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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , church scandals , George Pell , roman catholic church , sex scandals

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Old 12th October 2017, 03:25 PM   #401
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Maybe you missed this bit:

Yes that's right! Not only has the Royal Commission recommended the scrapping of the deeds of release but some of the "church's own bodies" agree.
They are all changing? Huh!
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:32 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yep, I saw that you did. Just to be clear you went with:

FIRST: sacerdotal authoritarianism!

SECOND: ignorance

THIRD: superstition

2 out of 3 racist, not really saved by your FIRST "point" but heck fire please don't let us forget :

"the third world, where sacerdotal authoritarianism, ignorance and superstition are more prevalent."

Heck, I look forward to more analysis about superstition, ignorance AND "sacerdotal authoritarianism" in the third world.

I made them three different colors in case any one got confused by the ignorance and superstition claims, and did not give proper heed to the equally important sacerdotal authoritarianism claim, which is also a thing.
Explain to me what is racist about saying that ignorance and superstition are more prevalent in the third world than in more developed areas.

Before modern levels of advanced technology and communications had been reached in Europe, ignorance and superstition were more prevalent here too. Until recently they were more prevalent in China, but they are retreating before the astounding technical advances currently being achieved there. That happened in Japan a century ago, too. So what is racist about such observations?
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Old 12th October 2017, 03:44 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Explain to me what is racist about saying that ignorance and superstition are more prevalent in the third world than in more developed areas.

Before modern levels of advanced technology and communications had been reached in Europe, ignorance and superstition were more prevalent here too. Until recently they were more prevalent in China, but they are retreating before the astounding technical advances currently being achieved there. That happened in Japan a century ago, too. So what is racist about such observations?
Really?? Figure it out yourself, and try not to use, in 2800 BC people thought that Europeans were ignorant and blah blah blah, 100 years ago in japan..

Think about what you wrote, today, about people you consider ignorant and superstitious, today.

Beyond baffled I have to explain something so *********** simple at this point...
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:08 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Really?? Figure it out yourself, and try not to use, in 2800 BC people thought that Europeans were ignorant and blah blah blah, 100 years ago in japan..

Think about what you wrote, today, about people you consider ignorant and superstitious, today.
No, you think about it please and stop lying about it. I said that ignorance and superstition were more prevalent in the third world, not any of the things you have mendaciously attributed to me. I can see that even if the pope is infallible in matters of morals, he hasn't passed any of the infallibility on to you.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Beyond baffled I have to explain something so *********** simple at this point...
If you think you have to explain things why don't you go ahead and do so? All I'm getting so far is nonsense, misrepresentation, and abuse mitigated somewhat by the auto censor's asterisks. Explanations would be a welcome change.
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Old 12th October 2017, 05:22 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
No, you think about it please and stop lying about it. I said that ignorance and superstition were more prevalent in the third world, not any of the things you have mendaciously attributed to me. I can see that even if the pope is infallible in matters of morals, he hasn't passed any of the infallibility on to you. If you think you have to explain things why don't you go ahead and do so? All I'm getting so far is nonsense, misrepresentation, and abuse mitigated somewhat by the auto censor's asterisks. Explanations would be a welcome change.
Mendaciously? You mean where I pointed out that you brought up ancient Eurpoe and Japan a century ago. Should I have not brought up the fact you mentioned those grossly irrelevant things? Oh that was my bad. I guess I should also not point out that no one called ancient Europe of Japan the third world at that time.

I did notice that you did not address the whole calling third world people ignorant and superstitious today?

It's racist.
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Old 12th October 2017, 11:10 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Mendaciously? You mean where I pointed out that you brought up ancient Eurpoe and Japan a century ago. Should I have not brought up the fact you mentioned those grossly irrelevant things? Oh that was my bad. I guess I should also not point out that no one called ancient Europe of Japan the third world at that time.

I did notice that you did not address the whole calling third world people ignorant and superstitious today?

It's racist.
I thought you were going to stop misrepresenting what I said, namely that ignorance and superstition were more prevalent in the third world, but you carry on telling lies.

These conditions are consequences of technical development, as I have pointed out, not of race, so I hoped you were going to explain in what way I was being racist. But you have merely stated it again without offering an explanation. You have now gone beyond any possibility of error. This is intentional misrepresentation.

That is very naughty. Therefore you must abjure the sinfulness in which you are now indulging, and you must display firm purpose of amendment. Otherwise the spirit of the infallible Pius IX will give you a severe telling off, when you meet him in Purgatory.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:36 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Mendaciously? You mean where I pointed out that you brought up ancient Eurpoe and Japan a century ago. Should I have not brought up the fact you mentioned those grossly irrelevant things? Oh that was my bad. I guess I should also not point out that no one called ancient Europe of Japan the third world at that time.

