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16th June 2009, 07:08 AM | #41 |
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16th June 2009, 07:11 AM | #42 |
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17th June 2009, 12:04 AM | #43 |
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17th June 2009, 08:11 AM | #44 |
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17th June 2009, 08:12 AM | #45 |
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17th June 2009, 08:47 AM | #46 |
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To get this post back on topic, here's a CNN story revealing another tie-in between the Troofers and von Brunn:
Quote:
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17th June 2009, 09:09 AM | #47 |
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I've never understood the whole numerology angle of conspiracy theories. What are a few mathematical coincidences supposed to prove anyway?
[/slight derail] |
17th June 2009, 10:06 AM | #48 |
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17th June 2009, 10:07 AM | #49 |
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That's very interesting. The phrase 'false flag operation' pops up again. The truther mantra of 'inside job' is interchangeable with 'false flag operation'. We've all seen them used many times, I would think. It's likely that these simple, popular phrases are going to be recycled thru various conspiracy cults. This probably has more to do with the way members of paranoid cults latch onto ideas than anything else....at least that's my read at this point. However, the white-supremacist, antisemitic component is what draws the 9/11 'truth' (Treasonous Revisionists Undermining True History) cult closer to the Nazi cult (Narcissistic Aryan Zeitgeist Idolatry). In the case of 9/11 cultists, they are unable to pin their fantasies on many specific targets, so they've largely adopted pre-existing theories such as NWO, Illuminati, and of course the old standby 'Evil Jews Control the World and Will Destroy Our Way of Life'. This might not be so significant were it not for the fact that the centerpiece of Jewish culture, Israel, is currently enmeshed in a longterm conflict with most of the Arab world, and the U.S. is largely aligned with Israel. It's obviously an extremely complicated subject, but the nub of it, as far as the 9/11 'truth' cult is concerned, is that they are actually aligning with America's enemies, from whose territories the 9/11 attacks originated. There are many forms of misguided patriotism (including Nazism), and 9/11 'truth' is one of them, IMHO. The particular toxic admixture of James Von Brunn is no coincidence, it is predictable. |
17th June 2009, 11:37 AM | #50 |
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Neo Nazis and the US military?
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20...=/news/feature
Seems JREF will gladly try and smear 9/11 truthers with anything they can, even when the evidence is suspect...I mean really? Someone under his name posts comments on 9/11 truth sites is proof? ROFL, I could very easily pick any real life "debunker" and take his name and post a lot of stuff on a neo-nazi website then point to it and say "LOOK, debunkers will associate with anyone". Then again even if it truly was him that means nothing, heck looking at it that way all JREF debunkers are "crazy" "nutty" "conspiracy theorists" because some "conspiracy theorists" post in JREF. I mean come on is that the best you have? Do you realize that the facts of the story coming out the past few days, the museum killing... wait no, how about you all tell me what the details of the museum shooting are and we will see if your beliefs stand up to the facts...(this is where you try and imply what my beliefs on the shooting are to try and make me look bad folks, so go ahead) BTW, that salon article I linked to does not mean the military in general is a neo nazi organisation or that anyone else in the military is a neo nazi. The point is there is far far far more to tie neo nazis to the army than there is tying von brunn to 9/11 truth. Which just goes to show you how far JREF'ers will go for a smear. |
17th June 2009, 11:58 AM | #51 |
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Steve, do you believe the museum shooting was a false flag operation?
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17th June 2009, 12:01 PM | #52 |
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http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo |
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17th June 2009, 12:04 PM | #53 |
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http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo |
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17th June 2009, 12:06 PM | #54 |
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17th June 2009, 12:07 PM | #55 | ||||||
Illuminator
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Steve, sometimes the truth hurts. Sometimes things actually are the way they appear.
9/11 truthers are being smeared in their own feces. I say, if the **** fits, they must wear it.
