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Tags general discussion , Israel issues , Israel-Palestine conflict , Palestine issues , US-Israel relations

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Old 11th October 2021, 10:56 AM   #2241
webfusion
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speaking of Iran fanning flames ----

"Iran, which has dispatched proxies and built armies to surround the State of Israel, aspires to build yet another army (in Syria) on the border of the Golan Heights," PM Bennett said to reporters during a media conference.
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Old 11th October 2021, 11:08 AM   #2242
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
...conducted by Ashkenazi Jews

Huh?
I'm as confused as you are...

I've heard of them before, but I'm not sure what relevance they have to do with anything here.
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Old 11th October 2021, 11:17 AM   #2243
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
Iran opposes Israel for many reasons, anti-Semitism being a big one obviously, but also because Israel is an American ally. The Iranians furthermore support Palestinians as a way to establish street cred with Arabs, including Sunni Muslims (and Arab Christians and others too) and others internationally who oppose Israel or Israeli government policy, at least. Especially since a lot of Arab regimes have essentially abandoned the Palestinians (see: the Abraham Accords). And it also makes the Palestinians more dependent on Iran and its allies (Syria, Hezbollah), which is useful for Iranian influence in the region.

Itís not merely anti-Semitism. Itís smart geopolitics from Iranís perspective.
Quote:
Iran opposes Israel for many reasons, anti-Semitism being a big one obviously
No, I don't think so, I don't believe Iran is antisemitic, you should read this:
Quote:
Iranís Jewish community is the largest in the Mideast outside Israel Ė and feels safe and respected

In a nation that has called for Israel to be wiped off the face of the Earth, the Iranian government allows thousands of Jews to worship in peace and continue their association with the country founded more than 2,500 years ago.
(https://eu.usatoday.com/in-depth/new...ate/886790002/).

Quote:
The Iranians furthermore support Palestinians as a way to establish street cred with Arabs, including Sunni Muslims (and Arab Christians and others too) and others internationally who oppose Israel or Israeli government policy, at least. Especially since a lot of Arab regimes have essentially abandoned the Palestinians (see: the Abraham Accords).
This is a good point, I think. I agree.

Helping the Palestinians may be good for Iran's international reputation and prestige, especially in Arab countries.

However, the way Iran does this (providing rockets to Hamas, and threatening Israel) is probably not the most effective way to help the Palestinians and should be improved, in my opinion.
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Old 11th October 2021, 11:25 AM   #2244
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That's a great article and cleared up some misconceptions I had about Iran as well.

Looks like Jews are treated far better in Iran than Palestinians are in Israel and the occupied territories.

Definitely lends evidence to the theory that Iran's antagonism is much more about self-interest than bigotry.
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Old 12th October 2021, 11:18 AM   #2245
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Irish author Sally Rooney in Israel boycott row

Quote:
Sally Rooney said she supported "the Palestinian people in their struggle for freedom, justice and equality".

Irish author Sally Rooney is at the centre of a controversy after refusing to allow her new book to be translated into Hebrew by an Israeli company.

The acclaimed writer said it was in support of calls to boycott Israel over its policies towards the Palestinians.
(https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-58886915).
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Old 12th October 2021, 01:08 PM   #2246
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It will be translated into Hebrew anyway.

This is the modern equivalent of Nazi book-burning. Shanda on Sally.
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Old 12th October 2021, 02:07 PM   #2247
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
It will be translated into Hebrew anyway.

This is the modern equivalent of Nazi book-burning. Shanda on Sally.
I don't think her book could be legally published in Hebrew without her permission. She says in the BBC article:
Quote:
The Hebrew-language translation rights to my new novel are still available, and if I can find a way to sell these rights that is compliant with the BDS movement's institutional boycott guidelines, I will be very pleased and proud to do so.
.

I wouldn't say shanda (https://jel.jewish-languages.org/words/499) to Sally Rooney, but congratulations for supporting the weak, persecuted and forgotten.

Israel could easily fix this thing (and others similar) without self-harm.
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Old 12th October 2021, 02:14 PM   #2248
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
I don't think her book could be legally published in Hebrew without her permission.
Her book will be made available to the Hebrew-speaking Israeli market, no doubt about it.

Ve haff vays.
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Old 12th October 2021, 02:55 PM   #2249
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Her book will be made available to the Hebrew-speaking Israeli market, no doubt about it.

