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Tags loose change , part 1 , 911 conspiracy theory

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Old 2nd May 2006, 12:28 PM   #2401
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by manny
I think that's why Rox never came back -- he knew people were remembering the list of questions he declined to answer and he couldn't get away with letting the thread progress to the next page.
My favorite martian was Alek, who, in post #256 stated:
Originally Posted by Alek
...I am one of the most rational and sane people I know, and my friends and family would vouch for that...
...and then proceeded toward incoherence at top speed (which says what about his "friends and family"?).
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Old 2nd May 2006, 12:31 PM   #2402
delphi_ote
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Originally Posted by brodski View Post
Maybe we could start a 9/11 CT band? You could be on blunt instruments whilst geggy plays the buffoon. The loosers could chime in, in chorus, singing the same old tune and Gravy, Delphi_ote & Chipmunk_stew could sing in a perfect counterpoint to the loosers, making groundbaking use of reason and facts.
Our first conver song should be Linkin Park's "The Truth." It sounds a lot like the Loosers. It's repetitive, bland, incomprehensible, melodramatic, never stops repeating the word "truth", and rambles a lot of incoherent paranoid crap.
Quote:
You can't sleep, you're restless
and slightly obsessed with falling too deep
and malfunction, you're a virus
whose intention is *********** up something (this is the best line of poetry ever written in the English Language)
You're a crater
on the face of a problem much greater
It's the violence, or lack thereof control
Body and soul, digging a hole
Is the blood stainless?
Enjoy the pain with accepting your grief
Are you finished?
Dumb *********** question, don't let yourself fall asleep
Ressurect the intention
Once your vision is now mass-produced,
Imagine the insults a blessing
imagine accepting the truth

Imagine accepting the truth[x1,672]

The pendulum swinging
Hypnosis has taken control, now you linger
on a shadow of a doubt
Have you really figured what you're all about?
Don't trust your instincts
Just open the chamber where you keep those darkest regrets
All the things you've done wrong
Rebellious at heart all along
Is your leader a voice?
I'll stop there. It hurts my brain.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 12:36 PM   #2403
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Well I just got back from New Orleans last night ( had to make sure the bombs were successfully installed in the levee repairs awaiting the next hurricane we have scheduled ) and I see this thread is still kicking.

Seems like the same old same old - looser unable to answer a simpole direct question while moving goalposts and ignoring evidence that his "facts" are actually lies, while making up new "facts" at an astounding rate.

Geggy, can you answer the questions people have put to you please? Or are you a liar and a deciever?
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Old 2nd May 2006, 12:40 PM   #2404
kookbreaker
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Originally Posted by delphi_ote View Post
Our first conver song should be Linkin Park's "The Truth." It sounds a lot like the Loosers. It's repetitive, bland, incomprehensible, melodramatic, never stops repeating the word "truth", and rambles a lot of incoherent paranoid crap.

I'll stop there. It hurts my brain.
Follow it up with the Dead Milkmen's 'Stuart'

Quote:

You know what Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people here
in the trailer park. Oh no, don't get me wrong, they're fine people, good
Americans. But they're content to sit back, maybe watch a little Mork and
Mindy on channel 57. Maybe kick back a cool Coors 16-ouncer. They're
good fine people, Stuart. But they don't know what the queers are doing
to the soil.

You know that Johnny Werzner kid - the kid who delivers papers in the
neighborhood? He's a fine kid. Some of the neighbors say he smokes
crack, but I don't believe it. Anyway, for his 10th birthday, all he
wanted was a burrow owl, just like his old man. "Dad, get me a burrow
owl. I'll never ask for anything else as long as I live". So the guy
breaks down and buys him a burrow owl. Anyway at 10:30 the other night I
go out into my yard and there's the Werzner kid looking up in the tree. I
said, "What are you looking for?" He said, "I'm looking for my burrow
owl." I say, "Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick! Everybody knows that a
burrow owl lives in a hole in the ground! Why the hell do you think they
call it a burrow owl, anyway?!" Now Stuart, do you think a kid like that
is gonna know what the queers are doing to the soil?

I first became aware of this, about 10 years ago, the summer my oldest boy
Bill Jr. died. You know that carnival that comes to town every year?
Well this year it came with a ride called the Mixer. The man said "Keep
your head and arms inside the mixer at all times." But Bill Jr., he was a
daredevil, just like his old man. He was leaning out saying, "Hey
everybody! Look at me, look at me!" POW! He was decapitated. They found
his head over by the snowcone concession. A few days after that, I open
up the mail and there's a pamphlet in there, from Pueblo, Colorado. And
it's addressed to Bill Jr. And it's entitled, "Do you know what the
queers are doing to our soil?"

