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24th June 2019, 12:58 AM | #2881 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Why? The conversation was loud enough to be heard in a neighboring flat. This is by definition a very public conversation, almost a public speech really.
Installing a hidden microphone would be different, recording a conversation that doesn't require more than a smartphone app in your own home isn't that controversial.
Quote:
McHrozni |
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24th June 2019, 02:34 AM | #2882 |
Penultimate Amazing
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24th June 2019, 02:58 AM | #2883 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Yes.
Gardens don't come with a roof but more importantly, the neighbor didn't have a recording device always running. He switched one on in order to record an incident that might result in someone getting injured or killed. If you're in a high-walled garden and get in a shouting match that ends in gunshots, getting recorded by a negihbor isn't a violation of your privacy. No matter what happened, even if the shots were blanks fired to spice up the wild make-up copulation. McHrozni |
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لا إله إلا رجل والعلوم والتكنولوجيا وأنبيائه |
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24th June 2019, 05:18 AM | #2884 |
puzzler
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The "concerned neighbour" didn't use the recording for giving evidence to the police. Instead (s)he gave (or sold?) it to a left-wing anti-brexit national newspaper.
The neighbourly thing to have done, after being informed by the police that no one was hurt and they were taking no further action, would have been to delete the recording. |
24th June 2019, 06:34 AM | #2885 |
BOFH
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Boris has made this election about personality. He's refused debates and basically said it just takes confidence and personality to get the Brexit people are said to want. If he makes it about his personality he can hardly complain (but of course he will) if his personality is then discussed.
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24th June 2019, 06:40 AM | #2886 |
puzzler
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"personality" is not the same thing as "private life".
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24th June 2019, 06:45 AM | #2887 |
Muse
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24th June 2019, 06:49 AM | #2888 |
Muse
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Keep it private then, don't let your private life be heard by your neighbours. Don't forget it wasn't just the neighbours that recorded the incident that heard it.
The neighbours didn't secretly plant listening devices in Boris's flat. If it wasn't for his arguments being heard in other parts of the building no one would have heard of any of this. |
24th June 2019, 07:15 AM | #2889 |
Penultimate Amazing
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There have been a number of similar arguments over the last few weeks apparently.
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24th June 2019, 08:01 AM | #2890 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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24th June 2019, 08:04 AM | #2891 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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24th June 2019, 08:31 AM | #2892 |
Philosopher
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Leave Brittney alone!!!
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24th June 2019, 10:06 AM | #2893 |
BOFH
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Boris Johnson defended the Sun printing photos of Prince Harry naked. Seems he's changed his tune.
https://twitter.com/SunApology/statu...68708459802624 |
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"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott. |
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24th June 2019, 10:20 AM | #2894 |
Penultimate Amazing
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How do you know that the recording was not played to the police, or that the police were at least not made aware of it?
How do you know the recording was not offered to various newspapers/media and it was just that the Guardian that offered to pay the most? Can I live next to you and disturb you with my shouting, since you think it is wrong to take action to stop it from happening again? |
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Audiophile/biker/sceptic |
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24th June 2019, 05:27 PM | #2895 |
Penultimate Amazing
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25th June 2019, 01:38 AM | #2896 |
Penultimate Amazing
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It's good to see that the right wing disinformation machine is working as designed. Instead of the story being about Boris Johnson and his intemperate behaviour, as far as most of the media (and thus most of the UK population) is concerned, the story is now about how mean Boris Johnson's partner's neighbours were to record him.
It's what they do and we on the left fall for it every time, feel obliged to engage fully to defend the story rather than just repeating what Boris has done. |
25th June 2019, 01:49 AM | #2897 |
Illuminator
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Latest conspiracy theory seems to be that the photo released showing Boris and his girlfriend in the garden seemingly quite happy, after the events of the weekend, is an old shot and not reflective of their current circumstances. Something to do with his hair being too long.
I'm really not sure I care. |
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25th June 2019, 01:56 AM | #2898 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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25th June 2019, 05:23 PM | #2899 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Brian Cox
Verified account @ProfBrianCox We are about to see the installation of a scoundrel as PM by a small cabal of ageing xenophobic golf club bores who will crash us out of the EU causing irreparable damage to our country and it can’t be stopped. Think about that. Voters cannot stop Johnson and cannot stop no deal. |
25th June 2019, 08:33 PM | #2900 |
post-pre-born
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26th June 2019, 12:33 AM | #2901 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Here's the article with the photo:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4175156.html They're a bit overdressed for a record-breaking heatwave, but Monday wasn't that hot in UK (~23°C in London according to AccuWeather, I can't vouch for accuracy) and they're sorrounded by nature. For an early morning chat their clothes aren't that out of the season. BJs' hair does contrast nicely with the other photos in the article though. A proper way to address the question would be an interview with Carrie Symonds, not a photo of her and BJ holding hands. That's where the issue ends, IMHO. McHrozni |
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26th June 2019, 12:42 AM | #2902 |
Penultimate Amazing
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We go to the pub every Tuesday after band practice. The pub is in a well-to-do part of South East Wales that was party of England until 1974. The clientele is pretty mixed by age, is roughly 50/50 incomer (like me and Mrs Don) or local and whilst most incomers are well off, quite a few of the locals are agricultural labourers or have similar poorly paid jobs.
