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Old 29th October 2019, 03:07 AM   #161
Roboramma
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
No, your request received no reply because I missed it in the avalanche of posts attacking me for stuff I've said in other threads.
That's entirely fair and I apologise for my impatience. There was no actual need to reply either, but I do appreciate it. I over reacted to what seemed like being ignored in a thread about ignoring reactionaries.

Quote:
Answer to your question:

This isn't a scientific report. It's an editorial. The method I used was my eyes and ears and years of experience.
I think that's also somewhat fair. If we all have the same prior starting point, then we can have a discussion that doesn't have to go over the ground of establishing that prior starting point.

However, while I think there are are few posters who fit your description, my own "eyes and ears and years of experience" lead me to a different conclusion (that is, that they are only a few outliers). That's not necessarily surprising since we have different experiences. I generally don't even read the politics forums, and only look in social events & current events when I'm bored.

Given those differing viewpoints about the factual matter that forms the foundation of this discussion, I'm going to bow out of this thread.

But, again, I do appreciate the response.
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:33 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
This reminds me of the ignore attitude: White House urges all federal agencies to cancel Washington Post and New York Times subscriptions (CNN, Oct. 25, 2019)

But Trump prefers to be in denial about any critical voice, so it's not a big surprise that he behaves in this way. He is a mental midget, which I don't think that you are.

There are many ways of tackling annoying right-wing extremists. Let me recommend one that I also sometimes use when I'm dealing with incorrigible woos: Instead of writing to them, answering to their posts, write about them, thus making it obvious that you aren't having any kind of conversation with them. You are having one with other people about them.


This is pretty much exactly what I've been saying. Perhaps I just explained it poorly.
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:48 AM   #163
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And it works!
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post12872963
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post12872968
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Old 29th October 2019, 03:50 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Are you kidding me? This is 200 proof blind loyalty, emphasis on blind. Perhaps there's a poster you trust who doesn't use the ignore feature who can confirm the facts for you. There's not even a borderline instance. Take note of kellyb's observations upthread.

What a sorry joke.
Nah, it's more a case of me not being under any kind of obligation to verify another poster's assertion, and my experiences in general aligning with Luchdog's perception.
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Old 29th October 2019, 04:17 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nah, it's more a case of me not being under any kind of obligation to verify another poster's assertion, and my experiences in general aligning with Luchdog's perception.
Everyone (literally everyone, myself included) needs to be aware of the potential for this, though. Nobody is immune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_perception

Quote:
Selective perception is the process by which individuals perceive what they want to in media messages while ignoring opposing viewpoints. It is a broad term to identify the behavior all people exhibit to tend to "see things" based on their particular frame of reference. It also describes how we categorize and interpret sensory information in a way that favors one category or interpretation over another. In other words, selective perception is a form of bias because we interpret information in a way that is congruent with our existing values and beliefs.
Quote:
In one classic study on this subject related to the hostile media effect (which is itself an example of selective perception), viewers watched a filmstrip of a particularly violent Princeton-Dartmouth American football game. Princeton viewers reported seeing nearly twice as many rule infractions committed by the Dartmouth team than did Dartmouth viewers. One Dartmouth alumnus did not see any infractions committed by the Dartmouth side and erroneously assumed he had been sent only part of the film, sending word requesting the rest.
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Old 29th October 2019, 04:25 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Everyone (literally everyone, myself included) needs to be aware of the potential for this, though. Nobody is immune.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_perception
Sure. Are you asserting that I am suffering from selective perception when I see plenty of reactonaries posting on these forums? How would that selective perception work?
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Old 29th October 2019, 04:35 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Sure. Are you asserting that I am suffering from selective perception when I see plenty of reactonaries posting on these forums? How would that selective perception work?
I was really thinking about luchog's perception of the behavior of people in this thread, vs. mine and varwoche's.

Somewhere between one and three of us must be experiencing a fair bit of selective perception, here in this thread.

I've seen "a lot" of people I'd consider "reactionaries" (of some sort) posting in the forums over the years, too, kind of waxing and waning in prevalence, and depending on the most popular topics of the time period.