Now Stuart, if you look at the soil around any large U.S. city with a big
underground homosexual population - Des Moines, Iowa, perfect example.
Look at the soil around Des Moines, Stuart. You can't build on it, you
can't grow anything in it. The government says it's due to poor farming.
But I know what's really going on, Stuart. I know it's the queers.
They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay
Martians. I swear to God.

You know what Stuart, I like you. You're not like the other people, here
in the trailer park.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 12:45 PM   #2405
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I mean, if you are going to think about conspiracies, the larger they are, the less likely. If you ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE a conpsiracy, (and there is no real reason that you should) you get a kind of dichotomy. Either the Loose Change videos and related CT material are fabricated, or the much grander network of evidence supporting that the buildings fell because they were struck by planes is false. The second involves greater skill at photomanipulation, the cooperation of every major news company, the cooperation of the entire U.S. government (who, last I knew, could never agree on anything), and vast, innumerable resources. Geggy called it a pyramid, suggesting that there is even hierarchy involved, with one individual at the top. And this has been going on for years, decades, etc... Whereas a Loose Change conspiracy requires far fewer resources and cooperation to create a video expressing a misinformed interpretation of one event, put it on the internet, and generate support. You don't have to fake any media companies because the net has no quality control! You can lie to millions and you don't have to go through a publisher or broadcaster, or anyone else who might object. You don't even need skill at photoshop because most of the theory is conjecture, the inability to find existing evidence, testimony, and ambiguous photos. Don't even bother to photoshop them, just leave them cropped (or don't) and let the CT interpretation sink in! You don't have to fake evidence so it looks like you PROVED something, all you have to do is convince people. All you need is a couple of guys, some video editing software, a computer, and an internet connection.

The larger the conspiracy, the more cooperation required, the more resources and skill that go into it, the more likely it is to fail. You have to do a lot just to make it happen, and all these things have to run smoothly all the time. If you have a small conspiracy, you only need to do a few things that succeed and you are done. You do less, so there is less possibility for error, and the overall process is much shorter and easier.

And look: Terrorists freakin' love the internet. They can spread their cause to the masses with the push of a button, e-mail anyone pdf files on how to make bombs and where to coordinate the next strike, set up websites to take donations. Al Qaeda spreads their beheading propaganda videos all over the place. It's the fastest, cheapest way to reach and influence a global audience, and these people know how it's done. The terrorists fill the niche of the conspirators in the lesser example quite nicely.

Now, that doesn't mean that Al Qaeda has to be solely responsible, it may be another terrorist organization, but they have a motive to attack and undermine the U.S. government. Whereas for the greater conspiracy's motives are "to keep themselves in power," which isn't much of a motive since you can accomplish much without need of a conspiracy. If they're already using the world's resources to do it and taking their sweet time with it, they have very little left of the world to gain from a comparitively enormous expendeture. In fact the damn thing is so nebulous you can't pin down a logical motive. Compare this to the Al Qaeda terrorists, who have actual political concerns, a hell of a lot to gain from undermining the U.S., and see themselves as heavily oppressed by an overwhelming Western dictatorship- the exact viewpoint of the Loose Change Videos and related CT's! (In all seriousness, I see this a coincidence, a side effect of radicalist philosophy, and those CT's are nothing more than a few paranoids and their basement-dwelling beardo followers, but hey, CT's are fun!)

And I ask you, which is more likely and possible: Simple things with complicated effects, or complicated things with complicated effects to create increasingly complex illusions of simple things with complicated effects?

You decide. Postulate plurality at your own risk!
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Old 2nd May 2006, 01:53 PM   #2406
geggy
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Can anyone debunk this article?

http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...t_down_wt.html
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Old 2nd May 2006, 01:54 PM   #2407
Manny
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You first, gaggy. There's a list of questions for you. Answer them.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:06 PM   #2408
Pangea
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This is only my second post, but I've been keeping up with this thread as much as possible.
What I find really laughable about the CTs is the fact that they want all of you to prove their claims didn't happen rather than proving that what they claim did happen.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:08 PM   #2409
Mercutio
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Ben Folds
"Bastard"
Quote:
Close your eyes close your ears young man
You've seen and heard all an old man can
Spread the facts on the floor like a fan
throw away the ones that make you feel bad

...

