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18th June 2009, 05:47 AM | #81 |
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I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office" The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling |
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18th June 2009, 07:59 AM | #82 |
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Keyboard mishap in my second-to-last post - 'But if you want to [dis]prove that 9/11 truth has, at it's heart, deep antisemitism'
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18th June 2009, 07:59 AM | #83 |
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LOL, what a whopper of a response. I never said von brunn did not make those posts nor did I say he did not sign the petition. As I have said before and elsewhere JREF'ers will purposely misquote/misread/misinterpret what a "truther" says.
I came into this thread because of the smear attempt with the smear-by-association disinfo tactic that was/is being used. Really? So you can quote where I vociferously denied it was him? Remember you said vociferously Yes, and if that is the quote where you say I vociferously denied it was him then you fall flat on your face. That was an obvious attempt at trying to get proof that it was him. No where did I say it was not. Why would I aks for you to prove it was him? Simple, because he is being used to smear "truthers" and me along with it, yet what you use to smear us wouldn't stand up in a court of law!!! There is no hard evidence, only innuendo. Again WOW, you make the claim that it IS him simply because his name appears there and I stated that it could have been someone else. Again never did I claim it was not him, as a matter of fact I have stated that it could very well be him. So why the need from you to lie about what I said? I said what I said because you have no proof it actually was him. But for a JREF "debunker" this is good enough to smear "truthers" So you have proof that it was him? I thought not LOL you have to keep pounding that claim that I said it wasn't him right? Work that straw man hard. And yes if it was him it means nothing about the truth movement. The smear by association is a known fallacy, it does not work, heck have you ever played 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, everyone has an association with just about everyone else to some extent, if I knew who you really were in real life I could likely trace an association from you to von brunn. Would that make you a racist anti-semite? Are you being purposely obtuse here? We have only that articles word on the emails from Mr. Fox. You would not accept that type of evidence from a "truther" about the events of 9/11 so why should I accept that from you? You would insist that I acquire the original emails from Mr. Fox and prove that the emails are valid then prove that they were sent by von brunn. Why is your standard of proof less for yourself than for "truthers"? Exept that your claim of my denial is based on a falsehood. 1) purposely misinterpretated what I said to set up your straw man. I was pointing out that it could have been anyone and you would need to supply the same level of proof you constantly demand of "truthers" with regards to 9/11 2) the only thing to back Mr. von brunn's emails from that article you quoted is the article itself, and the article does not link to any proof of any kind. It is just a claim without backing 3) Deception because I expected you to provide proof and not just make unsubstantiated claims? I have been trying to get JREF'ers to prove their claims that just because von brunn may have been a neo nazi and an anti semite how would that make "truthers' the same? I have been asking this since the start. I would certainly hope you do have evidence, since I linked it to you myself to show you how very easy it is to post at prison planet under any name you want. Part of the smear-by-association with von brunn was a post that was made under his name. As for the petition, again you are deliberately misinterprating what I said for your straw man. No where did I say it was not him, I said what I said to try and get JREF'ers to supply the same amount of evidence they demand from "truthers"...amazing how doing that one little thing makes most JREF'ers go bat****. So now you are attempting to "turn the tables" and demand I prove what I never said? ROFL, I have been trying to get you JREF'ers to provide proof of your claims to show how very very silly this whole smear-by-association is and how far JREF "debunkers" will go to use it. Obviously you meant to say "does not have" and not has, but I have nothing that needs proving. You are the one claiming that 9/11 truth has deep anti semetism but the only thing you have to back your claim is the attempted smear-by-association. Are all the jewish "truthers" anti-semetic as well? "Self hating jews" as they are labeled? What evidence do you have that 9/11 truth is at it's heart anti-semetic? |
18th June 2009, 08:12 AM | #84 |
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It's not about blaming jews, but this is another smear attempt. It's called ...
32 A quick way of getting rid of an opponent’s assertion, or of throwing suspicion on it, is by putting it into some odious category. So label them all anti-semites, doesn't matter that it is not true because just attaching that label to them will scare away many people and that is the goal. The problem with the anti-semite label is that it does not work like it used to. Too many people are aware of the truth. Besides which, if there were any substance to your claim you would AT THE SAME TIME be saying I am anti-american for accusing portions of the US government of involvement. Why are you not doing that? Oh that's right it's the "anti-semetic" label that has that negative connotation. israel has to be perfect in the eyes of everyone, israel can never do any wrong and if anyone says the israeli government, israeli intelligence or israeli military could have had any involvement then we MUST be anti-semetic and hate ALL jews. Your logic fails on many counts with that one. Then there is the... http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/spyring.html "Fox News, alone of all the media, actually ran the story as a four part broadcast, and put the story up on its web site. Then, without explanation, Fox News erased the story from their web site and have never mentioned it again. CNN followed by "Orwellizing" their report of the two hour advance warning of the WTC attacks sent to Odigo employees. But far more telling is the admission made by a US Official in part one of the Fox News report that hard evidence existed linking the events of 9/11 not to Arab Muslims, but to some of the more than 200 Israeli spies arrested both before and after 9/11, but that this evidence had been CLASSIFIED." "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information" So am I being anti-semetic in linking to that and quoting it? Would you call me anti-american for pointing out corruption in the US government or US military? Then why should anyone be called anti-semetic for pointing out this? |
18th June 2009, 08:26 AM | #85 |
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18th June 2009, 08:32 AM | #86 |
... and your little dog too.
