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Tags general discussion , Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues , US-Israel relations

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Old 7th August 2021, 07:56 PM   #1961
Michel H
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
By the way, the Green Line was erased in 1967.
It does not exist today.
This doesn't seem to be the point of view of most of the international community:
Quote:
The question of whether, or to what extent, Israel should withdraw its population and forces to its side of the Green Line remains a crucial issue in some discussions surrounding the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. There is a near-unanimous international consensus that Israel should withdraw to its side of the line. This has been expressed in the yearly UN General Assembly vote on the Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine.[23] Although disputed by Israel, United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (UNSC 242)[24] has declared the interpretation of international law regarding Palestinian Territory.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_...inian_conflict).

The international community should perhaps impose an arms embargo to Israel until it withdraws to its side of the Green Line.
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Old 8th August 2021, 01:07 AM   #1962
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
This doesn't seem to be the point of view of most of the international community:

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_...inian_conflict).

The international community should perhaps impose an arms embargo to Israel until it withdraws to its side of the Green Line.
Argument from popularity doesn’t suffice, and I already made my point about Wikipedia. And **** the OIC.
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Old 8th August 2021, 07:20 AM   #1963
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BREAKING NEWS: Palestine is broke.
International aid to the PA has been cut by more than 50% (apparently, international efforts to assist the Palestinians isn't a priority to most countries that have their own issues to deal with)
“Progress in areas of housing, water, energy, communications, agriculture, and natural resources, along with significantly easing Palestinian movement restrictions can be made while respecting Israel’s legitimate security needs.”
https://www.ynetnews.com/magazine/article/bkwn00btky

Fortunately, Israel now has a Palestinian minister (MK Esawi Freij) who is trying to get things moving in a positive direction for the Palestinian National Authority.
The problem is that the clock is ticking fast and the Palestinians are running out of options. The situation in the West Bank has deteriorated significantly during the last few months, following Abbas’ cancellation of elections, the 11-day war in Gaza, the killing of political activist Nizar Banat by PA security personnel near Hebron, and the economic hardship.
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Old 8th August 2021, 10:08 AM   #1964
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Iran is currently making additional bellicose statements --- Reports tonight from Tehran have indicated that IRGC head Hossein Salami has met the Hezbollah deputy and said that they should prepare for the “collapse” of Israel.

N.Korea is providing missile technology and nuclear-warhead capabilities to Iran.

It's one thing to defend our Jewish homeland, and ignore international pressure to 'stand down' from doing so, and quite another to create regional instability by threatening (and attacking) another UN member nation, as Iran is doing.
As opposed to the people already living there when your “homeland” was created.

By your logic, Iran is defending its Persian homeland from American, Israeli, Saudi and Emirati aggression. And Osama bin Laden just wanted non-Muslim occupiers out of the Islamic homeland.

Last edited by Allen773; 8th August 2021 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 8th August 2021, 10:13 AM   #1965
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Argument from popularity doesn’t suffice
Neither does argument from military force, occupation, and securitization.
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Old 8th August 2021, 10:46 AM   #1966
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Does Iran? Does North Korea?
No they do not.
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Old 8th August 2021, 11:16 AM   #1967
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Neither does argument from military force, occupation, and securitization.
You stick with what you think is best to protect your country; we'll stick to what we know works to protect Jews in ours.

Meanwhile, in Gaza, our neighboring PalestineState (in statu nascendi)
https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/ga...concert-676168
Bianco Resort, one of the Gaza Strip’s most luxurious seaside tourist sites, has been attacked with an explosive device. The reason? Men & women enjoying themselves TOGETHER!

Last edited by webfusion; 8th August 2021 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 8th August 2021, 11:28 AM   #1968
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
As opposed to the people already living there when your “homeland” was created.
Jewish life has never ceased in our homeland; there was a continuous presence here for millenia. Our entire theology revolves around this place. When the Muslims came over and conquered, taking what they wanted, raping, pillaging, murdering --- there was nothing we could do but keep our heads down, and hope for the best.

