewildered that the NHS is no longer FatPoD...
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Old 6th June 2019, 04:22 AM   #2523
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Time and time again we come back to the reality that the majority of people who voted for Leave had simply fallen for the press and politicians' lies, and have little concept of what Brexit actually means.

I used to say that a lot of them won't truly get it until their standing in line a British airports, returning from holidays on the continent, and being incensed that they can't bring back the same amount of booze and fags as previously. Now it seem it'll be standing in A&E, being asked to cough up cash or insurance documents, bewildered that the NHS is no longer FatPoD...
I doubt even then that they'll find a link to Brexit, or at least they'll not associate it with their own choices. Instead the lines will be due to the EU being big meanies to the UK post-Brexit and the fact that healthcare in the UK is now insurance-based system is some kind of exciting initiative introduced by our new BFFs from across the pond.
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Old 6th June 2019, 10:11 PM   #2524
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Bolded sentence is simply wrong on all levels. That is just a lie perpetuated by ultranationalists like Mečiár (so he could get more power for corruption) or by certain Tiso.

Truth is that if it weren't for us, Slovaks would be speaking Hungarian and be part of Hungary and their "great" language would ben nothing more than footnote because it was barely surviving in few villages in mountains.

Their language was not only official language of Czechoslovakia, but radio and later television had number of requirements with regard to representation of Slovak language in their broadcast. And it was thought even in Czech schools.

Furthermore we sent loads of money to upgrade everything and certain necessary professions like teachers were often sent to Slovakia.

Thanks for not perpetuating that Mečiar's lie anymore.
Mm, yea. No offense, I don't have a personal horse in the race, but your response makes me think there is something to the claim.

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Old 6th June 2019, 11:49 PM   #2525
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Tbh, those two things are not necessarily mutually incompatible. If US healthcare companies manage to get their claws into the NHS I can see costs rise, for a reduced service, so that £350m a week won't even start to cover the funding gap
Hm.

We send £350m a week to the EU. Let's send it to USA instead!

It has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

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Old 7th June 2019, 12:58 AM   #2526
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Have you checked the European election results recently?

Over 72% of the seats went to parties who agree Europe should become a proper state someday down the line. Not too soon, but not in the unfantomably different future either - a 2-5 decades or so, other questions depending.

72% is not a definition of "nobody" I'm familiar with.

McHrozni
That stat appears to be an outright lie. If not you are going to have to back it up with some manifesto pledges from elected members/parties that say what you claim.

Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
All the former Yugoslavian ones, so I make that 5(?).
(Haven't looked at a map to count them)



"This committee would better spend its time investigating the waste of public money by well-known MEPs," (Farage) added.

I assume he was taking the mick with that line?
How much has he cost the public as an MEP that never bothers to turn up?
It's a red herring anyway. How they came about doesn't matter. The fact is Latvia (for example) is not suddenly going to turn round and say 'remember how we finally got our nationhood? We want to give it away now'

And there aren't a hell of a lot of examples of democratic states voting to cease to exist either are there? Not too many examples of countries gaining independence and then deciding to give it away later.

The trend in Europe is to more, smaller nations. Nobody is giving away their nationhood anytime soon. In fact quite the opposite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ents_in_Europe

The idea that wanting to be part of the EU, seeing benefit in it, even desiring to strengthen it and deepen the links is the same as wanting to see an EU superstate is simply incorrect.
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:13 AM   #2527
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Mm, yea. No offense, I don't have a personal horse in the race, but your response makes me think there is something to the claim.

McHrozni
There is nothing to that claim. There are very few claims that can beat Brexit lies in absence of truth. You managed to find one of them. But then, outside world is pretty ignorant of us, so not that surprising. (Sadly, knowledge of outside world is not in better shape here either nowadays)
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:42 AM   #2528
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A list of polls about voting intentions for Westminster (as in if there was a General Election, who would you vote for?);

https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Labour and the Conservatives are haemorrhaging support. The Brexit Party, Lib Dems and Greens are gaining. Change have failed to get off the ground and UKIP is dying out.
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:45 AM   #2529
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
That stat appears to be an outright lie. If not you are going to have to back it up with some manifesto pledges from elected members/parties that say what you claim.
It's the combination of the seats belonging to EPP, ALDE and S&D:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_People%27s_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allian...ats_for_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progre..._and_Democrats

Plus a few others who are also on board. All agree with further integration of the EU. In the long term this means a unified European superstate. Not tommorow of course, but over a longer period of time. I keep repeating this is a project that will take a long period of time because quite a few posters seem to think it's a 2020-ish project. It is not. I doubt it will happen before 2040s and it will happen in small steps, we won't even know when did we cease to be a union of states and became a state with federal subjects.