Ve haff vays.
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/ve+haf+vays
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Old 12th October 2021, 03:24 PM   #2250
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Her book will be made available to the Hebrew-speaking Israeli market, no doubt about it.

Ve haff vays.
Well, the Israelis are pretty good at stealing land, so I'm pretty sure they can steal a book.
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Old 12th October 2021, 03:49 PM   #2251
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"Steal This Book" --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steal_This_Book
Hoffman was forced to make a publishing company of his own, Pirate Editions, to sell the book...

Last edited by webfusion; 12th October 2021 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:03 AM   #2252
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
It will be translated into Hebrew anyway.

This is the modern equivalent of Nazi book-burning. Shanda on Sally.
It probably will end up getting translated into Hebrew because the author is not opposed to this, she simply refused to give the business to an Israeli company as part of a larger Boycott, Divest, and Sanction stance.

Another story in which intentionally sloppy reporting of an anti-Zionist stance is being deliberately conflated with general anti-Semitism.
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:09 AM   #2253
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It probably will end up getting translated into Hebrew because the author is not opposed to this, she simply refused to give the business to an Israeli company as part of a larger Boycott, Divest, and Sanction stance.

Another story in which intentionally sloppy reporting of an anti-Zionist stance is being deliberately conflated with general anti-Semitism.
We know that BDS is lying when they say their aim is to get Israel to withdraw from the W-B.
Their aim is to get Israel to collapse. To cease to exist.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/314965

Their website states they intend to work towards reclaiming "ALL ARAB LANDS"
https://bdsmovement.net/call
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Old 13th October 2021, 06:58 AM   #2254
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
We know that BDS is lying when they say their aim is to get Israel to withdraw from the W-B.
Their aim is to get Israel to collapse. To cease to exist.

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/314965

Their website states they intend to work towards reclaiming "ALL ARAB LANDS"
https://bdsmovement.net/call
No, there is a difference between "all arab lands" and "all of Palestine" (as a geographic region, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)).

The BDS movement website says:
Quote:
These non-violent punitive measures should be maintained until Israel meets its obligation to recognize the Palestinian people's inalienable right to self-determination and fully complies with the precepts of international law by:

1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality
...
As you can see, Israel is mentioned, they do not seek to destroy Israel. There would be no basis in international law for such an attempt.
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Old 13th October 2021, 07:14 AM   #2255
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
No, there is a difference between "all arab lands" and "all of Palestine" (as a geographic region, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)).
You are completely wrong, 100% incorrect, why are you continuing to foist this garbage upon us?

HAMAS, the government of Gaza (a part of Palestine) views all of Israel, as Arab lands, every last centimeter of it. They do not concede any part of it for the Jews to control/have sovereignty within. This is not in question, and is a fundamental ideology.

So, OK, that leaves the Palestinian National Authority, with FATAH/PLO as their primary component.
They operate (according to Arafat's own words) to ultimately implement the 1974 Phased Program of the PNC (Palestinian National Council) -- which states, inter-alia:

"Once it is estabished, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory, and as a step along the road to comprehensive Arab unity."


Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
As you can see, Israel is mentioned, they do not seek to destroy Israel. There would be no basis in international law for such an attempt.
Israel is mentioned by HAMAS in their founding Covenant.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it"

What do you perceive this to mean? Do you have any clue?

BDS is not interested in what you claim it represents.
BDS is, without question, seeking to make Israel (as a functioning state) untenable, by depriving it of resources, of access to the world, of money, of cultural development, of investments, of military procurement, of cooperation with any entities.

The Arab Boycott of the 1950's 1960's and 1970's was a precursor to BDS.
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Old 13th October 2021, 07:41 AM   #2256
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
As you can see, Israel is mentioned, they do not seek to destroy Israel. There would be no basis in international law for such an attempt.
It's funny that you think they care.
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Old 13th October 2021, 08:44 AM   #2257
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
HAMAS, the government of Gaza (a part of Palestine) views all of Israel, as Arab lands, every last centimeter of it. They do not concede any part of it for the Jews to control/have sovereignty within. This is not in question, and is a fundamental ideology.
I don't know why you are talking about Hamas here, I thought we were talking about BDS which is in principle "non-violent".

Israel has much improved its position in the world since 1967. It seems to me it has now become so strong that it could make some important concessions, without endangering itself.
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Old 13th October 2021, 09:31 AM   #2258
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BDS supports the HAMAS (political) program. Why would you think otherwise?