When Atheism plus was a thing, every rightwing butthole on the internet who self-IDs as a"skeptic" seemed to swarm here. Threads about the men's rights movement seems to draw that sort out of the woodwork, too. And it seems like it only takes a smallish increase in those extreme posters posting, before other members who are usually reasonable kind of have their dark side brought out, and their posts become worse.

Currently I don't see much of that stuff, though.
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Last edited by kellyb; 29th October 2019 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 29th October 2019, 04:51 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
When Atheism plus was a thing, every rightwing butthole on the internet who self-IDs as a"skeptic" seemed to swarm here.

I had to look up Atheism+. I guess I wasn't very active at the time. Why is it not at thing anymore? When I look at Rational Wiki's definition, I like it!

Quote:
Threads about the men's rights movement seems to draw that sort out of the woodwork, too. And it seems like it only takes a smallish increase in those extreme posters posting, before other members who are usually reasonable kind of have their dark side brought out, and their posts become worse.

Currently I don't see much of that stuff, though.

Well, the most extreme proponent of White Male Supremacy has been suspended ...
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Old 29th October 2019, 05:05 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I was really thinking about luchog's perception of the behavior of people in this thread, vs. mine and varwoche's.

Somewhere between one and three of us must be experiencing a fair bit of selective perception, here in this thread.

I've seen "a lot" of people I'd consider "reactionaries" (of some sort) posting in the forums over the years, too, kind of waxing and waning in prevalence, and depending on the most popular topics of the time period.

When Atheism plus was a thing, every rightwing butthole on the internet who self-IDs as a"skeptic" seemed to swarm here. Threads about the men's rights movement seems to draw that sort out of the woodwork, too. And it seems like it only takes a smallish increase in those extreme posters posting, before other members who are usually reasonable kind of have their dark side brought out, and their posts become worse.

Currently I don't see much of that stuff, though.
I have seen the same things, but I cannot agree with the last sentence. Currently, we see almost exclusively that stuff from our right wing posters.
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Old 29th October 2019, 05:22 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I have seen the same things, but I cannot agree with the last sentence. Currently, we see almost exclusively that stuff from our right wing posters.
If you're talking about people who are reliably rightwing in a "pretty much any post they make will be awful" sense, yes. (I'd say it's way less than 10% of active forum members who are like that.)

Some posters with a history of saying goofy-terrible rightwing stuff sometimes seem to have shifted to being less terrible over the past year or two, though. From my perspective.

eta:
It's hard to have this conversation without being able to name names. Heh.
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Old 29th October 2019, 05:29 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I had to look up Atheism+. I guess I wasn't very active at the time. Why is it not at thing anymore? When I look at Rational Wiki's definition, I like it!
The guy who ran the forum was only 20 years old and had no experience with...the internet, basically.

The forum and "movement culture" turned into an extreme version of this, like what's described below times 10,000:
https://www.metafilter.com/122432/pr...allout-culture
Quote:
on liberal bullying: "...what's the biggest challenge we deal with every day? The challenge that has my editors second-guessing every post and quaking in fear, just waiting for the awfulness to begin? It's attacks from our fellow progressives... Increasingly, I've started recognizing this kind of behavior for what it is: privilege-checking as a form of internet sport. It's a kind of trolling, with all the politics I agree with, but motivations and execution that turns my stomach. It's well-intended (SO well-intended), but when the motivations seem to be less about opening dialogue about the issues, and more about performance, righteousness, and intolerance for those who don't agree with you… well, I'm not on-board."
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Last edited by kellyb; 29th October 2019 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 29th October 2019, 05:35 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
If you're talking about people who are reliably rightwing in a "pretty much any post they make will be awful" sense, yes. (I'd say it's way less than 10% of active forum members who are like that.)

