IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 24th June 2011, 11:24 AM   #1
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
Magnetic Thermite and Thermal Bonding

The difficulty with using a finite quantity of Thermite is to get it stick to the steel beams.

Steel is very magnetic.

Neodymium Iron Boron magnets are flammable. A modified composition of Neodymium Iron Boron may burn hotter than standard thermite. The enthalpy of Nd and Oxygen is higher than for Al and Oxygen

Thermite like compounds can be made magnetic. Magnets will usually stop working (Curie Temperature) before the thermite will ignite.

Coating unmagnetized thermite pellets with a thermal bonding material, before magnetizing them, will allow them to mechanically bond to the steel. When the temperature exceeds the magnetic thermal limits (Curie Temperature), they will be bonded to the beam. After a time the jet fuel fire will reach ignition temperature for the material bonded to the steel.

Upon ignition the steel beam will weaken or melt.

Neodymium Iron Boron magnets are very expensive, but the cost would not have been an issue for this application.

Were any strange elemental signatures detected in the dust?

The building did not need to be specially prepared. Even with access to the site tightly controlled by the FBI, headed by Pasquale J. D'Amuro, too much evidence might have survived.

Enough magnetic thermite could have been in the cargo hold of the planes to do the job. It could have been actually been listed in the cargo and ignored, or it was placed there by the ground crew in full knowledge of the results.

A single security firm, owned by one country, but controlled by another, was in charge of security at all the departure points for 9-11 flights. The FBI's lack of thoroughness in all of this appears to be intentional.

All the directly impacted beams had been removed by the time (a month later) when investigators were allowed on site. Why were they in such a hurry to recycle the metal and then argue for years about how to use the empty site?

Statement of Anthony Weiner (He was stupid and he made a lot of enemies.)
Thousands of families will enjoy dinner together tonight because even under the most unimaginable circumstances, these proud buildings stood tall for more than an hour. But for the families of those lost, today's report offers little consolation and leaves many questions unanswered. And, sadly, because of the early missteps in the investigation, some of the most vexing questions may never be unraveled.

Thousands of tons of steel were carted away and recycled before any expert could examine what could have been telltale clues. Support trusses, fireproofing fragments, and even burned-out electrical switches that might have given scientists and engineers insight were lost forever even before an investigation was underway.

Ladies and gentlemen, this amounts to what is, indeed, a crime scene investigation. Yet, not only is there no smoking gun, there wasn't even a weapon found. There weren't even fingerprints taken, and, if truth be told, there wasn't even a detective assigned to the case until very late in the process.

THE INVESTIGATION OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSE: FINDINGS, RECOMMENDATIONS, AND NEXT STEPS


Last edited by Gaspode; 26th June 2011 at 06:17 AM.
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:31 AM   #2
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, this amounts to what is, indeed, a crime scene investigation. Yet, not only is there no smoking gun, there wasn't even a weapon found. There weren't even fingerprints taken, and, if truth be told, there wasn't even a detective assigned to the case until very late in the process.
So the fact that no evidence of a crime exists proves that a crime was committed? Holy crap. When I woke up this morning there was no sign of forced entry in my house, nothing was missing, no police were called, and no fingerprints were taken.

I'VE BEEN ROBBED!!!!1111!!1!1!1111!!!!
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:33 AM   #3
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 34,249
You'd still need more thermite than steel.

Dave
__________________
There is truth and there are lies.

- President Joseph R. Biden, January 20th, 2021
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:40 AM   #4
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Quote:
Enough magnetic thermite could have been in the cargo hold of the planes to do the job. It could have been actually been listed in the cargo and ignored, or it was placed there by the ground crew in full knowledge of the results.

I'm almost afraid to ask.....

What are you getting at?
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:42 AM   #5
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
The buildings survived the impacts. The fire is presumed to cause the collapse. By law the scene should have been left alone so that lessons could be learned about how the fire caused the building structure fail.

