ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

Reply
Old Yesterday, 06:58 PM   #881
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,627
They just can't get the voters out like him.

Exclusive Polling: Iowa Youth Poised for Historic Caucus Turnout
Venom is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:09 PM   #882
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 23,530
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Of course referring to workers as "wage slaves" has long been part of the rhetoric of the far Left, but try explaining that to the woke folk.
How do you distinguish the merely left from the "far left"? Where do the leading candidates fall on your spectrum?

Where does Trump fall on the right side of your spectrum? Jim Jordan(OH)? Devin Nunes?

I'm trying to get a calibration on your posts.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:19 PM   #883
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 23,530
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
How much of her plan depends on Congress to pass bills for her to sign?
We know the answer to this question as stated by McConnell just after the 2008 election: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president. " Yes, that's a direct quote. So it doesn't matter who the Dems elect, the Senate (if it stays in Republican hands) will take the same approach again.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM   #884
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 23,530
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Another difference is Steyer doesn't identify as a *.Socialist. The label is a enormous risk in the general.
IMO.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:54 PM   #885
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,931
A repeated record of selective and manipulative presentation by a source is absolutely relevant to considering the veracity of new claims they are making.

Ad hom is only a fallacy if the attribute the arguer possesses which is made note of is unrelated to the matter being discussed. In this case, it is that once we see or hear raw, unedited media, the apparent outrageous behavior purportedly shown in the edited version is revealed for the clear misrepresentation that it is.

It's low hanging fruit, anyways. Auspicious titles are handed out like candy for campaign workers. It helps morale. A volunteer with a clipboard on the sidewalk is a "community outreach specialist - tier 2" for crying out loud. Wow, you can catch 20-something campaign workers on tape spewing their crazy rhetoric. Congrats. That's like 11 degrees of separation from the actual candidate or anyone in the campaign that actually matters.

Meanwhile I can turn on C-SPAN and wait for someone with an R after their name to start talking and hear a person who can actually influence my life in meaningful ways talk about some ******* crazy stuff.
Delphic Oracle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:08 PM   #886
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,289
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
We know the answer to this question as stated by McConnell just after the 2008 election: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president. " Yes, that's a direct quote. So it doesn't matter who the Dems elect, the Senate (if it stays in Republican hands) will take the same approach again.
I guess it probably does matter who the Dems elect. If they elect someone whose policies depend on Senate cooperation, then they might be disappointed and frustrated for a few more years.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:13 PM   #887
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,627
They can make use of the bully pulpit like how Sanders pressured Amazon to raise worker wages.

Sanders explicitly has said that if Republicans obstruct he will raise hell in their state, he'll expose them unlike anyone has done before to their constituents.
Venom is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:25 PM   #888
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,289
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
They can make use of the bully pulpit like how Sanders pressured Amazon to raise worker wages.

Sanders explicitly has said that if Republicans obstruct he will raise hell in their state, he'll expose them unlike anyone has done before to their constituents.
"Enact my agenda or I'll become the John Wick of character assassination."
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 08:45 PM   #889
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 78,163
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
They just can't get the voters out like him.

Exclusive Polling: Iowa Youth Poised for Historic Caucus Turnout
WA Democratic caucuses were an eye opener in 2016. It was overrun with Bernie bros who dominated everything.

But when the actual vote was taken, the state was strongly for Clinton.

Caucuses are not always a good indicator.
__________________
TRUMP CHEATS What color hat should I order with that logo? Red on black maybe? Or black on pink?

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:18 PM   #890
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Enact my agenda or I'll become the John Wick of character assassination."
Yesterday upset about O'Keefe being maligned.

Today upset about character assassination imagined taking place in a hypothetical future.

Amazing consistency.
Delphic Oracle is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM   #891
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 10,377
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Enact my agenda or I'll become the John Wick of character assassination."
Donald, is that you?
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 10:18 PM   #892
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,627
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Enact my agenda or I'll become the John Wick of character assassination."
LOL

Hey, it worked against the world's most powerful CEO. How much more arm-twisting would it take to break these career politicians, really? If you're playing games he's gonna fly to your city, expose your otherwise opaque agenda to the electorate, plaster your name on every wall and call you out on national television, just make your life a living hell.

Bernie calls himself the Organizer in Chief. He'll make it happen.
Venom is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 09:15 AM   #893
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,289
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Yesterday upset about O'Keefe being maligned.

Today upset about character assassination imagined taking place in a hypothetical future.

Amazing consistency.
Not upset. Interested.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 10:33 AM   #894
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,354
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Enact my agenda or I'll become the John Wick of character assassination."
"Put your head on a pike", even.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

Last edited by Distracted1; Today at 10:34 AM.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 10:58 AM   #895
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 21,979
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:12 PM   #896
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,315
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
How do you distinguish the merely left from the "far left"? Where do the leading candidates fall on your spectrum?

