ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Edward Snowden , joe rogan

Reply
Old 24th October 2019, 04:39 AM   #1
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,813
Joe Rogan Talks to Edward Snowden

Okay, this is a very long conversation - over two hours - and I haven't listened to the whole thing.

It is a bit weird for a Joe Rogan podcast in that Rogan himself almost doesn't talk at all, let alone go into anecdotes about how he and Joey Diaz were getting high while bow-hunting elk in Alaska.

Instead, it is mostly Snowden talking in a way which really needs an executive summary, about his time in various projects in national security.

I suppose his main message is that the national security works to protect state apparatus, not the population, and are in fact quite cavalier about the rights of the population.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 04:43 AM   #2
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,193
Joe Rogan drives me nuts. He gets all the best interviews, but his shows are always hours long, sprawling unstructured slogs.

"needs an executive summary" can be said for pretty much every episode of his podcast.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 05:17 AM   #3
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,582
I'm on record years ago saying that this guy will once be president of the United States. After the swamp is drained. Looking forward to spending almost three hours with him and Joe. Thanks for the heads up!
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 06:51 AM   #4
mumblethrax
Species traitor
 
mumblethrax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,432
https://www.theonion.com/so-people-c...igh-1839294594
mumblethrax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 07:50 AM   #5
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 10,082
I wouldn't trust Snowden: he claims that the CIA isn't hiding Aliens:

https://www.businessinsider.de/edwar...9-10?r=US&IR=T

his defection was obviously a very elaborate cover-up.
__________________
Now listen, I could just have you revoked.
K-i-l-l-e-d, revoked.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 07:51 AM   #6
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 6,867
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Joe Rogan drives me nuts. He gets all the best interviews, but his shows are always hours long, sprawling unstructured slogs.

"needs an executive summary" can be said for pretty much every episode of his podcast.
I just hate Joe Rogan plain and simple. I don't know what it is but I always describe him as a "dude bro". Everyone sees him as this intellectual god send, and I generally see him as a rambling stoner. I'm not a huge fan of Snowden either, but a lot of people seem to like him. He's polarizing, you generally either like him or hate him. I thought I'd like him a bit more after the John Oliver interview, but that just made me impartial. He's a bit of a ******* for how he went about doing his thing, but overall it started a conversation that needed to be started.
__________________
"Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 08:02 AM   #7
mumblethrax
Species traitor
 
mumblethrax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,432
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I just hate Joe Rogan plain and simple. I don't know what it is but I always describe him as a "dude bro".
Yeah, the guy's a troglodyte. He was essentially playing himself on Newsradio--a credulous idiot. Things haven't gotten better since he got into supplements, ultimate fighting, and looking like a thumb.

His podcast is impossible to listen to. Sometimes there's an amusing clip. For the most part it seems like the kind of thing you'd find by searching for "ABSOLUTELY DESTROYS" on YouTube, and appeals to the audience that does such things.
mumblethrax is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 08:06 AM   #8
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,613
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I suppose his main message is that the national security works to protect state apparatus, not the population, and are in fact quite cavalier about the rights of the population.
In Sweden they tend to use the expression "state security", and not "national security". The "security police" is called such for that reason: it's meant to protect the state. On the other hand the normal police is meant to protect common people.

In America the word "state" is mostly used to refer to the various constituent state's. So using the term "national security" avoids the implication that it's about the security of the individual states, when it notionally is about protecting the "federal government". This also why American's tend to use the word government when other peoples would use state.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr

Last edited by Arcade22; 24th October 2019 at 08:13 AM.
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 08:27 AM   #9
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,582
Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
In Sweden they tend to use the expression "state security", and not "national security"

Do they call it "Stasi" as well like in the old "German Democratic Republic" (Stasi = STAatsSIcherheit - State Security)?

Been through it while doing the dishes: This guy is just so adorable, and still (as he says a true believer back then) so naive, but he literally threw a job in Hawaii receiving a ton of money for doing nothing away because of principles.

