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Tags Benghazi , Benghazi attack , terrorism incidents

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Old 7th May 2013, 01:26 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
you are correct, the President order them to stand down thinking it would be great PR if Americans died.
Exactly. It's the same nonsense as 9/11. A malevolent presidential administration was indifferent to Americans in harms way and they did everything they could to have them die... or something. I don't know but its got CT written all over it.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:27 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
What's he going to say that he didn't say back in early April? And why didn't he say it then?
Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
False Dichotomy. Assumes facts

I'm fairly certain that you don't understand the process here.

Of course, you call a Congressional Hearing a Traveling Benghazi Circus.

So... yeah....
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
Why can't you answer my questions?
Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
I repeated my questions in the post you replied to. You not only still won't answer them, you pasted in a completely different question.
lol wut?

So your suggestion is that we NOT have the testimony, and you are interested in that for NON-PARTISAN reasons? lolz.

I already answered your question about the team that was ready willing and able to go to Benghazi, where Hicks said that they were down to the bare bones in security. You called his statement nonsense (in a non-partisan way, of course)
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:30 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
lol wut?
I noticed you subtly cut ANTPogo's question out of the quote.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:34 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by elbe View Post
I noticed you subtly cut ANTPogo's question out of the quote.
I didn't. He asked:

"What's he going to say that he didn't say back in early April? And why didn't he say it then?"

I replied:

"False Dichotomy. Assumes facts

I'm fairly certain that you don't understand the process here.

Of course, you call a Congressional Hearing a Traveling Benghazi Circus.

So... yeah...."

He asked:

"Why can't you answer my questions?"

Then he asked more questions that he had already asked and I already answered..

I replied to the bolded question. Was that wrong of me?
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:35 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Exactly. It's the same nonsense as 9/11. A malevolent presidential administration was indifferent to Americans in harms way and they did everything they could to have them die... or something. I don't know but its got CT written all over it.
Just so we are clear here, using your analogy, we never should have had the 911 Commission hearings?

Interesting.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:36 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
lol wut?

So your suggestion is that we NOT have the testimony, and you are interested in that for NON-PARTISAN reasons? lolz.
No, my suggestion is that there are no "new disclosures on Benghazi" whatsoever, and this whole farce is merely partisan hackery on Issa and the Republicans' part.

Quote:
I already answered your question about the team that was ready willing and able to go to Benghazi,
...and was armed only with 9mm pistols, and which wasn't set to leave Tripoli until 6:30 AM, and which there were concerns by the military that they might be needed to protect Embassy Tripoli (because Embassy Tripoli had sent six people that were protecting it to go help in Benghazi).

Quote:
where Hicks said that they were down to the bare bones in security.
Again, you don't know that. Hicks' quote as released does not specify whether he was referring to Benghazi or Tripoli.

And in any case, Benghazi had already been reinforced by that time.

Quote:
You called his statement nonsense (in a non-partisan way, of course)
I called his statement about the fighters "nonsense". You, strangely, seem to be conflating that with what I've said about the C-130 flight and the Special Forces men.
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Last edited by A'isha; 7th May 2013 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:37 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
That was some pretty well done ad hominems!
Pointing out a fact is not an ad hominem. Which of those facts do you assert is false, please?
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:37 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
I didn't. He asked:

"What's he going to say that he didn't say back in early April? And why didn't he say it then?"

I replied:

"False Dichotomy. Assumes facts

I'm fairly certain that you don't understand the process here.

Of course, you call a Congressional Hearing a Traveling Benghazi Circus.

So... yeah...."

He asked:

"Why can't you answer my questions?"

Then he asked more questions that he had already asked and I already answered..

I replied to the bolded question. Was that wrong of me?
Hmm, somehow I managed to assume ANT was talking about this question:
Quote:
Then what, exactly, is the issue with SOCAFRICA denying authorization for the four Special Forces soldiers in Tripoli to go on the 6:30 AM flight? Be specific.
It was asked in post 31, and then asked again in post 37 which you quoted from but cut out.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jj View Post
Pointing out a fact is not an ad hominem. Which of those facts do you assert is false, please?
Look up ad hominem fallacy. Thanks.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Then he asked more questions that he had already asked and I already answered.
No, you dodged them. Which is why I repeated them.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:41 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by elbe View Post
Hmm, somehow I managed to assume ANT was talking about this question:
And the one about what Hicks said about the fighters, which was also cut out and never answered.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:44 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Just so we are clear here, using your analogy, we never should have had the 911 Commission hearings?
Non-sequitur. Are you saying the fact that we had 911 hearings means that there is no such thing as 911 conspiracy theory? There are no truthers?
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:45 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
No, my suggestion is that there are no "new disclosures on Benghazi" whatsoever, and this whole farce is merely partisan hackery on Issa and the Republicans' part.