I did notice that you did not address the whole calling third world people ignorant and superstitious today?

It's racist.

Now that Craig B has effectively dealt with your desperate racist parry, (you indulged in distract us from the main issue), perhaps you could answer the questions regarding the recent questionable manoeuvres by some in the RCC. My post #400 was the last on that subject.
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Old 13th October 2017, 01:48 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Now that Craig B has effectively dealt with your desperate racist parry, (you indulged in distract us from the main issue), perhaps you could answer the questions regarding the recent questionable manoeuvres by some in the RCC. My post #400 was the last on that subject.
I'm sorry, he did what now? Adding "more prevalent in the third world" to a string of racist accusations does not mollify the racist comment in the slightest.

Um, as soon as you know you get around to answering my long outstanding questions about whether Australia is opening all civil settlement agreements, or is is that the AntiTheist Broadcasting Company is just shilling for some ambulance chaser who wants to cash in?

(protip: the answers are No, and Yes)
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Old 13th October 2017, 02:44 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I'm sorry, he did what now? Adding "more prevalent in the third world" to a string of racist accusations does not mollify the racist comment in the slightest.

Um, as soon as you know you get around to answering my long outstanding questions about whether Australia is opening all civil settlement agreements, or is is that the AntiTheist Broadcasting Company is just shilling for some ambulance chaser who wants to cash in?

(protip: the answers are No, and Yes)

Give it a break! How can Craig B be making racist accusations if he is not defining a race as the target.

There are a multitude of different races residing in developing countries and the chances are Craig B may be racially identical to some.

Back to the question at hand then and once again I draw your attention to the following:

Quote:
"Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses To Child Abuse and the church's own bodies recommending they be scrapped"
Perhaps you are going to rename the above as the "Anti Theist Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses To Child Abuse", but you can't get away from the the fact that some of "the church's own bodies", have recommended those settlement agreements be scrapped. I applaud those bodies, and also the individual Catholic clergy who have apologised for their own, and the churches, less than appropriate responses in the past. Why are we not seeing a directive from the Pope, telling all his underlings to get in line and make this thing right?
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Old 13th October 2017, 02:49 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post

Perhaps you are going to rename the above as the "Anti Theist Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses To Child Abuse", but you can't get away from the the fact that some of "the church's own bodies", have recommended those settlement agreements be scrapped. I applaud those bodies, and also the individual Catholic clergy who have apologised for their own, and the churches, less than appropriate responses in the past. Why are we not seeing a directive from the Pope, telling all his underlings to get in line and make this thing right?
So that is a big No to reopening all the other civil settlements, then? Cool.

We knew, we just have some shysters seeking to line their pockets, prompted by the thoroughly discredited ABC.

Anti Theist Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses To Child Abuse?

OK, if you say so.
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Old 13th October 2017, 03:31 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So that is a big No to reopening all the other civil settlements, then? Cool.

We knew, we just have some shysters seeking to line their pockets, prompted by the thoroughly discredited ABC.

Anti Theist Royal Commission Into Institutional Responses To Child Abuse?

OK, if you say so.
Shysters lining their pockets???

The following is from The Australian or maybe you would say the The Anti-Theist Australian.

Quote:
NEW figures revealing the impact of child abuse show as many as one in ten survivors have contemplated or attempted suicide, amid demands for better support from health practitioners including GPs.
Analysis of more than 3500 calls over the past four years to a helpline operated by peak body Adults Surviving Child Abuse shows 67 per cent of people who said they had experienced sexual, physical or emotional abuse as a child suffered mental health problems as a result.
The settlements made between the Catholic Church and the victims of child abuse cannot be compared to "other civil settlements". The victims are mentally damaged, afraid, and will clutch at anything offered.
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Old 13th October 2017, 05:08 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Shysters lining their pockets???

The following is from The Australian or maybe you would say the The Anti-Theist Australian.

The settlements made between the Catholic Church and the victims of child abuse cannot be compared to "other civil settlements". The victims are mentally damaged, afraid, and will clutch at anything offered.
So says their shyster lawyer and the discredited ABC.

One would be a bit surprised at the callous attitude toward other victims, injured parties, including those that are mentally damaged, afraid, and will clutch at anything offered, by negligence/intentional harm, etc but then I remember:

Anti-Catholicism.

Check.
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Old 13th October 2017, 09:42 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So says their shyster lawyer and the discredited ABC.
"That which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence."