Building 7 had minor damage and a few fires when it collapsed in about 7 to 8 seconds into it's own footprint......? How it happened is covered by some reports filed under fiction.

Why it had to collapse is easier to figure out.

After a disaster like this, FEMA would normally run the show.

FEMA was in building 7.

Instead of FEMA Rudolph Giuliani would use NYC's Department of Design and Construction. They would contract out the removal of steel to be scrapped and smelted.

These people hit the ground so fast that they had been removing material for a month before the engineering investigators were allowed on site. Actually the engineering investigators weren't allowed on site, they had to take what was given to them.

By September 28, 2001, (17 Days) 130,000 tons (260 Million pounds) of debris had already been removed from the site, in what one journalist with unrestricted access to the site called, “the most aggressive possible schedule of demolition and debris removal.” rememberbuilding7.org/destruction-of-evidence/

They were such a hurry they didn't care about the workers health.

Who was in charge for site security? Pasquale J. D'Amuro of the FBI. If those men who were dressed like FBI agents looking for the flight recorders were not FBI, whose fault was it?

Mr. D'Amuro is Chairman & Chief Executive Officer of Giuliani Security & Safety LLC, a division of Giuliani Partners LLC dedicated to security consulting. Before joining Giuliani Security & Safety, Mr. D'Amuro served as the Assistant Director in Charge of the New York FBI Office, where......


New York City’s Department of Design and Construction (DDC) took control of the site as a result of Mayor Giuliani’s “back-room decision to scrap the organization charts, to finesse the city’s own Office of Emergency Management (OEM), and to allow the DDC to proceed”:[vi]

Yes this probably makes Rudolph Giuliani and Pasquale J. D'Amuro TRAITORS
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:51 AM   #6
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Quote:
The buildings survived the impacts. The fire is presumed did cause the collapse. By law the scene should have been left alone so that lessons could be learned about how the fire caused the building structure fail.
There's a hangar at JFK full of steel to this day. Steel found its way to the Freshkills landfill, both places where it was studied. In case you forgot, people were UNDER the steel at the WTC site.

Quote:
Building 7 had minor damage and a few fires when it collapsed in about 7 to 8 seconds into it's own footprint......? How it happened is covered by some reports filed under fiction.
Holy 2004 Batman. It had severe damage and massive unfought fires. Took about 20 seconds to collapse. Try again.

Quote:
After a disaster like this, FEMA would normally run the show.

FEMA was in building 7.
Actually, they weren't. They evacuated- which is why nobody cared about WTC 7. It was empty.

Quote:
Enough magnetic thermite could have been in the cargo hold of the planes to do the job. It could have been actually been listed in the cargo and ignored, or it was placed there by the ground crew in full knowledge of the results.
Again - please explain the purpose of this statement.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:54 AM   #7
twinstead
Penultimate Amazing
 
twinstead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
Deathdart I'm sure you honestly think you know what you're talking about. All I can say is be true to yourself, I suppose; sometimes that's all one has.
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison
twinstead is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:56 AM   #8
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
The difficulty with using a finite quantity of Thermite is to get it stick to the steel beams.

Steel is very magnetic.

Neodymium Iron Boron magnets are flammable. A modified composition of Neodymium Iron Boron may burn hotter than standard thermite. The enthalpy of Nd and Oxygen is higher than for Al and Oxygen

Thermite like compounds can be made magnetic. Magnets will usually stop working (Curie Temperature) before the thermite will ignite.

Coating unmagnetized thermite pellets with a thermal bonding material, before magnetizing them, will allow them to mechanically bond to the steel. When the temperature exceeds the magnetic thermal limits (Curie Temperature), they will be bonded to the beam. After a time the jet fuel fire will reach ignition temperature for the material bonded to the steel....
(snip)
This is nonsense.

Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
... if truth be told, there wasn't even a detective assigned to the case until very late in the process.
This is false.
Quote:
As you know, on September 11, 2001, Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and New York Police Department (NYPD) detectives were dispatched to the Fresh Kills Landfill on Staten Island, New York to process the debris of the World Trade Center (WTC) for physical evidence and human remains. This recovery effort, the largest and longest in the FBI's history, resulted in 1.8 million tons of debris being collected and examined by twenty-four federal, state, and local agencies. On September 12, 2001, I was designated to lead and coordinate this effort as an Evidence Response Team (ERT) Leader. This operation ceased in August 2002.
Also:
Quote:
In the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, the FBI's response was immediate. In a matter of hours we had deployed to each of the crash sites, ordered dozens of seasoned management personnel back to Washington, and fully staffed a 24/7 operation at our Command Center with up to 500 persons representing approximately 30 federal agencies. At the height of the 9/11 investigation, known as PENTTBOM, the FBI assigned 7,000 agents to assist full-time. The majority were reassigned from other national security and criminal investigative work. The lack of prior counterterroism training and experience, although not recognized by the OIG, needs to be factored into this discussion.
http://"http://www.fas.org/irp/congr...3rolince.html"

Quote:
To Provide the Resources Necessary to Address the September 11 Investigation,

Approximately 7,000 FBI Employees Were Redirected in Early Weeks. At its peak, approximately 6,000 Special Agents were working on the investigation with assistance from support staff. Additional resources were dedicated to the related threats and tragedies such as the anthrax investigation, Olympics security, the Richard Reid investigation, and the Daniel Pearl kidnapping.
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/2002/05/...nfactsheet.pdf
Others can chime in with the NYPD response. But the point is, you cannot make blanket assertions that are unsupported by fact.

Sorry for the rough welcome to your first post, but if you're going to make a claim, be prepared for fact-based responses to it.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 11:58 AM   #9
Sabretooth
No Ordinary Rabbit
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,757
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
The buildings survived the impacts. The fire is presumed to cause the collapse. By law the scene should have been left alone so that lessons could be learned about how the fire caused the building structure fail.

Building 7 had minor damage and a few fires when it collapsed in about 7 to 8 seconds into it's own footprint......? How it happened is covered by some reports filed under fiction.

Why it had to collapse is easier to figure out.

After a disaster like this, FEMA would normally run the show.

FEMA was in building 7.

Instead of FEMA Rudolph Giuliani would use NYC's Department of Design and Construction. They would contract out the removal of steel to be scrapped and smelted.

These people hit the ground so fast that they had been removing material for a month before the engineering investigators were allowed on site. Actually the engineering investigators weren't allowed on site, they had to take what was given to them.

By September 28, 2001, (17 Days) 130,000 tons (260 Million pounds) of debris had already been removed from the site, in what one journalist with unrestricted access to the site called, “the most aggressive possible schedule of demolition and debris removal.” rememberbuilding7.org/destruction-of-evidence/

They were such a hurry they didn't care about the workers health.

Who was in charge for site security? Pasquale J. D'Amuro of the FBI. If those men who were dressed like FBI agents looking for the flight recorders were not FBI, whose fault was it?

Mr. D'Amuro is Chairman & Chief Executive Officer of Giuliani Security & Safety LLC, a division of Giuliani Partners LLC dedicated to security consulting. Before joining Giuliani Security & Safety, Mr. D'Amuro served as the Assistant Director in Charge of the New York FBI Office, where......


New York City’s Department of Design and Construction (DDC) took control of the site as a result of Mayor Giuliani’s “back-room decision to scrap the organization charts, to finesse the city’s own Office of Emergency Management (OEM), and to allow the DDC to proceed”:[vi]

Yes this probably makes Rudolph Giuliani and Pasquale J. D'Amuro TRAITORS


__________________
--------------------------------------
Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit!

Sabretooth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:03 PM   #10
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
These people hit the ground so fast that they had been removing material for a month before the engineering investigators were allowed on site. Actually the engineering investigators weren't allowed on site, they had to take what was given to them.
This, too, is false. Dr. Astaneh-Asl was documented as having left for New York on September 19th, and being able to start working within a week of his arrival.