Quote:
It's a red herring anyway. How they came about doesn't matter. The fact is Latvia (for example) is not suddenly going to turn round and say 'remember how we finally got our nationhood? We want to give it away now'

And there aren't a hell of a lot of examples of democratic states voting to cease to exist either are there? Not too many examples of countries gaining independence and then deciding to give it away later.
Yea. Did I mention it's going to take at least 20 more years yet? I think I better mention it again: it's a long term project. A long term project, that will take decades more, in small steps. A long term project, ok?

Quote:
The trend in Europe is to more, smaller nations. Nobody is giving away their nationhood anytime soon. In fact quite the opposite.
I'm reasonably sure Scotts would agree they aren't the same nation as the English are. Or that Austrians could well be the same nation as Germans, if it wasn't for a historic Austrian immigrant to Germany.

Nation and state were never synonimous. Yes, most states are built along national lines. No, it's not a coincidence. No, it doesn't mean anything when you're discussing a union of European states (and nations, as it were).

Quote:
The idea that wanting to be part of the EU, seeing benefit in it, even desiring to strengthen it and deepen the links is the same as wanting to see an EU superstate is simply incorrect.
Did I mention yet this is a long term project whose small steps of further integration will cause an EU superstate - whether desired or not?

Just in case I didn't, it's a long term project. Many, many small steps and a few big ones (fiscal union) will slowly guide the EU towards becoming a superstate and we probably won't be able to definitively say there is any single point before which EU was a union of states and after which it was a superstate. The key here is it will take a long time yet and the progress will be nearly invisible as you live through it, did I mention this before?

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Old 7th June 2019, 01:48 AM   #2530
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
There is nothing to that claim. There are very few claims that can beat Brexit lies in absence of truth. You managed to find one of them. But then, outside world is pretty ignorant of us, so not that surprising. (Sadly, knowledge of outside world is not in better shape here either nowadays)
Again, no offense, but if you were a Slovak I would take your word for it. A Czech may have a different perspective, which could be in line with reality or it could be out of touch with reality as Ress-Mogg is.

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Old 7th June 2019, 01:56 AM   #2531
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Peterborough by election;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48532869

Labour 31% down 17%
Brexit 29% up 29%
Cons 21% down 25%
Lib Dem 12% up 9%

I do not think Corbyn will keep up his demand for a General Election. Labour and the Cons must be seriously worried now.
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Old 7th June 2019, 01:58 AM   #2532
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
A list of polls about voting intentions for Westminster (as in if there was a General Election, who would you vote for?);

https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Labour and the Conservatives are haemorrhaging support. The Brexit Party, Lib Dems and Greens are gaining. Change have failed to get off the ground and UKIP is dying out.
Whoa. Latest poll:

Brexit party: 26%
Labour: 22%
Con: 17%
LibDem: 16%
Green: 11%
UKIP, ChUK: 1% each

Brutal. However it looks slightly anomalous compared to other polls. If you did a poll of polls I think Labour would come out ahead of Brexit party as the main opposition. Tories might be wiped out and LibDems could be the kingmakers of the minority government. It depends a bit on how votes are distributed. I think LibDems and Greens would take may seats representing cities while Brexit, Labour and Con would fight Hunger games over what's left.

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Old 7th June 2019, 01:59 AM   #2533
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Peterborough by election;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48532869

Labour 31% down 17%
Brexit 29% up 29%
Cons 21% down 25%
Lib Dem 12% up 9%

I do not think Corbyn will keep up his demand for a General Election. Labour and the Cons must be seriously worried now.
Would you say his leadership of the opposition was better than Theresa May as Prime Minister, worse than that trainwreck, or about the same?