Since you've done nothing to back up your claim about shysters and their lawyers gaming the system, we can safely consider this to be just one person's opinion. And it's worth exactly what we paid for it.
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Old 14th October 2017, 08:21 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
"That which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence."

Since you've done nothing to back up your claim about shysters and their lawyers gaming the system, we can safely consider this to be just one person's opinion. And it's worth exactly what we paid for it.
Irony meter explodes.

The desperate attempts to shift the burden to me are hilarious.
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Old 14th October 2017, 08:54 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Irony meter explodes.

The desperate attempts to shift the burden to me are hilarious.
You're easily amused if you think that being asked to back up your claims is "hilarious". But then you "remember" that any view contrary to your own is "anti Catholicism" or "racism" and then of course you don't need to answer it; you merely deride it.
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Old 14th October 2017, 09:03 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
You're easily amused if you think that being asked to back up your claims is "hilarious". But then you "remember" that any view contrary to your own is "anti Catholicism" or "racism" and then of course you don't need to answer it; you merely deride it.
My rebuttal based in the actual article that forms the basis of the claims to which I was replying. Folks around here need basic understanding of shifting the burden fallacy

The anti-Catholicism was admitted

The racist nature of the comment in question, obvious.

Let me know if I can help you further
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Old 14th October 2017, 11:18 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
<snip for brevity>
We knew, we just have some shysters seeking to line their pockets, prompted by the thoroughly discredited ABC.
<snip>
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So says their shyster lawyer and the discredited ABC.<snip>
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Irony meter explodes.
The desperate attempts to shift the burden to me are hilarious.
Twice now you've used the term "shyster" to describe either the claiments themselves or their lawyers and have implied they're working only to "line their pockets," presumably at the expense of the Roman Catholic church in Australia. However, you have supplied exactly zero evidence this is the case. When asked to supply such evidence, you say the burden of proof is being shifted?

Sorry, no. You made the claim; you back it up. Otherwise everyone else on this thread can safely assume you're just making things up.
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Old 14th October 2017, 11:26 AM   #418
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Quote:
<snip> Folks around here need basic understanding of shifting the burden fallacy
For sure ... I can think of one poster in particular.
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Old 14th October 2017, 11:42 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Twice now you've used the term "shyster" to describe either the claiments themselves or their lawyers and have implied they're working only to "line their pockets," presumably at the expense of the Roman Catholic church in Australia. However, you have supplied exactly zero evidence this is the case. When asked to supply such evidence, you say the burden of proof is being shifted?

Sorry, no. You made the claim; you back it up. Otherwise everyone else on this thread can safely assume you're just making things up.
One expects a baseline understanding of the terms in common usage, such as shyster. Feel free to disagree with my opinion on the subject if you wish.

I am gratified that you concur with my assessment of the disreputable folks at the abc, who in addition to having been proved biased have done nothing more than act as the mouthpiece for the "learned counsel" seeking to reopen long settled claims.

I wonder if the "learned counsel" is going to fund the reimbursement of the previous settlements so they can try and get more money, because I guess in Australia "settlement" means nothing.
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Old 14th October 2017, 12:52 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
My rebuttal based in the actual article that forms the basis of the claims to which I was replying. Folks around here need basic understanding of shifting the burden fallacy

The anti-Catholicism was admitted

The racist nature of the comment in question, obvious.

Let me know if I can help you further

Getting somewhat desperate here aren't we?

Anti-Catholicism admitted? Well I freely admit to being anti-Catholicism (not ant- Catholic however as explained), but has the ABC made such an admission?

Your bolding "obvious" does little to strengthen your case in proving "racism". Your feeble attempts to shore up this claim have been comprehensively rebutted, and my last comment about it wasn't even answered by you.
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Old 14th October 2017, 01:00 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Getting somewhat desperate here aren't we?

Anti-Catholicism admitted? Well I freely admit to being anti-Catholicism.
Yes, that is what I just said. Hard to imagine how being accurate is desperate

They lifting other settlements?

I know they are not, but maybe you could, you know, address that?
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:05 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yes, that is what I just said. Hard to imagine how being accurate is desperate

They lifting other settlements?

I know they are not, but maybe you could, you know, address that?

Not a good look The Big Dog!

Cutting out the part of my post wherein the questions lie whilst trying to score a cheap point.
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:14 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
One expects a baseline understanding of the terms in common usage, such as shyster. Feel free to disagree with my opinion on the subject if you wish.

I am gratified that you concur with my assessment of the disreputable folks at the abc, who in addition to having been proved biased have done nothing more than act as the mouthpiece for the "learned counsel" seeking to reopen long settled claims.