And while the Bechtel Safety, Health, and Environment team was more taksed with monitoring occupational safety issues during the cleanup than investigating the wreckage, they too were allowed in within days. They're documented as arriving at Ground Zero on September 13th.

I'd need to look up the WPI researcher (was it Barnett?) who alsow as onsite. I've never paid attention to his Ground Zero activities, only his later work on the sulfidization of the steel. But it would be interesting to see when he arrived.

At any rate, the claim is false.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:04 PM   #11
Sunstealer
Illuminator
 
Sunstealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
The buildings survived the impacts. The fire is presumed to cause the collapse. By law the scene should have been left alone so that lessons could be learned about how the fire caused the building structure fail.

Building 7 had minor damage and a few fires when it collapsed in about 7 to 8 seconds into it's own footprint......? How it happened is covered by some reports filed under fiction.

Why it had to collapse is easier to figure out.

After a disaster like this, FEMA would normally run the show.

FEMA was in building 7.

Instead of FEMA Rudolph Giuliani would use NYC's Department of Design and Construction. They would contract out the removal of steel to be scrapped and smelted.

These people hit the ground so fast that they had been removing material for a month before the engineering investigators were allowed on site. Actually the engineering investigators weren't allowed on site, they had to take what was given to them.

By September 28, 2001, (17 Days) 130,000 tons (260 Million pounds) of debris had already been removed from the site, in what one journalist with unrestricted access to the site called, “the most aggressive possible schedule of demolition and debris removal.” rememberbuilding7.org/destruction-of-evidence/

They were such a hurry they didn't care about the workers health.

Who was in charge for site security? Pasquale J. D'Amuro of the FBI. If those men who were dressed like FBI agents looking for the flight recorders were not FBI, whose fault was it?

Mr. D'Amuro is Chairman & Chief Executive Officer of Giuliani Security & Safety LLC, a division of Giuliani Partners LLC dedicated to security consulting. Before joining Giuliani Security & Safety, Mr. D'Amuro served as the Assistant Director in Charge of the New York FBI Office, where......


New York City’s Department of Design and Construction (DDC) took control of the site as a result of Mayor Giuliani’s “back-room decision to scrap the organization charts, to finesse the city’s own Office of Emergency Management (OEM), and to allow the DDC to proceed”:[vi]

Yes this probably makes Rudolph Giuliani and Pasquale J. D'Amuro TRAITORS
Your post is off-topic for this thread. I suggest you use the search function to find the dozens of threads that discuss your queries.

I'm not even going to bother with the magnet idea.
Sunstealer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:16 PM   #12
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Quote:
Enough magnetic thermite could have been in the cargo hold of the planes to do the job. It could have been actually been listed in the cargo and ignored, or it was placed there by the ground crew in full knowledge of the results.
OK - Absent your translation, I guess I have to assume you mean that theyTM used the aircraft that impacted the buildings (and didn't impact WTC 7) as the delivery method for thermite.

At 500MPH.

Had a guy on facebook claim the same thing - that the explosives were in the plane, so I won't stundie your remark as no two people can be THAT stupid.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:20 PM   #13
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Had a guy on facebook claim the same thing - that the explosives were in the plane, so I won't stundie your remark as no two people can be THAT stupid.
There's been worse. There was a guy - hey, old timers: Was it Christophera? - who tried to claim that the demolitions were installed during the towers construction.

I'm not saying that carrying a load of thermite in the cargo holds on a jetliner isn't right up there in terms of lunacy. I'm only saying that the cuckoo movement is holding true to form.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."

Last edited by ElMondoHummus; 24th June 2011 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Corrected really bad typo
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:29 PM   #14
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
There's been worse. There was a guy - hey, old timers: Was it Christophera? - who tried to claim that the demolitions were installed during the towers construction.