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Old 7th June 2019, 02:25 AM   #2534
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Peterborough by election;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48532869

Labour 31% down 17%
Brexit 29% up 29%
Cons 21% down 25%
Lib Dem 12% up 9%

I do not think Corbyn will keep up his demand for a General Election. Labour and the Cons must be seriously worried now.
Yes, a very interesting result.

Personally, I don't think that Jeremy Corbyn will change his tune about a General Election because the alternatives are to go "full Brexit" (which he wants but doesn't want to carry the can for) or support a second referendum (which he seems to have little or no appetite for).
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Old 7th June 2019, 02:30 AM   #2535
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Yes, a very interesting result.

Personally, I don't think that Jeremy Corbyn will change his tune about a General Election because the alternatives are to go "full Brexit" (which he wants but doesn't want to carry the can for) or support a second referendum (which he seems to have little or no appetite for).
Looks to me like Corbyn's stance is "Get me into power, and I'll think about it". He's just another power-hungry politician, disguised as a slightly bewildered geography teacher.
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Old 7th June 2019, 02:41 AM   #2536
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Would you say his leadership of the opposition was better than Theresa May as Prime Minister, worse than that trainwreck, or about the same?

McHrozni
I would say far worse.

Theresa May stepped willingly into a difficult position and since that moment has seemingly done everything in her power to make that situation worse. Sure she has made an absolute hash of it but she picked up a bad hand (in bridge terms 0-6 points and no particularly long suits).

Jeremy Corbyn OTOH was dealt 23 points and a six card heart suit but has somehow managed to find himself in a seven clubs contract doubled and vulnerable and missing two aces
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Old 7th June 2019, 02:46 AM   #2537
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Whoa. Latest poll:

Brexit party: 26%
Labour: 22%
Con: 17%
LibDem: 16%
Green: 11%
UKIP, ChUK: 1% each

Brutal. However it looks slightly anomalous compared to other polls. If you did a poll of polls I think Labour would come out ahead of Brexit party as the main opposition. Tories might be wiped out and LibDems could be the kingmakers of the minority government. It depends a bit on how votes are distributed. I think LibDems and Greens would take may seats representing cities while Brexit, Labour and Con would fight Hunger games over what's left.

McHrozni
This is a nationally sampled poll, and so would not necessarily reflect what happened locally in Peterborough yesterday, where it seems Labour focused on local issues and not Brexit, a good strategy seeing as the Brexit National party had no manifesto.

The opinion polls are still reflecting the protest votes for and against Brexit, but in a general election, all manifestos would be scrutinised and will again detract from Brexit issues.
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Old 7th June 2019, 02:50 AM   #2538
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Again, no offense, but if you were a Slovak I would take your word for it. A Czech may have a different perspective, which could be in line with reality or it could be out of touch with reality as Ress-Mogg is.

McHrozni
I stated facts not opinion. Nothing to do with "perspective". Usual Mečiar supporter have a lot in common with usual Brexiter: Ignoring facts, experts and reality.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:05 AM   #2539
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I would say far worse.

Theresa May stepped willingly into a difficult position and since that moment has seemingly done everything in her power to make that situation worse. Sure she has made an absolute hash of it but she picked up a bad hand (in bridge terms 0-6 points and no particularly long suits).

Jeremy Corbyn OTOH was dealt 23 points and a six card heart suit but has somehow managed to find himself in a seven clubs contract doubled and vulnerable and missing two aces
Damn.

Now I need to learn Bridge Unless you can make this into a Prefferance parable?

I agree with what I think it says, he played his hand far worse

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Old 7th June 2019, 04:06 AM   #2540
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Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
This is a nationally sampled poll, and so would not necessarily reflect what happened locally in Peterborough yesterday, where it seems Labour focused on local issues and not Brexit, a good strategy seeing as the Brexit National party had no manifesto.

The opinion polls are still reflecting the protest votes for and against Brexit, but in a general election, all manifestos would be scrutinised and will again detract from Brexit issues.
Yes, it's a national poll, the voting intent of Britain at this point. Content-free Brexit party in the lead, with Labour behind.