Some posters with a history of saying goofy-terrible rightwing stuff sometimes seem to have shifted to being less terrible over the past year or two, though. From my perspective.

eta:
It's hard to have this conversation without being able to name names. Heh.
I agree with your characterization, and possibly even the amount of people, although if we are to take into account pseudo-centrists and other various useful idiots I'd say the amount is higher. Where I fundamentally disagree with you is your description of the trajectory. In my experience, things have gotten substantially worse over the past few years. While before, I could have a conversation with someone who described him/herself as conservative and actually made arguments from a conservative point of view, that is all but impossible anymore, as all such posters have either vanished or adopted a reactionary stance.
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Old 29th October 2019, 05:57 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I agree with your characterization, and possibly even the amount of people, although if we are to take into account pseudo-centrists and other various useful idiots I'd say the amount is higher. Where I fundamentally disagree with you is your description of the trajectory. In my experience, things have gotten substantially worse over the past few years. While before, I could have a conversation with someone who described him/herself as conservative and actually made arguments from a conservative point of view, that is all but impossible anymore, as all such posters have either vanished or adopted a reactionary stance.
How do you define "pseudo-centrist"? How are they different from actual centrists? I'm not sure what sort of member you're referring to as a "useful idiot" here, either.

I've seen the worst of the reactionaries get banned eventually. Some new one always seems to come along and take their place, though. At any given time there's usually about 3 or 4 active members who are legit "reactionaries", from my perspective.

In this thread, we've heard from one of them, and from a few who are...really sketchy/shady (as in, you never know if you're going to hear something terrible in their post or not), in my view.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:33 AM   #174
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I think some of those posters who appear to be reactionaries aren't actually so: they're online contrarians who simply argue against whatever they perceive to be the prevailing common view. At this point in time that means they argue against liberalism (or "progressivism" as it's being --oddly-- characterized lately). But if the majority here were hard rightists I'm certain several of these same posters who post so rightly today would shift hard left and argue the opposite.

For a select few, it's personal and targeted on specific individuals. You can see their automatic contrarianism in action: they won't post in a thread until their personal foe does, and then they'll post just to argue against whatever that person said. Even if doing so utterly reverses what they themselves have posted in other threads. The point is to be contrary, there is no consistent underlying system. If you pay attention to who posts after whom you can see patterns.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:36 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
How do you define "pseudo-centrist"? How are they different from actual centrists? I'm not sure what sort of member you're referring to as a "useful idiot" here, either.
Like everything else in this discussion, it's hard to define, especially while not naming names. I am talking about the people who insist that they are totally legit not for Trump yet spend their whole time defending Trump.

Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I've seen the worst of the reactionaries get banned eventually. Some new one always seems to come along and take their place, though. At any given time there's usually about 3 or 4 active members who are legit "reactionaries", from my perspective.
I'd say there are more than that.

Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
In this thread, we've heard from one of them, and from a few who are...really sketchy/shady (as in, you never know if you're going to hear something terrible in their post or not), in my view.
Mhmmm... I agree. And a few I would characterize as "useful idiots".
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:39 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I think some of those posters who appear to be reactionaries aren't actually so: they're online contrarians who simply argue against whatever they perceive to be the prevailing common view. At this point in time that means they argue against liberalism (or "progressivism" as it's being --oddly-- characterized lately). But if the majority here were hard rightists I'm certain several of these same posters who post so rightly today would shift hard left and argue the opposite.

For a select few, it's personal and targeted on specific individuals. You can see their automatic contrarianism in action: they won't post in a thread until their personal foe does, and then they'll post just to argue against whatever that person said. Even if doing so utterly reverses what they themselves have posted in other threads. The point is to be contrary, there is no consistent underlying system. If you pay attention to who posts after whom you can see patterns.
That's kind of the point, tho. They don't argue from any traditional ideology but only post to create a reaction. It's sometimes indistuingishable from normal trolling, but it's always designed to cause distress rather than to create "lulz". The aim is to spread a few odious viewpoints through over-saturation.

I don't think it's about contrarianism, but rather a need for anybody perceived as 'other' to ever be allowed to be right about anything.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:42 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Your agenda was pretty clear from your first post, so this is unsurprising. I've outlined my feelings and they're not black and white enough for you, big deal.
Your feelings aren't the problem. Endorsing blatant delusion while in the same breath posturing about skepticism is what I'm calling out. You could point out with specificity where I'm wrong about the delusion and your endorsement, but instead you post glib evasions.
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Old 29th October 2019, 06:43 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Your feelings aren't the problem. Endorsing blatant delusion while in the same breath posturing about skepticism is what I'm calling out. You could point out with specificity where I'm wrong about the delusion and your endorsement, but instead you post glib evasions.
Glib Evasions is a good band name! Or a bad Bond Girl name.
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Old 29th October 2019, 07:04 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I don't think it's about contrarianism, but rather a need for anybody perceived as 'other' to ever be allowed to be right about anything.