I'm not saying that carrying a load of thermite in the cargo holds on a jetliner isn't right up there in terms of lunacy. I'm only saying that the cuckoo movement is holding true to form.
Didn't that nutcase say that all large buildings had demolition charges built into them?
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:29 PM   #15
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Indeed. My previous most stupid truther remark was similar to yours - but theyTM did it THAT DAY.

After the collapses of the twin towers they went into WTC 7 and rigged it to blow.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:30 PM   #16
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 35,398
Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
OK - Absent your translation, I guess I have to assume you mean that theyTM used the aircraft that impacted the buildings (and didn't impact WTC 7) as the delivery method for thermite.

At 500MPH.

Had a guy on facebook claim the same thing - that the explosives were in the plane, so I won't stundie your remark as no two people can be THAT stupid.
In Trutherland it is perfectly possible.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:33 PM   #17
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
In Trutherland it is perfectly possible.
Well, I've yet to see a video that proves it's NOT


NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:35 PM   #18
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
Where is the Data?

I have not found any data or photographs detailing what ended up in storage.

I have not found any data or photographs of the individual I-Beams (or any) that had been struck by the plane impacts. A thorough investigation would have had the entire affected floors laid out and recovered. You have seen that done with entire planes after crashes.

There was no obvious driving need to smelt down everything immediately. Wait there is one good reason. Whatever they were needing to hide, they did an excellent job of hiding it.
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:46 PM   #19
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Quote:
I have not found any data or photographs detailing what ended up in storage.
I suggest actually looking.

Quote:
I have not found any data or photographs of the individual I-Beams (or any) that had been struck by the plane impacts. A thorough investigation would have had the entire affected floors laid out and recovered. You have seen that done with entire planes after crashes.
The actual beams struck by the plane? You're asking for the impossible. As for reconstruction, that's done to determine the cause of a crash. We know what happened to the trade centers.

Quote:
There was no obvious driving need to smelt down everything immediately. Wait there is one good reason. Whatever they were needing to hide, they did an excellent job of hiding it.
If they "smelted everything" - how is it that absurd amounts of steel beams survive to this day?
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 12:58 PM   #20
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
I have not found any data or photographs of the individual I-Beams (or any) that had been struck by the plane impacts...
NCSTAR 1-3C.

The fact that you haven't found them doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means that you haven't been looking in the right places.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:06 PM   #21
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
What Data?

Where should I look for this data, is it with the holy grail?

The affected steel could have picked out if you were acting like an investigator or an archaeologist and not a thief in the night. It would have been difficult to reconstruct, but became impossible when you aren't given time or resources.

Where is the catalog, with a photograph of each piece of steel, and its probable location in each of the buildings? Its been nearly 10 years where is it? You can have a warehouse of totally irrelevant steel that doesn't tell any story.

What happened at the World Trade Center would cause the United States to spend a lot of lives and money. But there wasn't any time or money to document what happened at the World Trade Center?
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:12 PM   #22
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
The buildings survived the impacts. The fire is presumed to cause the collapse. By law the scene should have been left alone so that lessons could be learned about how the fire caused the building structure fail.
What law is that? Please be specific.
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:19 PM   #23
Sabretooth
No Ordinary Rabbit
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wyoming, NY
Posts: 6,757
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
Where should I look for this data
<snip>
You could start by learning how to use the search function...
__________________
--------------------------------------
Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit!

Sabretooth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:21 PM   #24
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Quote:
Where should I look for this data, is it with the holy grail?
If the holy grail is located in a hangar at JFK airport, yes.

http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...49l842l0.4.1l5

I even did the legwork for ya.

Quote:
It would have been difficult pointless to reconstruct, but became impossible when you aren't given time or resources.
Fixed it for ya.

Quote:
Where is the catalog, with a photograph of each piece of steel, and its probable location in each of the buildings? Its been nearly 10 years where is it? You can have a warehouse of totally irrelevant steel that doesn't tell any story.
You're asking both the pointless and the impossible.

