ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING!

Reply
Old 8th December 2019, 06:19 PM   #281
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,510
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Damn....busted.
I made up the bit about owning a propane patio heater, but if I did own one, I'd name it Greta.
In fact, you made up everything you have posted in this thread. Never, ever consider stand-up as a career choice. I suggest telephone sales.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 06:45 PM   #282
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
 
Skeptical Greg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Just past ' Resume Speed ' .
Posts: 15,818
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
If you are tied up in knots about “easy” just ignore that and let me change it to “quickly” which Germany managed to do.
Busted!

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No they haven't. They've announced plans to do it, but they haven't done it yet. We'll have to wait to see if they can actually succeed.
( Thanks Ziggurat )

I'm not tied up in knots about anything, but I wonder about some people and their obsession with a 15 year old activist.
__________________
" The main problem I have with the idea of heaven, is the thought of
spending eternity with most of the people who claim to be going there. "
Skeptical Greg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 06:50 PM   #283
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,076
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Damn....busted.
I made up the bit about owning a propane patio heater, but if I did own one, I'd name it Greta.

On my twooo seeeateerr
Sittin' next to my.... propaaaaanneee heataaar!
Eatin' a Fajita!!
Talk'in 'bout Gretaaa!
Wihile watch'n Bluuuueee Peter!
On video tape beeetttaaa!
Probably never will meet ha!!!

I could be a rap star for the environment
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 8th December 2019 at 07:15 PM.
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 07:57 PM   #284
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
Pronouns: he/him
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 65,238
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I could be a rap star for the environment
Don't give up your day job.
__________________
Self-described nerd.

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 08:05 PM   #285
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,076
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Don't give up your day job.
Your just angry I didn't mention............

The idiot orange Tweetaaaaaar!
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 08:07 PM   #286
lobosrul5
Graduate Poster
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,871
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I have no issue with any of these ideas as ways to quickly reduce carbon emissions. Implemented quickly they would, of course, destroy the world’s economy. This would inevitably result in millions of deaths so in the long run the earh’s collective population may be no better off than trying to live in a warmer world.

However, as much as I appreciate this sensible post from you, the question was asked of ThisIsTheLife. I would like to see their answer.
I'm not sure it would, ok done overnight it would. We could demand more vacation time, as Americans, so we can travel by rail and ship. Business travel can be replaced via telecommunications. Air travel though only accounts for 2.5% of C02 emissions though.

Livestock: probably a good compromise would be to end artificial feed. Grassland that can support livestock can be used as such, otherwise we're taking net food production down. That would greatly reduced methane emissions.
lobosrul5 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 11:05 PM   #287
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,213
Interview with Greta Thunberg

– Apparently I am quite bad at giving speeches. Because what people bring up from the speech in New York is me sitting and saying: ”How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood” and that is not what I want to communicate. I want to communicate facts. And if you leave out what the rest of the speech is all about, if you only take out three sentences, then that makes me sound like an idiot.

I don’t give speeches so that I in some magical way will talk world leaders into realizing that I am right and they are wrong. My long term goal is that the gap between what science is saying and what is actually being done is made so clear that it can no longer be ignored.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 11:40 PM   #288
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 41,627
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I dropped back in to this thread to discover that the current argument is:

“Ha! Ha! Nothing got done about climate change because of Al Gore! Nothing will get done about climate change because of Greta Thunberg! Ha, ha, ha - she and her followers are just idiots to think otherwise! It is all useless! Snort, laugh...”

Well, I hope you guys think about what the implications of this argument are and if anyone who really believes it should find much amusement in it. I’m not sure celebrating someone’s alleged ineffectiveness in this area is a great idea. I also hope none of you lives near the ocean, or near any area with a risk of wildfire, or...

it’s like finding it funny to watch other passengers they dislike panic as the ship they all share sinks...
Who could have guessed that a teenage girl could trigger so many old men.

It is indeed true we have reached the final stage of global warming denialism. "It's too late to do anything about it anyway".
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
“Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 11:48 PM   #289
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,076
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Who could have guessed that a teenage girl could trigger so many old men.

It is indeed true we have reached the final stage of global warming denialism. "It's too late to do anything about it anyway".
Or it could just be her methods were a bit crap, which people have been saying
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2019, 11:54 PM   #290
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 44,916
Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Busted!



( Thanks Ziggurat )

I'm not tied up in knots about anything, but I wonder about some people and their obsession with a 15 year old activist.
Have you seen the figures for Germany’s coal power generation? It’s plummeting. So quickly and easily in my view, with no major problems as renewables fill the gap.

