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Tags poland , white supremacists

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Old Yesterday, 05:45 AM   #41
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
And you know better
Of course I do. It's not that hard to know better than neo-nazis, you should try it once.

Quote:
Do you think they don't notice that Western Europe is so much nicer and more prosperous than Eastern Europe?
It is now, after the fall of the Warsaw pact. Before that it was the other way around. Which you could easily determine by noticing that out of the groups which resettled from East Germany to West Germany almost all chose to return just a few years later.

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the decades long oppression of Poland
Only exists in your head. The Polish aristocracy was oppressed, as well as the more brutal members of the military of the previous regime and various fascist groups, which can only be applauded.

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can be mocked
Just like white people complaining about being oppressed by black people because they're not allowed to lynch them anymore can be mocked.

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I am quite admiring of socialists who implement socialism without violence, coersion, or stealing. The other kind are bitter, angry people who are quite prone to killing people in large numbers. The former generally take extreme measures to avoid killing people.
Oh please. You're doing nothing but whine about how the rulers and collaborators of a brutal military dictatorship (the Polish second republic) ended up being "oppressed" after the communists took over. How dare the communists free the servants of the ruling aristocracy, those commies are just soooo oppressive! It makes your political position quite clear.
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 AM   #42
Oystein
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
...

I guess that's what I was getting at. There are quite a few people in Europe who are not happy with the high rates of immigration, and I think some of them have good reasons.
None of them can be in Poland, or Hungary or Slovakia, for there is practically zero immigration. Lots of emmigration, though.

In Germany, there is a strong negative correlation between local percentage of immigrants on one hand, and racist crime or votes for neonazi parties on the other: the more immigrants people actually interact with, have personal experiences with, the LESS likely they are to support right-wing nonsense.
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Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM   #43
Mycroft
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Of course I do. It's not that hard to know better than neo-nazis, you should try it once.
Being smarter than neo-Nazis is a very low bar. An even lower bar is being smarter than an anarcho-communist.

I think if you want to tell them communism is their solution that you will need very compelling evidence. They have literally generations of experience with that and it's left

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
It is now, after the fall of the Warsaw pact. Before that it was the other way around.
You're claiming that life in Soviet Poland was better than, say life in Western Germany at the same period?

Let's see your evidence.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Which you could easily determine by noticing that out of the groups which resettled from East Germany to West Germany almost all chose to return just a few years later.
Very confused thinking on your part. That they wanted to leave in the first place is evidence that things were not better before, that they wanted to return a few years later is evidence that things had improved.

What changed? Where did these improvements come from?

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Only exists in your head. The Polish aristocracy was oppressed, as well as the more brutal members of the military of the previous regime and various fascist groups, which can only be applauded.
I suppose in your mind this covers the Katyn massacre, the internment of the Polish soldiers, the rigged elections, the NKVD prissoner massacre, the mass deportations, the arrests of politicians, scientist, civil servants, clergy and anyone who could be called "intelligentsia". In your mind they all "had it comming"?

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Just like white people complaining about being oppressed by black people because they're not allowed to lynch them anymore can be mocked.
Is equality for black people the same as Soviet imperialism? I don't think so. One is elevating a minority to the same privileged class as the majority, the other is brutal murder, theft and oppression.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Oh please. You're doing nothing but whine about how the rulers and collaborators of a brutal military dictatorship (the Polish second republic) ended up being "oppressed" after the communists took over. How dare the communists free the servants of the ruling aristocracy, those commies are just soooo oppressive! It makes your political position quite clear.
That was so awful that the Soviet Union was justified in collaborating with the Nazis to destroy it?

I can name lots and lots of examples of Soviet oppression of the Polish people after the soviets took over, but it's much harder to find examples of how the Polish were oppressed by their own government before. Can you name some?
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Old Yesterday, 12:19 PM   #44
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You're claiming that life in Soviet Poland was better than, say life in Western Germany at the same period?

Let's see your evidence.
I thought you had "generations of experience" to listen to?

Quote:
Very confused thinking on your part. That they wanted to leave in the first place is evidence that things were not better before, that they wanted to return a few years later is evidence that things had improved.
No, that they wanted to leave is evidence that they believed in an advertised socio-economic system. That they wanted to return a few years later is evidence that their experience with the reality of said socio-economic system enabled them to finally understand that it only works as advertised when you're part of the few aristocrats rather than the many servants.

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What changed?
They stopped being total morons.

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Where did these improvements come from?
Their confrontation with the actual reality of said socio-economic system rather than merely its propaganda.

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Is equality for black people the same as Soviet imperialism?
Intriguingly, yes. Racial equality is one of the many achievements of the USSR.

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I can name lots and lots of examples of Soviet oppression of the Polish people after the soviets took over
Bet you 10$ you can't name a single one. Or at least not a single one where the oppression is based on being a member of the "Polish people" as such, rather than just happenstance. For example expropriating a Polish wealthy landowner and redistributing the land is not oppression of the "Polish people" as such, given that the recipients of the land are equally Polish. Same for, say, expropriating large estates to house the homeless.

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but it's much harder to find examples of how the Polish were oppressed by their own government before. Can you name some?
If you close your eyes really hard it's totally possible to miss that military dictatorship rigging elections, imprisoning political opponents - especially communists, and brutally suppressing dissent.
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"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin
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