Quote:
What happened at the World Trade Center would cause the United States to spend a lot of lives and money. But there wasn't any time or money to document what happened at the World Trade Center?
There was plenty of both. And I think I'm fairly safe saying that it was indeed documented. Please refer to the NIST report, the 9/11 Commission report and oh, I dunno - thousands of websites from all walks of life and experience?
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:40 PM   #25
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
Real Nice PDF difficult to copy from

90 External Panels 6% Relevant
4 from Impact zone
26 near impact zone

55 Wide flange sections and built up box sections collected, 12 Columns 10% Relevant
2 Columns from fire floors WTC1
2 Columns from Impact Zone WTC2

23 Floor Truss Material Location not positively identified 0% Relevent
25 pieces of channel connecting material Location not positively identified 0% Relevant

No Pieces could be unambiguously identified as being from WTC7. Zip NONE NADA
Nada INPUT= Fire Caused Collapse How Convenient
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:44 PM   #26
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 59,856
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
The difficulty with using a finite quantity of Thermite is to get it stick to the steel beams.

Steel is very magnetic.

Neodymium Iron Boron magnets are flammable. A modified composition of Neodymium Iron Boron may burn hotter than standard thermite. The enthalpy of Nd and Oxygen is higher than for Al and Oxygen

Thermite like compounds can be made magnetic. Magnets will usually stop working (Curie Temperature) before the thermite will ignite.

Coating unmagnetized thermite pellets with a thermal bonding material, before magnetizing them, will allow them to mechanically bond to the steel. When the temperature exceeds the magnetic thermal limits (Curie Temperature), they will be bonded to the beam. After a time the jet fuel fire will reach ignition temperature for the material bonded to the steel.

Upon ignition the steel beam will weaken or melt.

Neodymium Iron Boron magnets are very expensive, but the cost would not have been an issue for this application.

Were any strange elemental signatures detected in the dust?

The building did not need to be specially prepared. Even with access to the site tightly controlled by the FBI, headed by Pasquale J. D'Amuro, too much evidence might have survived.

Enough magnetic thermite could have been in the cargo hold of the planes to do the job. It could have been actually been listed in the cargo and ignored, or it was placed there by the ground crew in full knowledge of the results.

A single security firm, owned by one country, but controlled by another, was in charge of security at all the departure points for 9-11 flights. The FBI's lack of thoroughness in all of this appears to be intentional.

All the directly impacted beams had been removed by the time (a month later) when investigators were allowed on site. Why were they in such a hurry to recycle the metal and then argue for years about how to use the empty site?

Statement of Anthony Weiner (He was stupid and he made a lot of enemies.)
Thousands of families will enjoy dinner together tonight because even under the most unimaginable circumstances, these proud buildings stood tall for more than an hour. But for the families of those lost, today's report offers little consolation and leaves many questions unanswered. And, sadly, because of the early missteps in the investigation, some of the most vexing questions may never be unraveled.

Thousands of tons of steel were carted away and recycled before any expert could examine what could have been telltale clues. Support trusses, fireproofing fragments, and even burned-out electrical switches that might have given scientists and engineers insight were lost forever even before an investigation was underway.

Ladies and gentlemen, this amounts to what is, indeed, a crime scene investigation. Yet, not only is there no smoking gun, there wasn't even a weapon found. There weren't even fingerprints taken, and, if truth be told, there wasn't even a detective assigned to the case until very late in the process.

THE INVESTIGATION OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER COLLAPSE: FINDINGS, RECOMMENDATIONS, AND NEXT STEPS
Cool story bro.