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Steve: Do you believe the museum shooting was a false flag operation?
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18th June 2009, 09:13 AM | #87 |
Illuminator
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I've followed up on Willam B. Fox, who writes, under his own name, extensively, about his access to email correspondence of Von Brunn. Here is one example, in Mr. Fox' words:
James von Brunn vs. Capt. Eric H. May on Race and Jews ~ By: Maj. William B. Fox http://www.ronpaulwarroom.com/?p=20379 I'll post more on the significance of Mr. Fox' relationship with Capt. Eric H. May later. The article in question yesterday specifically sources Mr. Fox, and it is very easy to verify the story by other means - this is a standard way to corroborate any information. Here are some links between Mr. Fox and 9/11 truthers, such as James Fetzer, which I discovered today. BTW, William B. Fox believes that 9/11 was a 'false flag' operation, an 'inside job'. You will soon learn this as you read his articles and comments. http://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPages/ToolBarTopics/Articles/Featured_Authors/may,_captain_eric/May_works/May_2009/Capt._Eric_H._May_20090213_Chicago_False_Flag.html This one discusses false flag operations in the form of weather control, HAARPicanes, Nikola Tesla, Chemtrails etc...all of which are popular themes with James Fetzer, Morgan Reynolds and Dr. Judy Wood, prominent 9/11 'truth' leaders. One can see the cross-pollination of conspiracy theories going on here, as well as the intimate connections between May, Fox and Brunn. I had no idea until today as to the extent of these connections. http://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPag...and_Arson.html Back to Von Brunn, Here is an excerpt from one of Mr. Von Brunn's recent rants: 'Holy Western Empire presents A new, hard-hitting exposé of the JEW CONSPIRACY to destroy the White gene-pool by James W. von Brunn Here are 350pp of FACTS condensing libraries of information about the Talmud, Democracy, Marx, Genetics, Money, Aryans, Negroes, Khazars, The Holy Bible, Treason, Mass-media, Mendelism, Race, the “Holocaust” and a host of suppressed “bigoted” subjects, all supported by quotations from many of history’s greatest personages. Learn who is responsible for the millions of Aryan crosses covering the world’s battlefields. Why our sons and daughters died bravely but in vain. Learn why the “browning of America will alter everything in society from politics and education to industry, values and culture.” (TIME 4-9-90). Learn who has committed treason - and must be brought to justice! This carefully documented treatise exposes the JEWS and explains what you must do to protect your White family. Kill the Best Gentiles! Is a must for every concerned parent and a manual for every student of World History.' http://74.125.155.132/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 On a personal note, I was struck by the eerie similarity of Von Brunn's phrase 'Learn who has committed treason - and must be brought to justice!' And the email that was sent to me a few days ago by wearechangela, just after the Von Brunn shooting at the Holocaust Museum: ''Traitors are being lined up. All members of NIST who put their report together are complicit in treason. They are 9/11 coverup criminals. Choose your side now' The posts were removed by the authors, but the youtube ID of the posters still remain, and I will keep them there for future reference. Here is a link to the page, and you'll see if you click the ID, it takes you to the youtube page of WEARECHANGELA, which is a 9/11 truth group with national affiliations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKgtmnf63Nw This is where the link goes to: http://www.youtube.com/user/wearechangela On that page you will find this greeting: 'We would love for you to join our meet-up group. Let's get out there and wake people up! We organize street actions big and small. We organize truth actions for confronting politicians and other influential figures. We create content for YouTube to help spur the 9/11 Truth movement, and to let the media know that WE KNOW!' The language they sent to me, using their youtube ID, is almost identical to that of Mr. Von Brunn. |
18th June 2009, 08:40 PM | #88 |
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I humbly beg to differ. Here's the real, true "numerologist of the 9/11 Twoof Movement":
CARTMAN: So now, the inevitable question: if terrorists didn't cause 9/11, who did? [he begins to use his fingers to to show the numbers as he says them] Remember that there are in fact two towers. Two minus one is one; one one - 11; two minus one is one; one one, and there are nine members on Silverstein's board of directors. That's nine-one-one. Nine-eleven. And take 2 - 1 + 9/11 and you get 12, which leads us all to the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks. [click. Kyle now appears superimposed on the 9/11 picture already onscreen].Kyle! KYLE: ME -- ?!? Cartman: Twelve contains the numbers one and two, just like the toilet yesterday where womebody went number two instead of number one! And one and two with 911 and you get 914! Drop the 4 and it's 91! Exactly the score Kyle got on his spelling test twelve days after 9/11! Who has the most to gain from 9/11?! Kyle! Who was nowhere to be found the morning the towers fell?! Kyle! Who dropped the deuce in the urinal?! Kyle! But probably the most damning of all is the evidence seen in this photo of Tower 2! [clicks, and another shot of the Twin Towers is shown] When I zoomed in I saw what first appeared to be a blur, [he zooms in on the picture, which just becomes pixilated] but when I computer-enhanced it, [the pixilation disappears as the picture sharpens - it's a drawing of an evil Kyle with a large, sharp knife in his right hand] You almost got away with it, you sneaky ********. |
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18th June 2009, 08:48 PM | #89 |
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20th June 2009, 12:38 PM | #90 |
Illuminator
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The Wide World of Woo
Holocaust denial, 9/11 denial, Obama denial.