Those days of dhimmitude are done. DONE.
Get used to it.

Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
By your logic, Iran is defending its Persian homeland from American, Israeli, Saudi and Emirati aggression. And Osama bin Laden just wanted non-Muslim occupiers out of the Islamic homeland.
Iran may be about to start having to REALLY defend the Persian homeland, from the IAF:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/benny-...dy-attack-iran
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Old 8th August 2021, 11:31 AM   #1969
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In passing --- (a footnote to the discussion about marriages in Israel)
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/65...-report-676162
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Old 8th August 2021, 11:37 AM   #1970
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
...The international community should perhaps impose an arms embargo to Israel until it withdraws to its side of the Green Line.
Yeah, well, good luck with that. Your ideas are so far from reality, it's literally painful to see.

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Old 8th August 2021, 12:35 PM   #1971
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
This doesn't seem to be the point of view of most of the international community:

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_...inian_conflict).

The international community should perhaps impose an arms embargo to Israel
until it withdraws to its side of the Green Line.
Why not just cut to the chase and go full blockade until Israel conforms to all "international community" demands?
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Old 8th August 2021, 01:29 PM   #1972
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Why not just cut to the chase and go full blockade until Israel conforms to all "international community" demands?
Because there is nothing moral about the international community you refer to, or its demands. Nor are any similar demands being made, let alone enforced, by the international community against Hamas.
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Old 8th August 2021, 03:35 PM   #1973
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Why not just cut to the chase and go full blockade until Israel conforms to all "international community" demands?
This would be a little too hard, I think (think about vaccines and food, for example, and consequences for the Palestinians and the Arab Israelis).

However, I think it might actually be good to be tough with Israel until it withdraws from the occupied.

The world needs some rules, which are obeyed by all, and not just by those America doesn't like. It is difficult to blame Hamas when it fires some rockets, while, on the other hand, Israel can comfortably sit illegally in the West Bank and grab the best land for its settlers.

We do not like violence, but the concept of legitimate self-defense does exist in Law.

And, if you look at the Security Council resolutions, they are reasonable ("you cannot take territory by force and so on"), they have been designed by great experts and approved by great powers, they are not anti-semitic at all.

And they address indirectly the important issue of Palestinian poverty (related to Israeli occupations), either in Gaza or in the West Bank.

Last edited by Michel H; 8th August 2021 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 8th August 2021, 03:48 PM   #1974
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Yeah, well, good luck with that. Your ideas are so far from reality, it's literally painful to see.
Many Israelis might perhaps enjoy living in a different society, where there are not frequently rockets fired at them, from Gaza, Lebanon or other places.
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Old 8th August 2021, 04:08 PM   #1975
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Because there is nothing moral about the international community you refer to, or its demands. Nor are any similar demands being made, let alone enforced, by the international community against Hamas.
I agree, but at least it would be more honest as to the intentions of Israeli's "critics". I think the Israeli public are entitled to make their national decisions based as much transparency as possible.
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Old 8th August 2021, 04:13 PM   #1976
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Many Israelis might perhaps enjoy living in a different society, where there are not frequently rockets fired at them, from Gaza, Lebanon or other places.
Well, that is indeed the aim of terrorists, to dislodge us from this holy land.
Your support of that is appreciated (NOT).

In any case, many Israelis DO leave.
It's not easy being an Israeli. Wars & military (reserves) service, high commodity prices (most things are imported, we have few natural resources), widespread poverty, geographic isolation (cannot travel by private car North, South, East or West), the ever-present hot sun just toasting us (no rain from May to mid-October), and oh yeah, our political intrigues (image the last United States 2020 Election, which was a real barnburner, being done over and over and over, back to back, four times in a row, nonstop).