Thanks for your vigilance. It kind of spoils the double-entendre, which was meant to be a joke. SHOE is a four-letter-word.. Oh well. |
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17th June 2009, 12:14 PM | #56 |
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i think hes implying that it was a false flag petition signing lol
he thinks THIS was a FFO after that i would indeed say that he suspects the shooting was too lol im waiting for him to post "how do you know they didnt drag a confused old man into a building hand him a gun shoot a guy and run out? WHERES THE PROOF THEY DIDNT!!!!!!!" |
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"I joined this forum to learn about the people who think that 9/11 was an inside job. I've learned that they believe nutty things and are not very good at explaining them." - FineWine "The agencies involved with studying the WTC collapse no more needed to consider explosives than the police need to consider brain cancer in a shooting death." - ElMondoHummus |
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17th June 2009, 12:23 PM | #57 |
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"ridicule, ridicule, ridicule" ROFL never anything new from you bunch
There are about 250 words in my post and I put quotation marks around 5 of them. That sure sounds like "every other word" doesn't it!!! Did you notice the words that I put quotation marks around? Any idea why I did that? This is another chance for you to "ridicule" me dude, go for it and make yourself look cool to all your buddies here on JREF and give the rest of the world something else to laugh at you for. BTW did you ignore the question in my "rant" as you called it? you know where I asked you to tell me what the details of the shooting were LOL... |
17th June 2009, 12:24 PM | #58 |
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17th June 2009, 12:25 PM | #59 |
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To match 911
It is amazing a dirt dumb neoNAZI made it past IQ test to enter the army; there are exceptions everywhere. That dolt you posted lied to get in the army; he would fit great with 911 Only one tie to 911 You seem to be supporting neoNAZIs. Are you another one in 911 Brunn is with you in the 911TruthLies cult movement; it this why you are defending him and his neoNAZI ideals? |
17th June 2009, 12:26 PM | #60 |
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17th June 2009, 12:38 PM | #61 |
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WOW in all that you still managed to include the "beachnut mantra" ... good job.
LOL, it is very possible it really was von brunn who signed the petition, as if that means anything, but of course you downplay the neo nazi in the army but overhype the neo nazi in the 9/11 truth movement. ROFL so transparent. Oh and again... |
17th June 2009, 12:38 PM | #62 |
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Hey Steve,
It's a fact that Mr. Von Brunn's name appears on a petition, you claim (without proof, btw) that this was someone else posting under Von Brunn's name. You fail since you have no evidence. But it gets much worse for you Steve. Since you've been so aggressive, I did a bit of research on Mr. Von Brunn and his 9/11 truther beliefs. Are you sitting down? Copies of recent emails Von Brunn sent 'mentioned the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in an e-mail criticizing last month's dueling speeches on national security by President Barack Obama and former Vice President Dick Cheney. He wrote that "all informed men" know Sept. 11 was "a USA-Israel inside job." Von Brunn sometimes sent several e-mails a day to friends and fellow white supremacists. The messages were obtained by The Associated Press from William B. Fox, who was on von Brunn's e-mail list. http://www.examiner.com/a-2065479~Vo...land_Headlines OopsyDaisies! There's your hard evidence, Mr. Denier! How deliciously ironic that the truth hurts the 'Truth' movement. Von Brunn (an antisemite) was a truther. Your denials are in vain. |
17th June 2009, 12:43 PM | #63 |
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Steve, just FYI, a couple of days after the holocaust museum shooting, I received this email from 'wearechangela':
'Traitors are being lined up. All members of NIST who put their report together are complicit in treason. They are 9/11 coverup criminals. Choose your side now' Coincidence? |
17th June 2009, 12:51 PM | #64 |
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17th June 2009, 01:00 PM | #65 |
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Another implied "false-flag"; the "false flag 911 petition signing". Good job adding another car to the paranoid 911
Good job bringing up a neoNAZI who lied to get in the Army and comparing a neoNAZI who does not lie about being a nut case NAZI and a 911Truther with nut case ideas on 911, the FED, and he hates Jews. Your smoke screen to defend your fellow truther who is a neoNAZI is not working. Oh and again... Why are you unable to express your views on this issue and make it clear your beliefs on 911 and the nut case neoNAZI who kills and loves the 911TruthLies movement so much he signed his name; have you signed your name? Do you support Brunn's action? |
17th June 2009, 01:17 PM | #66 |
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It is a badly-run constitutional bureaucracy which is not sufficiently self-aware to clap anti-semitic neo-nazi 9/11 & Holocaust revisionists in irons. Quite unlike the organizations anti-semitic neo-nazi 9/11 & Holocaust revisionists run themselves which they claim to be 100% in control of.