Par for the course in these times I'm afraid.

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Old 7th June 2019, 04:13 AM   #2541
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Peterborough by election;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48532869

Labour 31% down 17%
Brexit 29% up 29%
Cons 21% down 25%
Lib Dem 12% up 9%

I do not think Corbyn will keep up his demand for a General Election. Labour and the Cons must be seriously worried now.
Why, in such a marginal seat with a high Brexit referendum exit result Labour managed to increase their majority by almost 13%...

I'd say Labour will have sighed with relief at the Tories being the victim of those that have switched to the Farage party.

Makes a no deal even more likely.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:29 AM   #2542
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
It's the combination of the seats belonging to EPP, ALDE and S&D:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_People%27s_Party
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allian...ats_for_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progre..._and_Democrats

Plus a few others who are also on board. All agree with further integration of the EU. In the long term this means a unified European superstate. Not tommorow of course, but over a longer period of time. I keep repeating this is a project that will take a long period of time because quite a few posters seem to think it's a 2020-ish project. It is not. I doubt it will happen before 2040s and it will happen in small steps, we won't even know when did we cease to be a union of states and became a state with federal subjects.
Which is not what you originally claimed people voted for at all. It's a mile away in fact. And yes you would know very clearly because it would be a significant legal change of status.

Quote:
Yea. Did I mention it's going to take at least 20 more years yet? I think I better mention it again: it's a long term project. A long term project, that will take decades more, in small steps. A long term project, ok?
Not in 2 years, not in 20 years, not in 200 years.

Quote:
I'm reasonably sure Scotts would agree they aren't the same nation as the English are. Or that Austrians could well be the same nation as Germans, if it wasn't for a historic Austrian immigrant to Germany.
I don't know anybody in Austria that wants to be part of Germany. I'm sure there must be some - Nazis possibly. But there is no serious political movement as far as I am aware of to make this happen. As for Scotland, there is a split between those two opinions. However, there is nobody (!) who thinks they are the same nation as Bulgaria or Albania and both sides agree that they DON'T want a European superstate and the relinquishing of nationhood.

Quote:
Nation and state were never synonimous. Yes, most states are built along national lines. No, it's not a coincidence. No, it doesn't mean anything when you're discussing a union of European states (and nations, as it were).
It does when you are asking people to relinquish it.

Quote:
Did I mention yet this is a long term project whose small steps of further integration will cause an EU superstate - whether desired or not?
You keep saying that as if somehow it's going to happen by accident despite nobody wanting it. It really isn't.

Quote:
Just in case I didn't, it's a long term project. Many, many small steps and a few big ones (fiscal union) will slowly guide the EU towards becoming a superstate and we probably won't be able to definitively say there is any single point before which EU was a union of states and after which it was a superstate. The key here is it will take a long time yet and the progress will be nearly invisible as you live through it, did I mention this before?
This is your opinion but it seems a mile away from reality. I think you don't appreciate what a 'state' would be. A single flag, a single language?, a single national anthem?, a single football team at the World Cup?, a single Olympic team? Not happening.

Since most things seem to point to smaller nations being more prosperous in general then if anything the opposite is more likely. That huge states with multiple cultures like China and India will disintegrate and fragment. Europe and Russia may well further subdivide.

The USA might well survive but in the long run who knows, that is a rather unique case anyway.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:38 AM   #2543
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why, in such a marginal seat with a high Brexit referendum exit result Labour managed to increase their majority by almost 13%...

I'd say Labour will have sighed with relief at the Tories being the victim of those that have switched to the Farage party.

Makes a no deal even more likely.
No doubt Corbyn thinks this is an opportunity. The no-deal vote will split between Tory and Brexit and he can charge through the middle with his no-clue strategy.

Of course all this means in reality is that the Tories will double down on delivering a Brexit as hard as they can and there will be no GE until they do so.