Where does Trump fall on the right side of your spectrum? Jim Jordan(OH)? Devin Nunes?

I'm trying to get a calibration on your posts.
Biden & Bloomberg: Moderate Liberal
Buttigieg: Liberal
Warren: Left
Sanders: Far Left

Trump has governed as Right (about as far away from the center but on the opposite side as Warren), and his rhetoric has been more Far Right--not quite in the Pat Buchanan class, but not too far off. I'm not sure how much of that is political calculation (tamping down his right flank) and how much of it is deeply held beliefs. He was certainly a liberal back around 2000.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:22 PM   #897
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 23,951
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Biden & Bloomberg: Moderate Liberal
Buttigieg: Liberal
Warren: Left
Sanders: Far Left

Trump has governed as Right (about as far away from the center but on the opposite side as Warren), and his rhetoric has been more Far Right--not quite in the Pat Buchanan class, but not too far off. I'm not sure how much of that is political calculation (tamping down his right flank) and how much of it is deeply held beliefs. He was certainly a liberal back around 2000.
How about

Attila the Hun
Ghengis Kan
Francisco Franco
or
Benito Mussolini?

Are they liberals too or do they qualify as moderates?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:37 PM   #898
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,315
Bernie's getting some good news out of Iowa:

Quote:
A new New York Times/Siena College poll of likely Iowa caucusgoers finds Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders with a clear lead at 25%, former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg at 18%, former Vice President Joe Biden at 17%, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren at 15% and Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar at 8%.
Joe Rogan semi-endorsed Bernie, which Vice feels is very important:

Quote:
Joe Rogan is one of the most influential people in media. That doesn't mean he's a good interviewer or a responsible communicator when speaking to a large and devoted audience, but it is a fact. It's hard to pinpoint the exact size of his podcast's audience, but Rogan’s official YouTube channel has 7.3 million subscribers and he recently claimed his podcast gets 190 million downloads a month.
Sanders took a little flak for highlighting the semi-endorsement; inevitably some of Rogan's past comments are getting the twitterstorm treatment. He's transphobic (he opposed letting a trans woman fight women in MMA), he's racist, which refers to a pretty racist comment about going to see Planet of the Apes among the apes (he saw the movie in a theater that was nearly all black).
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

Last edited by Brainster; Today at 12:53 PM.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:46 PM   #899
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,627
Rogan's a good guy. He's a no-nonsense sorta rough around the edges but not too much. I'm glad he endorsed Bernie but I don't know what to feel about Bernie playing it up.

Much of his audience still dwells on the few states who allow transsexual MMA fighters to compete with females. As if that's so much more important than anything else, right? As if compulsive xenophobia and AGW denial and a broken foreign policy are side issues.
Venom is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:52 PM   #900
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,455
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Quote:
Another difference is Steyer doesn't identify as a *.Socialist. The label is a enormous risk in the general.
IMO.
I think there is evidence to support that the 'socialist' label might be damaging:

From: https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...not-vote-for-a
In a new Hill.TV/HarrisX American Barometer poll released Tuesday, an overwhelming majority of respondents, 76 percent, said they would not vote for a “socialist” political candidate...

Now, keep in mind that doesn't necessarily mean that people will be opposed to individual government policies (like expanded medicare, etc.) Its just the "label" socialist that seems to be the issue.

And yes, I recognize that the GOP will probably try to tarnish any Democratic candidate with the 'socialist' label (even if they get the re-animated corpse of Reagan to run as a Democrat). I do think it will make a little bit of a difference if that label is applied externally (for example by the GOP) or whether it is a self-description (like Sanders' past statements.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:52 PM   #901
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,289
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
"Put your head on a pike", even.
Schiff said it, you believe it, that settles it!
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:21 PM   #902
BrooklynBaby
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,005
Biden corruption update from Lindsey Graham:

"Where’s the outrage of people on the ground in Ukraine in 2014, ’15 and ’16 when they knew the vice president’s son, Hunter Biden, was being paid by the most corrupt company in Ukraine? Why didn’t some to call Washington and say this undercuts our message, it’s not bad government? So, I want an oversight of the Bidens. I’d like it to be outside of politics. But if it has to be done by the Congress, so be it. But I am not going to live in a country where the Trump family can be investigated for years, spend millions of dollars on legal fees, and the Democratic vice president’s son takes $3 million on the most corrupt gas company in the Ukraine, and nobody gives a damn. We’re not going to live in that country."

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020...of-the-bidens/
BrooklynBaby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:35 PM   #903
The_Animus
Illuminator
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,106
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
He's transphobic (he opposed letting a trans woman fight women in MMA),
Is this accurate? I thought it was the other way around. That he didn't feel it was fair for men who transitioned to women to compete against women because they would have a biological advantage.

