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Old 6th February 2013, 05:57 AM   #361
Monketey Ghost
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The police and security have guns to facilitate arrests and for self defence. The UK police are unarmed, it is a reason why the citizens are not allowed to have a gun for self defence, in case they claim such against the police.

The presence of police and security is what deters crime.
Okay. Well, here in the U.S....
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Old 6th February 2013, 05:57 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
Criminals get their guns retail.

10-15% are stolen.

The rest they either buy themselves if they are able, buy from a private seller or at a gun show, buy from a straw purchaser, or buy from a corrupt dealer who will later report a theft.

If the retail gun market were only single-shot weapons and double-barreled shotguns, those would very quickly be all most criminals would be able to obtain.
That situation is a long way away and maybe not possible because of guns coming from Mexico.

I understand your argument, I just do not think it is practical and the priority is elsewhere.
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Old 6th February 2013, 06:03 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Xulld View Post
Why would it have been rescinded, do you know that he had been convicted of a crime or adjudicated mentally unstable? Do you actually know something specific about this mans past or are you just making stuff up that sounds nice?
His permit would have been rescinded after he threatened his family.

I am not making this up, it is how it works in the UK. All gun owners have a certificate. Commit a crime or make threats or be found to have a mental illness like PTSD and the certificate is rescinded and the guns seized. The gun owner can chose to surrender or appeal to the Sheriff Court to get it back.

A permit system with background checks, a five year renewal, no possession without a permit allowed (sentences are harsh with the recommended minimum 5 year) and a system to revoke and appeal such is easy to administer and helps to reduce the number of inappropriate people with a gun.
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Old 6th February 2013, 06:06 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
Okay. Well, here in the U.S....
....you have got it horribly wrong and should listen to countries where criminals, nuts and youths find it very, very difficult to get hold of guns, when they do they are punished severely and as a result have far lower gun crime rates than you do.
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Old 6th February 2013, 06:20 AM   #365
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Old 6th February 2013, 08:23 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The police and security have guns to facilitate arrests and for self defence. The UK police are unarmed, it is a reason why the citizens are not allowed to have a gun for self defence, in case they claim such against the police.

The presence of police and security is what deters crime.
I'd say it's the other way around, the Police are, for the most part, unarmed because the vast majority of people they deal with, law abiding or criminal are also unarmed. Of course armed Police will be there pretty damn quick if there is any suggestion of a gun involved, there is a lot to be said for the policy.
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Old 6th February 2013, 08:31 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I'd say it's the other way around, the Police are, for the most part, unarmed because the vast majority of people they deal with, law abiding or criminal are also unarmed. Of course armed Police will be there pretty damn quick if there is any suggestion of a gun involved, there is a lot to be said for the policy.
And Nessie has been doing a good job of saying it as calmly as possible in the face of people claiming that civilized society is impossible without the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 6th February 2013, 08:34 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Monketey Ghost View Post
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Old 6th February 2013, 08:45 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
And Nessie has been doing a good job of saying it as calmly as possible in the face of people claiming that civilized society is impossible without the 2nd Amendment.

I completely agree, if I appeared to be arguing against him that was not the intention. I am extremely happy to live in a country where the chances of facing a Bad Guy With A Gun are so low that even the vast majority of those who work in law enforcement are able to perform their duties without the need to carry firearms.
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Old 6th February 2013, 08:52 AM   #370
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We are just so damned civilised, what, what!
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Old 6th February 2013, 10:38 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by DC View Post
Nessie teased me and I teased back. It was light hearted on both sides; what have you got a problem with?
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Old 6th February 2013, 11:53 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The police and security have guns to facilitate arrests and for self defence. The UK police are unarmed, it is a reason why the citizens are not allowed to have a gun for self defence, in case they claim such against the police.