I wonder if the "learned counsel" is going to fund the reimbursement of the previous settlements so they can try and get more money, because I guess in Australia "settlement" means nothing.
That is very much a non-reply. I know what shyster means, and even showed that by the very next phrase in my post. I don't know how it was you concluded I didn't know what the term meant.

My question to you was: show me the evidence these people are shysters.

I'm also really confused about your conclusion that I agree with you with respect to the ABC, given I made no mention of the ABC in the post you replied to.

I recommend you read the posts you're replying to and comprehend them first, instead of replying to what appears to be a different post altogether. In your mind it may be clear what you're replying to, but to someone who's reading the words you wrote, it's not.
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:33 PM   #424
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Oh dear... Moving forward seeing as my repeated posts are being studiously ignored, we see that Austalia is not taking steps to rescind other long settled matters.

Hearing no reason why the law should be cast aside here and not in other cases involving mental harm, debilitating pain, hell permanent debilitating injury, this seems well and fully settled.

I wonder if the same people advocating reopening these settlements are also pressing for reparations of the genocide of Catholics by the British Empire? Unlikely, hmmm?
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Old 14th October 2017, 05:53 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear... Moving forward seeing as my repeated posts are being studiously ignored, we see that Austalia is not taking steps to rescind other long settled matters.

Hearing no reason why the law should be cast aside here and not in other cases involving mental harm, debilitating pain, hell permanent debilitating injury, this seems well and fully settled.

I wonder if the same people advocating reopening these settlements are also pressing for reparations of the genocide of Catholics by the British Empire? Unlikely, hmmm?

This is looking like a more and more desperate move to distract our attention from the subject at hand. I imagine you will be trying to lever Stalin into the discussion soon.

We are talking about the decline of the Catholic Church here, how much of that is a result of the hovering stench child abuse within the church, and the lest than compassionate response of the church in the wake of it.
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Old 14th October 2017, 07:28 PM   #426
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I am very relieved to note that Wikipedia states that the anti-Semitic implications of the term "shyster" are based on a false etymology and without evidence.
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Old 14th October 2017, 07:39 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I am very relieved to note that Wikipedia states that the anti-Semitic implications of the term "shyster" are based on a false etymology and without evidence.
Curious, I was thinking about people who say they are not anti-Semitic they are just anti-Zionist. I guess that is like claiming they are not anti-Catholic, they are anti-Catholicism. Except, you read the former mostly on neo-Nazi sites, and the latter is more like saying "I am not anti-Jew, I am anti-Judaism."

Of course, being "anti-Catholicism" is one of the last bastions of fashionable bigotry.
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Old 15th October 2017, 01:53 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious, I was thinking about people who say they are not anti-Semitic they are just anti-Zionist. I guess that is like claiming they are not anti-Catholic, they are anti-Catholicism. Except, you read the former mostly on neo-Nazi sites, and the latter is more like saying "I am not anti-Jew, I am anti-Judaism."

Of course, being "anti-Catholicism" is one of the last bastions of fashionable bigotry.

Nah ....... just doesn't cut it as a good analogy. Too many vagaries of meaning here.

Being a Jew can define a person as being of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism, and who trace their origins to the ancient Hebrew people of Israel. They can however be unbelievers and a huge number are.

Semitic relates to the peoples who speak Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic. To be anti-semitic means you are agin more than just Jews.

A supporter of Zionism is a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

Catholic specifically and with no ambiguity, refers to someone who believes in the Catholic faith and Catholicism refers to that faith.

Ant-Catholicism is not a mindset resulting from bigotry, but from observation of the role Catholicism played in the past and present. Burnings at the stake and such in the past and people dying of AIDS and such in the present.

There are many, many, more examples of the harm being done as a direct result of those being guided by Catholic teaching. Bigotry just doesn't come into the picture at all.
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Old 15th October 2017, 02:02 PM   #429
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Protocals of the Elders of Rome.

It is fashionable folks.
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Old 15th October 2017, 02:24 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Protocals of the Elders of Rome.

It is fashionable folks.
What's a "Protocal"? Food before it becomes calories?
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Old 15th October 2017, 02:48 PM   #431
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Protocals of the Elders of Rome.

It is fashionable folks.

This is either way to deep for me or over my head. Try to explain please.

Just repeating something, like that fashionable thing, is not an argument. I suppose most of us used this kind of technique when we were kids ..... "Yes it is", "No it isn't", "Yes it is", "No it isn't", ..........
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Old 15th October 2017, 04:01 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Protocals of the Elders of Rome.

It is fashionable folks.
If you're intending to continue producing this stuff in order to avoid having to answer any of the points put to you, you will really have to be more subtle.