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17th June 2009, 07:47 PM | #67 |
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Quotation marks are used to quote other peoples text. I don't use the terms "debunker", "crazy", "nutty", "conspiracy theorists". Those are terms "debunkers" use, so when I say those words I am quoting "debunkers" use of the words and I use them exactly to point out that it is not my wording but the wording of others.
So are you saying that is not what quotation marks are used for? Or did you just get caught in an attempted "ridicule, ridicule, ridicule" debunking tactic that backfired? |
17th June 2009, 08:10 PM | #68 |
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So let me get this straight...
You don't use those terms, so when you use those terms, you put quotation marks around them to show that you don't use those terms. Correct? |
17th June 2009, 08:14 PM | #69 |
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LOL I never made any such claim, but since you bring up evidence, what is your evidence that it was him that made that post?
If you claim simply because it says his name that it must be him...then I urge you to go to this prison planet article and scroll down to where alienentity made a comment... http://www.prisonplanet.com/governme...n-clinics.html Are you saying that is not you? Hard evidence? You linked to an article that made claims without backing those claims up Again what denials? I have simply asked for proof of your claims, none of which has been forthcoming. I ask for proof because there has been no proof of anything yet all JREF is more than happy to try and smear "truthers" by association. Gee what number is that on the list? Oh wait let me write it out... "Practice debunkery-by-association. Lump together all phenomena popularly deemed paranormal and suggest that their proponents and researchers speak with a single voice. In this way you can indiscriminately drag material across disciplinary lines or from one case to another to support your views as needed. For example, if a claim having some superficial similarity to the one at hand has been (or is popularly “assumed” to have been) exposed as fraudulent, cite it as if it were an appropriate example. Then put on a gloating smile, lean back in your armchair and simply say, "I rest my case." " "32 A quick way of getting rid of an opponent’s assertion, or of throwing suspicion on it, is by putting it into some odious category. Example: You can say, “That is fascism” or “Atheism” or “Superstition.” In making an objection of this kind you take for granted 1)That the assertion or question is identical with, or at least contained in, the category cited; and 2)The system referred to has been entirely refuted by the current audience. " |
17th June 2009, 08:17 PM | #70 |
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17th June 2009, 08:26 PM | #71 |
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ROFL dude, relax a little, and then tell me why you are accusing me of defending von brunn? Oh I'm sorry was I not supposed to point out that I never did so that you could smear ME with that, I really apologize for ruining your smear.
BTW the latest reports coming out seem to show that the guard that died was accidentally shot by one of his fellow guards, not to mention that the gun that von brunn leisurly carried into the museum (and was allowed in with it for some odd reason) was so old that you have to wonder if it still worked. |
17th June 2009, 08:29 PM | #72 |
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"Ridicule, ridicule, ridicule. It is far and away the single most chillingly effective weapon in the war against discovery and innovation. Ridicule has the unique power to make people of virtually any persuasion go completely unconscious in a twinkling. It fails to sway only those few who are of sufficiently independent mind not to buy into the kind of emotional consensus that ridicule provides."
2 Use different meanings of your opponent’s words to refute his argument. Go for the classics...nice, I hear some people still fall for those 2 tactics |
17th June 2009, 08:34 PM | #73 |
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So you make excuses for one group having neo nazis in it
Then make unsubstantiated claims about the other to try and keep the smear alive. So the US military is not 100% in control of it's people? Do you really want to make that claim? Think of the consequences of that claim. Now also where has any 9/11 truth group ever claimed to be 100% in control of it's members? Please cite evidence. |
17th June 2009, 08:41 PM | #74 |
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17th June 2009, 10:36 PM | #75 |
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Yeah, the US Military is where the acronym SNAFU originated.