...and was armed only with 9mm pistols, and which wasn't set to leave Tripoli until 6:30 AM, and which there were concerns by the military that they might be needed to protect Embassy Tripoli (because Embassy Tripoli had sent six people that were protecting it to go help in Benghazi).



Again, you don't know that. Hicks' quote as released does not specify whether he was referring to Benghazi or Tripoli.

And in any case, Benghazi had already been reinforced by that time.



I called his statement about the fighters "nonsense". You, strangely, seem to be conflating that with what I've said about the C-130 flight and the Special Forces men.
...and was armed only with 9mm pistols, and which wasn't set to leave Tripoli until 6:30 AM, and which there were concerns by the military that they might be needed to protect Embassy Tripoli (because Embassy Tripoli had sent six people that were protecting it to go help in Benghazi).

"According to excerpts released Monday, Hicks told investigators that SOCAFRICA commander Lt. Col. Gibson and his team were on their way to board a C-130 from Tripoli for Benghazi prior to an attack on a second U.S. compound "when [Col. Gibson] got a phone call from SOCAFRICA which said, 'you can't go now, you don't have the authority to go now.'

Sounds like Gibson was locked and ready to go. Wasn't that his call?


"Again, you don't know that. Hicks' quote as released does not specify whether he was referring to Benghazi or Tripoli.:

So a plane LEAVING Tripoli going to Benghazi and you don't know what Hicks was referring to? That is laughable.

The Special Forces were going on the C-130.

SHUT DOWN THE HEARINGS!

Last edited by The Big Dog; 7th May 2013 at 01:55 PM. Reason: totally screwed up the formatting
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:47 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Non-sequitur. Are you saying the fact that we had 911 hearings means that there is no such thing as 911 conspiracy theory? There are no truthers?
NO, Randfan. I am saying the Congressional Hearings Tomorrow are comparable to the 911 Commission Hearings.

That should be pretty obvious.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:50 PM   #55
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If you want me to respond to you, you can use the quote function correctly.
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Old 7th May 2013, 01:51 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
If you want me to respond to you, you can use the quote function correctly.
Thanks, I'm cool sport. I fixed the formatting. Let me know if you have further trouble.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:00 PM   #57
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I'm still waiting for answers to the claim that the Administration is covering up Libya selling weapons to Turkey.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:00 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Call off the hearing although these guys have never testified under oath.
Are they scheduled to testify at the hearings? And why aren't any lawyers other than the partisan hacks who demanded that Scooter Libby get pardoned and that lied to Congress about Valerie Plame involved?

Quote:
Sounds like Gibson was locked and ready to go. Wasn't that his call?
If it was his call, he wouldn't have needed authorization, now would he? And considering that his group was just an advisory survey team armed with pistols, and Embassy Tripoli had just sent all of its own protection to Benghazi to assist there, what, exactly, is the issue with SOCAFRICA denying authorization for them to go on the 6:30 AM flight?

Quote:
So a plane LEAVING Tripoli going to Benghazi and you don't know what Hicks was referring to?
That's your inference. Hicks' quote is elided in the transcript, so we don't know. I'm curious as to why it was edited, and what the rest of his reply was.

Aren't you?
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:00 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
NO, Randfan. I am saying the Congressional Hearings Tomorrow are comparable to the 911 Commission Hearings.
What the hell are you talking about? Let's go back:

Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Exactly. It's the same nonsense as 9/11. A malevolent presidential administration was indifferent to Americans in harms way and they did everything they could to have them die... or something. I don't know but its got CT written all over it.

Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Just so we are clear here, using your analogy, we never should have had the 911 Commission hearings?

Interesting.
In my "analogy" there is nothing about hearings. I've not a clue what you are on about.
  • There can be hearings and conspiracy.
  • There can be hearings and no conspiracy.
One has nothing to do with the other. So, one more time, what in the sam hell are you talking about? Your questions and implications are very, very conspiratorial. IMO you are no different from a 9/11 truther. Hearings or no hearings changes absolutely nothing as to your implications. The singular fact that there are hearings doesn't make your theory true. The singular fact that there are hearings doesn't lend any credence to what looks to me amounts to nothing more than conspiracy theory.

