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Old 11th October 2019, 05:33 PM   #81
mgidm86
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I got electricity again.

As someone living in the middle of all this let me tell you a bit about why I hate PG&E so much. For years we've been telling them to clear away trees from the power lines. We'd complain, they'd set up a town hall, we would voice our opinion that trees near power lines is a bad idea, they would say they have no money to do anything about it because of (insert other problem like paying for San Bruno gas explosion) and basically tell us they would get to it eventually one day when they have more resources.

In the meantime they would stream their meetings where they give out million dollar bonuses to executives on Youtube.

Then they almost burn down Santa Rosa. Then they really do burn down Paradise. Suddenly they are gung ho to try and cut down vegetation and remove trees. In fact they've been hiring companies from as far away as Montana to come in and do it but too little too late. It is estimated it will be three to five years before they get all the power lines clear.

Oh but they sure do pay back the shareholders.

Look, I'm not saying they're evil just that a comic book supervillain could learn lessons from them on how to screw over large populations of people.

All true.

Listen to the people who are affected by this - PG&E and the California legislators have been warned, pleaded with and nothing gets done. Oh except climate change gets blamed. Ya we're gonna make the climate pay for all of this and fix it too.

There are very few power lines where I live by the way - they are all underground. Hmm there's a solution for a lot of this. Expensive but hey, we pay astronomical rates! Use some of it! No trees no forest where I live. And no wind.

But off the power went anyways. Every business on our side of town - including my parents cabinet shop - could not operate that day.

We lost money. The employees of these businesses in town all lost money. Many probably live check to check.

My step-Dad slept in the camper with the generator so he could run his C-Pap machine so he wouldn't, you know, die in his sleep. Lucky they have one. Lucky he was awake when it went off because they kept changing the time over and over so nobody knew what was going to happen or when.

It could have been off for days - we had no clue.

This can not go on. I'm so frustrated with this state. And this PG&E mess is just one symptom of how sick this state really is.
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Old 11th October 2019, 06:20 PM   #82
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Up until a recent court case, "It was the wind, not the wires".

Not just affecting PG&E either. SDG&E has the same problem. Though this year has been exceptionally mild, and only very low level Santa Anas. No Red Flag closures yet.
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Old 12th October 2019, 12:11 PM   #83
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So how many were actually without juice, and for how long?
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Old 12th October 2019, 07:17 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
It's safe to assume that 99.99% of situations that require electricity to literally sustain life have a backup generator. But the .01% that don't will have someone counting the minutes until power is back on.

And here is one, kind of:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...minutes-of-pge


As far as I can tell this happened because there was a (multiple?) huge delay in when the power was to be off.

Add that to the fact that his backup was a manual switchover, not automatic.

So the old man gave up waiting for the outage. Went to sleep. When he woke up without oxygen he tried, unsuccessfully, to transfer to the battery one.
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Old 12th October 2019, 07:45 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
So how many were actually without juice, and for how long?

About 2 million people/customers/whatever. I read it a few days ago and I'm too tired to find it. South Bay, North Bay, Central valley, foothills.

My house was without power for less than 24 hours. But we were told it could be as long as 5 days and there was no real schedule. We had no idea how long it would be. Even the day they shut it off we kept hearing different things until it actually went off. And the business is on the property too.

Plus the whole north side of the town was closed all day and night. Lot of businesses.

I think a lot of people are going several days without it. We are not in one of the danger areas but the power had to be shut off anyways because of how it's all built. They had to shut off ours to shut off the other ones. They said it may take days to get it all back on, but who knows it may all be back on already.

So the plan, last I heard, is to make it so not so many areas need to be shut off just to protect an isolated section. In other words, this is the new normal.

We have too many people for our electrical grid, for our water, our schools, our roads, and we just keep encouraging more to pour in. We are a sanctuary state as well as the national leader in attracting homeless from all over the country (thanks SF).

This is why I complain so much about the border and illegals. It is a real problem here. We actually do not have room, if you count the failing electrical grid and water supply. But WTF let's be a sanctuary state, that'll help!

Gov. Newsom is now passing laws that even Jerry Brown vetoed - some gun control stuff, water "regulations" (in other words letting private interests profit from selling water down south. Brown was into that too though.)

Our government is corrupt. One day I will start a thread about how California tricked people into not repealing a gas tax. Look up Proposition 6 from the latest election if you want a head start on that. Shameful. I really want to discuss that but it would take a little more research than I'm willing to go through for the ISF.