That's definitely a large part of the problem -- the need to continuously marginalize anyone considered to be the "other"; which is itself a very conservative viewpoint.

That's always been a part of the interactions here, for sure. Anyone who has been around long enough to remember CLarsen should also remember his ongoing and spectacular vendettas. But while the current crop of contrarians aren't quite as over-the-top, they're certain more numerous and persistent.

I think a good deal of it has to do with the fact that there are not enough woos to kick around anymore. One disturbing trend that was present early on was the need to not only debunk their nonsense, but also to further browbeat and ridicule the woos themselves. A certain faction of the board was not content to simply analyze and refute the various bits of pseudo-science, grifting, and delusion that were promulgated by various and sundry, but also felt the need to attack their characters as well. Now, to be fair, many woos did in fact start such attacks, but there was no need to respond in kind; "attack beliefs, not people" was never part of their creed, and was poorly enforced at times. For that faction, it wasn't enough that the woos were defeated, they had to be humiliated as well.

A great deal of that attitude remains; and is commonplace particularly in the politics and social issues sub-fora.
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Old 29th October 2019, 07:22 AM   #180
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A little hyperbole is fine, but this place bears no resemblance to 4chan. This place has always been a bit anachronistic in that it permitted odious views to be posted, but those thoughts can be countered with civility here. Which is nothing like the mindless hate, meme-nonsense and racism for lulz that goes on at 4chan.

I think that luchog makes a great point about the lack of woos. When the rare 9/11 truther shows up, they get swarmed because it's such a rare occurrence. I would imagine that woo proponents are all enjoying Facebook and other social media, where there are literally millions of people who will reinforce their beliefs without challenge. Why come here to discuss their pet woo, where it will be met with criticism, unless they are starved for attention?

The tribalism manifested in anti-woo here has definitely affected me though. I need to work on that.
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Old 29th October 2019, 07:38 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
One disturbing trend that was present early on was the need to not only debunk their nonsense, but also to further browbeat and ridicule the woos themselves.
That's been a problem with skeptic culture since it became an internet phenomenon.

"Movement skepticism" has always attracted bullies - people for whom the entire allure of engaging in discussion about those various topics was the ability to not just be correct, but really pummel the "believers" with accusations of them being stupid, laughable, scorn-worthy, possibly criminal, etc and so on.
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Old 29th October 2019, 07:42 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That's kind of the point, tho. They don't argue from any traditional ideology but only post to create a reaction. It's sometimes indistuingishable from normal trolling, but it's always designed to cause distress rather than to create "lulz". The aim is to spread a few odious viewpoints through over-saturation.

I don't think it's about contrarianism, but rather a need for anybody perceived as 'other' to ever be allowed to be right about anything.
I think Monkey's talking about people who just can't help but play devil's advocate, though, when the apparent group "consensus" is, say, undoubtedly 75% right, but there's that 25% where the room for dissent is just being ignored.
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Old 29th October 2019, 08:05 AM   #183
luchog
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
That's been a problem with skeptic culture since it became an internet phenomenon.

That was a problem with skeptic culture before it became an Internet phenomenon. Dawkins and Jillette have definitely had their moments, to drop names. But like with everything else, the anonymity of the Internet has exaggerated and exacerbated the darker side of the community (the GIFT phenomenon).
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
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Old 29th October 2019, 08:09 AM   #184
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What's the GIFT phenomenon?
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Old 29th October 2019, 08:13 AM   #185
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Google told me what TERF was, but not GIFT.
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Old 29th October 2019, 08:25 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
If you're talking about people who are reliably rightwing in a "pretty much any post they make will be awful" sense, yes. (I'd say it's way less than 10% of active forum members who are like that.)