From what I've seen to date Issa's "hearings" appear self serving.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:01 PM   #60
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Some additional details that are relevant.

Quote:
U.S. military officials confirmed late Monday that a four-man Special Operations Forces team was denied permission to leave the US Embassy in Tripoli following reports that the consulate in Benghazi had been attacked.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the team was reviewing security at U.S. embassies throughout the Middle East and was not prepared for a combat assault mission, being armed with only 9mm sidearms.

They also noted that the situation at Benghazi remained unclear and there were concerns the Embassy in Tripoli also could become a target.
My apologies if there were posted upthread. if they were, I missed it.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/arti...ood_Reasons%29
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:03 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
What the hell are you talking about? Let's go back:

In my "analogy" there is nothing about hearings. I've not a clue what you are on about.
  • There can be hearings and conspiracy.
  • There can be hearings and no conspiracy.
One has nothing to do with the other. So, one more time, what in the sam hell are you talking about? Your questions and implications are very, very conspiratorial. IMO you are no different from a 9/11 truther. Hearings or no hearings changes absolutely nothing as to your implications. The singular fact that there are hearings doesn't make your theory true. The singular fact that there are hearings doesn't lend any credence to what looks to me amounts to nothing more than conspiracy theory.

From what I've seen to date Issa's "hearings" appear self serving.
I'm talking about the Congressional Hearings. Tomorrow. Under Oath.

I am not talking about any conspiracy theories at all.

You are:

From what I've seen to date Issa's "hearings" appear self serving.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:09 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post

If it was his call, he wouldn't have needed authorization, now would he? And considering that his group was just an advisory survey team armed with pistols, and Embassy Tripoli had just sent all of its own protection to Benghazi to assist there, what, exactly, is the issue with SOCAFRICA denying authorization for them to go on the 6:30 AM flight?
"advisory survey team"? A what now? Gibson was locked and ready to go, he clearly felt his armament was sufficient. He was the boots on the ground, he was leading the mission. He was ready.

I understand that a source claims that they were armed only with 9mm sidearms.

Interesting! Thank GOD we are going to get to the bottom of this with the hearings tomorrow, right?
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:12 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
That's your inference. Hicks' quote is elided in the transcript, so we don't know. I'm curious as to why it was edited, and what the rest of his reply was.

Aren't you?
I am curious too! Thank god we can explore this new information during the Hearing Tomorrow!
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:18 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Gibson was locked and ready to go, he clearly felt his armament was sufficient. He was the boots on the ground, he was leading the mission. He was ready.
He was not on, nor was he prepared for, a combat mission.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
I am curious too! Thank god we can explore this new information during the Hearing Tomorrow!
I want to know why it was edited out of the released excerpts of his April testimony.

And I take it you're never going to answer my questions, then?
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:20 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
He was not on, nor was he prepared for, a combat mission.
And just because he was, I'm assuming, willing to go doesn't mean even he thought he was really prepared for it.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:20 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
I'm talking about the Congressional Hearings. Tomorrow. Under Oath.
And this has WHAT to do with what I said? Let me remind you of the sub thread one more time.

Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Exactly. It's the same nonsense as 9/11. A malevolent presidential administration was indifferent to Americans in harms way and they did everything they could to have them die... or something. I don't know but its got CT written all over it.

Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Just so we are clear here, using your analogy, we never should have had the 911 Commission hearings?

Interesting.
  • In the first post I give my opinion that your claims are conspiratorial.
  • In the second post you try to find a conclusion about the hearings from my post. That conclusion is a non-sequitur as far as I can tell.
So, I'll ask you one more time in the vain hope that you will explain to me what the hearings have to do with my original post about your claims being conspiratorial? Could you just focus on that? How do you go from my claim that you are being conspiratorial to the straw man about hearings?

Help me out?
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:31 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
I want to know why it was edited out of the released excerpts of his April testimony.

And I take it you're never going to answer my questions, then?
Which "transcript" are you using? Linky please. I've seen several versions.

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Old 7th May 2013, 02:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
  • In the first post I give my opinion that your claims are conspiratorial.
  • In the second post you try to find a conclusion about the hearings from my post. That conclusion is a non-sequitur as far as I can tell.
His second post is a straw man, built partially from appeal to incredulity and insinuated (false) relationships between items, with a taste of "correlation implies causation" and a bit of "well poisoning".

Please don't ask me what that has to do with his OP. I can't tell.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:33 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Which "transcript" are you using? Linky please. I've seen several versions.
The one linked in my very first reply in this thread.
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Old 7th May 2013, 02:38 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
The one linked in my very first reply in this thread.
ABC had a different quote.