This state has been controlled by Democrats for a long time and it is the more liberal policies that cost us so much damn money and prevent us from building more dams, fixing the forests, roads, and plenty of other things.

Toads are more important than Californians, as are spotted owls, Delta Smelt, illegal aliens and people who wish to live on the streets. No they are not all Californians - many are illegals that came here with nothing and - surprise! - still have nothing. I mean where do we think they are going to live when they get here? Many others are homeless who relocated to Cali.

And before anyone mentions Prop 13, look up who was governor back in 1978 when that all started. That's right...Jerry Brown. Californians are so stupid they voted him in again decades later.

I may as well live in Hawaii it costs about the same now.

ETA: Sorry for the rant but I don't think any of it is off topic. It's a mess here. It's frustrating hearing people say, "Oh Cali has such a budget surplus" (we don't) "Oh Cali is paradise" (not anymore) and "Oh California is a model for other states". Maybe they don't say that anymore.

Ya, you want Gavin Newsom for President? He used to be mayor of San Francisco. Follow the trail of feces this man leaves in his wake. We are f'd.
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Old 12th October 2019, 08:36 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
And here is one, kind of:

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...minutes-of-pge

As far as I can tell this happened because there was a (multiple?) huge delay in when the power was to be off.

Add that to the fact that his backup was a manual switchover, not automatic.

So the old man gave up waiting for the outage. Went to sleep. When he woke up without oxygen he tried, unsuccessfully, to transfer to the battery one.
This is terrible, but I'm trying to picture what happened. He woke up gasping for air, and tried to start another gadget to save himself? Seems like the original gadget could have been designed with some kind of alarm that would go off the instant power stopped, and with some kind of automatic short-term battery, even good for just 30 minutes, that would give him time to move to that backup.

More details in the local story:
https://fox40.com/2019/10/11/pollock...-pge-shut-off/
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Old 12th October 2019, 08:41 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
.....
And before anyone mentions Prop 13, look up who was governor back in 1978 when that all started. That's right...Jerry Brown. Californians are so stupid they voted him in again decades later.
.....
Just curious: Did Brown actually support it? Did he promote it? It was voted in by a majority of Californians, and in 40+ years they have not voted to overturn it. I suspect it's not all Brown's fault.
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Old 12th October 2019, 09:01 PM   #88
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Arrow

Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
When winds are at hurricane force the undergrowth doesn't matter. People in Australia have died from grass fires on days of extreme fire conditions. The grass fires are intense enough to kill, the fires explode from tree to tree.
A fire that spreads from tree to tree is not a grass fire.
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Old 12th October 2019, 09:03 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
I lived in California for a little over one year with my father who was a native son. I had lived most of my life in Georgia in Atlanta. This was in 1979. I could sense negativity all around. Not sure what it was but I felt it. Perhaps it was a small earthquake or a tad of civil unease but I had had enough. I went back to Georgia and never returned except for a yearly visit to my Dad and my Aunt. They both died and I never returned.
What, exactly, does this have to do with either the power grid or wild fires?
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Old 12th October 2019, 11:51 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
What, exactly, does this have to do with either the power grid or wild fires?
Wait till he gets to the part about them wearing onions on their belts it'll become clearer to you then.
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Old 13th October 2019, 12:04 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post

My step-Dad slept in the camper with the generator so he could run his C-Pap machine so he wouldn't, you know, die in his sleep. Lucky they have one. Lucky he was awake when it went off because they kept changing the time over and over so nobody knew what was going to happen or when.
We will hear about deaths caused by this black out. Not everyone has the resources of your stepfather, and PG&E will get raked over the coals for these deaths, especially deaths of low income people who can't afford to insure their survival.
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Old 13th October 2019, 10:31 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Wait till he gets to the part about them wearing onions on their belts it'll become clearer to you then.
Sounds fascinating. I will check back here for the full story. (I wonder what kind of onions).
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Old 13th October 2019, 08:22 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just curious: Did Brown actually support it? Did he promote it? It was voted in by a majority of Californians, and in 40+ years they have not voted to overturn it. I suspect it's not all Brown's fault.

I just mentioned this because someone asked "what about prop 13" in some other thread. I don't remember the topic. I shouldn't have mentioned it.

Turns out Brown did not support it, but since my idiot California neighbors re-elected him what 35 years later and he did nothing to address the loopholes that he himself complained about - well he still didn't support it then. I was wrong.
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Old 13th October 2019, 08:25 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Nosi View Post
We will hear about deaths caused by this black out. Not everyone has the resources of your stepfather, and PG&E will get raked over the coals for these deaths, especially deaths of low income people who can't afford to insure their survival.