So why you gotta act like you know when you don't know?
It's okay if you don't know everything
Why you gotta act like you know when you don't know?
It's okay if you don't know everything
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:16 PM   #2410
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
I'd give you an answer if you give me the video. I'm very interested in seeing it. PM it to me or whatever, it doesn't have to be a full hour. Just 5 minutes for a quick download. Then I could send it to 911myths.com for them to post it on their website. Also I asked you to provide me a link as to what started the fire inside the wtc7 then I will answer you your question so nyah nyah nyah.

heh.

Sure argue with me on my weakest point of sept 11. Post the question again. I may have missed it. I'll try my best to answer it.
May have missed it? This is the fifth time I've requested your response. The first was on this post.

Since you brought it up, what would say is your strongest argument that supports your hypothesis that the U.S. government is behind the attacks of 9/11?

You were an imaging major or something at RIT, but you can't pull up a common video on the internet? Methinks my little fixéd star of foolishness doth protest too much in order to avoideth the issue!. You accused me of altering my image, but are you now saying that your stills weren't screenshots that you made from video? Then how do you know WHERE they came from and that THEY weren't photoshopped?

sdited to fix grammar
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:16 PM   #2411
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Originally Posted by Pangea View Post
This is only my second post, but I've been keeping up with this thread as much as possible.
What I find really laughable about the CTs is the fact that they want all of you to prove their claims didn't happen rather than proving that what they claim did happen.
Welcome

The other thing you'll notice is none of their info comes from knowledgeable primary sources (unless they are misquoted, have quotes taken out of context, or bystanders saying stuff like, it sounded like an explosion). All their "evidence" is via video or still pictures.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:25 PM   #2412
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Yes, anyone can debunk that article using only information supplied in this very thread. Unless, amongst all that tripe, there was actually some previously undisclosed evidence. Perhaps to speed things along, you could identify the new juicy stuff...
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:30 PM   #2413
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
It's a Christopher Bollyn article! From AFP! About Steven Jones! From geggy! That's FOUR of my all-time favorite things in one link!

geggy, please, please don't ever leave usl I will PAY you to stay here. You are more precious to me than a dumptruck full of gold beneath the World Trade Center. Have I told you lately that I love you?
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:37 PM   #2414
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Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
Well I just got back from New Orleans last night ( had to make sure the bombs were successfully installed in the levee repairs awaiting the next hurricane we have scheduled ) and I see this thread is still kicking.

Seems like the same old same old - looser unable to answer a simpole direct question while moving goalposts and ignoring evidence that his "facts" are actually lies, while making up new "facts" at an astounding rate.

Geggy, can you answer the questions people have put to you please? Or are you a liar and a deciever?
Welcome back, WildCat. Were you there for Jazzfest?
You see that we have a new star here. He's really basking in the limelight. He may seem lunkheaded, but compared to some folks out there he's downright reasonable. I had an encounter today with a guy who claims that my "Loose Change" critique didn't debunk a single point in that video.

Anyway, we saved a plate for you, so dig in before the vittles is cold.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:47 PM   #2415
Arkan_Wolfshade
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Since geggery has left the land of rational posting, I'll throw something out that I haven't seen addressed as of yet:
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...iveframes.html

Thoughts?
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:56 PM   #2416
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Since geggery has left the land of rational posting, I'll throw something out that I haven't seen addressed as of yet:
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...iveframes.html

Thoughts?
Only that if you take only five frames of the second tower hit you'll get the same effect. With a faster camera we would have seen a plane hit the pentagon.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:58 PM   #2417
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Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
The other thing you'll notice is none of their info comes from knowledgeable primary sources (unless they are misquoted, have quotes taken out of context, or bystanders saying stuff like, it sounded like an explosion). All their "evidence" is via video or still pictures.
No primary sources links because according to geg they're not trustworthy, the Media is in on it!
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Old 2nd May 2006, 02:59 PM   #2418
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Still here geggy? Man you're a persistant SOB. Why don't you forget all this CT nonsense and take care of your daughter!
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Old 2nd May 2006, 03:00 PM   #2419
hellaeon
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Originally Posted by delphi_ote View Post
Why are you talking like Yoda all the sudden, hellaeon?
May be related to long game sessions of Star Wars Galaxies online....
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Old 2nd May 2006, 03:02 PM   #2420
Arkan_Wolfshade
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Only that if you take only five frames of the second tower hit you'll get the same effect. With a faster camera we would have seen a plane hit the pentagon.
Do we have a way of determining the film speed of the security camera?
Can we determine from the visual data the altitude of the aircraft on each frame?
Can anyone hook me up with these same frames on a sight that has not altered them? (the captioning I assume was applied by the hosting site)
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Old 2nd May 2006, 03:21 PM   #2421
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I'm not sure how credible this source is yet, but it's interesting.

http://www.montalk.net/pentagon.html
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Old 2nd May 2006, 03:21 PM   #2422
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Originally Posted by Arkan_Wolfshade View Post
Since geggery has left the land of rational posting, I'll throw something out that I haven't seen addressed as of yet:
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...iveframes.html

Thoughts?
Yep, the CTers love that because it doesn't show the plane hitting. They ignore the 100+ eyewitnesses who saw a 757 hit. Supposedly at the Moussaoui trial other videos were played that do show the whole thing. Maybe they'll be released some day.