In yet another example of the strange synergy of various denial/conspiracy movements and their followers, it turns out the Mr. Von Brunn is also a Birther. The lunatic denial of basic facts is almost a cookie-cutter template, right down to his 'WHY DON'T WE SEE ONE WORD OF THIS IN ANY OF THE MEDIA?' Almost verbatim a standard truther question. James Von Brunn: 'Obama is missing! DN.no (Nowegian Forum) ^ | December 2, 2008 | James W. von Brunn Posted on Tue Dec 2 20:40:03 2008 by wannabegeek Obama is missing! The American People Demand to Know: WHO SENT YOU??? Obama has lived for 48 years without leaving any footprints -- none! There is no Obama documentation -- no records -- no paper trail -- none -- this is no accident. It is being done on purpose with Media help - but to serve whom & why??? MISSING-HIDDEN DOCUMENTS: Original, vault copy of Certificate of Live Birth in the USA -- Not Released (1 version hidden in Hawaii, Original found in Kenya) Certificate of Live Birth -- Released - Proven Counterfeit (www.ObamaFiles.com) Obama/Dunham marriage license -- Not released Soetoro/Dunham marriage license -- Not released Soetoro adoption records -- Not released Fransiskus Assisi School School application -- Not Released Punahou School records -- Not released Selective Service Registration -- Released - Proven Counterfeit Occidental College records -- Not released Passport (Pakistan) -- Not released Columbia College records -- Not released Columbia thesis -- Not released Harvard College records -- Not released Harvard Law Review articles -- None (maybe 1, Not Signed) Baptism certificate -- None Medical records -- Not released Illinois State Senate records -- None (Locked up to prohibit public view Illinois State Senate schedule -- Lost (All other Illinois state senators' records are intact) Law practice client list -- Not released University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None WHY DON'T WE SEE ONE WORD OF THIS IN ANY OF THE MEDIA? Love him or hate him, we all remember how the press went to great lengths to find out every move that President Bush made ... finally unable to come up with anything factual, so they created it! When their accusations were proven empty, they refused to retract one word of the fraud they perpetrated on the American people. Dan Rather lost his job over fraudulent documents, because common people like you & me reached out and ripped CBS to pieces. They couldn't stand the loss of sponsors OR viewers! The same Media went to great lengths to scandalize & destroy Sarah Palin. She maintains a 91% approval rating among voters from all parties, thanks to the Internet and investigative journalists who don't work for the mainstream media. NOW ------- The Supreme Court has scheduled a Conference for Dec 5th about Obama's U. S. Citizenship. STILL, not a word about any of this from the Media. If it were not for the Internet and talk radio, American citizens would become the servants of a dishonest & conspiratorial Media. THINK ABOUT IT. IT DIDN'T USED TO BE THIS WAY! How much longer are we going to sit on our hands & say not a word? AND DON'T THINK THE MEDIA SIMPLY DOESN'T KNOW - THEY ARE GETTING POUNDED WITH EMAILS ABOUT IT!!! Obama could not get a simple security clearance with the information the government has on him ---- NOBODY COULD! NOW he is privy to every top secret America has! What is going on??? WHERE ARE THE GOOD PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY - ARE YOU OUT THERE??? Submitted by: James W. von Brunn |
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Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon' |
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20th June 2009, 02:44 PM | #91 |
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You are so stupid alienentity.