I also want to know what was edited out of the transcript.

Hopefully they will cover this new information tomorrow.
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by jj View Post
His second post is a straw man, built partially from appeal to incredulity and insinuated (false) relationships between items, with a taste of "correlation implies causation" and a bit of "well poisoning".

Please don't ask me what that has to do with his OP. I can't tell.
I can't either and I have a feeling that my question isn't going to be answered.
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:07 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news...ng-attack?lite
Quote:
U.S. military officials confirmed late Monday that a four-man Special Operations Forces team was denied permission to leave the US Embassy in Tripoli following reports that the consulate in Benghazi had been attacked.

The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the team was reviewing security at U.S. embassies throughout the Middle East and was not prepared for a combat assault mission, being armed with only 9mm sidearms.

They also noted that the situation at Benghazi remained unclear and there were concerns the Embassy in Tripoli also could become a target.
I'm just going to point out here that the date (September the 11th) should have been enough to have back up security forces on a higher alert than "Only armed with 9mm sidearms". That alone is worth looking at more closely. Someone seriously dropped the ball on that and should have their feet held to the fire as to why that was.
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:08 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I can't either and I have a feeling that my question isn't going to be answered.
The answer is right there in the quote:

"Please don't ask me what that has to do with his OP. I can't tell."
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:16 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
I'm just going to point out here that the date (September the 11th) should have been enough to have back up security forces on a higher alert than "Only armed with 9mm sidearms". That alone is worth looking at more closely. Someone seriously dropped the ball on that and should have their feet held to the fire as to why that was.
I suspect it's a bit more complicated than just ignoring the risks. However, if there was negligence or malfeasance then you are right and I agree. It's too bad that the people who dropped the ball that resulted in the invasion of Iraq that resulted in the death of thousands of American service personnel never got their feet held to the fire. Not a tu quoque. Wrong is wrong. In the case of Iraq it was all predicated on lies and not simply dropping the ball. In that case there actually was a conspiracy to suppress the truth before anyone even died.
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:20 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
The answer is right there in the quote:

"Please don't ask me what that has to do with his OP. I can't tell."
How is my answer in his quote? Okay, one more time, let's go over it again.

Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
Exactly. It's the same nonsense as 9/11. A malevolent presidential administration was indifferent to Americans in harms way and they did everything they could to have them die... or something. I don't know but its got CT written all over it.

Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Just so we are clear here, using your analogy, we never should have had the 911 Commission hearings?

Interesting.
  • In the first post I give my opinion that your claims are conspiratorial.
  • In the second post you try to find a conclusion about the hearings from my post. That conclusion is a non-sequitur as far as I can tell.

What does the quote by JJ have to do with your conclusion about the hearings from my post? It's really not that difficult of a question and I've bulleted the premise and the conclusion. What is it that you are not understanding?
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:24 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by ANTPogo View Post
No, my suggestion is that there are no "new disclosures on Benghazi" whatsoever, and this whole farce is merely partisan hackery on Issa and the Republicans' part.
What? If you have someone who was on the ground at the time who hasn't yet given any testimony how can you possibly say that there ARE no new disclosures on Benghazi? You haven't even heard the testimony yet. You seem to be saying that you don't want to hear what the guy has to say because it might not fit into what you want to believe.
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:24 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
[*]In the first post I give my opinion that your claims are conspiratorial.
?
They are not my claims. They are Mr. Hicks.

I understand that you think they are a "conspiracy."

Feel free to take your "sub-thread" to the appropriate forum.

Thanks for posting.
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:26 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I suspect it's a bit more complicated than just ignoring the risks. However, if there was negligence or malfeasance then you are right and I agree. It's too bad that the people who dropped the ball that resulted in the invasion of Iraq that resulted in the death of thousands of American service personnel never got their feet held to the fire. Not a tu quoque. Wrong is wrong. In the case of Iraq it was all predicated on lies and not simply dropping the ball. In that case there actually was a conspiracy to suppress the truth before anyone even died.
But, but, but Iraq? Seriously? Take it to a different thread.
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Old 7th May 2013, 03:32 PM   #80
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Apologies to fellow conservatives, but this just Benghazi thing just isn't going to go anywhere. No proof of wrongdoing. No traction. No public interest. There's no "there" there.

The administration should rightly be criticized for trying to pin the blame on a YouTube video, which seems to have been done for political reasons.

But that's just politics. Not much of a scandal IMHO.

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