I'd like to ask the CTers if they believe that the Revolutionary War happened. There are no videos or photos from 1776-1782, so where's the proof?
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Old 2nd May 2006, 03:26 PM   #2423
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
I'm not sure how credible this source is yet, but it's interesting.

http://www.montalk.net/pentagon.html
I love that site: "Dissecting misinformation...with more misinformation."

What about all the bodies that were identified? The personal effects? And what happened to flight 77 if it didn't hit the Penatgon?
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Old 2nd May 2006, 03:51 PM   #2424
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Have I told you lately that I love you?
Who are you, Rod Stewart?
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Old 2nd May 2006, 04:21 PM   #2425
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Would someone care to give me a synopsis of this thread from about the middle of it onward? I was following it but I have been too busy to keep up.

Or is it the same old:
Conspiracy Theorist suggests evidence
Sceptics show evidence wrong or otherwise insufficient
Conspiracy Theorist suggests additional evidence more bizarre than the first
Which is also shown to be wrong.

That whole trite thing?

-=-=-=-

At any rate, it's nice to know that Delphi_Ote dislikes Linkin Park as much as I do. Perhaps we should start a thread on crappy music and why people like it. It's almost paranormal, that.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 04:26 PM   #2426
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Originally Posted by c4ts View Post
It is clearly a controlled demolition in the forest!
And it must be on the moon - all that black smoke, gotta be a shortage of oxygen!
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Old 2nd May 2006, 04:31 PM   #2427
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
Let's bet this is what geggy is going to answer you with:

from Americanfreepress

"A “sharp spike of short duration” is how seismologist Thorne Lay of University of California at Santa Cruz told AFP an underground nuclear explosion appears on a seismograph."
I wonder how long it will take before the Loosers start saying that it was a Zionist mini-nuke that took out the WTC and created the pools of molten metal - here's a fun little link to when Loosers and Holocaust deniers mate:

http://www.vialls.com/nuke/bali_nuke.htm

Because, we all know, bloodthirsty Muslim terrorists would never do anything like blow up innocent people.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 04:40 PM   #2428
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Originally Posted by Ersby View Post
Hey, I just noticed I joined this forum on the 12th September 2001. Weird. I have no memory of it at all (perhaps understandably).
conspiracy.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 04:42 PM   #2429
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Originally Posted by brodski View Post
Maybe we could start a 9/11 CT band? You could be on blunt instruments whilst geggy plays the buffoon. The loosers could chime in, in chorus, singing the same old tune and Gravy, Delphi_ote & Chipmunk_stew could sing in a perfect counterpoint to the loosers, making groundbaking use of reason and facts.
im a drummer but for these guys i'll play the spoons.

* yes I am catching up with all the posts *
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Old 2nd May 2006, 04:59 PM   #2430
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I wonder how long it will take before the Loosers start saying that it was a Zionist mini-nuke that took out the WTC and created the pools of molten metal - here's a fun little link to when Loosers and Holocaust deniers mate:
Geggy already did back on post #2295
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Old 2nd May 2006, 05:01 PM   #2431
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BTW I like the planting evidence in Loose Change 3 challenge. At the very least they might get paranoid enough to start double checking their information.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 05:07 PM   #2432
Gravy
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Originally Posted by emperorchaos View Post
Would someone care to give me a synopsis of this thread from about the middle of it onward? I was following it but I have been too busy to keep up.

Or is it the same old:
Conspiracy Theorist suggests evidence
Sceptics show evidence wrong or otherwise insufficient
Conspiracy Theorist suggests additional evidence more bizarre than the first
Which is also shown to be wrong.

That whole trite thing?
That about says it, but I daresay WE'VE learned a lot from our research.

I do suggest that as an experiment, the next time geggy posts we all agree with him. No dissent. I wonder if he would be okay.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 05:27 PM   #2433
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
I'd give you an answer if you give me the video. I'm very interested in seeing it. PM it to me or whatever, it doesn't have to be a full hour. Just 5 minutes for a quick download. Then I could send it to 911myths.com for them to post it on their website. Also I asked you to provide me a link as to what started the fire inside the wtc7 then I will answer you your question so nyah nyah nyah.

heh.