Until this guy is generally thought of as an American Hero, the country did not heal.

I especially liked the saying at the end, as we are where we are, about "you can't wake up someone who pretends to be asleep".
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 24th October 2019 at 08:29 AM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 02:37 PM   #10
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,813
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I just hate Joe Rogan plain and simple. I don't know what it is but I always describe him as a "dude bro". Everyone sees him as this intellectual god send, and I generally see him as a rambling stoner.
What? Who do you hang out with who see him as an intellectual godsend and NOT as a rambling stoner. A rambling stoner is pretty much how everyone I know sees him.

Personally, I think of him as someone who has actually improved over time from being a completely credulous conspiracy theorist and stoner., to someone who has actually learnt things from his many guests and has become a bit smarter as a result.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 05:04 PM   #11
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,435
I am convinced that Edward Snowden is now vastly exaggerating the types, scope, and amount of data, and which organizations' data, that he had access to. He started out as a computer contractor for the NSA, but to hear him tell it he apparently had free access to all of the deepest secrets of every single discrete intelligence agency in the country. Not only that, but he was freely able to query all of their databases without arising suspicion.

Compartmentalization is a thing - not even the CIA's top actual agents have access to all of the CIA's top secrets....but IT-monkey Snowden did? Not buying it.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th October 2019, 05:11 PM   #12
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,100
I can't of a more tedious thing to listen to.

Can you summarize it in a couple of paragraphs to avoid my having to self torture?
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th October 2019, 09:37 AM   #13
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,813
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I am convinced that Edward Snowden is now vastly exaggerating the types, scope, and amount of data, and which organizations' data, that he had access to. He started out as a computer contractor for the NSA, but to hear him tell it he apparently had free access to all of the deepest secrets of every single discrete intelligence agency in the country. Not only that, but he was freely able to query all of their databases without arising suspicion.

Compartmentalization is a thing - not even the CIA's top actual agents have access to all of the CIA's top secrets....but IT-monkey Snowden did? Not buying it.
Exactly! He's a limited hangout paid to conceal the Area 51 aliens!
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th October 2019, 10:34 AM   #14
rockysmith76
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 377
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm on record years ago saying that this guy will once be president of the United States. After the swamp is drained. Looking forward to spending almost three hours with him and Joe. Thanks for the heads up!
liberal....
rockysmith76 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th October 2019, 03:56 PM   #15
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,813
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post

Been through it while doing the dishes: .
How many dishes do you have in your house that it took you two and a half hours?
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th October 2019, 06:55 PM   #16
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,355
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
How many dishes do you have in your house that it took you two and a half hours?
I was thinking, "Been a while since you washed the dishes, eh?"

---------

I like Joe Rogan okay. He's not a "DudeBro" and I don't know anyone who sees him as some member of the intelligentsia.

I agree that he's someone who's improved over time. His evolution to becoming a stoner was an improvement over how he was pre-weed, too.

He's just...a regular person who gets interviews with a wide variety of kooky people.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th October 2019, 07:07 PM   #17
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,880
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I was thinking, "Been a while since you washed the dishes, eh?"

---------

I like Joe Rogan okay. He's not a "DudeBro" and I don't know anyone who sees him as some member of the intelligentsia.

I agree that he's someone who's improved over time. His evolution to becoming a stoner was an improvement over how he was pre-weed, too.

He's just...a regular person who gets interviews with a wide variety of kooky people.
On the show the good place, the bad place's punishment punishment for Emily Dickinson was listening to JRE.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 04:13 AM   #18
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,813
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
On the show the good place, the bad place's punishment punishment for Emily Dickinson was listening to JRE.
I guess you have no opinion on spoiler alerts.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 08:47 AM   #19
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,880
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I guess you have no opinion on spoiler alerts.
Correct. I don't give them.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 09:41 AM   #20
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,264
delete - I was cranky
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 10:16 AM   #21
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 16,134
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I am convinced that Edward Snowden is now vastly exaggerating the types, scope, and amount of data, and which organizations' data, that he had access to. He started out as a computer contractor for the NSA, but to hear him tell it he apparently had free access to all of the deepest secrets of every single discrete intelligence agency in the country. Not only that, but he was freely able to query all of their databases without arising suspicion.