Weightlifting is one such example where the difference is very apparent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._weightlifting

This would likely hold for MMA as well.
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:38 PM   #904
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,289
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
Is this accurate? I thought it was the other way around. That he didn't feel it was fair for men who transitioned to women to compete against women because they would have a biological advantage.

Weightlifting is one such example where the difference is very apparent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._weightlifting

This would likely hold for MMA as well.
A transwoman is a man who has transitioned to a woman.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:52 PM   #905
BrooklynBaby
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,005
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
A transwoman is a man who has transitioned to a woman.
But it is impossible for a man to change into a woman. It's a matter of science.
BrooklynBaby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:59 PM   #906
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,289
Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
But it is impossible for a man to change into a woman. It's a matter of science.
Not relevant in this context. There's a whole thread dedicated to debating the point you're trying to make. Please go find that thread if this is the argument you want.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:27 PM   #907
Tero
Graduate Poster
 
Tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North American prairie
Posts: 1,714
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
There's a reason it's the paper given away free in lower middle class motels. That's how they can boast of having the widest circulation. For years it also boasted of having the most pictures, in color.
Yeah I know. I was once out of the country for 3 weeks, the days before the internet. It was an outdoors vacation so I had seen no TV. I got to the aiport and had time to wait so I looked for Newsweek at the news stand. Had to settle for Time.
Tero is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:46 PM   #908
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 21,979
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Biden & Bloomberg: Moderate Liberal
Buttigieg: Liberal
Warren: Left
Sanders: Far Left

Trump has governed as Right (about as far away from the center but on the opposite side as Warren), and his rhetoric has been more Far Right--not quite in the Pat Buchanan class, but not too far off. I'm not sure how much of that is political calculation (tamping down his right flank) and how much of it is deeply held beliefs. He was certainly a liberal back around 2000.
Being equitable and not pandering office to billionaires is “far left.” Lets all just calm down. Dont want to elect another extremist.
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:48 PM   #909
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 21,979
Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
But it is impossible for a man to change into a woman. It's a matter of science.
Why don’t you take these moronic ideas about gender and **** off to a more appropriate thread. Thx.
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:00 PM   #910
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,758
Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Biden corruption update from Lindsey Graham:

"Where’s the outrage of people on the ground in Ukraine in 2014, ’15 and ’16 when they knew the vice president’s son, Hunter Biden, was being paid by the most corrupt company in Ukraine? Why didn’t some to call Washington and say this undercuts our message, it’s not bad government? So, I want an oversight of the Bidens. I’d like it to be outside of politics. But if it has to be done by the Congress, so be it. But I am not going to live in a country where the Trump family can be investigated for years, spend millions of dollars on legal fees, and the Democratic vice president’s son takes $3 million on the most corrupt gas company in the Ukraine, and nobody gives a damn. We’re not going to live in that country."

https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2020...of-the-bidens/
I'd be more inclined to take this seriously if it weren't coming from 1) Lindsey Graham - seriously, at this point, why is anyone treating him as anything other than a terrible joke that just keeps getting more and more idiotic and out of date since Trump became President? - and 2) Breitbart, which really doesn't care about truth anyways, but rather trucks in extremist right-wing propaganda. If you need more? Where's the outrage about what the GOP did to Hillary as part of their political witch hunting? Hillary actually *has* repeatedly been exonerated. Trump, on the other hand, has been investigated with very firm basis, unlike both of the Clintons. Trump has not been exonerated. Rather, actual firm evidence of crime by Trump just keeps coming out, despite Trump's numerous moves to lie about such and obstruct justice, especially by withholding validly subpeonaed evidence (which he brags about doing, no less).
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; Today at 03:18 PM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:17 PM   #911
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,395
Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Rogan's a good guy. He's a no-nonsense sorta rough around the edges but not too much. I'm glad he endorsed Bernie but I don't know what to feel about Bernie playing it up.

Much of his audience still dwells on the few states who allow transsexual MMA fighters to compete with females. As if that's so much more important than anything else, right? As if compulsive xenophobia and AGW denial and a broken foreign policy are side issues.
This one's already blown up in his face online.

Usual caveat: online isn't necessarily reflective of the overall electorate. And a second one: I've defended Rogan on this board to a mild degree - he's a decent interviewer overall who sometimes really manages to call BS on people. I think there are much better podcasts out there overall - but also far worse.

There are a *lot* of people outside of MMA and dudbro groups that view him as an entry to the Nazi wannabe internet culture, and those very close to it such as the Proud Boys. And in truth, they're likely not wrong - he's had painfully friendly interviews with the likes of Stefan Molyneaux, Alex Jones, Sargon of Akkad, and Milo Yourmomsasnitch. And these groups are a major part of the dem coalition, and are naturally uninterested in sitting next to, and working with, people who actively want them disenfranchised and/or killed by the government. Add to this Bernie's long-standing class reductionism (to translate: he has a bad habit of assuming that bigotry is caused by "economic anxiety", when we actually find that people will happily sacrifice economically if it means they can play out their bigotries), and his pre-existing issues with the "Bernie Bro" faction of his own base, and you end up with a good portion of the online base becoming extremely angry.