Australia is heading in the same direction as well as many European countries. How is the US going?

And your use of the word “obsession” is hilarious. The exasperation towards Thunberg shown by you and others in this thread and relentless criticism about how she talks, how she looks and how she presents herself is a direct result of obsession.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:05 AM   #291
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,076
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Have you seen the figures for Germany’s coal power generation? It’s plummeting. So quickly and easily in my view, with no major problems as renewables fill the gap.

Australia is heading in the same direction as well as many European countries. How is the US going?

And your use of the word “obsession” is hilarious. The exasperation towards Thunberg shown by you and others in this thread and relentless criticism about how she talks, how she looks and how she presents herself is a direct result of obsession.
Thunberg isn't German
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:10 AM   #292
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 44,916
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Thunberg isn't German
What? Are you reading anything other than your own posts? People here are saying that government can’t do anything so Thunberg’s message is pointless (classic denialism by the way). I’m pointing out that Germany is indeed doing something. Indeed a lot.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:14 AM   #293
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,076
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What? Are you reading anything other than your own posts? People here are saying that government can’t do anything so Thunberg’s message is pointless (classic denialism by the way). I’m pointing out that Germany is indeed doing something. Indeed a lot.
Yes. And and it as little to do with anything she does

Lot'sof countries are doing things...Not enough obviously, but she is kind of irrelevant to it,
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:16 AM   #294
Ziggurat
Penultimate Amazing
 
Ziggurat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 45,391
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Have you seen the figures for Germany’s coal power generation? It’s plummeting. So quickly and easily in my view, with no major problems as renewables fill the gap.
Where are you seeing that? The figures I've seen don't show a decrease, but nothing I could categorize as "plummeting". For example:

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...wer-mix-charts

Hard coal useage has dropped a fair amount recently, but lignite (soft coal) has only dropped a little (see 4th graph). And I believe lignite pollutes more than hard coal.

They could have been dropping coal usage much faster if they hadn't shut down all those nuclear plants.
__________________
"As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law
Ziggurat is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:44 AM   #295
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 37,231
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That seems obvious.

Ground all commercial air travel. Essential flights and air freight only.

Cut back all industrial activities across the globe. Establish a central clearing house for emissions and offsets. You want to do something, you sell it to the clearing house. How necessary it is. How many offsets you've lined up.

Start seriously weaning humanity off of livestock protein.

Relax regulations on nuclear power plants. Claim Yucca Mountain and other likely sites under eminent domain, as nuclear waste storage sites.

We have about 8 years to drastically cut emissions across the board, and start to build a sustainable industrial base that the future.

As far as I know, Greta has done **** all to make this happen. Neither has anyone else. So why is Greta such a big deal?
Can you measure how your words change the world?

There are definitely sections of your post that are essential goals soon.

I'll post again a little thing.

1986 I heard about climate change.
1988 First able to do my recycling - of newspapers, in cardboard boxes - in Melbourne.
1989 First given kerbside recycling bins.
etc.

What country do you live in?

It sounds very much like the US. I've seen how angry they get being asked to recycle, or angry at not being able to recycle.



I'd like to mention the concept of Sustainability Transitions.

There are sustainability transition studies. Here's a 2012 review of 540 journal articles.

"new conceptual developments and serve as stepping-stones in the maturation of sustainability transition studies, by linking with the scholarly literatures of management studies, sociology, policy studies, economic geography, and modeling."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...4873331200056X

Every journal article is a transition in itself.

If Thunberg had released your plan as a speech, let alone a manifesto or 10 Year Plan, can you imagine how you would have ridiculed it?

We must still transition along the way.
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:46 AM   #296
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 37,231
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Interview with Greta Thunberg

– Apparently I am quite bad at giving speeches. Because what people bring up from the speech in New York is me sitting and saying: ”How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood” and that is not what I want to communicate. I want to communicate facts. And if you leave out what the rest of the speech is all about, if you only take out three sentences, then that makes me sound like an idiot.

I don’t give speeches so that I in some magical way will talk world leaders into realizing that I am right and they are wrong. My long term goal is that the gap between what science is saying and what is actually being done is made so clear that it can no longer be ignored.
Hahaha, that's awesome, I copied that exact section when I read that, then came in here to post it, and that's what you did.
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:51 AM   #297
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 37,231
Let's try and talk with each other.

Instead of talking at each other.

In here, we have more time to think about what we say.

Out of online, it's so hard to control our reactions.