Eh, I don't know. Given my experience with government information security, and the generally incompetent way that it's structured and maintained, I find it entirely plausible that he could have gone poking around in places he shouldn't have been, with little to no suspicion aroused.

So much of what the governments and megacorps do regarding information security is nothing more than security theatre -- big showy programs and policies, but with little actual practical benefit. The level of incompetence amongst security "professionals" in both the government and civilian corporate world is quite frightening.
__________________
When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
luchog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 10:33 AM   #22
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,582
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
How many dishes do you have in your house that it took you two and a half hours?
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I was thinking, "Been a while since you washed the dishes, eh?"

I only do manual labour as a form of meditation, so it is going quite slowly. Actually I wasn't finished yet with the single (crystal) wine glas when the talk was over. And still aren't.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 26th October 2019 at 10:35 AM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 03:24 PM   #23
The_Animus
Illuminator
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,080
I listened to most of the podcast so far.

Snowden comes off as intelligent and articulate. It's an interesting podcast and I hope one day he gets pardoned and can come back.

Last edited by The_Animus; 26th October 2019 at 03:31 PM.
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 03:29 PM   #24
The_Animus
Illuminator
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,080
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I was thinking, "Been a while since you washed the dishes, eh?"

---------

I like Joe Rogan okay. He's not a "DudeBro" and I don't know anyone who sees him as some member of the intelligentsia.

I agree that he's someone who's improved over time. His evolution to becoming a stoner was an improvement over how he was pre-weed, too.

He's just...a regular person who gets interviews with a wide variety of kooky people.
This is pretty much my opinion of him. He has guests of all types, left, right, kooky, intelligent. The whole point of his podcast is to get away from stupid sound byte interviews so the guest can properly express their ideas in long form discussion.

Joe used to be more conspiracy oriented but I think he is more critical now. I certainly don't agree with everything he says but he does often have good points on certain topics. I laugh at the people who write him off as a right wing conspiracy nut and wonder if they ever actually listen to his podcasts.

Last edited by The_Animus; 26th October 2019 at 03:31 PM.
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2019, 04:27 PM   #25
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,582
Rogan seems very authentic and genuinely interested in his guests. So when he has a guest on I'm interested in as well it is always a pleasure to listen to this show. Most of his guests I'm not interested in though so I don't have him on my feed list to reduce noise. If there's some very interesting guest there's always an angrysoba somewhere to inform me.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 08:16 AM   #26
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,264
I listen to Rogan all the time because my boyfriend basically worships at his altar. I don't agree with most of the people in this thread. I don't like JR much. I try to, but it doesn't quite work. The woo-ish stuff he frequently says about drugs (like DMT) puts me off, and I feel that he gives his kookier guests softball questions and barely challenges them at all. I get tired of hearing about his MMA stories, and his, "Oh, when I was tripping on an Alaskan mountain and saw a UFO" stories. He has said that women who don't like children "disgust" him. He thinks people like Bob Lazar are credible. He's very annoying to me.

He's not evil or outright terrible, of course. I would not call him a right-wing conspiracy kook, or whatever. I wouldn't call him a dudebro either, though a number of his fans certainly fit that description. Being into physical fitness is a good thing, though, and it doesn't make one a meathead. Rogan is clearly not stupid, and I'm sure he's basically an okay guy. He sometimes says things that are smart or humorous or both. But wading through four rambling hours in order to get those tidbits is usually not (to me personally) worth it. He says too many other annoying things along the way, especially about drugs. He works mystical, mind-opening druggles into every single conversation, it seems, and it drives me crazy. He and I are too awfully different to ever be pals.