It seems to me that Palestinian President Abbas could go to the Israelis and request some concessions in negotiations. He has refused to do that for many years.

In fact, both the Palestinian Authority (PA) based in the occupied West Bank and HAMAS, which governs Gaza, agreed to form a joint leadership group called the Unified National Leadership for Popular Resistance.

In other words, not to work towards peace, but to intensify the rejection of Israel and continue trying to dislodge the Jews from our State.

People like Sally Rooney will gladly assist them, unfortunately.
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Old 13th October 2021, 05:26 PM   #2259
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MichelH highlights the following in the BDS call to action:
(Let's leave aside the 1st one, demanding Israel relinquish ALL ARAB LANDS -- not 1967 lands, but 1937 lands) and let's also not get into the 3rd point, namely that pesky 'Right Of Return' for all refugees and their descendants today, numbering in their tens of millions worldwide).
I want to focus on #2 exclusively, and see if it is a legitimate demand -----

"Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality"

I want to point out the Israeli Declaration of Independence

THE STATE OF ISRAEL will ...foster the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; it will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel; it will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; etc.
WE APPEAL ó in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months ó to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.


This is the official position of the Jewish people in Eretz Yisrael, then as well as now.

Why would BDS consider that they need to work to punish us, when we already recognize exactly what they ask for in this specific instance?
Is there room for improvement? Sure, no doubt.
Is there value in asking for better conditions and higher consideration for the non-Jewish inhabitants? Absolutely.
But to demand that we be isolated, boycotted, sanctioned, financially targeted, and otherwise castigated throughout the world? Sorry, it doesn't seem reasonable.

There are other means, let's try and find them, and stop making things worse by following BDS.

Ben and Jerry, are you paying attention?
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Old 13th October 2021, 09:13 PM   #2260
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I support BDS as a concept, though I admit I'm lazy when I'm shopping and don't really care which country the goods I buy are made in. So I never check.

I don't think it will really get anywhere, which is why I support withdrawing all US aid, support, and contracts until the Israelis find a way to either respect the sovereignty of Palestine or find a way to live in a unified state.

Both parties are in the pockets of the Israeli lobbyists in Congress like AIPAC, so I don't see this happening.
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Old 13th October 2021, 10:50 PM   #2261
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respect the sovereignty of Palestine --- where are the boundaries of this so-called "Palestine" you speak of? Can you point to any official document or legal definition of what lands "Palestine" consists of? When did this "Palestine" achieve any sovereignty over specific territory? What makes you think that "Palestine" deserves statehood alongside Israel, in any case?

AIPAC does not utilize Israeli lobbyists, by the way. They are American citizens, who have very deep-felt opinions about the mistreatment that Israel has faced for decades at the hands of Palestinian terrorists ("freedom fighters" if you want) and they are doing what they can to offset those vast amounts of money and political power at the UN wielded by enemy nations surrounding Israel. (I.E. - Saudi Arabia, etc.)

This thread is 57 pages long, while it has covered every aspect of the situation, and, yeah, I can confidently say, the resolution of this conflict ain't on the horizon.

So, US aid (such as Iron Dome) is much appreciated so we can survive in the meantime, until the Palestinian Arabs realize they really need to surrender. Yes, surrender.
They can, you know. They can lay down their weapons, demilitarize their society, and be just fine.
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Old 13th October 2021, 11:11 PM   #2262
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Personally I see all the land Israel has invaded and occupied as Palestinian territory. But I'm not against Israel's existence, as long as they no longer subjugate the Palestinians both inside and outside their borders. Much like how I feel about our treatment of the Native Americans here. We can't right the wrongs of the past, but we can at least give them back their rightful land.

By 'Israeli lobbyists', I didn't mean lobbyists who are actually Israeli, but Americans who prioritize Israel's interests over our own country. Iron Dome is a waste of money and should be scrapped, and you should know well by now that the Palestinians will never surrender as long as you occupy their land.

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Old 13th October 2021, 11:36 PM   #2263
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Iron Dome is a waste of money and should be scrapped
Iron Dome saves lives. The fact that you call that a waste of money is damning.