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...eals-1.5442809
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Old 8th August 2021, 04:14 PM   #1977
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
However, I think it might actually be good to be tough with Israel until it withdraws from the occupied.
Personally, I'd be more in favor of arguments like these if they were part of fair standards that were more objectively applied across the globe. As it stands, the focus on Israel tends to be disproportionate for a number of reasons, not least being how many of those countries trying to firmly focus the spotlight on human rights issues performed by just one faction in that specific disputed area of the world have their own serious human rights issues that go unaddressed by the same bodies that you hold up.

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
The world needs some rules, which are obeyed by all, and not just by those America doesn't like. It is difficult to blame Hamas when it fires some rockets, while, on the other hand, Israel can confortably sit illegally in the West Bank and grab the best land for its settlers.
No. It's not difficult at all, especially when many of those who condemn Hamas for its bad actions are also quite willing to condemn Israel when it does bad actions. I suspect that not as many people as you might think are under the illusion that Israel only does good things.

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
We do not like violence, but the concept of legitimate self-defense does exist in Law.
If that were all it was, that's one thing. It's not, and pretending that it is can only obscure the larger picture, which is plenty messy enough already to try to understand and navigate for those who would prefer a better future for all.
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Old 8th August 2021, 04:37 PM   #1978
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Well, that is indeed the aim of terrorists, to dislodge us from this holy land.
Let's assume Israel leaves the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and, thanks to this wise decision, rocket fire and terrorist attacks stop completely.

I think this would actually be a very good deal for Israel.

Quote:
In any case, many Israelis DO leave.
It's not easy being an Israeli. Wars & military (reserves) service, high commodity prices (most things are imported, we have few natural resources), widespread poverty, geographic isolation (cannot travel by private car North, South, East or West), the ever-present hot sun just toasting us (no rain from May to mid-October), and oh yeah, our political intrigues (image the last United States 2020 Election, which was a real barnburner, being done over and over and over, back to back, four times in a row, nonstop).

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...eals-1.5442809
Interesting.

And one thing to take into account also is that the wheather is constantly warming up, because of climate change.

My modest proposals could lead to much less military spending, so more money for solar panels, safe nuclear reactors and so on. Carbon dioxide could even be extracted from the atmosphere to cool it down.
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Old 8th August 2021, 04:47 PM   #1979
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
This would be a little too hard, I think (think about vaccines and food, for example, and consequences for the Palestinians and the Arab Israelis).
Why would it be too hard? The "international community" can allow what they deem necessary to flow into and out of Israel, according to their own political and ethical calculations. There were consequences visited upon many black SA by punitive international measures, but those were deemed necessary for the greater good. The anti-Zionist world claims an indescribable genocide has been perpetuated by Israel for over 70 years. That Jewish crimes in the Levant rival those of the Nazis. I believe those claims are ludicrous, but if the the IC truly believes them, then enough with half measures. Let's everyone put their cards on the table.
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Old 8th August 2021, 05:04 PM   #1980
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
This (full blockade) would be a little too hard, I think (think about vaccines and food, for example, and consequences for the Palestinians and the Arab Israelis).
Arab-Israelis ARE Palestinians.
You understand that, right?


Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
However, I think it might actually be good to be tough with Israel until it withdraws from the "occupied Palestinian lands."
Good? For who? You think that BDS is a good thing?
Aren't you forgetting that 1974 Palestinian Legislative document that specifically says:
"The Palestine Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated."
"The Liberation Organization will struggle against any proposal for a Palestinian entity the price of which is recognition, peace, secure frontiers, renunciation of national rights and the deprival of our people of their right to return and their right to self-determination on the soil of (ALL) their homeland."
https://iris.org.il/plophase.htm


Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
The world needs some rules, which are obeyed by all, and not just by those America doesn't like. It is difficult to blame Hamas when it fires some rockets, while, on the other hand, Israel can confortably sit illegally in the West Bank and grab the best land for its settlers.
Some rockets? How about thousands, and countless incendiary attacks setting our countryside on fire, all costing us hundreds of millions of $$$ to defend against?