The presence of police and security is what deters crime.
Police in the UK most certainly do have guns, they just don't carry them on their patrols.
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Old 6th February 2013, 02:08 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by joesixpack View Post
Police in the UK most certainly do have guns, they just don't carry them on their patrols.
A small minority of UK police are authorised firearms officers and they do carry guns on patrol. Some police officers (and civilian employees) are authorised to check and deal with the licensing of firearms, so will sometimes have possession of firearms, but would never use them in any capacity. The rest have no access to or desire to have a gun.
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Old 6th February 2013, 07:15 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
And Nessie has been doing a good job of saying it as calmly as possible in the face of people claiming that civilized society is impossible without the 2nd Amendment.
Who the **** said that?
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Old 6th February 2013, 07:52 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
A small minority of UK police are authorised firearms officers and they do carry guns on patrol. Some police officers (and civilian employees) are authorised to check and deal with the licensing of firearms, so will sometimes have possession of firearms, but would never use them in any capacity. The rest have no access to or desire to have a gun.
what makes you an expert on what happens in the UK?
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Old 13th February 2013, 06:39 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
what makes you an expert on what happens in the UK?
From Nessie's posts it is fairly clear that he is, or has been, a police officer living and working in the UK for most of his life. This probably gives him a reasonable picture of life in the UK. Although I don't always agree with his posts, I do mainly agree with his depiction of the availability of guns in the UK.
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Old 13th February 2013, 06:54 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
what makes you an expert on what happens in the UK?
It also happens that in this case Nessie's post aligns with police opinion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_...United_Kingdom

Quote:
Surveys by the Police Federation of England and Wales have continued to show police officers' considerable resistance to routine arming. In the Federation's most recent (2006) Officer/Arming survey, 82% of respondents were against the routine arming of police, although 43% supported an increase in the number of officers trained and authorised to use firearms
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Old 13th February 2013, 08:06 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by triforcharity View Post
Who the **** said that?
You've been one of the more vocal ones making the claim.
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Old 13th February 2013, 11:56 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Multivac View Post
From Nessie's posts it is fairly clear that he is, or has been, a police officer living and working in the UK for most of his life. This probably gives him a reasonable picture of life in the UK. Although I don't always agree with his posts, I do mainly agree with his depiction of the availability of guns in the UK.
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
It also happens that in this case Nessie's post aligns with police opinion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_...United_Kingdom
It was a sarcastic post. I agree that Nessie knows quite a bit.
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Old 13th February 2013, 09:04 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
You've been one of the more vocal ones making the claim.
{Citation required}

Good luck sir. You want find it.
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Old 13th February 2013, 09:22 PM   #381
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On a more somber note, here is a photo of the casket for CPO Chris Kyle.

What you see scattered all over the lid, are the trident pins that come from a SEAL's uniform. The people attending the funeral will take them from their uniform, and set them on the coffin lid, and then pound them into the wood.

I've been to a SEAL's funeral, and it's quite somber and moving, though I am not sure why it is done.

Here's a brief view from another SEAL's funeral.

http://youtu.be/CfK2BQCIIes?t=8m28s

(This is from Michael Monsoor's funeral)
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Old 16th February 2013, 05:46 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That situation is a long way away and maybe not possible because of guns coming from Mexico.

I understand your argument, I just do not think it is practical and the priority is elsewhere.
Currently a lot of the gun traffic is the other direction. From the US to Mexico.
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http://www.oecd.org/els/health-syste...uesteddata.htmlink is 2013 data (2011 Data below):
UK 9.4% of GDP of which 82.8% is state expenditure = 7.8% of GDP from taxes
US 17.7% of GDP of which 47.2% is state expenditure = 8.5% of GDP from taxes
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Old 16th February 2013, 06:15 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Currently a lot of the gun traffic is the other direction. From the US to Mexico.
That would certainly turn around if guns were outlawed in the US. There is an illegal trade in a lot of things across borders. Weed is illegal in both countries currently yet it seems to flow across the border pretty easily.
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Old 18th February 2013, 08:10 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
It was a sarcastic post. I agree that Nessie knows quite a bit.
Sorry, my sarcasm detector must have been on the blink.
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