And its not gotten a lot better since except for a while at the peak of really hot wars. Even then it was in SPITE of the bureaucracy that it succeeded. I'm happy to make that claim. Or have you never heard the story of our WW-II submarine torpedos? |
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18th June 2009, 01:59 AM | #76 |
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Bravo Steve Austin, you have done a heckova job being deceptive, dishonest and evasive.
First, you vociferously try to deny that the person signing the petition under Mr. Von Brunn's name and state was actually him, then you deny making that denial. That tactic may work in some places, but it doesn't wash. For the record, here's what you wrote in the post I responded to
Quote:
To which I responded: 'It's a fact that Mr. Von Brunn's name appears on a petition, you claim (without proof, btw) that this was someone else posting under Von Brunn's name. You fail since you have no evidence.' Next you wrote: Riiiight...You're clearly denying that it was Mr. Von Brunn, suggesting that it must have been a fraudulent person (such as yourself, perhaps) at work. But you offer no proof, of course. Then, I suppose because you realize perfectly well that it probably was Mr. Von Brunn, you hedge the other way and poison the well:
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Further false claims by you:
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And finally, your denial of denial, compounding the falsehoods you presented today:
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1) Denial that Mr. Von Brunn actually signed the petition 2) Denial that there was anything to back Mr. Von Brunn's emails 3) You did not ask, prior to this post, for proof of my claims. I could hardly respond to a post I hadn't read yet, so this is yet another deception by you. btw, I do actually have evidence that you assumed my moniker on another forum. Go ahead and try it on this forum, and see how far you get. If you're so sure that Mr. Von Brunn didn't sign that petition, or write those emails, why don't you contact him and find out? Or contact the websites and his email list recipients? What are you waiting for - you can prove us all wrong and be a hero, showing that Von Brunn was not a truther. But if you want to prove that 9/11 truth has, at it's heart, deep antisemitism, you have a long, long way to go. And don't let the door hit you on your way out, sport. |
18th June 2009, 02:12 AM | #77 |
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File the exchanges with Steve Austin under 'Truther futilely tries to dislodge neoNazi James Von Brunn from 9/11 truth movement'
It's marginally satisfying to see the ugly underbelly of 9/11 'truth' exposed for what it is, and see them scramble out of their rabbit holes to defend the flock. 9/11 'truth' is, after all, based on irrational beliefs and hatreds, lies and deceptions. It hasn't a moral basis to stand on, particularly in the way it focusses on Jews - the legions of keyboard cowards trying to implicate Israel, Mossad, Michael Chertoff, Larry Silverstein (and anyone else with a vaguely Jewish sounding name) in the worst terror attack in US history, with the 'inside job'. It's about as ugly as humans get, IMHO. |
18th June 2009, 02:37 AM | #78 |
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"As you know, Bush never attempted to link Saddam to the 9/11 attacks." -Ron Wieck "The only way for there to be no conspiracy is for nothing to exist." -Travis [DRG] is a follower of Jesus Christ and the Truth, so I will follow St. Griffin as well in this regard. -Galileo |
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18th June 2009, 05:43 AM | #79 |
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I joined briefly to play on the trivia team (for bar dollars), but most of the members were real pragmatists. I enjoyed hanging out with my "read a book, see the movie" club more.
Then I formed my own team and we are the reigning champs of the MISFIT team trivia challenge. MISFIT.org TEAM DOLEMITE! Dolemite's our name and [rule 10]ing up mother [rule 10]ers is our game. This years win was dedicated to Rudy Ray Moore (Dolemite himself). |
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18th June 2009, 05:46 AM | #80 |
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"You post a lie, it is proven 100% false, you move the goalposts and post yet another lie and it continues on around till we're back to the original lie as if it will somehow become true if it's re-iterated again. The same misquotes over and over again. The same hindsight bias, appeals to authority, etc." -lapman describing every twoofer on the internet |
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