I get how prestige doesn't see the point of conferences. I never made an effort to get to any Amazing Meetings partly because talking to people is pretty scary.

But if you don't move out of your comfort zone, you're surrounded by a fear zone.
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 01:26 AM   #298
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,076
..
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 9th December 2019 at 01:28 AM.
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 01:28 AM   #299
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 18,076
mis-read
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 9th December 2019 at 01:29 AM.
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 01:43 AM   #300
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 44,916
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
mis-read
Interesting that Greta can’t express herself well.....
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 03:27 AM   #301
wobs
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hull
Posts: 2,098
Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
... but I wonder about some people and their obsession with a 15 year old activist.
I have also wondered why the likes of Stout, cullennz, theprestige, and yourself have been obsessed with her for so long in this thread. I mean I get why some may find her irritating, but to take it this far is way beyond what one would normally would comment on any social media platform about something you might find irritating.
__________________
"To vowels. They stop consonants sticking together like boiled sweets in a paper bag."
wobs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 03:45 AM   #302
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 44,916
Originally Posted by wobs View Post
I have also wondered why the likes of Stout, cullennz, theprestige, and yourself have been obsessed with her for so long in this thread. I mean I get why some may find her irritating, but to take it this far is way beyond what one would normally would comment on any social media platform about something you might find irritating.
You and me both.

But apparently I'm a member of her fan club, so my opinion is unimportant.....
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 07:41 AM   #303
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,024
Originally Posted by wobs View Post
I have also wondered why the likes of Stout, cullennz, theprestige, and yourself have been obsessed with her for so long in this thread. I mean I get why some may find her irritating, but to take it this far is way beyond what one would normally would comment on any social media platform about something you might find irritating.
Is there some sort of guideline, a number of posts, a thread length, an amount of time that a thread goes on where an issue crosses over into an "obsession" ? If there is, then we got a hella lot of obsessives on this forum.

I don';t know about anybody else but I pretty much only do one thread at a time and if it goes on and on...then so do I, or at least until it gets boring.

This one is a perfect storm of science, partisan politics, religious type thinking and hero worship.

Everybody knows that there's no way, no how that governments are going to being emissions down by 7.6%/year over the next 8-11 years. Everybody knows that these reductions have to happen globally ( except India and China, don't mention those because that's right out of the climate change denier's playbook ) and everybody knows these reductions have to start happening today.

Yet very people are want to willingly participate in making those reductions happen....strange that.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 07:43 AM   #304
IsThisTheLife
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Interview with Greta Thunberg

– Apparently I am quite bad at giving speeches. Because what people bring up from the speech in New York is me sitting and saying: ”How dare you? You have stolen my dreams and my childhood” and that is not what I want to communicate. I want to communicate facts. And if you leave out what the rest of the speech is all about, if you only take out three sentences, then that makes me sound like an idiot.

I don’t give speeches so that I in some magical way will talk world leaders into realizing that I am right and they are wrong. My long term goal is that the gap between what science is saying and what is actually being done is made so clear that it can no longer be ignored.
FFS - GT parroting the word "science" over and over doesn't mean she has the first effing clue about actual science beyond what's taught to her in her secondary-school classes. The day it's confirmed that she's got an IQ more than 10 or 20 points above the median for Europids, IOW that she's a certified prodigy/genius, I might begin to take her seriously, but I'm pretty sure we'd have been hearing about it non-stop from day-one were it the case. So as far as I'm concerned, she and the dog/pony show surrounding her are exactly what they seem - a fraud
__________________
"There is no sin except stupidity."
IsThisTheLife is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 08:04 AM   #305
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,510
Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
FFS - GT parroting the word "science" over and over doesn't mean she has the first effing clue about actual science beyond what's taught to her in her secondary-school classes. The day it's confirmed that she's got an IQ more than 10 or 20 points above the median for Europids, IOW that she's a certified prodigy/genius, I might begin to take her seriously, but I'm pretty sure we'd have been hearing about it non-stop from day-one were it the case. So as far as I'm concerned, she and the dog/pony show surrounding her are exactly what they seem - a fraud
Well, aren't you just the cutest thing, getting your knickers in such a knot over a know-nothing teenager. Is it really worth all this anger? If you are sure that she and her supporters have nothing useful to say why would you keep listening to any of it? If you ignore her you will likely have a more relaxed and happier life. Hope this little bit of advise works.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 09:43 AM   #306
IsThisTheLife
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Well, aren't you just the cutest thing, getting your knickers in such a knot over a know-nothing teenager. Is it really worth all this anger? If you are sure that she and her supporters have nothing useful to say why would you keep listening to any of it? If you ignore her you will likely have a more relaxed and happier life. Hope this little bit of advise works.
I keep reading this attempt at a putdown, it seems to be all the fan boys and girls have got.