Nominated!
__________________
Vive la liberté!
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:45 PM   #27
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
Where is the catalog, with a photograph of each piece of steel, and its probable location in each of the buildings? Its been nearly 10 years where is it? You can have a warehouse of totally irrelevant steel that doesn't tell any story.
An appeal to perfection is not falsification of the narrative, nor does it cast doubt on the conclusions drawn to date. It merely means that you have not studied what occurred during the investigation. You should start by getting a very broad grounding from Mark Roberts's page:
http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lie...lssortingopera

You should then move on to the linked articles and resources on that page. One in particular that's merely cited and not linked is the book "Report From Ground Zero", and it would be good reading for you to gain some basic knowledge.

Then, you can look through this forum for threads regarding the cleanup/recovery/recycling operations.

After that, there are the two reports: The initial FEMA 403s (aka the Building Performance Study) and the big one, the NIST Report.

Have at it. That's the base level of knowledge you need in order to be up to speed on this topic. It's not even all of it, but it's a start.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:47 PM   #28
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
90 External Panels 6% Relevant
4 from Impact zone
26 near impact zone

55 Wide flange sections and built up box sections collected, 12 Columns 10% Relevant
2 Columns from fire floors WTC1
2 Columns from Impact Zone WTC2

23 Floor Truss Material Location not positively identified 0% Relevent
25 pieces of channel connecting material Location not positively identified 0% Relevant

No Pieces could be unambiguously identified as being from WTC7. Zip NONE NADA
Nada INPUT= Fire Caused Collapse How Convenient
Oh for Chrissakes. Your request was this:
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
I have not found any data or photographs of the individual I-Beams (or any) that had been struck by the plane impacts...
Building 7 was never hit by a jetliner. Because of that, you were referred to the reports on the main towers. If you want WTC 7 info, click through the links at the top of the NIST site to the WTC 7 final report.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:49 PM   #29
Mr. Skinny
Alien Cryogenic Engineer
 
Mr. Skinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,843
Sorry, but what does the recovered steel have to do with the Henry-Couannier analysis/ existence of therm*te?

Shouldn't this be moved to the general discussion thread?
__________________
U.S.L.S 1969-1975
"thanks skinny. And bite me. :-) - The Bad Astronomer, 11/15/02 on Paltalk
"He's harmless in a rather dorky way." - Katana
"Deities do not organize, they command." - Hokulele
Mr. Skinny is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:50 PM   #30
ElMondoHummus
0.25 short of being half-witted
 
ElMondoHummus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole
Posts: 12,282
Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny View Post
Sorry, but what does the recovered steel have to do with the Henry-Couannier analysis/ existence of therm*te?

Shouldn't this be moved to the general discussion thread?
Yes, this is a good point. It should. I agree.

ETA: Request to mods submitted. Yes, this is a functional derail from the original topic, and as such, should be moved.
__________________
"AND ZEPPELINS!!! We haven't even begun to talk about Zeppelins yet! Marauding inflatable Teutonic johnsons waggling their way across the sky! Indecent and flammable all at once."

Last edited by ElMondoHummus; 24th June 2011 at 01:52 PM.
ElMondoHummus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:51 PM   #31
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Deathdart - I asked you what you mean to imply when you state that "enough thermite could be stored in the cargo bay of the aircraft"
(or something similar)

Care to answer it?
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:55 PM   #32
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
Originally Posted by Mr. Skinny View Post
Sorry, but what does the recovered steel have to do with the Henry-Couannier analysis/ existence of therm*te?
Nothing. He's just showing he can look stuff up and have no clue what it means. I think he's doing good.
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:55 PM   #33
Mr. Skinny
Alien Cryogenic Engineer
 
Mr. Skinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,843
Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus View Post
Yes, this is a good point. It should. I agree.

ETA: Request to mods submitted. Yes, this is a functional derail from the original topic, and as such, should be moved.
Thanks, EMH.