I read of a death of a man who needed oxygen at home. They didn't shut off the power at the time they said they would, and they kept changing the time, so he fell asleep thinking he was safe. He died when they actually did shut it off in his sleep.

I don't know why his equipment required power.

Oh ya, we had no water either because we have a well. If it were my house I'd have a manual pump of some kind. My parents, not so much
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Old 14th October 2019, 10:08 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just curious: Did Brown actually support it? Did he promote it? It was voted in by a majority of Californians, and in 40+ years they have not voted to overturn it. I suspect it's not all Brown's fault.
The main spark was rising property values, at least some of which was due to inflation, but a lot of which was the increased demand for homes in California. In the 1970s home prices skyrocketed in California and so did real estate taxes. Fine for homeowners who considered themselves investors, but not so good for seniors on a fixed income, who might find themselves priced out of their supposedly bought and paid for home.
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Old 24th October 2019, 08:45 PM   #96
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TV reports on the southern California wildfires show fires sweeping up hills toward residential areas. Question: Everybody knows this is how fires spread, or at least one way. Have they ever tried to conduct controlled burns on these hillsides in advance so there wouldn't be fuel so close to the houses? A band of charred earth a couple hundred feet wide wouldn't be very appealing to look at, but it would be better than blocks of burned-out homes.
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Old 24th October 2019, 11:05 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
TV reports on the southern California wildfires show fires sweeping up hills toward residential areas. Question: Everybody knows this is how fires spread, or at least one way. Have they ever tried to conduct controlled burns on these hillsides in advance so there wouldn't be fuel so close to the houses? A band of charred earth a couple hundred feet wide wouldn't be very appealing to look at, but it would be better than blocks of burned-out homes.

We had that happen near us in 2017 in Anaheim Hills, on a hot windy October day... just like today. Looking at the satellite at the time, it wasn't hard to spot the houses in the riskiest location from a fire moving southwest (as they are prone to do in Santa Ana wind conditions.) This image is post-fire with an x on each empty lot.

Canyon Fire by Sher Keu, on Flickr

"By 1:30 p.m., at least four homes appeared to have burned on the same street in the area of Canyon Heights Drive, video from the scene showed. The homes appeared to be complete losses." - KTLA
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Old 24th October 2019, 11:18 PM   #98
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Backburning to get rid of leaf litter and debris is a common fire-prevention strategy in Australia, because Australia is covered with eucalyptus, which drops huge quantities of highly flammable material that burns readily and spreads fire quickly. If the trees in California don't drop as much litter, this might not be an optimum strategy.
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Old 25th October 2019, 12:32 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
TV reports on the southern California wildfires show fires sweeping up hills toward residential areas. Question: Everybody knows this is how fires spread, or at least one way. Have they ever tried to conduct controlled burns on these hillsides in advance so there wouldn't be fuel so close to the houses? A band of charred earth a couple hundred feet wide wouldn't be very appealing to look at, but it would be better than blocks of burned-out homes.
Do you know how many hills there are?
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Old 25th October 2019, 09:41 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Do you know how many hills there are?
Seven? I didn't really mean firefighters should set every hillside ablaze. But when a fire is underway and it's direction is known, I would think getting ahead of the blaze and eliminating fuel would be a legitimate tactic.
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Old 25th October 2019, 09:56 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Backburning to get rid of leaf litter and debris is a common fire-prevention strategy in Australia, because Australia is covered with eucalyptus, which drops huge quantities of highly flammable material that burns readily and spreads fire quickly. If the trees in California don't drop as much litter, this might not be an optimum strategy.
Some parts of california have beautiful eucalyptus trees. But since they are transplants I don't think they have forests.

Here is a photo of some I remember. I didn't take the photo, but I do recommend the patio if you eat there.
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Old 25th October 2019, 10:42 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
TV reports on the southern California wildfires show fires sweeping up hills toward residential areas. Question: Everybody knows this is how fires spread, or at least one way. Have they ever tried to conduct controlled burns on these hillsides in advance so there wouldn't be fuel so close to the houses? A band of charred earth a couple hundred feet wide wouldn't be very appealing to look at, but it would be better than blocks of burned-out homes.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Backburning to get rid of leaf litter and debris is a common fire-prevention strategy in Australia, because Australia is covered with eucalyptus, which drops huge quantities of highly flammable material that burns readily and spreads fire quickly. If the trees in California don't drop as much litter, this might not be an optimum strategy.
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Seven? I didn't really mean firefighters should set every hillside ablaze. But when a fire is underway and it's direction is known, I would think getting ahead of the blaze and eliminating fuel would be a legitimate tactic.
Back burning and burnout operations are a standard thing in American firefighting. Has been that way for decades.