Quote:
and you should know well by now that the Palestinians will never surrender as long as you occupy their land.
Hamas considers all of Israel to be their land. How exactly do you reconcile that with your contention that Israel has a right to exist?
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Old 14th October 2021, 06:10 AM   #2264
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Personally I see all the land of Israel h as invaded and occupied Palestinian territory.
FTFY

Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
But I'm not against Israel's existence, as long as they no longer subjugate the Palestinians both inside and outside their borders. Much like how I feel about our treatment of the Native Americans here. We can't right the wrongs of the past, but we can at least give them back their rightful land..
This was the entire rationale of the super-powers on earth making the effort to provide Jews with a homeland in our ancestral homeland, which according to all three monotheistic religions, is our rightful place. You can mock these core values; you can disagree there is any rational reason for these beliefs; you can argue that religion is silly; you can take the Torah and wipe your ass with the parchments ---- but those billions of Christians, Jews, and Muslims worldwide still cling to the tenets of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob(aka 'Israel'), and those tenets indicate the Hebrews are the "Native Israelis" -- not Palestinians.

Why do you think there is conflict over the Temple Mount? Because under the gleaming golden-domed shrine sits the Foundation Stone of Judaism (the traditional site of Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac at the alter to God)
That place was co-opted, first by the Byzantine invaders (al-Aqsa Mosque at the southern part of the raised compound was an old Church, later converted by the Islamic invaders to suit their narratives).


Quote:
By 'Israeli lobbyists', I didn't mean lobbyists who are actually Israeli, but Americans who prioritize Israel's interests over our own country.
The dollars spent on Israeli defense procurements (including TAMIR interceptor rockets) is funneled back into the coffers of American companies, who employ American workers. If you desire to break apart the military-industrial complex of America, well, it's certainly your prerogative to demand that. However, it is also the right (and I would say, duty) of other Americans to oppose your position of disarming & abandoning our ally. That goes not only for Israel, but Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Guam, Japan, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and other strategic interests.


Quote:
Iron Dome is a waste of money and should be scrapped, and you should know well by now that the Palestinians will never surrender as long as you occupy their land.
I know no such thing.
Japan surrendered. Germany surrendered.
What makes the Palestinian armed struggle so vital for their own best interests? Maybe they should raise the white flag, and go in another direction? Yassir Arafat seemed to be headed in that direction, at least on paper, as he signed various agreements with Israel to cease violence.

And here we are.
And so it goes....

Last edited by webfusion; 14th October 2021 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 14th October 2021, 06:20 AM   #2265
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What's wrong with declaring peace and drawing some borders.

Until that happens, it's a might makes right situation, and Israel is entitled to all the land they can take.
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Old 14th October 2021, 06:58 AM   #2266
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
What's wrong with declaring peace and drawing some borders.
Sounds good. Israel has done precisely that, with Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon and even with Syria (UN-supervised along the cease-fire lines -- see UNDOF).

Gaza borders are well-defined, and peaceful. Well, primarily peaceful, until HAMAS decides otherwise!
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-c...th-gaza-681993


Quote:
Until that happens, it's a might makes right situation, and Israel is entitled to all the land they can take.
Israel has withdrawn from lands that it took in 1967.
Even returning a salient of Egyptian-claimed land at TABA, Sinai (which had a very successful and profitable Hilton Resort/Casino popular with Israeli tourists).
Jordan was just granted by Israel an increased water allocation, beyond their existing peace-treaty agreements.

But, why go with facts, when innuendo and snark can be used instead?
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Old 14th October 2021, 01:32 PM   #2267
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post

Israel has withdrawn from lands that it took in 1967.
I missed that whole thing, I was vacationing in the Boundary Waters for the whole war.


Originally Posted by webfusion View Post

But, why go with facts, when innuendo and snark can be used instead?
The point was that it takes both sides to draw up the borders, something that was supposed to happen a while ago, somebody is not coming to the table.

Losing wars have consequences.

I wasn't directing the snark at you.
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Old 15th October 2021, 01:47 AM   #2268
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Yeah, I don't care about your Israeli propaganda, thanks.

And I agree with the assessment here. All the land Israel has occupied was stolen from either the Palestinians or neighboring countries.

That's why I support a unified Israeli/Palestinian state. Israel is here to stay, so we need to make sure the Palestinians have an equal say in their society if the Israelis want to keep invading and occupying their neighboring Palestinian territories.
Please define 'Palestinians', in the context of the highlighted.
Also, your statement regarding occupied lands is a little unclear. Do you mean the State of Israel was founded on lands stolen from neighbouring countries, or are you just referring to the Golan Heights and the West Bank?
One more question: what is your position on Jordan?
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Old 15th October 2021, 01:50 AM   #2269
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Bwahahahahaha!