I keep forgetting it's summer and school is out for a few months. This happens every year it seems.
__________________
U.S.L.S 1969-1975
"thanks skinny. And bite me. :-) - The Bad Astronomer, 11/15/02 on Paltalk
"He's harmless in a rather dorky way." - Katana
"Deities do not organize, they command." - Hokulele
Mr. Skinny is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 01:59 PM   #34
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
Nice Government PDF Copy Disabled in PDF 8

The VOLUNTEERS didn't start until Oct 2001. They were not at the impact site but at collection points. Still why all the hurry to destroy the steel?
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:03 PM   #35
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
 
DGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West of Northshore MA
Posts: 24,748
Originally Posted by DeathDart View Post
The VOLUNTEERS didn't start until Oct 2001. They were not at the impact site but at collection points. Still why all the hurry to destroy the steel?
We all noticed you ignore requests to actually back your claim that it was "against the law" to clean-up the site like it was done. Would that be because you have not been told by your handlers how to respond?
__________________
"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

"How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41
DGM is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:22 PM   #36
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
Nice Government PDF Copy Disabled in PDF 8

The VOLUNTEERS didn't start until Oct 2001. They were not at the impact site, but at collection points. Still why all the hurry to destroy the steel?

Examination of the steel would have shown if it had been acted upon by a corrosive or thermitic substance. Also the steel from around the impacts would have conclusively answered or debunked a lot of the 9-11 conspiracy, except no one wanted clear facts and analysis. Given the extraordinary effort to prevent any factually based story of ever existing, it was intentionally set up to be a war of Sophistry.

The FBI agent in charge got into trouble for keeping fragments from the site. They were extremely anal about any materials from the site. They had a 3 week lead time to fast track anything really interesting. Why be worried about a random bit of pilfering. Random material could also be the smoking gun.

So I am one of the dump truck drivers and I see something strange in my load (say a flight recorder) I can pull off somewhere and pull it out and look at it. NO all the trucks had GPS tracking so nothing was going to get “discovered”. Did any truck drivers have unusual accidents? Probably not, they were picked to keep their mouths shut.

The true scope of why all this happened.....
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:22 PM   #37
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Quote:
Enough magnetic thermite could have been in the cargo hold of the planes to do the job. It could have been actually been listed in the cargo and ignored, or it was placed there by the ground crew in full knowledge of the results.

Deathdart - Please explain this statement. What are you implying?
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:24 PM   #38
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
Nice Government PDF Copy Disabled in PDF 8

The VOLUNTEERS didn't start until Oct 2001. They were not at the impact site but at collection points. Still why all the hurry to destroy the steel?

Examination of the steel would have shown if it had been acted upon by a corrosive or a thermitic substance. Also the steel from around the impacts would have conclusively answered or debunked a lot of the 9-11 conspiracy, except no one in charge wanted clear facts and analysis. Given the extraordinary effort to prevent any factually based story of ever existing, it was intentionally set up to be a war of Sophistry.

The FBI agent in charge got into trouble for keeping fragments from the site. They were extremely anal about any materials from the site. They had a 3 week lead time to fast track anything really interesting. Why be worried about a random bit of pilfering. Random material could also be the smoking gun.

So I am one of the dump truck drivers and I see something strange in my load (say a flight recorder) I can pull off somewhere and pull it out and look at it. NO all the trucks had GPS tracking so nothing was going to get “discovered”. Did any truck drivers have unusual accidents? Probably not, they were picked to keep their mouths shut.

The true scope of why all this happened.....
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:26 PM   #39
NoahFence
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Patriot Nation
Posts: 22,131
Quote:
Enough magnetic thermite could have been in the cargo hold of the planes to do the job. It could have been actually been listed in the cargo and ignored, or it was placed there by the ground crew in full knowledge of the results.
Please explain this statement.

*Fearless prediction - I'm going to shut off my PC now and drive home. You STILL won't answer that proving you're no better than any of the truthers I've encountered on here, and wouldn't be at all surprised if you are indeed one of them. Ergo perhaps.
NoahFence is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th June 2011, 02:34 PM   #40
DeathDart
Graduate Poster
 
DeathDart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,251
Are you grabbing your XXXXXXX passport and getting out of Dodge?
DeathDart is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories » 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.