All that being said, I will definitely be watching the Snowden episode. (I end up watching most of the episodes, haha. The one I liked the most was a conversation with Maynard James Keenan.)

Last edited by isissxn; 27th October 2019 at 08:19 AM.
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 08:31 AM   #27
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 25,813
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
I listen to Rogan all the time because my boyfriend basically worships at his altar. I don't agree with most of the people in this thread. I don't like JR much. I try to, but it doesn't quite work. The woo-ish stuff he frequently says about drugs (like DMT) puts me off, and I feel that he gives his kookier guests softball questions and barely challenges them at all. I get tired of hearing about his MMA stories, and his, "Oh, when I was tripping on an Alaskan mountain and saw a UFO" stories. He has said that women who don't like children "disgust" him. He thinks people like Bob Lazar are credible. He's very annoying to me.

He's not evil or outright terrible, of course. I would not call him a right-wing conspiracy kook, or whatever. I wouldn't call him a dudebro either, though a number of his fans certainly fit that description. Being into physical fitness is a good thing, though, and it doesn't make one a meathead. Rogan is clearly not stupid, and I'm sure he's basically an okay guy. He sometimes says things that are smart or humorous or both. But wading through four rambling hours in order to get those tidbits is usually not (to me personally) worth it. He says too many other annoying things along the way, especially about drugs. He works mystical, mind-opening druggles into every single conversation, it seems, and it drives me crazy. He and I are too awfully different to ever be pals.

All that being said, I will definitely be watching the Snowden episode. (I end up watching most of the episodes, haha. The one I liked the most was a conversation with Maynard James Keenan.)

I'm sorry to hear your boyfriend worships Joe Rogan. I think that is way too much. He's not worth that much adulation, or so it is said by my Lord and Saviour, the Blessed Joe Rogan. That said, I expect he is a subscriber to his podcast in which case, your boyfriend probably has too much Joe Rogan in his ears.

For a while, I listened to too many of his podcasts and realized that I was listening to him far more than I do to my wife and son (in terms of minutes, not necessarily in terms of attentiveness).

My advice is to cut out on the MMA fighters and stand-up comedians. There are two good reasons for this. MMA fighters are not interesting to listen to and stand-up comedians are not funny when they are not reciting their acts. That last part is really true. In fact, my guess is that most stand-up comedians only become stand-up comedians out of some kind of overcompensation. They are not funny off-stage (there are some exceptions. I think that Bill Burr is fairly amusing, and Anthony Jeselnik).

Joe Rogan's worst woo-acceptance is in the nutrition areas. He listens to and believes all kinds of cranks there. That said, he seems to be getting better even here and recently had a debate between Garry Taubes and Stephen Guyenet, the latter of whom wiped the floor with Taubes.

The other problems with Rogan is that sometimes he just ends up getting stoned and making no sense. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but a few times he is talking to someone making serious points and it is clear that Rogan is too baked to understand what is going on in the conversation.

Overall, though, I think Rogan is a net positive.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 08:44 AM   #28
isissxn
Rough Around the Edges
 
isissxn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Deep Storage
Posts: 6,264
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm sorry to hear your boyfriend worships Joe Rogan. I think that is way too much. He's not worth that much adulation, or so it is said by my Lord and Saviour, the Blessed Joe Rogan. That said, I expect he is a subscriber to his podcast in which case, your boyfriend probably has too much Joe Rogan in his ears.
Yeah, my dude definitely walks the woo-line, and a lot of what he finds super-appealing about Rogan is all the psychedelic theory and ancient alien stuff. The very stuff that gets on my nerves! Luckily, though, bf has a really good sense of humor about all of it. I can freely share my opinions while we listen, and it causes laughter and spirited conversation rather than arguments. So it's all good.