Clearly the reptilians killed him and replaced him with a double. DUH :P |
20th June 2009, 06:19 PM | #92 |
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I don't wish to dignify the thread started by 'Galileo' by posting there - the thread titled 'Is 9/11 research 'anti-semitic?' by Jim Fetzer - but I must say that it is very telling that G wishes to reference Jim Fetzer as a credible source...of anything.
Well, I shouldn't be so harsh. Fetzer is a wonderful source...of mindless hot air! String a few Fetzers together and you could generate a gigawatt of windpower. Feel free to expand on the Fetzer/anti-semite subject on this thread. Don't give 'Galileo' the floor on this one. |
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Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon' |
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20th June 2009, 06:23 PM | #93 |
Illuminator
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Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon' |
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30th June 2009, 09:47 PM | #94 |
Illuminator
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More links between antisemitic propaganda and 9/11 'truth', as seen with Canadian Liberal candidate Leslie Hughes
http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/506806 Thanks to STACKO for the link. Here's the original post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...38#post4851638 I noticed a reference also to John Gleeson, former Editor of the Winnipeg Sun, who was apparently let go over his support for 9/11 truth. Here's a link to an interview he did on CHQR 77 in Calgary with Rob Breakenridge. http://www.calgary911truth.org/my_we...leeson_in.html Thanks to JREFer and ScrewLooseChange's Brainster for the reference. |
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Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon' |
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3rd July 2009, 03:07 PM | #95 |
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I think James W. Von Brunn of course had 9/11 Truth beliefs. I do not believe he is the typical 9/11 Truther, in that most 9/11 Truthers are actually not violent, even ones that say all sorts of rhetoric are for the most part harmless.
When you consider how many people hold these sort of beliefs, there are very few acts of violence among them. |
5th July 2009, 11:51 AM | #96 |
Frequencies Not Known To Normals
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I'm pretty sure you're correct. However, the ones that do hold extreme and violent beliefs are immersed in a system that encourages talk of violent revolution, murdering public officials in the name of some notion of populist "justice," and peppered liberally with references to non-existent groups that are pulling the strings.
Couple that with the general nature of folks heavily immersed in the 9/11 TM, or any other hardcore conspiracy canard for that matter, to have strained relationships with their family, and you have what amounts to very fertile soil for someone with violent tendencies to push over the line into true violent extremism. Most of the internet chest-beating you see on places like PrisonPlanet, Infowars, LC Forum, and ATS is just that - people talking big behind a computer about revolting against the "global elite." However, some will take this as a "call to arms" and with comparatively small voices of reason and restraint encouraged in the 9/11 TM, it is a dangerous environment for already unstable individuals. |
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EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT! |
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6th July 2009, 04:28 PM | #97 |
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JoeyDonuts,
As I said even individuals who speak of such violent rhetoric are usually harmless, and when you consider how many people hold CT beliefs, very little violence has occurred as a result of these individuals actions. Even despite all the chest thumping some of these people are engaging in. Truthfully, and I've already said this before, I believe the 9/11 truth movement as it's become is for the most part the product of agent provocateurism. Especially the wackier beliefs such as their being no planes, and nano-thermite and stuff. You do know what an agent provocateur is right? The government, or some other group, gets some people to infiltrate a group, possibly misdirect the group and hijack it, and ultimately either goad certain people in the group into committing acts of violence or at least acts that make them look bad so as to either discredit them or justify a crack-down on them in one way or another. INRM |
6th July 2009, 04:36 PM | #98 |
Penultimate Amazing
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disinfo...the ultimate truther escape clause. When it no longer fits, or is too wacky to keep on board, label it disinfo.
Must be nice to eliminate everything that doesn't agree with the "truth" world view. TAM |
6th July 2009, 05:39 PM | #99 |
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That could be said about any extremist group. Most of those who sided with the Nazis didn't do anything, and most of the Islam extremists don't do anything violent themselves (just non-sense "behead those who insult Islam" protests).
Basically 9/11 deniers are demonstrating the same traits of vocal extremist groups of both past and present. |
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28th June 2011, 08:38 AM | #100 |
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most of the Truther comments I've seen on youtube blame the Jews for 9/11
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28th June 2011, 08:44 AM | #101 |
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I've been involved in a lot of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader.--Creed, "The Office" The tools of conquest do not necessarily come with bombs and explosions and fallout. There are weapons that are simply thoughts, attitudes, prejudices to be only found in the minds of men. Prejudices and suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless frightened search for a scapegoat has a fallout all its own.--Rod Serling |
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28th June 2011, 09:03 AM | #102 |
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1st July 2011, 12:41 PM | #103 |
Penultimate Amazing
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