But it's not as if anyone has a choice about "listening" to the brat - the noise she and they are making is inescapable.
__________________
"There is no sin except stupidity."
IsThisTheLife is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 09:50 AM   #307
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,388
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I have no issue with any of these ideas as ways to quickly reduce carbon emissions. Implemented quickly they would, of course, destroy the world’s economy. This would inevitably result in millions of deaths so in the long run the earh’s collective population may be no better off than trying to live in a warmer world.

However, as much as I appreciate this sensible post from you, the question was asked of ThisIsTheLife. I would like to see their answer.
And I would like to see your answer. What's the actual plan, from the scientists, that meets the hard cap on emissions targets, in the necessary time frame, without destroying the world's economy?

Have you given up on locking in a <1.5 degree increase over the next 100 years? Or is there still something we can do about it? If so, what?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 09:54 AM   #308
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,388
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Let's try and talk with each other.

Instead of talking at each other.
Every time I try to talk to you, you ignore me and then lie about my position. I've lost track of the number of times I've corrected you about the nature of my objection to Thunberg's activism, but you keep repeating the same lies about it.

Quote:
<stream of consciousness snipped>

I get how prestige doesn't see the point of conferences. I never made an effort to get to any Amazing Meetings partly because talking to people is pretty scary.
More misrepresentation. I never said I don't see the point of conferences.

I have said that I don't see the point of people flying around the world to meet personally with Greta and help her sail to this particular conference. Nor do I see much point to her being at COP25 at all.

If you see a point, I wish you would stop misrepresenting my position and explain what point you see.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 10:40 AM   #309
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,510
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And I would like to see your answer. What's the actual plan, from the scientists, that meets the hard cap on emissions targets, in the necessary time frame, without destroying the world's economy?

Have you given up on locking in a <1.5 degree increase over the next 100 years? Or is there still something we can do about it? If so, what?
OK. You would like me to answer Lionking's question even though it was not directed to me.

Simply, I have no answer. My thoughts will have zero effect on the actions that may be taken.

Now, in response to your questions:

1. There is no actual plan that will work in the available time frame. The types of drastic measures you provide will not be implemented in the short term. Either way there will be a lot of misery spread around.

2. Yes, I have given up on locking in the increase. The things required to accomplish this will not be implemented quickly enough.

3. There is nothing significant I can see that will be done in the necessary time frame.

All that doom and gloom said, I still think the goals are worth working toward and I will offer no criticism of anybody trying to work toward those goals, even if an individual's actions prove to have little effect.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 10:43 AM   #310
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,510
Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
I keep reading this attempt at a putdown, it seems to be all the fan boys and girls have got.

But it's not as if anyone has a choice about "listening" to the brat - the noise she and they are making is inescapable.
Hey man, I'm trying to lower my communications here to a level the boo boys can comprehend, You know, "taking the piss" as so many here have said they are doing.

If you cannot escape the noise Ms Thunberg and her supporters are making I see that as a good thing.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 10:44 AM   #311
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,388
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
OK. You would like me to answer Lionking's question even though it was not directed to me.

Simply, I have no answer. My thoughts will have zero effect on the actions that may be taken.

Now, in response to your questions:

1. There is no actual plan that will work in the available time frame. The types of drastic measures you provide will not be implemented in the short term. Either way there will be a lot of misery spread around.

2. Yes, I have given up on locking in the increase. The things required to accomplish this will not be implemented quickly enough.

3. There is nothing significant I can see that will be done in the necessary time frame.

All that doom and gloom said, I still think the goals are worth working toward and I will offer no criticism of anybody trying to work toward those goals, even if an individual's actions prove to have little effect.
Thank you. This all seems reasonable (though depressing) to me. I think we can probably find a lot to argue about, but broadly speaking we seem to be in agreement on the main points.

