ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Kentucky incidents , mass shootings , school shootings , shooting incidents

Reply
Old 5th November 2019, 12:39 AM   #1601
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
I think normal blinking smiling face would work nicely
[pedant]That's winking. It's a winking face[/pedant]
bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2019, 12:52 AM   #1602
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 88,044
Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
[pedant]That's winking. It's a winking face[/pedant]
You misspelled your ejaculate in the 2nd sentence.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2019, 03:09 AM   #1603
bluesjnr
Professional Nemesis for Hire
 
bluesjnr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Not where I should be.
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You misspelled your ejaculate in the 2nd sentence.
No, that would be this one....

bluesjnr is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th November 2019, 06:58 AM   #1604
Kestrel
Philosopher
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Colorado
Posts: 5,976
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I just think if you take out the personal transfer exception to background check laws there will be plenty of FFL holders to make the rent seeking issue pretty nominal. If the local gun shop is charging $50 per transfer some guy will start doing it from his garage for $25. Even if he only does one a month he will have more than paid for the FFL. If he can average one a day it is pretty decent side money. If he can average 10 a day from his garage he can look at getting a small shop expect his neighbor to start doing them for $20.
My state requires background checks by an FFL for private gun sales. The UBC law also regulates the fees charged for this service.
Kestrel is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 01:05 PM   #1605
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 32,726
School shooting in So. Cal... 2 dead, others critical, including the 16 year old gunman...

https://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-r...ry?id=67010044
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

Last edited by Mike!; 14th November 2019 at 01:06 PM.
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 01:23 PM   #1606
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 22,620
It's OK, Trump is 'monitoring the situation'
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 01:37 PM   #1607
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 88,044
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It's OK, Trump is 'monitoring the situation'
He's probably wondering if he needs to escalate his response to "thoughts and prayers"
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 03:12 PM   #1608
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,438
It has just been reported that a third victim has now died. 2 more have been injured but are reportedly in good condition. The suspect, who shot himself in the head at the end of his rampage, is in grave condition.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 03:29 PM   #1609
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,353
It's because of Video Games. VIDEO GAMES!

Nothing at all to do with guns, nothing at all.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 03:55 PM   #1610
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,337
It's ...what *checks calendar*...Thursday. Nothing out of the ordinary here, folks.
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 04:13 PM   #1611
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 20,803
I've found that every time something like this happens, I just want to go lie down in bed.
And I often do.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 04:35 PM   #1612
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 45,950
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It's because of Video Games. VIDEO GAMES!

Nothing at all to do with guns, nothing at all.
Funny, I have played some pretty violent games...."Doom" "Max Payne" the "Half Life" games, and "Bioshock" and never had the urge to go out and start shooting people.

But is not complexly about guns, either. I am curious as to why these shootings have become much more frequent within the last few years. But I guess there is not much political hay to be made from that.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 04:50 PM   #1613
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 64,252
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Funny, I have played some pretty violent games...."Doom" "Max Payne" the "Half Life" games, and "Bioshock" and never had the urge to go out and start shooting people.

But is not complexly about guns, either. I am curious as to why these shootings have become much more frequent within the last few years. But I guess there is not much political hay to be made from that.
Also, violent video games are just as popular in other countries as they are in America, and we do not see anywhere near the level of gun violence that they do in America.
__________________
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him

My mom told me she tries never to make fun of people for not knowing something.
- Randall Munroe
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 04:56 PM   #1614
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 9,116
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Funny, I have played some pretty violent games...."Doom" "Max Payne" the "Half Life" games, and "Bioshock" and never had the urge to go out and start shooting people.

But is not complexly about guns, either. I am curious as to why these shootings have become much more frequent within the last few years. But I guess there is not much political hay to be made from that.
I don't really know the answer to that one, but it seems lately that every suicidal loser decides that they want to take as many people they believe done them wrong, or just plain random strangers with them on their way out. I'm not at all convinced that gun control will fix the problem, but I'm somewhat less convinced than I used to be that it won't.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2019, 04:58 PM   #1615
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 19,407
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
But is not complexly about guns, either. I am curious as to why these shootings have become much more frequent within the last few years. But I guess there is not much political hay to be made from that.
Forty years ago "Soldier of Fortune" was something people would say about people they didn't think were serious about guns. Now that is the primary market.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:33 AM   #1616
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 22,620
Trump Tweets

We continue to monitor the terrible events at Saugus High School in Santa Clarita, California through our ongoing communications with Local, State, and Federal Authorities....