Some posters with a history of saying goofy-terrible rightwing stuff sometimes seem to have shifted to being less terrible over the past year or two, though. From my perspective.

eta:
It's hard to have this conversation without being able to name names. Heh.


That last bit should be a clue that this has nothing to do with the content of the unnamed posters’ posts, but everything to do with the posters themselves.

We all have two basic tools available to us under the MA: reply to the content with civility OR ignore it completely. Casting aspersions on members is not (or should not be, anyway) considered civil discourse. That’s all this thread is: casting aspersions on posters who one might disagree with in order to marginalize them. Well-poisoning, even.
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Old 29th October 2019, 09:03 AM   #187
luchog
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
What's the GIFT phenomenon?
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Google told me what TERF was, but not GIFT.

Greater Internet ********** Theory; a somewhat more cynical interpretation of the Online Disinhibition Effect.

I can't link to the the GIFT page, due to being NSFW, but the general gist is "Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total **********.

Online Disinhibition Effect is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online...ibition_effect
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When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
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Old 29th October 2019, 09:15 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Greater Internet ********** Theory; a somewhat more cynical interpretation of the Online Disinhibition Effect.

I can't link to the the GIFT page, due to being NSFW, but the general gist is "Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total **********.

Online Disinhibition Effect is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online...ibition_effect
I was figuring from context that it was probably some version of the online disinhibition effect, but I've never heard of GIFT before. Thanks!
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Old 29th October 2019, 09:03 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I'm not saying you should ignore them. I'm saying you shouldn't engage them in conversation. You will not win any argument, and the only purpose served is to validate the person on the other side, no matter what he or she stands for.

Note, this applies to internet converstations. I should have made that clear. If you have loved ones that behave like this, you should absolutely try to de-radicalize them if you feel up to it. There needs to be a personal connection for that kind of thing to work. It doesn't work over the internet.
I maintain that the samizdat media, the alt-media, or paleo-conservatives don't radicalize people. They normalize them. They help people shrug of the lies fed to them constantly by Cult of Diversity and the Woke crowd. Modern beliefs promoted by the Cult of Diversity are one absurdity, built upon another absurdity, built upon another without end. No one ever believed this BS in the past. What is called "reactionary" is simply an understanding the world as people have always understood it. It is only viewed as being "radical" or "reactionary" if one has been fed lies their entire life.
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Old 30th October 2019, 01:04 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
No one ever believed this BS in the past. What is called "reactionary" is simply an understanding the world as people have always understood it. It is only viewed as being "radical" or "reactionary" if one has been fed lies their entire life.
What was believed in the past isn't really a good guide to the truth. Until relatively recently the idea that the Earth moves was only believed by a very small number of people in history. That there are other galaxies was not believed until the early 20th century. That life functions according to the laws of physics that apply to inanimate matter rather than though some other vital force is also a relatively recent idea. That time runs at different rates for different observers was certainly not believed by people before Einstein.

But perhaps you think that social views are different from scientific ones in that science progresses but our society's structure doesn't. I think Steven Pinker's recent books (The Better Angels of Our Nature and Enlightenment Now) do a good job of demonstrating at least some progress in society, in the form of less violence, for instance. For most of human history people never believed that slavery was wrong, only that it was something to try to avoid. That doesn't suggest to me that we are committing an error in thinking it's wrong today.
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Old 30th October 2019, 05:13 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I can't link to the the GIFT page, due to being NSFW, but the general gist is "Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total **********.

I think that the Rational Wiki page isn't so bad that it's NSFW: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dickwad_theory
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 30th October 2019, 06:03 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
How do you define "pseudo-centrist"? How are they different from actual centrists? I'm not sure what sort of member you're referring to as a "useful idiot" here, either.

Let me give it a try: Let's say that I claim to be a centrist (which I explicitly don't!), and let's say that somebody posts a fake quotation from Donald Trump intended to make Trump look bad; that he has sex with little boys, for instance. Now somebody not only points out that the quotation is fake but also proves it with a link, which makes me so upset that I attack the debunker of the fake Trump quotation for denying that Trump does what the quotation claims.