Three members of the band lean left (by US standards, we've all left the Labour Party in recent years so are considered neo-liberals by the current Labour party and hated accordingly) but are probably the only ones over 35 there who do. Most people are Conservative voters. The pub was agog at the prospect of Boris Johnson as Prime Minister (they don't reckon that Hunt has a chance because he is a "traitor" - i.e. hasn't supported a no-deal Brexit from day 1) and think that he'll be able to get the "unicorns and rainbows" Brexit deal that we've been promised. If not, they are confident that a no-deal Brexit will be no big deal. The locals are confident that the agricultural subsidies they rely on will increase post-Brexit and the incomers (largely retired senior managers or directors of large companies) reckon that as soon as Brexit is achieved, countries will come begging to the UK for new trade deals - including the EU who will finally come to their senses. They're happy that the "immigrant problem" will finally be dealt with, though the only immigrants locally are Mrs Don who was from the US originally and a Danish midwife who has been in the UK since she came to start her nurses training 35 years ago, and that as a result locals will have affordable places to live (whilst at the same time incomers' property prices will be maintained and no new properties will have to be built - no, I don't know how that will happen either). All in all they are looking forward to a no-deal Brexit. Interestingly, one band member who is a dyed in the wool Conservative (though interestingly went to the same school as Jeremy Corbyn) has always insisted that he was a reluctant Remain supporter. Last night he was emboldened enough to state that he had voted Leave not because he wanted to Leave particularly but because of the very poor quality of the Remain campaign. If this is true, it means that after 3 years of lying about voting Leave he is coming clean. If not true then it seems that he, like so many Conservative MPs has jumped ship and changed his position. The incomers are fine, they are rich enough to be insulated from the worst effects of Brexit (though their children and grandchildren may not) as as retirees, they can afford to pull the ladder up after them. The locals may have a harder time. |
26th June 2019, 01:13 AM | #2903 |
Schrödinger's cat
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A remark I overheard yesterday from someone who I'm pretty sure voted Leave was that, as no country has left the EU before, no-one knows what the consequences will be. The implication seemed to be that the "doom mongering" can therefore be ignored.
I'm increasingly starting to think we should leave without a deal, just so that people like that get to find out what the consequences of voting to destroy your country's economy out of wilful ignorance and blind prejudice actually are. |
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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26th June 2019, 01:33 AM | #2904 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't, not least because I too will suffer the economic consequences from Brexit.
Those who have voted for Brexit and who support a no-deal IMO will literally never find out the consequences of their choice because they will blame any or all negative consequences on the EU, Remainers, previous incumbents or indeed simply ignore any negative consequences and claim that they either didn't happen or would have been far worse had we still been in the EU |
26th June 2019, 01:46 AM | #2905 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
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26th June 2019, 01:56 AM | #2906 |
Penultimate Amazing
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True. A band mate who was, until his retirement a couple of years ago, MD of a UK-based but globally selling bridge manufacturing company has pointed out that his experience of international trade leads him to anticipate that although there will be considerable short-term pain, the real risk to the UK will be in the long term.
Year on year, GDP growth will be somewhat lower than it would otherwise have been. UK business will have less influence on global standards and as a consequence will find itself increasingly on the outskirts of international trade rather than being influencers at the core which in turn will have an impact on whether investment will come to the UK or elsewhere (the UK's share of the EU's inward investment (that is money from outside the EU into the EU) has taken a sharp fall since the Brexit vote). There won't be bread riots on day 1 of Brexit (which will cause Brexiteers to call it a triumph ), but the UK will gradually slip out of the top 10,15 or 20 of global economies as other economies outgrow us. |
26th June 2019, 02:20 AM | #2907 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Likewise, the Brexit vote hit my wife's industry hard eventually leading to her redundancy at the end of last year, she was by far the greater bread winner in the household. I have a small business, two of my biggest regular customers are Polish and German, they've no intention of leaving the UK but I'd be noticeably poorer if they did. And I have a second job selling fine wines to the public, between the income squeeze and uncertainty it's been getting harder every year, this year has been awful so far and as it's commission only and I have to pay my own expenses it can actually end up costing me money. If the currency falls or we introduce tariffs that will be that.
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26th June 2019, 02:29 AM | #2908 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm starting to agree and furthermore, it should be BJ steering the ship. Nigel Farage would be my first choice, but since he isn't getting the wheel, BJ will have to do.