Israel sat (un)comfortably on OUR lands, prior to occupying a millimeter of Gaza, Golan, and Judea/Samaria in 1967. We were still being attacked, and many Jews lost their lives to those ongoing efforts, despite there being NO occupation.

Your entire thesis is rejected.
I blame HAMAS.

TheWorld™ has a lot of problems beyond your nice, quiet Belgian borders.
Israeli Jews living in suburban enclaves is the least of these far-reaching problems.

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
We do not like violence, but the concept of legitimate self-defense does exist in Law.
So does the concept of "surrender and capitulation" --- which the Palestinians haven't really been asked by TheWorld™ to contemplate.
Guys like you keep providing excuses for them to continue the armed struggle, alongside their LAWFARE, all the while using the UN to leverage themselves into a State, without Israel's agreement.

The equation of the Abraham Accords has thrown a huge monkey wrench into that, and when Palestinians see the wealthy Arabs of Bahrain, et al. getting cozy with Israel, they are taking the hint.
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/...-israel-676139

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
And, if you look at the Security Council resolutions, they are reasonable ("you cannot take territory by force and so on"), they have been designed by great experts and approved by great powers, they are not anti-semitic at all.
TheWorld™ operates the way it operates.
The territory that Israel today occupies (Let's say, Gaza, Golan, Judea/Samaria) is only because Egpyt, Jordan, Syria lost five wars, and we got pretty darn sick of that routine.
So did Jordan and Egypt. (Syria is a basket case, so they just can't move in that direction, yet)
However, IF the surrounding Arab States had won, I doubt a PalestineState would even be discussed.
Beyond that, Israel has been quite willing to relinquish vast swaths of land (95% of the lands area of Judea/Samaria, and 100% of Gaza, IIRC) in exchange for peaceful relations.

Again, as I asked previously, what powers on earth do you propose intervene to dismantle our little Jewish State? Philippines? Honduras? Mexico? Belgium? Sudan? China?

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
And they address indirectly the important issue of Palestinian poverty (related to Israeli occupations), either in Gaza or in the West Bank.
Gaza never was viable. Not for hundreds of years prior to this 21st-century. When the limited presence of Jewish communities there (prior to 2005) brought a financial windfall to that salient (and the Gazans had plenty of work in the Jewish villages, as well as inside Israel) things were much better for these ex-Egyptians than at any point in their miserable hardscrabble history.
Birthrates rose, consumerism expanded (TV's, refrigerators, washing machines, cars, tractors, etc. -- along with the supply of electricity to power an economy).
HAMAS decided to bring an end to that, choosing instead war.
You ever hear the expression "Guns or Butter"? That's Gaza.

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Old 8th August 2021, 05:25 PM   #1981
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Let's assume Israel leaves the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and, thanks to this wise decision, rocket fire and terrorist attacks stop completely.
Both the PLO and HAMAS disagree completely with your assumption, and I'm quite sure they mean what they've been saying for decades, in every forum, in every instance:
https://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I think this would actually be a very good deal for Israel.
You think it's a good deal for Jews to go back to pre-1967 and return our holy sites to Islamic control, and be told, OK, now you can go pound sand, you ain't welcome anymore to set foot here, your presence is "defiling and filthy."

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
My modest proposals could lead to much less military spending, so more money for solar panels, safe nuclear reactors and so on. Carbon dioxide could even be extracted from the atmosphere to cool it down.
Israel is already a leader in solar.
Almost every home in Israel has solar panels on the rooftops.
https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/07/...w-reports-says


What is a 'Safe' nuclear reactor? Every one of those monsters generates waste-plutonium that needs to be safely STORED for 100's of thousands of years.
Would your country be OK with accepting that material and holding onto it?
I nominate Belgium to become the respository for all that ****.

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Old 8th August 2021, 05:51 PM   #1982
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
You think it's a good deal for Jews to go back to pre-1967 and return our holy sites to Islamic control, and be told, OK, now you can go pound sand, you ain't welcome anymore to set foot here, your presence is "defiling and filthy."