Another example, and this time not entirely made up: Let's say that somebody claims to be a centrist, and let's say that somebody posts fake (or badly amputated) quotations allegedly by Karl Marx trying to prove that Marx (and consequently all socialists) are proponents of violence. And let's say that I do a little research and debunk the story, i.e. prove that the completely fake quotation (as well as the amputated one) is entirely made up by right-wingers to discredit socialists.

What will a centrist do if this is pointed out? 1) Get upset because somebody posts lies? 2) Or get upset because I point out that they are lies?
Well, in my opinion, somebody who gets upset because right-wing iies are revealed to be lies is a pseudo-centrist because that somebody wants to believe and wants others to believe in the right-wing lies just as much as the right-wingers do.


ETA: In spite of quotations from Bertolt Brecht and Karl Marx in my sig, some posters occasionally feel the need to point out the bleeding obvious: that I'm a commie! They tend to be right-wingers rather than centrists even if they like to pose as centrists.

ETA: In the case of the amputated quotation, the poster was apparently unaware that it was fake and apologized for posting it.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 30th October 2019, 06:09 AM   #193
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The label maker store called. They want their label maker back. It was due yesterday and the thread will be charged a late fee if it's not back by noon.
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Old 30th October 2019, 04:35 PM   #194
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Mod Warning Several posts containing rule 12 breaches have been sent to the Bad Place. Please try harder to channel your inner Chidi Anagonye and refrain from personalising your arguments.
Posted By:Agatha
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Old 31st October 2019, 01:01 PM   #195
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Cutting out dissenting voices is how a cult operates, not a skeptics forum.
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Old 31st October 2019, 05:30 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Cutting out dissenting voices is how a cult operates, not a skeptics forum.

Why do you insist on mischaracterizing the discussion. (Never mind. I know the answer to that.)

What's being talked about is not "cutting out dissenting voices", but simply not engaging with the voices who have no interest or intent to engage honestly.

They can go ahead and 'dissent' all they want, and if they offer sincere and meaningful content with their dissent then people will engage with them. otherwise the best way to manage their contributions is to pay them no mind.

That doesn't "cut" anyone out, it just encourages them to engage in good faith.
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Old 31st October 2019, 09:04 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Why do you insist on mischaracterizing the discussion. (Never mind. I know the answer to that.)

What's being talked about is not "cutting out dissenting voices", but simply not engaging with the voices who have no interest or intent to engage honestly.

They can go ahead and 'dissent' all they want, and if they offer sincere and meaningful content with their dissent then people will engage with them. otherwise the best way to manage their contributions is to pay them no mind.

That doesn't "cut" anyone out, it just encourages them to engage in good faith.
Where’s a laughing dog?

If someone offers a sincere contribution that disagrees with progressive dogma, they will be labeled insincere rather than engaged with.
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Old 31st October 2019, 09:27 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Why do you insist on mischaracterizing the discussion. (Never mind. I know the answer to that.)

What's being talked about is not "cutting out dissenting voices", but simply not engaging with the voices who have no interest or intent to engage honestly.

They can go ahead and 'dissent' all they want, and if they offer sincere and meaningful content with their dissent then people will engage with them. otherwise the best way to manage their contributions is to pay them no mind.

That doesn't "cut" anyone out, it just encourages them to engage in good faith.
The issue I have is not that I disagree with that idea. There are certain posters who I don't engage with for exactly that reason. The issue I have is that it's not clear who the OP (and others) are talking about, so the factual question of whether or not they actually are sincere can't really be addressed in this thread.
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Old 31st October 2019, 10:02 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Is this how you see people being targeted by extreme rightwingers? That maybe they shouldn't be so outraged about having to always assert their right to exist
luchog's right to exist on this forum is tied up with the account on the forum's software, where it is the mods/admins who have the power to deny someone's "right to exist" on this forum by, for example, suspending or banning the account. Can you give some examples where luchog, or indeed anyone else, has had to assert their right to exist (ie appeal to a suspension or ban of their account) on this forum because of being targeted by extreme rightwingers?
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Old 31st October 2019, 10:10 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's hard to have this conversation without being able to name names. Heh.
Why wouldn't you be able to name names? It would certainly make things a lot easier to follow.
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