Quote:
For a while, I listened to too many of his podcasts and realized that I was listening to him far more than I do to my wife and son (in terms of minutes, not necessarily in terms of attentiveness).

My advice is to cut out on the MMA fighters and stand-up comedians. There are two good reasons for this. MMA fighters are not interesting to listen to and stand-up comedians are not funny when they are not reciting their acts. That last part is really true. In fact, my guess is that most stand-up comedians only become stand-up comedians out of some kind of overcompensation. They are not funny off-stage (there are some exceptions. I think that Bill Burr is fairly amusing, and Anthony Jeselnik).

Joe Rogan's worst woo-acceptance is in the nutrition areas. He listens to and believes all kinds of cranks there. That said, he seems to be getting better even here and recently had a debate between Garry Taubes and Stephen Guyenet, the latter of whom wiped the floor with Taubes.

The other problems with Rogan is that sometimes he just ends up getting stoned and making no sense. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but a few times he is talking to someone making serious points and it is clear that Rogan is too baked to understand what is going on in the conversation.
Yeah, I think you've explained it really well. And like I said before, there's a lot of good stuff throughout the interviews. I'm just a bit sensitive to certain topics that pop up with frequency (and easily bored by a few others), so those annoyances jump out at me more than they might jump out at someone more neutral.

Quote:
Overall, though, I think Rogan is a net positive.
He's definitely not the worst. If I really hated him, I'd refuse to listen to him at all. Bf and I don't live together, so when I'm really not feeling Rogan on a particular day, I beg him to listen later, after I've gone home. I honestly think he enjoys our debates, and yes, I think he enjoys how fired up I get as well.
isissxn is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 09:12 AM   #29
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,159
I've clicked on a lot of Joe "the Comments are Funnier" Rogan videos. The clips are less intolerable. Jake the Snake telling Giant stories? OK, I'll give that a listen. I don't know how people make it through the entire podcast. There's something to be said for an unedited, free-ranging interview, but there's also something to be said for an edited interview. With all of his "alpha" brain supplements and coconut water, one would think Rogan could do more research and have more of a game plan for how these things will go down.
__________________
April 13th, 2018:
Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 10:35 AM   #30
nelsondogg
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 334
Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I've clicked on a lot of Joe "the Comments are Funnier" Rogan videos. The clips are less intolerable. Jake the Snake telling Giant stories? OK, I'll give that a listen. I don't know how people make it through the entire podcast. There's something to be said for an unedited, free-ranging interview, but there's also something to be said for an edited interview. With all of his "alpha" brain supplements and coconut water, one would think Rogan could do more research and have more of a game plan for how these things will go down.
He usually starts off really interesting, but by the 90th minute or so the pot takes over and he starts babbling about aliens or as mentioned, is left completely unable to comprehend the point the guest is making.

Perfect example was the recent episode with Nick Bostrom. An hour or so of great conversation, until Rogan was unable to grasp the probability argument in regards to Nick's "we are living in a computer simulation" thought experiment. He got stuck in a loop for at least 30 minutes listening to Nick's explanation and repeating the same objection to it over and over. Painful.
nelsondogg is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 03:03 PM   #31
Cain
Straussian
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,159
Nick Bostrom! It's a shame because he gets a lot of great guests.
__________________
April 13th, 2018:
Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.
Cain is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 06:37 PM   #32
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,355
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
..., and I feel that he gives his kookier guests softball questions and barely challenges them at all.
One of his "gimmicks" is getting already kooky people to say even kookier stuff, sometimes under the influence of mind-altering substances.

It's a "BEHOLD THE FREAK SHOW WHICH IS THIS PERSON'S BELIEFS" thing.