So, in the context of this reasonable doom and gloom, do you think it's reasonable to celebrate Thunberg's effect on the problem?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 11:21 AM   #312
IsThisTheLife
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 461
"The Youth Climate Movement". Yes, really.
__________________
"There is no sin except stupidity."
IsThisTheLife is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 11:34 AM   #313
IsThisTheLife
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 461
Quote:
Using a child (with or without autism) as a literal shield to hide a political agenda behind (and act morally outraged + indignant when someone criticizes or mocks her, whether Trump or someone else) is so scummy, low & pathetic it shouldn't even exist as a political tool. But here we are, where a literal puppet show occurred in the UN with a ranting child got all the mass media to release their usual arsenal of insults & character assassination against people/groups who resist the obvious propaganda.
Rather well put. Ask nicely and I'll post a link to the nazi/white supremacist (OK, maybe just not "progressive") forum I found it on.
__________________
"There is no sin except stupidity."
IsThisTheLife is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 11:36 AM   #314
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
 
lomiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,266
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And I would like to see your answer. What's the actual plan, from the scientists,
Set a suitable price on Carbon emissions and let market forces deal with it. Free markets are actually really good at this type of thing. If we wanted to minimize the economic pain we should have started 25 years ago, but what’s done is done. The pain economic pain gets worse the longer we wait so we may as well get started.
__________________
"Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"
lomiller is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 11:47 AM   #315
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,388
Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Set a suitable price on Carbon emissions and let market forces deal with it. Free markets are actually really good at this type of thing. If we wanted to minimize the economic pain we should have started 25 years ago, but what’s done is done. The pain economic pain gets worse the longer we wait so we may as well get started.
Makes sense to me. Minor quibbles: Setting a suitable price normally happens through market forces. If you're going to set a price outside of what the market would set on its own, how do you figure out what a suitable price is?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:10 PM   #316
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 7,213
Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
But it's not as if anyone has a choice about "listening" to the brat - the noise she and they are making is inescapable.
And yet she's making no more noise than she was six months ago, and at least one person on this very thread has said they'd never heard of her until this thread appeared.

It seems it is escapable after all - all you have to do is, er, not look at this thread.
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:16 PM   #317
ThatGuy11200
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
FFS - GT parroting the word "science" over and over doesn't mean she has the first effing clue about actual science beyond what's taught to her in her secondary-school classes. The day it's confirmed that she's got an IQ more than 10 or 20 points above the median for Europids, IOW that she's a certified prodigy/genius, I might begin to take her seriously, but I'm pretty sure we'd have been hearing about it non-stop from day-one were it the case. So as far as I'm concerned, she and the dog/pony show surrounding her are exactly what they seem - a fraud
Most science really isn't that difficult to comprehend. All you need is an interest in it and a good source of information and you can learn as much as you like.
ThatGuy11200 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:21 PM   #318
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,510
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Thank you. This all seems reasonable (though depressing) to me. I think we can probably find a lot to argue about, but broadly speaking we seem to be in agreement on the main points.

So, in the context of this reasonable doom and gloom, do you think it's reasonable to celebrate Thunberg's effect on the problem?
Celebrate is not the word I would use and I do not think it correctly describes her supporters, either here or in real life.

I do think her efforts, and the efforts of anyone else who gets that involved, should be encouraged. I certainly see nothing to be gained by disparaging her or her supporters.

As I said in the post you quoted:

Originally Posted by Steve View Post

All that doom and gloom said, I still think the goals are worth working toward and I will offer no criticism of anybody trying to work toward those goals, even if an individual's actions prove to have little effect.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:46 PM   #319
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
 
Doghouse Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,053
Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I dropped back in to this thread to discover that the current argument is:

“Ha! Ha! Nothing got done about climate change because of Al Gore! Nothing will get done about climate change because of Greta Thunberg! Ha, ha, ha - she and her followers are just idiots to think otherwise! It is all useless! Snort, laugh...”

Well, I hope you guys think about what the implications of this argument are and if anyone who really believes it should find much amusement in it. I’m not sure celebrating someone’s alleged ineffectiveness in this area is a great idea. I also hope none of you lives near the ocean, or near any area with a risk of wildfire, or...

it’s like finding it funny to watch other passengers they dislike panic as the ship they all share sinks...
I live near the ocean, haven't noticed any difference in sea level since I was a child. When will I start to notice? When will it begin to cause problems? I was told decades ago that I would have already noticed. This is a serious question, by the way. I'm not trying to make a snarky point.

Last edited by Doghouse Reilly; 9th December 2019 at 12:51 PM.
Doghouse Reilly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th December 2019, 12:51 PM   #320
Doghouse Reilly
Adrift on an uncharted sea
 
Doghouse Reilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,053
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
When was the last time you saw a Hummer ? Those things went from hero to zero real fast.
Actually I still see them fairly regularly in Los Angeles.
Doghouse Reilly is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:45 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.