....We send our deepest condolences to the families and friends of those tragically lost, and we pray for the speedy recovery of the wounded.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 05:57 AM   #1617
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 20,880
"We interrupt the Impeachment proceedings with news of a school shooting" is the most "America in 2019" thing to ever happen.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM   #1618
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,365
Originally Posted by Daily Mail
Police have not yet been able to determine a motive for the shooting.

At a press conference on Friday, LA County Sheriff Alex Villanueva said: 'We did not find any manifesto, any diary that spelled it out, any suicide note or any writings which will clearly identify his motive behind this assault.'

He did say that authorities had recovered an additional six weapons in the suspect's home, on top of guns that were registered to his late father, and the rifle he used in the attack.

Police have not yet revealed whether that gun was registered or not. It is being examined now in a crime lab...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ds-shot-5.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 05:59 PM   #1619
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 24,343
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Originally Posted by Daily Mail
Police have not yet been able to determine a motive for the shooting.

At a press conference on Friday, LA County Sheriff Alex Villanueva said: 'We did not find any manifesto, any diary that spelled it out, any suicide note or any writings which will clearly identify his motive behind this assault.'

He did say that authorities had recovered an additional six weapons in the suspect's home, on top of guns that were registered to his late father, and the rifle he used in the attack.

Police have not yet revealed whether that gun was registered or not. It is being examined now in a crime lab...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ds-shot-5.html

Rifle? All the accounts I've seen have said it was a .45 caliber pistol. Apparently a semi-automatic since they've said that the surveillance tapes show he had to clear a jam in the action once while he was shooting.

From CNN

"The shooting at Saugus High School took 16 seconds from start to finish, Capt. Kent Wegener said during a press conference Thursday.

The shooter walked into the school's quad area Thursday morning carrying a backpack. He retrieved a .45-caliber pistol without saying a word and fired one round, Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva said.

After shooting one student, he cleared a jam on the weapon and fired an additional four rounds at others, then himself."
I guess the Daily Mail has their own sources.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."

Last edited by quadraginta; Yesterday at 06:00 PM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM   #1620
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,365
CNN has breaking news that the shooter has died.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 06:49 PM   #1621
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 23,365
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Rifle? All the accounts I've seen have said it was a .45 caliber pistol... I guess the Daily Mail has their own sources.
I just looked and don't see anyone saying rifle other than DM. I wasn't paying attention to that when I posted the quote. I was focused on the lack of apparent motive and no writings found and that the kid seemed to have a gun collection.

In spite of their reputation, I have generally found that the DM is quick to make corrections on things like this.

Paddock also had a gun collection and no motive or writings could be found. It was also murder/suicide.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:05 PM   #1622
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17,006
Even in California you still don't have to register ALL guns. Only at transfer. If you bought guns years ago, you don't have to umm "back register" them. Different types, and different kinds of transfers, required registration at different years.

Why not? 2A. How would any penalty for ownership of an unregistered, legally purchased weapon, NOT be an infringement? Don't register, they confiscate. Infringement of right to keep. Even federal machine gun laws are NOT a tax on the weapon, they are a tax on the transfer. They even call it a "Transfer tax".

So, "unregistered" weapon? Meaningless adjective to fluff up the story.
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:15 PM   #1623
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17,006
But mass murders are so rare any increase in rate has such a poor P factor that the stat is meaningless.

What makes it look so bad is the media coverage and social media. Latest "3 dead in murder-suicide", and we get posters from around the world. But he crime has no effect on me, at only 500 miles away.

But are we discussing deaths from inner city violence, with a hundred time as many deaths as from Mass Shootings?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:32 PM   #1624
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,831
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But mass murders are so rare any increase in rate has such a poor P factor that the stat is meaningless.

What makes it look so bad is the media coverage and social media. Latest "3 dead in murder-suicide", and we get posters from around the world. But he crime has no effect on me, at only 500 miles away.