Corbyn seems to be strangely blinkered in all of this. He can talk himself blue in the face about a GE but he isn't getting one and he seems unable to think tactically about what he should be doing instead. His strategy seems to be simply to engineer a no deal Brexit without taking the blame for it. But I don't see how that gets him elected either.
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:50 AM   #2544
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Whoa. Latest poll:

Brexit party: 26%
Labour: 22%
Con: 17%
LibDem: 16%
Green: 11%
UKIP, ChUK: 1% each

Brutal. However it looks slightly anomalous compared to other polls. If you did a poll of polls I think Labour would come out ahead of Brexit party as the main opposition. Tories might be wiped out and LibDems could be the kingmakers of the minority government. It depends a bit on how votes are distributed. I think LibDems and Greens would take may seats representing cities while Brexit, Labour and Con would fight Hunger games over what's left.
So pro-Remain parties on 28% even when not including SNP & Plaid Cymru.
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:03 AM   #2545
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YouGov piece, clearly prompted by Farage's "fake polls" whinge: How we design election polling questions.

It's hilarious that Farage's complaint now means that the Green Party will be included amongst the "main parties," as well as Brexit Ltd, with the result that their latest shows:

Con 18%
Lab 20%
Lib Dem 20%
SNP 5%
Plaid Cymru 0%
Brexit 26%
Green 9%

UKIP 1%
WEP 0%
Change UK 0%

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Old 7th June 2019, 06:56 AM   #2546
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Would you say his leadership of the opposition was better than Theresa May as Prime Minister, worse than that trainwreck, or about the same?
Homeopathic leadership.

In the same way that a treatment with diluted water might do less harm than bloodletting or other quack interventions, his strategy of doing nothing until the Tories deliver Brexit and take the blame for it tells us little about his capacity to actually achieve anything.

It does seem to be gaining him something of a reputation for not achieving anything though.
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Old 7th June 2019, 07:05 AM   #2547
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So.
The next Tory leader.
What do we reckon the odds are of them not actually becoming PM?

The more I think about it, the more likely it feels to me...though I strongly suspect that's wishful thinking on my part!
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Old 7th June 2019, 04:36 PM   #2548
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big sigh..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cial-occasions

here we go...

a competition for who can come across as the edgiest, to appeal to every demographic.

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Old 7th June 2019, 05:27 PM   #2549
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So whilst Donald Tusk warned the UK it needed to concentrate on the Brexit issue as time is very tight, what do we do? We arse about with Conservative Party Leader elections of interest only to the Conservative Party which won't be decided until July and then there will be the great summer recess all over August.

Raab wants to prorogue Parliament as soon as it is realised Britain has done precisely nothing at all in heeding Tusk's admonition. Bercow wants to stand in his way. Gove wants to give free settlement to EU citizens. Farage wants to join in the 'negotiations' (= a no deal) even though he has no members of parliament and therefore does not get to vote on the issue.

Come on UK: get your act together.
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:31 PM   #2550
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Nigel Farage at Peterborough bye elections:

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/s...44485236187136
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Old 7th June 2019, 05:34 PM   #2551
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
One poll shows a 1% majority (and what's the MOE on the polling usually +-3% or so) for the first time in about 2 years and that suddenly means people want Brexit?
That was but a few days ago, and now:

Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Whoa. Latest poll:

Brexit party: 26%
Labour: 22%
Con: 17%
LibDem: 16%
Green: 11%
UKIP, ChUK: 1% each
But no doubt the dreamers will keep telling me most people want to remain.

You Pommies are going to wake up one morning to find the once-mighty Pound Sterling is almost keeping pace with the Rouble.
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Old 7th June 2019, 11:22 PM   #2552
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
But no doubt the dreamers will keep telling me most people want to remain.
...and according to the polls, that seems still to be the case. Remain has a 5%-10% lead in the polls. That doesn't transfer neatly into party support because there are a number of confounding factors including Remain supporting Labour voters still supporting Labour in the (forlorn IMO) opinion that Labour will push for a second referendum, people supporting Labour or the Conservatives even though they disagree with their Brexit platform because they like the rest of their policies and people who would continue to support Labour or the Conservatives simply out of habit.

One of the reasons why Leavers don't want a second referendum is that, with a little more knowledge about some of the big issues, enough people might switch to Remain and their once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to line their pockets at the country's expense will have passed.

Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
You Pommies are going to wake up one morning to find the once-mighty Pound Sterling is almost keeping pace with the Rouble.
Well that may help UK exports, but as we run a large trade deficit, that does not bode well for domestic inflation...
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Old 8th June 2019, 12:42 AM   #2553
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
big sigh..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cial-occasions

here we go...

a competition for who can come across as the edgiest, to appeal to every demographic.
Someone pointed out that if they had been poor and admitted to a history of using drugs, they would have been ruined.
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Old 8th June 2019, 01:25 AM   #2554
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Apropos of nothing and just because I think I'm unusual in this, I have no objections to a European superstate.... Preferably as a precursor to an 'Earth state'. Then we can stop all the petty bickering about imaginary lines, focus on running a tidy planet and indeed exploring and colonising other planets.
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Old 8th June 2019, 01:27 AM   #2555
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Would you say his leadership of the opposition was better than Theresa May as Prime Minister, worse than that trainwreck, or about the same?

McHrozni
Much worse. Tory disarray should have been an absolute gift to an opposition party and he's completely failed to capitalise on it.
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Old 8th June 2019, 01:31 AM   #2556
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Time and time again we come back to the reality that the majority of people who voted for Leave had simply fallen for the press and politicians' lies, and have little concept of what Brexit actually means.

I used to say that a lot of them won't truly get it until their standing in line a British airports, returning from holidays on the continent, and being incensed that they can't bring back the same amount of booze and fags as previously. Now it seem it'll be standing in A&E, being asked to cough up cash or insurance documents, bewildered that the NHS is no longer FatPoD...
Heard a comment on the radio this week that summed up the stupidity of Brexit voters. When asked how he thought we'd do splitting from the EU, this complete cockwomble replied 'We'll stuff them - we beat them in '45 and '66, we'll beat them now'.

Some people really shouldn't be allowed to vote....
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Old 8th June 2019, 01:33 AM   #2557
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Oooh, well happy the auto censor allows 'cockwomble'!
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Old 8th June 2019, 02:22 AM   #2558
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Much worse. Tory disarray should have been an absolute gift to an opposition party and he's completely failed to capitalise on it.
Exactly.
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Old 8th June 2019, 07:11 AM   #2559
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
Much worse. Tory disarray should have been an absolute gift to an opposition party and he's completely failed to capitalise on it.
David Mitchell in the Gruniad

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-tories-brexit

Quote:
Jeremy Corbyn really wants a general election. He blows hot and cold on a second referendum, but he’s always up for an election. I don’t think it’s a tactical thing – after last weekend’s European election results, his grounds for optimism are pretty shaky – I think he just likes general elections. “Let’s get back into the fray and stick it to the Tories!” is the feeling. I reckon it relaxes him. It’s a simple scenario: he knows which direction to strive in and to strive as hard as he can. He can stop losing at political chess and get back to the tug of war.

At heart he’s such a conservative. Small “C”, I hasten to emphasise. I’m not saying he isn’t leftwing. But he’s old school leftwing. He’s determined to find a way of winning the 1983 general election for Labour – it’s his Kobayashi Maru and he’s going to crack it. He’s a sincere reformer, a progressive, a socialist – it’s just his starting point doesn’t happen to be the current date. It’s like he wants to live in an Amish community and expend all his energy trying to persuade them to get a steam plough.
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Old 8th June 2019, 01:25 PM   #2560
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
big sigh..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...cial-occasions

here we go...

a competition for who can come across as the edgiest, to appeal to every demographic.
On badscience, a similar train of thought

Originally Posted by Pedantica
So who had Gove and Coke then, anyone?

Predict the next three revelations, one point for each.

My three picks are:
Boris Johnson & Magic Mushrooms
Dominic Raab & Anabolic Steroids
Wildcard: Matt Hancock & caffine-free PG Tips
ETA with this as the first reply

Originally Posted by Little waster
Originally Posted by Pedantica
So who had Gove and Coke then, anyone?
Well judging by his education reforms, crystal meth was always a strong possibility.
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