There is of course anti-Catholicism, of the "no Catholics need apply" variety, and it takes other forms too. But the problem is that criticism of the offences and excesses of the functionaries of the Church in recent years can't be dismissed in that way. The perps can't hide behind the suffering of oppressed Catholics any more than the West Bank settlers can legitimately exploit the sufferings of the victims of the Holocaust to cover and distract attention from their own failings. It's both too shameful and too transparent.

And you are trying both failed strategies simultaneously with your "protocals" absurdity. The spelling error makes it seem even more ludicrous, for some reason, as does asinine wording like "folks".

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Old 15th October 2017, 04:08 PM   #433
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The funny thing, folks, is that I thought I fixed that vitally important spelling error on the iPad.

Well, folks, thank goodness we have our sites on the big issues, not the small ones like racism and Know Nothing style Anti-Catholicism.
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Old 15th October 2017, 06:49 PM   #434
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The funny thing, folks, is that I thought I fixed that vitally important spelling error on the iPad.

Well, folks, thank goodness we have our sitessights on the big issues, not the small ones like racism and Know Nothing style Anti-Catholicism.
I would scarcely call criticizing half a century of covering up child molestation a "know nothing style of Anti-Catholicism." That and the terrible conditions in the homes for unwed mothers in Ireland. And the anti-gay stances, although that's not confined to just the Roman Catholics.

In addition, as one who was once an evangelical Christian, I look with some horror upon the Catholic Church's centuries of muddying up the plain and simple message of the Gospels as presented in the Bible. It's akin having a three hundred page rule book for Kuncklebones (Jacks), wherein one ends up with something that might be recognizable as jacks once all the layers have been stripped away.
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Old 15th October 2017, 07:17 PM   #435
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Know Nothing. A rabid anti catholic group from the 19th century.

Evangelicals attitudes toward Catholics explained why Catholics are number 3 on the KKK hit list, and why they are targets for such luminaries as Fred Phelps, Jack Chick, etc

Although they cannot really be blamed for the British Catholic genocides of the 19th century
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Old 15th October 2017, 07:48 PM   #436
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Big Dog, you do know that your butthurt fanboy act actually has a name, right?

It's called Whataboutism, and it was the darling propaganda method of the Soviet Union. When criticism was levelled at the Soviet Union or the Communist Party, the response would be some deflection to the tune of "What about the USA doing <insert something completely different>?" Hence the name. E.g., probably THE most used whataboutism was "And you are lynching blacks!!!" whenever someone from the west complained about, say, human rights violations in the USSR.

But here's the problem with such attempts at verbal shock and awe. They only really work the first time, before the fridge logic has time to kick in. Once you've heard them a thousand times before, the only one who's still confused is the one still using that sound bite.

And here's the thing: even your insistence on "but you're racist!!!", not only it's not new on these boards, but it seems like just a toned down version of that Soviet response to everything. It's just taken down a notch from outright claiming a lynching.

So in case you're still wondering why people still talk about the actual issue, instead of being shamed and silenced by your whataboutisms, well, that's why: we've heard it a thousand times before. Not only it's not new enough to shock, it was overused all the way back since the STALIN era. Yeah, that many decades. You're not even original, lemming.

So, basically, address the actuall topic or, shall we say, you can travel and copulate
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Old 15th October 2017, 07:58 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
Big Dog, you do know that your butthurt fanboy act actually has a name, right?

It's called...)
After that utterly, ridiculous opening sentence, it's called:

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Old 15th October 2017, 10:45 PM   #438
Craig B
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The funny thing, folks, is that I thought I fixed that vitally important spelling error on the iPad.

Well, folks, thank goodness we have our sites on the big issues, not the small ones like racism and Know Nothing style Anti-Catholicism.
Cynical "doubling down" I see. Even the "folks" has been repeated.

Well I suppose it's the only thing you can do, if you feel obliged to avoid confronting difficult questions. For some years the Church has been in disgrace over its moral and disciplinary failings. So let's shout "anti-Catholicism" when these are criticised. Is that the strategy?

To its credit, the leadership of the Church has shown signs recently of a more realistic attitude, confronting, and making some level of reparation for its past misdeeds. Quite right too, for that is what it instructed penitents to do to receive forgiveness for their sins.
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Old 15th October 2017, 11:08 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The funny thing, folks, is that I thought I fixed that vitally important spelling error on the iPad.

Well, folks, thank goodness we have our sites on the big issues, not the small ones like racism and Know Nothing style Anti-Catholicism.
<ahem> Sights, surely?
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Old 15th October 2017, 11:15 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
<ahem> Sights, surely?
He'll fix that too, don't worry.
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