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Old 10th December 2019, 07:01 AM   #161
Matthew Best
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How awfully kind of you to track my messages.
I'm not even sure what that means, unless it means that I'm reading your posts, which is presumably what I'm supposed to do with them, though admittedly I can think of better uses of my time.

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I am so honoured to have this privilege not afforded to others.
Actually I read most people's posts on a thread I'm interested in. You're not that special.

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Do let me know if you spot any more spelling mistakes, names not being my strongest point.
I will! I'm glad to have this request to point to in future.

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Gosh, I am so lucky to have my own personal monitor.
Yes, you are.
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Old 10th December 2019, 07:41 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
This is not different to what I said. Geneva convention stipulates the treatment of PoWs, who deserves the PoW status and gives the minimum standard to the rest (keep them alive and don't deliberately harm them).

Unlawful combatant is the civilian (according to you) who actively participates in the conflict in a way not covered by the Convention (i.e. a civilian contractor for the armed force). A member of a volunteer militia that pisses on customs and laws of warfare certainly qualifies, the Convention explicitly discounts those from people entitled to PoW status. The only thing international law demands of you is to keep them alive and not torture them, that's it.

National law may provide other limitations, which is the cynical reason as to why Guantanamo bay is used to house them. US Constitution does not apply in Cuba and Guantanamo bay is Cuban soil. Yes, of course you can argue this is bollocks and you'd be right too, but what do you do then? There is no provision in US law for foreign unlawful combatants and you clearly can't let these people go the moment you catch them. You don't want to execute them either, lawfully other otherwise.

Treatment of former members of ISIS exposed a blind spot in international law that should be covered. That does not mean these people deserve the status of a PoW and they can't stand a criminal trial either - there is no competent authority where they could stand trial. That doesn't mean they should be let go, it means the international law is deficient and faulty in the edge case of a failed state.

The correct response to such a problem is to establish international law that would cover those cases. The incorrect response is to apply a law at random, even when that law explicitly excludes their circumstance. You wouldn't apply UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, article 105 (it deals with captured pirates) would you? I mean, it requires you to sieze an aircraft or a ship, so that's obviously faulty. So why do you think the Geneva convention would apply? It just as explicitly excludes militias such as ISIS, after all.
Your wilful misinterpretation of the GC is boring me now.
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Old 11th December 2019, 11:46 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Your wilful misinterpretation of the GC is boring me now.
I'm sorry, but that's how GC is interpreted and was intended to be interpreted. You see, at the time of writing, no one imagined private armies would ever be able to challenge the power of the states. It was believed at the time private armies or militias were a thing of the past, that modern weapons made such approach obsolete. It turns out this was false.

Not to worry though, there was one more line of defence: it was also assumed any country that faced militias on their territory would either deal with them itself or have a coalition help them take the militias out on their behalf, because the militias threaten them, first and foremost. Any foreign hostile forces would be invading the country and the situation would be a proper war and rules of war would apply.

But then ISIS came along and that no longer applied.

The foresight of GC was strong though, there was a last line of defence: surely no participant in conflict would be stupid enough to violate laws and norms of warfare, if that meant he could be treated like a common thug and strung up to the nearest tree. There were so many upsides to the PoW status it was surely enough to motivate combatants to adhere to laws of warfare.

But ISIS turned that on its head too and went out of their way to prove it to the whole world.

GC and international law sorely needs an update to deal with international terrorists who also run private parastate organizations. There's a hole in the present system in that members of ISIS do not qualify for PoW status and you can't hold trials for anything else either, due to the principle of territoriality. At the same time you can't afford to let them just frolic around either.

But granting them PoW status when the GC explicity excludes them from being eligable for PoW makes less sense as applying the laws against piracy on the high seas to them. At least piracy on the high seas does not go out of its way to exclude them as pirates.

McHrozni
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Old 12th December 2019, 01:06 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yes, but the perception could have been that 'hey, this is a disgusting vile murderer scum who cares if the police take him out?'

As that is not the police's function, it is quite valid for Arcade22 to ask the question, could he have been arrested instead? As that is what the independent police commission will also be addressing then it is obviously not a incredibly uninformed and ludicrous insinuation.
Yes - it is a perception. An incredibly uninformed and ludicrous perception. The investigation is politically motivated as it will be just covering the same ground that the one did in the Menzes shooting. However, that is what it has come to these days of mass media which allows even the most ludicrously uniformed and dense people to clamour about something that they do not understand nor care to educate themselves about. Now precious resources have to be wasted on covering old ground in a three ring circus to satisfy the braying asses.
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Old 12th December 2019, 10:12 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Whether you or Arcade22 made the accusation the fact still stands: They were not meting out justice. Therefore, the question is certainly not valid no matter who is making the incredibly uninformed and ludicrous insinuation.
No wonder you were so eager to defend the cops who let a suspected suicide bomber onto public transportation only to be "forced" to shoot him to death because they feared he was a suicide bomber (and then subsequently "leaked" completely made up details about said shooting to journalists in an attempt to make it seem justified to the public).
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Old 12th December 2019, 10:37 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
As already mentioned, they often target the police or other security services, so wait until they arrive.
In this case, like quite a few others, they were waiting for the cops to show up so they could be killed by them.

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Those are possibilities, but there are others, such as the terrorist is waiting for a better moment, or is having second thoughts. In the latter case, maybe they could be apprehended alive, but I can understand why the police tactics don't allow for this, once a suicide vest is apparent.
So they are so afraid he might detonate his bomb that the the only option available is to shoot him repeatedly until they are sure he's dead, but to do that they have to approach him so closely that they stand right besides him, because they have to push or lift away the guys who are restraining him, in order to get a clear shot? Not to mention that they risk seriously wounding or killing people in traffic and the civilians in proximity because of ricochets.

That's the whole thing that's bothersome of this specific killing: the factors that make it "necessary" to kill him (that is, self preservation and preventing more injuries or deaths) are partly exacerbated by the law-enforcement's own actions.
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Old 21st December 2019, 01:25 PM   #167
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Details from one of the guys with a narwhal tusk.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-bridge-attack
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Old 24th December 2019, 06:16 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Details from one of the guys with a narwhal tusk.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-bridge-attack
Yes, a civil servant. Not sure how that meet's Casbro's "violent prone" requirement.
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