(I think the anger is somewhat overblown - for example, there's a video of him saying "the N-word", but many of the clips look like he's quoting some racist, which I think is reasonable as much as it makes me shudder...but I definitely would have advised against releasing any such ad, because this is exactly the sort of online explosion I would expect to happen in response)

Last edited by Mumbles; Today at 03:21 PM.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:39 PM   #912
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,627
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
There are a *lot* of people outside of MMA and dudbro groups that view him as an entry to the Nazi wannabe internet culture, and those very close to it such as the Proud Boys. And in truth, they're likely not wrong - he's had painfully friendly interviews with the likes of Stefan Molyneaux, Alex Jones, Sargon of Akkad, and Milo Yourmomsasnitch. And these groups are a major part of the dem coalition, and are naturally uninterested in sitting next to, and working with, people who actively want them disenfranchised and/or killed by the government. Add to this Bernie's long-standing class reductionism (to translate: he has a bad habit of assuming that bigotry is caused by "economic anxiety", when we actually find that people will happily sacrifice economically if it means they can play out their bigotries), and his pre-existing issues with the "Bernie Bro" faction of his own base, and you end up with a good portion of the online base becoming extremely angry.

(I think this anger is somewhat overblown...but I definitely would have advised against releasing any such ad, because this is exactly the sort of online explosion I would expect to happen in response)
That's what frustrates me about Rogan. He's too nice and carefree a guy that sometimes he allows these scumbag grifters a platform on his show. Politics and even social issues just are not at the forefront for him.

Bernie's reduction of everything to economic anxiety does get on my nerves as well. It's perhaps easier to swallow for the Rust Belt voters, but he does mention the racism, the xenophobia and sexism, albeit portrayed as a backlash to economic hardship.

We could talk about how racism and sexism influenced the 2016 results in middle America and the Rust Belt, but everyone by now knows that won't be enough to win over voters. I wouldn't be surprised if it was carefully framed this way by Sanders. No academic exercise in examining the intricacies of racial bias can be asked of the electorate right now. I guess this is how it has to be for now.
Venom is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:45 PM   #913
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,196
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think there is evidence to support that the 'socialist' label might be damaging:

From: https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...not-vote-for-a
In a new Hill.TV/HarrisX American Barometer poll released Tuesday, an overwhelming majority of respondents, 76 percent, said they would not vote for a “socialist” political candidate...

Now, keep in mind that doesn't necessarily mean that people will be opposed to individual government policies (like expanded medicare, etc.) Its just the "label" socialist that seems to be the issue.

And yes, I recognize that the GOP will probably try to tarnish any Democratic candidate with the 'socialist' label (even if they get the re-animated corpse of Reagan to run as a Democrat). I do think it will make a little bit of a difference if that label is applied externally (for example by the GOP) or whether it is a self-description (like Sanders' past statements.)
It also doesn’t necessarily mean people won’t vote for Sanders. If you asked people whether they would vote for a guy who said “grab em by the pussay’ a vast majority of people would probably say no. But the reality is otherwise.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:48 PM   #914
Distracted1
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 3,354
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It also doesn’t necessarily mean people won’t vote for Sanders. If you asked people whether they would vote for a guy who said “grab em by the pussay’ a vast majority of people would probably say no. But the reality is otherwise.
The majority of Americans did not vote for a man who said that.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.
Distracted1 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 03:52 PM   #915
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,196
Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The majority of Americans did not vote for a man who said that.
I said a “vast majority” would say no. I mean what percentage do you think would answer “yes” to a question like that? Maybe 10 per cent? More than that voted for Trump.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 04:34 PM   #916
Cabbage
Graduate Poster
 
Cabbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,952
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I think there is evidence to support that the 'socialist' label might be damaging:

From: https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-amer...not-vote-for-a
In a new Hill.TV/HarrisX American Barometer poll released Tuesday, an overwhelming majority of respondents, 76 percent, said they would not vote for a “socialist” political candidate...

I don't think that supports the claim that simply the label of socialism is damaging. I think most people are aware there is a difference between being a socialist and being labeled a socialist. What the poll supports is relevant to the former, not the latter. Not to mention, the perception of who is/is not a socialist varies widely from person to person.

I can easily imagine someone thinking they would never vote for a socialist while simultaneously choosing to vote for Sanders, deciding that he is not really a socialist, despite what he or anyone else says. Indeed, I believe this contrast is supported by the fact that Sanders generally polls better than Trump.
Cabbage is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:23 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.