Interesting.
I remind you of my previous post:
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
The Dome of the Rock is located in East Jerusalem, so, in my opinion, it should be logically administered by the Palestinian Authority (or the Palestinian State). The Jews should, however be given access to the Temple Mount, given its religious importance in Judaism.

A good peace treaty should always be balanced, and not generate unjustified frustrations.
(http://www.internationalskeptics.com...0#post13561740).

See also this post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post13561838.

Quote:
Israel is already a leader in solar.
Almost every home in Israel has solar panels on the rooftops.
https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/07/...w-reports-says


What is a 'Safe' nuclear reactor? Every one of those monsters generates waste-plutonium that needs to be safely STORED for 100's of thousands of years.
Plutonium 239 can be recovered and used as fuel. The other isotopes need to be stored, but in only very small amounts. Or they can be used as fuel in fast neutron reactors.
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Old 8th August 2021, 05:57 PM   #1983
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
You think it's a good deal for Jews
Don’t presume to speak for all Jews. We’re talking about a nation-state and specifically its government, not a religion or group of people.
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Old 8th August 2021, 05:58 PM   #1984
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Anyway, the point about nuclear weapons is absurd because only one country in the Middle East actually has nuclear weapons and you’ll be shocked to know which one.
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Old 8th August 2021, 06:04 PM   #1985
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Gaza never was viable. Not for hundreds of years prior to this 21st-century. When the limited presence of Jewish communities there (prior to 2005) brought a financial windfall to that salient (and the Gazans had plenty of work in the Jewish villages, as well as inside Israel) things were much better for these ex-Egyptians than at any point in their miserable hardscrabble history.
For all the sanctimonious outrage about criticism of Israel being largely or exclusively motivated by anti-Semitism, there’s often an unfortunate lack of understanding about how racist and vile many people are toward the Palestinians. Here is an example.
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Old 8th August 2021, 06:11 PM   #1986
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One thing that I see inhibiting communication and understanding on this subject is the difference between those who emphasize the interests of nation-states and their respective military-security regimes and those who emphasize people and communities, specifically their rights, liberties, and dignity. I think a lot is illuminated by this difference.
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Old 8th August 2021, 08:24 PM   #1987
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
One thing that I see inhibiting communication and understanding on this subject is the difference between those who emphasize the interests of nation-states and their respective military-security regimes and those who emphasize people and communities, specifically their rights, liberties, and dignity. I think a lot is illuminated by this difference.
Maybe you have that luxury (whereever you live) to contemplate this (like contemplating your navel).

We (Israelis) don't live in an area where the surrounding people and communities have any idea what "rights, liberties and dignity" should be allowed of the Jews.
The contrary --- we are considered cockroaches, vermin, filth, scum, cancer, etc.

Yeah, I realize that this is a generalization.
But it applies to enough of our neighbors to make it true.

Which is why the Abraham Accords are so stunning to us.
It's a change in attitudes towards us in Arab capitals that we're not quite used to.
And, we Jews certainly welcome it!
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Old 8th August 2021, 08:28 PM   #1988
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
For all the sanctimonious outrage about criticism of Israel being largely or exclusively motivated by anti-Semitism, there’s often an unfortunate lack of understanding about how racist and vile many people are toward the Palestinians. Here is an example.
Can you point out how great Gaza was in the previous centuries?
Calling a spade a spade is not racism.