But are we discussing deaths from inner city violence, with a hundred time as many deaths as from Mass Shootings?
Understood. You are indifferent to mass murder with guns. That indifference, multiplied by 100 million or so, is a big part of the reason why mass murders are such a regular occurrence in the USA.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:34 PM   #1625
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
 
casebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17,006
My biggest take away form Civics class was " Politicians want to keep the public scared so they will vote for me to lead them to safety." Disease scares don't help, the politics cant get votes to legislate against flu, ebola, West Nile. They can get votes by legislating against guns. Same way they used to legislate against homosexuality (conservative christian votes) or people of color ( racist votes) .

As a gun owner I don't believe the pols want to disarm the American public preparatory to a dictatorship. They just want votes so they can keep their graft-laden jobs.

Flip side: Groups like the NRA, ACLU, NOW also want to keep their constituency scared. That is when the donations come rolling in. It's all about the Benjamins.

Librul Media is the same too. Shock and grief sells papers. Even if they aren't in print. If it bleeds, it leads.

Yup, we are ALL being manipulated. I pissed off my anti to gun neighbor. We were having a sane discussion about guns. I mentioned that we were all being manipulated, me by the NRA and the GOP, him by the Democrats. He got soo mad all of a sudden. I thought he was going to hit me. I asked him WTF, he yelled "I'm not manipulated". Methinks he doth protest too much. He didn't like the truth. Do you?
__________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Medium minds discuss events.
Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.
casebro is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 07:52 PM   #1626
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,831
Originally Posted by casebro View Post
My biggest take away form Civics class was " Politicians want to keep the public scared so they will vote for me to lead them to safety." Disease scares don't help, the politics cant get votes to legislate against flu, ebola, West Nile. They can get votes by legislating against guns. Same way they used to legislate against homosexuality (conservative christian votes) or people of color ( racist votes) .

As a gun owner I don't believe the pols want to disarm the American public preparatory to a dictatorship. They just want votes so they can keep their graft-laden jobs.

Flip side: Groups like the NRA, ACLU, NOW also want to keep their constituency scared. That is when the donations come rolling in. It's all about the Benjamins.

Librul Media is the same too. Shock and grief sells papers. Even if they aren't in print. If it bleeds, it leads.

Yup, we are ALL being manipulated. I pissed off my anti to gun neighbor. We were having a sane discussion about guns. I mentioned that we were all being manipulated, me by the NRA and the GOP, him by the Democrats. He got soo mad all of a sudden. I thought he was going to hit me. I asked him WTF, he yelled "I'm not manipulated". Methinks he doth protest too much. He didn't like the truth. Do you?
I can see that in the USA where there are only two political parties and the politics is so polarized. I happen to live in a country where there are more choices on the political spectrum and no I will not complain.Canadian political party has a policy of making guns easier to obtain. This unified view seems to have the effect of keeping mass shootings to a minimum. It may be that Canadians are manipulated into viewing few mass shootings as a good thing
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:48 AM   #1627
Planigale
Illuminator
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,245
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I can see that in the USA where there are only two political parties and the politics is so polarized. I happen to live in a country where there are more choices on the political spectrum and no I will not complain.Canadian political party has a policy of making guns easier to obtain. This unified view seems to have the effect of keeping mass shootings to a minimum. It may be that Canadians are manipulated into viewing few mass shootings as a good thing
I do not understand this sentence; is a word missing?
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 05:26 AM   #1628
Matthew Best
Philosopher
 
Matthew Best's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Leicester Square, London
Posts: 6,989
Perhaps there should be a "No" at the start of that sentence?
Matthew Best is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 11:33 AM   #1629
Steve
Philosopher
 
Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,831
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
I do not understand this sentence; is a word missing?
Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Perhaps there should be a "No" at the start of that sentence?
You got it Matthew Best. The sentence should have started with “No”.
__________________
Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"
Steve is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 12:26 PM   #1630
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,353
Just saw a story saying the gun used in the latest school shooting may have been a "ghost gun", assembled from parts purchased over the internet and bearing no serial numbers.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 01:08 PM   #1631
wasapi
Philosopher
 
wasapi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,422
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Just saw a story saying the gun used in the latest school shooting may have been a "ghost gun", assembled from parts purchased over the internet and bearing no serial numbers.
From reading earlier, I gathered the same information. What is curious about this is, from what I've read, is that the kid did not fit the profile. Friendly, social, had a girlfriend. I will be interested in both the autopsy results, as well as hearing more from people he was close to.

The autopsy results on his brain.
__________________
Julia
wasapi is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:52 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.