Sure argue with me on my weakest point of sept 11. Post the question again. I may have missed it. I'll try my best to answer it.



EXACTLY I'm a little inclined to think that Karl Rove, the white house's spinmaster, may have written the script for the Osama video to paint Michael Moore and the democrats as terrorists. Correct me wrong but didn't F911 documentry come out the previous summer or the year before? That Karl Rove is one clever diabolical dude, even I have to be impressed with his insipidness.
I'm dizzy.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 05:27 PM   #2434
aggle-rithm
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
Whad'ya bet this Jones character has tenure?
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Old 2nd May 2006, 05:28 PM   #2435
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Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
I'm dizzy.
Your reaction is normal. Go with it.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 05:37 PM   #2436
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
May have missed it? This is the fifth time I've requested your response. The first was on this post.

Since you brought it up, what would say is your strongest argument that supports your hypothesis that the U.S. government is behind the attacks of 9/11?

You were an imaging major or something at RIT, but you can't pull up a common video on the internet? Methinks my little fixéd star of foolishness doth protest too much in order to avoideth the issue!. You accused me of altering my image, but are you now saying that your stills weren't screenshots that you made from video? Then how do you know WHERE they came from and that THEY weren't photoshopped?

sdited to fix grammar
Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
May have missed it? This is the fifth time I've requested your response. The first was on this post.

Since you brought it up, what would say is your strongest argument that supports your hypothesis that the U.S. government is behind the attacks of 9/11?

You were an imaging major or something at RIT, but you can't pull up a common video on the internet? Methinks my little fixéd star of foolishness doth protest too much in order to avoideth the issue!. You accused me of altering my image, but are you now saying that your stills weren't screenshots that you made from video? Then how do you know WHERE they came from and that THEY weren't photoshopped?

sdited to fix grammar
Hey there it is...I'll try my best to answer...please believe, I wasn't ignoring your question. Just that I'm being bombarded with different questions that Im having hard times catching up.

The 1975 fire,on the 11th floor fire was burning intensely at 700 degrees census for three hour. The fire then subsequntly spread from 9th floor to the 19th floor (yes it did as the repport indicated it), although it was small, the firemen were able to control and subside it. Yet the trusses and the core did not fail despite the weight load of the upper 90 floors that it held up . On sept 11, the fire was not as intense as it was in 1975, could not have reached anywhere near the melting temp point of the steel. Because the plane was flying at a high speed as it flew through the building as if it was a pin, and the flames shot out of the building hence only causing local damages in the area of the impact. The damages made to the concrete slabs that were embedded in the trusses had to be at least minimal. The fire could have not affected the trusses whatsoever, because the fire was nowhere burning intensely. Fuel only evaporizes in in a short period of time. You saw that most of fuel bursted into flames during the impact, thus very little puddle of fuel on the floor in the area of the impactwere burning off. The burning of office supplies couldn't have been hot enough for the core columns to fail.

And as for the still frames of the fake osama video came from this site, in which that piece o' crap site 911myths linked in their site...look into it and tell me if you think they were manipulated in any way....

http://www.september11news.com/OsamaEvidence.htm

My strongest point would be the fact that sept 11 was staged as PSYOP (which I've already covered), the history of bush crime familia and the excess /obstructing of investigation/cover up which I've not gotten to yet. be prepared

Now you owe me a link as to what started the fire in wtc7 AND a short video clip of your osama tape. I'll crap in my pants if you do.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 06:03 PM   #2437
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
Yep, the CTers love that because it doesn't show the plane hitting.
Look on the right side of the first picture, just above that little brown box. Look back and forth between the first and second pictures. You CAN see the tail of the plane in the first image.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 06:09 PM   #2438
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A picture of flaming wreckage falling off the WTC was posted earlier. I know you didn't miss it, because you misidentified it as "molten steel."
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Old 2nd May 2006, 06:36 PM   #2439
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Originally Posted by geggy View Post
My strongest point would be the fact that sept 11 was staged as PSYOP (which I've already covered), the history of bush crime familia and the excess /obstructing of investigation/cover up which I've not gotten to yet. be prepared
Oh, we're on the edges of our seats, big guy.
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Old 2nd May 2006, 07:10 PM   #2440
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Originally Posted by Pardalis View Post
I'm not sure how credible this source is yet, but it's interesting.

http://www.montalk.net/pentagon.html
Funny how two conspiracy theories battle eatchother. One is saying nothing hit the pentagon, the other says that it's somthing that looked like a plane but wasn't. They can't make up their mind between themselves.
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