Also, just curious, but exactly when did the Egyptians of Gaza become "The Palestinians"?
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Old 8th August 2021, 08:30 PM   #1989
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Don’t presume to speak for all Jews. We’re talking about a nation-state and specifically its government, not a religion or group of people.
Yeah, the nation-state of/for Jews.
Religion is intertwined. Inseparably.
Maybe that's not the way you prefer things to be, but that's the way things ARE.
And will remain so for generations, if not millenia, to come.
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Old 8th August 2021, 09:43 PM   #1990
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Let's assume Israel leaves the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and, thanks to this wise decision, rocket fire and terrorist attacks stop completely.
Why on earth would we assume that? Every piece of evidence indicates that this is not what would happen.
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Old 9th August 2021, 12:00 PM   #1991
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The latest Israeli development in the "West Bank" --
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/is...-desert-676234


Last edited by webfusion; 9th August 2021 at 12:01 PM. Reason: added image
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Old 9th August 2021, 12:33 PM   #1992
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Jewish life has never ceased in our homeland; there was a continuous presence here for millenia. Our entire theology revolves around this place. When the Muslims came over and conquered, taking what they wanted, raping, pillaging, murdering --- there was nothing we could do but keep our heads down, and hope for the best.
Of course when it was the jews killing all the men boys and women and keeping the girls as rape slaves it was all good, because how dare they live in the land god gave you before you! Latter conquerors could have learned a thing or two from that policy.
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Old 9th August 2021, 01:31 PM   #1993
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course when it was the Jews killing all the men boys and women and keeping the girls as rape slaves it was all good, because how dare they live in the land god gave you before you! Latter conquerors could have learned a thing or two from that policy.
In other words, you have nothing really to contribute towards this current 21st-Century discussion?
OK, got it.
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Old 9th August 2021, 01:39 PM   #1994
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Neither does argument from military force, occupation, and securitization.
Good thing nobody's arguing from those, then. Arguing to them, perhaps, from some other premise.
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Old 9th August 2021, 03:31 PM   #1995
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
One thing that I see inhibiting communication and understanding on this subject is the difference between those who emphasize the interests of nation-states and their respective military-security regimes and those who emphasize people and communities, specifically their rights, liberties, and dignity. I think a lot is illuminated by this difference.
That anyone who disagrees with you on IP are vulgar brutes while you walk with the angels?
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Old 9th August 2021, 03:38 PM   #1996
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Why on earth would we assume that? Every piece of evidence indicates that this is not what would happen.
Think about it.

What would be the point of (still) using violence if the Palestinians got all they are entitled to?
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Old 9th August 2021, 03:51 PM   #1997
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Think about it.

What would be the point of (still) using violence if the Palestinians got all they are entitled to?
The Palestinians are 'entitled' to nothing.
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Old 9th August 2021, 03:59 PM   #1998
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Think about it.

What would be the point of (still) using violence if the Palestinians got all they are entitled to?
Why would militant groups in Gaza halt operations because Israel left the wb? They didn't even do that when Israel left Gaza.
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Old 9th August 2021, 04:01 PM   #1999
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
Think about it.

What would be the point of (still) using violence if the Palestinians got all they are entitled to?
Some Palestinians think they are entitled to everything that is current called Israel. So there's no reason to expect the violence to end before they get all that. Indeed, giving them *any* of that - sends the clear message that they should keep using more and more violence to get more and more of the total of what they want.
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Old 9th August 2021, 04:23 PM   #2000
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
Why would militant groups in Gaza halt operations because Israel left the wb? They didn't even do that when Israel left Gaza.
What happened in Gaza during the recent Gaza war (in May 2021) was actually closely related to events in East Jerusalem:
Quote:
The crisis was triggered[33] on 6 May, when Palestinians began protests in East Jerusalem over an anticipated decision of the Supreme Court of Israel on the eviction of six Palestinian families in Sheikh Jarrah.[34] Under international law, the area, effectively annexed by Israel, is a part of the occupied Palestinian territories.[35][36] Israel applies its laws there.[35][36] On 7 May, according to Israel's Channel 12, Palestinians threw stones at Israeli police forces,[37] who then stormed the compound of the al-Aqsa Mosque[38] using tear gas, rubber bullets and stun grenades.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_I...lestine_crisis).

This means that, if Israel had given back East Jerusalem to Palestine (which they should have done a long time ago) to comply with international law, there is reasonable ground to think that this conflict simply wouldn't have occurred.
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