Engaging in a suspension of disbelief and only asking softball questions is the only way to keep the train moving in that particular direction. So, that doesn't bother me.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 06:46 PM   #33
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,355
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
He works mystical, mind-opening druggles into every single conversation, it seems, and it drives me crazy. He and I are too awfully different to ever be pals.
Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Joe Rogan's worst woo-acceptance is in the nutrition areas. He listens to and believes all kinds of cranks there. That said, he seems to be getting better even here and recently had a debate between Garry Taubes and Stephen Guyenet, the latter of whom wiped the floor with Taubes.
His show really is "Oprah, for men".
lol
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2019, 09:08 PM   #34
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 24,435
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Eh, I don't know. Given my experience with government information security, and the generally incompetent way that it's structured and maintained, I find it entirely plausible that he could have gone poking around in places he shouldn't have been, with little to no suspicion aroused.

So much of what the governments and megacorps do regarding information security is nothing more than security theatre -- big showy programs and policies, but with little actual practical benefit. The level of incompetence amongst security "professionals" in both the government and civilian corporate world is quite frightening.
It's not so much that; I was thinking more along the lines of stovepiping, and the fact that none of these agencies actually communicate with each other. Their various discrete information systems at the least are definitely not shared, interconnected, or accessible to each other in such a way as Snowden implies.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2019, 12:29 AM   #35
Jono
Master Poster
 
Jono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Rarely catch any of his pods. Last one I listened to was when he had Steven Pinker on.
__________________
"I don't believe I ever saw an Oklahoman who wouldn't fight at the drop of a hat -- and frequently drop the hat himself." - Robert E. Howard
Jono is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2019, 04:22 AM   #36
SuburbanTurkey
Master Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 2,193
Joe Rogan is the dude-bro version of Oprah. Getting lots of mileage out of the ole "just keeping an open mind" excuse as he grants a huge platform to a variety of woo and nonsense. Guests know they don't have to expect much push-back for any old BS so long as it feels and sounds mostly right and benign.

Edit: kellyb already called the Oprah comparison, but I hadn't read that comment before posting mine. It really is a very similar business model, just with different audiences.
__________________
Gobble gobble

Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 28th October 2019 at 04:24 AM.
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2019, 05:58 AM   #37
kellyb
Penultimate Amazing
 
kellyb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 12,355
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Joe Rogan is the dude-bro version of Oprah. Getting lots of mileage out of the ole "just keeping an open mind" excuse as he grants a huge platform to a variety of woo and nonsense. Guests know they don't have to expect much push-back for any old BS so long as it feels and sounds mostly right and benign.

Edit: kellyb already called the Oprah comparison, but I hadn't read that comment before posting mine. It really is a very similar business model, just with different audiences.
I don't think it's an excuse with him (or with Oprah for that matter), and it's really not like it has to sound right and benign to be allowed with no push-back.

I mean, he had Milo Yiannopoulos on.

Oprah brought KKK skinheads on her show.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend.
kellyb is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2019, 11:04 AM   #38
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 16,134
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It's not so much that; I was thinking more along the lines of stovepiping, and the fact that none of these agencies actually communicate with each other. Their various discrete information systems at the least are definitely not shared, interconnected, or accessible to each other in such a way as Snowden implies.

Eh, I'm not strictly convinced of that anymore either. I know agencies do not like to share information with each other; but I'm not entirely convinced that there is no access; particularly given that many of these systems do have outside access available. We certainly do know that the attitude toward internal security in many government agencies has been disturbingly lax in the past.
__________________
When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.
luchog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 05:22 AM   #39
Eddie Dane
Philosopher
 
Eddie Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,679
Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I don't think it's an excuse with him (or with Oprah for that matter), and it's really not like it has to sound right and benign to be allowed with no push-back.

I mean, he had Milo Yiannopoulos on.

Oprah brought KKK skinheads on her show.
That episode killed Milo's career.

He is now reduced to e-begging.
__________________
Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh!
Eddie Dane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th October 2019, 05:39 AM   #40
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 86,174
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm on record years ago saying that this guy will once be president of the United States. After the swamp is drained.
Swamp's overflowing right now. We'll get back to you.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:34 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.