Horrible, attrocious, damaging? Yes. It's like chemo for cancer, in all aspects. The death of UK will serve as a permanent reminder of what happens if you allow populism to run unchecked. It will insulate the West from populistm for a generation or two, like WW2 did. Bad? Certainly. But the British brought it upon themselves. The rest of us can't help it. McHrozni |
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26th June 2019, 02:32 AM | #2909 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
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There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
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26th June 2019, 02:41 AM | #2910 |
puzzler
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If we leave and make a success of it, I wonder how all you doom-mongers will be capable of adjusting your world views to cope.
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26th June 2019, 02:45 AM | #2911 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Sorry to hear this
My business had a positive balance of trade with the EU to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year. Any Brexit will hit that very hard, a disorderly Brexit will likely result in the business being wound up. I see this sad pattern repeating across the economy. On another board I've taken flak from enthusiastic Brexiteers for the business not being able to take this kind of thing in its stride. IMO they're quite bonkers. |
26th June 2019, 02:58 AM | #2912 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
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There is truth and there are lies. - President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021 |
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26th June 2019, 03:10 AM | #2913 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Britain as a country, as a society, has. Not just by the referendum, that was simply the last straw. The society brought it upon itself by being overly tollerant of rampant populism, from populist right in this instance. The same goes for not changing the electoral system into something more modern, not having a written constitution and not holding lying politicians to account.
Not every single individual Brit is guilty of these of course, some did their fair share and fought against the tide, some did the bare minimum and were just outvoted, but far too many were far too tollerant of being told BS day in, day out, for decades on end. It's an emergent aspect that is not shared by all individuals of the society. Could you as an individual do more? Should you do more? I don't know. That's something you need to ask yourself. Am honest answer in a majority of Brits would be "yes" to both. That's how you the society brought it on yourself, even if you the individual might honestly answer "no" to both. That's what I'm talking about. McHrozni |
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26th June 2019, 03:12 AM | #2914 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
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Also, define when this success might be established. 10 or 20 years of repairing the damage followed by 'success' that can't even be measured against what might have been without Brexit?
A hard Brexit might lead to irreparable damage to the B household if we lost reciprocal health care rights. It means irreparable damage to those driven to the closure of their businesses in the interim, and so on. |
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26th June 2019, 03:22 AM | #2915 |
No longer the 1
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Have you read Max Hastings on Johnson?
I was Boris Johnson’s boss: he is utterly unfit to be prime minister That's Max Hastings the Telegraph editor, though I suppose the Brexiteers will be condemning his as a liberal now.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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26th June 2019, 03:26 AM | #2916 |
No longer the 1
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We've a big garden and can loan you a tent...
Ah, the Imperial Delusion. Rather like Trump's support among teh Dumb, Deluded and Desperate, Brexiteers tend to be either insulated for the effects and greedy or too ignorant of reality to comprehend the consequences. |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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26th June 2019, 03:27 AM | #2917 |
No longer the 1
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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26th June 2019, 03:46 AM | #2918 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'll be delighted and will readily admit that I was completely wrong about Brexit. Of course it depends on how you define success. At the moment, it seems that those who are keen on Brexit are setting the bar pretty low - a lack of complete economic collapse and an absence of bread riots will likely be proclaimed a success.
During the Leave campaign we were promised a smooth transition to the post-Brexit world, economic growth above and beyond what we could expect if we remained in the EU, lots of extra money for the NHS and other important public services and a network of trade deals far superior to those we already have. For Brexit to be a success, I would expect all of this at a bare minimum. My expectations of success are not high. |
26th June 2019, 03:46 AM | #2919 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 11,919
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I think the term here is not "find out", but "accept". You're right that a very large proportion of Brexiteers will never accept they were fooled and led the country into disaster.
Enough will however, they will recognize the loony right is insane and work against them. With any luck they will band together to keep the idiot Brexitards away from anything useful for the foreseeable future. I can tell you this would've happened already, if you had proportionally elected parliament. With direct representation and FPTP you need a tad of luck too. A trainwreck no deal Brexit will help a lot, it will kill the very idea of Brexit. It won't be worth the price and I strongly recommend doing something, anything else, but even the worst-case scenario sees BJ, Nigel and their ilk losing. They just take everyone else down with them. Joy. McHrozni |
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26th June 2019, 04:32 AM | #2920 |
Philosopher
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Oh for...
If it works out, great. And by that I mean not having the country suffer unduly over the next few years, and not have the country struggle to maintain living standards, and not having the country making shoddy deals in order to make ends meet, and not essentially selling my kids future down the swanny. I don't want Bresit-types bleating about how it's all going to work out in the end, as the economy slides. I want this to work out pretty much from the off. None of Rees-Moggs "we won't see benefits for up to 50 years" ********. Why do I want that? Because I don't want to be paying squit diddly for someone else's deranged fantasies. And I don't want my kids having to pick up the tab for morons. My favourite bit is:
Originally Posted by Hitler Hastings
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