In California, the embers really get thrown by the wind. Huge ten-lane Interstate Highways get breached even when fully staffed with fire engines and crews. The risk in those conditions is that the back-burning itself become uncontrollable within moments of it being set. Keep in mind, most of these fires do most of the damage on the first day or two. It is rare for a fire in CA to keep spreading into developed areas for more than a day or two, as that state has a huge wildland firefighting apparatus. A very expensive firefighting apparatus, but good at dealing with fires after they have started (less so about preventing them, but that's as much of a political and social issue as technical).

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Old 25th October 2019, 11:00 AM   #103
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We were told today that we will be without power for at least the weekend. The fires are still 30 miles away, but it is difficult being outside because of the intense smell of smoke in the air, brought by high winds, and higher winds expected.
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Old 25th October 2019, 05:53 PM   #104
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I guy whose Discord I'm on lives in the affected area of California. He's reporting people firing guns at PG&E trucks.
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Old 25th October 2019, 07:41 PM   #105
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A fairly comprehensive article:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/ene...-insurance-pge

This is not going to be fixed quickly...
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Old 26th October 2019, 11:29 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
A fairly comprehensive article:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/ene...-insurance-pge

This is not going to be fixed quickly...

Thanks for that, I'm still reading it. We are doomed. And if it doesn't rain it will go on all year. It's almost November now.

I heard my area may get shut off so I looked it up. This was the result when I typed in my address:

Quote:
STATUS
October 25, 2019 6:00 PM: Due to gusty winds and dry conditions, combined with a heightened fire risk, PG&E may need to turn off power for public safety at this address in the next 24 hours. As we continue to monitor conditions, please prepare for outages that could last longer than 48 hours. By providing your specific address information in this tool, you are getting a more accurate view than PSPS area map. Get the latest information on this event at pge.com/pspsupdates
Of course there is practically zero wind here. I'm 15 miles south of downtown San Jose. I guess our electricity is "in the way" of shutting off other regions. Ours gets shut off with it, otherwise it makes no sense here.

So far that quoted blurb above is the best info available about a possible power shutoff for me. Note that it says Oct 25 so I guess I have until 6:00 today to find out.

Cities:
Coyote, Cupertino, Gilroy, Los Altos, Los Altos Hills, Los Gatos, Monte Sereno, Morgan Hill, Redwood Estates, San Jose, San Martin

Customers to be affected:
27,093

Medical Baseline customers:
823

That's just my county. Looks like between a dozen and 20 counties affected - I'm too tired to scroll and count them. It's unnerving driving home late at night and seeing half of your city/town completely dark. The south half is on, the north side is 100% off, including all surrounding areas.

Rates here are already insane. Every increase is major - I'm paying about double what I did 7 years ago per Kw/hr.

I'm sure lawsuits will be filed (or have been), insurance claims will be made, fixes will begin - and rates will climb even faster because of it. There's no getting around it.

I'm looking forward to leaving this state. Moving is a little scary for me but things like this validate that decision.
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Old 26th October 2019, 11:55 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
A fairly comprehensive article:

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/ene...-insurance-pge

This is not going to be fixed quickly...

Thanks for that. It is very informative and refreshingly well written.

I heard my area may get shut off so I looked it up. This was the result when I typed in my address:

Quote:
STATUS
October 25, 2019 6:00 PM: Due to gusty winds and dry conditions, combined with a heightened fire risk, PG&E may need to turn off power for public safety at this address in the next 24 hours. As we continue to monitor conditions, please prepare for outages that could last longer than 48 hours. By providing your specific address information in this tool, you are getting a more accurate view than PSPS area map. Get the latest information on this event at pge.com/pspsupdates
Of course there is practically zero wind here. I'm 15 miles south of downtown San Jose. I guess our electricity is "in the way" of shutting off other regions. Ours gets shut off with it, otherwise it makes no sense here.

So far that quoted blurb above is the best info available about a possible power shutoff for me. Note that it says Oct 25 so I guess I have until 6:00 today to find out.

Cities:
Coyote, Cupertino, Gilroy, Los Altos, Los Altos Hills, Los Gatos, Monte Sereno, Morgan Hill, Redwood Estates, San Jose, San Martin

Customers to be affected:
27,093

Medical Baseline customers:
823

That's just my county. Looks like between a dozen and 20 counties affected - I'm too tired to scroll and count them. It's unnerving driving home late at night and seeing half of your city/town completely dark. The south half is on, the north side is 100% off, including all surrounding areas.

Rates here are already insane. Every increase is major - I'm paying about double what I did 7 years ago per Kw/hr.

I'm sure lawsuits will be filed (or have been), insurance claims will be made, fixes will begin - and rates will climb even faster because of it. There's no getting around it.

I'm looking forward to leaving this state. Moving is a little scary for me but things like this validate that decision.
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Old 26th October 2019, 03:40 PM   #108
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We were notified that we must prepare for evacuation. Though the fire is not that close, high, unpredictable winds are due.
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Old 26th October 2019, 08:16 PM   #109
mgidm86
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
We were notified that we must prepare for evacuation. Though the fire is not that close, high, unpredictable winds are due.

I'm so sorry to hear that. This has been a super bad day for me, unrelated to PG&E, and it's hard to keep my chin up. Don't let it get to you no matter how hard it seems to want to, whatever "it" may be. I'm trying to take my own advice too.

My power is still on.

Just checked, I think it's going to be shut off soon. Good! I hear Mariachi music from over half a mile away, as I do every Saturday night. Getting tired of it. I don't care if it's my favorite band, It's stupid-loud and bad. I can hear it as if it's in my face.
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Old 27th October 2019, 11:55 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
We were notified that we must prepare for evacuation. Though the fire is not that close, high, unpredictable winds are due.
Yeah, we evacuated last night. i'm guessing you have evacuated by now.
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Old 27th October 2019, 01:01 PM   #111
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Hoping for the best for all you Calfornians. All the leaves here are brown (all the leaves are brown), and the sky is gray (and the sky is gray), and it's pouring rain, so I'm California dreamin' of you having electricity and your houses not burning down.
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Old 27th October 2019, 02:12 PM   #112
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At 4am, we were evacuated. I drove a usually 2 and a half hour drive into over a 7 hour, hellish one from everyone fleeing to the safety of my sons home.

I have never seen wind like this, ever.
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Old 27th October 2019, 10:19 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
We were notified that we must prepare for evacuation. Though the fire is not that close, high, unpredictable winds are due.
Question: Is "mandatory" evacuation really just a strong recommendation, or they're warning you that they won't help you if you stay, or can you actually be arrested, or what?
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Old 27th October 2019, 10:20 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Question: Is "mandatory" evacuation really just a strong recommendation, or they're warning you that they won't help you if you stay, or can you actually be arrested, or what?
People who ignore mandatory evacuation orders usually end up dead.
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Old 28th October 2019, 12:03 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
People who ignore mandatory evacuation orders usually end up dead.
Maybe, maybe not. The evacuation area in any disaster usually is larger than the area ultimately hit. The question is whether refusing to go is a crime.
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Old 28th October 2019, 01:42 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Maybe, maybe not. The evacuation area in any disaster usually is larger than the area ultimately hit. The question is whether refusing to go is a crime.
It's mandatory because you'll die if you don't leave.
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Old 28th October 2019, 03:11 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
At 4am, we were evacuated. I drove a usually 2 and a half hour drive into over a 7 hour, hellish one from everyone fleeing to the safety of my sons home.



I have never seen wind like this, ever.
That's the problem. With winds like that predicting what can happen with a fire storm is impossible.
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Old 28th October 2019, 03:30 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
We were told today that we will be without power for at least the weekend. The fires are still 30 miles away, but it is difficult being outside because of the intense smell of smoke in the air, brought by high winds, and higher winds expected.
Remember to get your very own personalized dust mask so you don't breath in the crap which will dissolve your lungs.
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Old 28th October 2019, 10:48 AM   #119
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After what happened to Paradise, I cannot imagine why anyone would ignore an emergency evacuation order.

Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
At 4am, we were evacuated. I drove a usually 2 and a half hour drive into over a 7 hour, hellish one from everyone fleeing to the safety of my sons home.

I have never seen wind like this, ever.
Did your son have enough room for all those people?

Glad you're safe Was a pi.

That fire is making it's own wind.
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Old 28th October 2019, 10:59 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Happy that ther in Sacramento I get my power from SMUD (Sacramento Municpal Utility District).
Indeed. All of PG&E's utility services should be taken over by the state or other municipality.
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