No. They don't actually give a **** about the suffering of "fellow" Muslims.

Don't believe me? Just look at their indifference to China's treatment of the Uyghers.
I think the situation with the Kurds is even more relevant.
The Kurds have far more of a claim to be a separate and distinct people than the Palestinian Arabs, yet they are being savagely oppressed by their fellow Muslims, and not a word is said about their claim to statehood and self-determination.
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Old 15th October 2021, 07:38 AM   #2270
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I think the situation with the Kurds is even more relevant.
The Kurds have far more of a claim to be a separate and distinct people than the Palestinian Arabs, yet they are being savagely oppressed by their fellow Muslims, and not a word is said about their claim to statehood and self-determination.
Well, that's a bit different because their oppressors are also Muslims, and that's OK because of reasons. But the Chinese are infidels, and infidels shouldn't be allowed to oppress Muslims. Only other Muslims get to do that.

Unless it's convenient to let infidels oppress Muslims, then it's OK again.
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Old 16th October 2021, 01:26 AM   #2271
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Well, that's a bit different because their oppressors are also Muslims, and that's OK because of reasons. But the Chinese are infidels, and infidels shouldn't be allowed to oppress Muslims. Only other Muslims get to do that.

Unless it's convenient to let infidels oppress Muslims, then it's OK again.
Indeed.
I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that so much of the focus is on the treatment of the Palestinian Arabs by Jews.
The Egyptian blockade of Gaza, for example, rarely gets the same amount of coverage. Likewise, the use of human shields by Hamas.
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Old 16th October 2021, 05:04 AM   #2272
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Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
No, there is a difference between "all arab lands" and "all of Palestine" (as a geographic region, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_(region)).

The BDS movement website says:

As you can see, Israel is mentioned, they do not seek to destroy Israel. There would be no basis in international law for such an attempt.
The BDS website does indeed talk about 'all Arab lands'.
What it pointedly fails to do is to specify exactly what that means. For some, that will mean Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. For others, that will mean all land currently under Israeli control, including Israel itself.
Given the enormous significance of this definition, I find it suspicious that they have not said what they mean. It may simply mean that they want to get as many people and groups on board with their mission as possible, or it may mean they really do want the destruction of Israel, but are too canny to state it out loud. Either way, it looks like deliberate dishonesty to me.
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Old 16th October 2021, 05:13 AM   #2273
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Originally Posted by Boudicca90 View Post
Personally I see all the land Israel has invaded and occupied as Palestinian territory.
Really?
The Golan Heights? The Syrians might be a little put out to hear you describe them as Palestinian land.
The West Bank? Was part of the Ottoman Empire, then the British Mandate, then it was annexed by Jordan. When do you claim it was 'Palestinian', in the sense you mean of 'Palestinian Arab'?
Gaza? Ditto, apart from being occupied by Egypt. When was that ever part of a Palestinian Arab state?
You see, your personal feelings about this are not really that relevant, nor do they appear to be based on historical fact. Now, you are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but one of the reasons this conflict has gone on for so long is that these kinds of opinions continue to muddy the waters and inflame passions, so that the actual, historical facts get lost amid all the emotions and the entrenched opinions. It is also a fact that both sides, but mainly (from what I've seen) the Palestinian Arab side, deliberately use this as a means of prolonging the conflict and increasing the partisan hatred. This is a trap to avoid, I think, if we are ever going to find a solution.
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Old 16th October 2021, 05:23 AM   #2274
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
The BDS website does indeed talk about 'all Arab lands'.
What it pointedly fails to do is to specify exactly what that means. For some, that will mean Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan Heights. For others, that will mean all land currently under Israeli control, including Israel itself.
Given the enormous significance of this definition, I find it suspicious that they have not said what they mean. It may simply mean that they want to get as many people and groups on board with their mission as possible, or it may mean they really do want the destruction of Israel, but are too canny to state it out loud. Either way, it looks like deliberate dishonesty to me.
Interestingly enough, several years ago the same page had a slightly different version of this part of their demands. The sentence in question had a 'qualifier' that limited the lands to "occupied in 1967" ---- although that limitation was only in the English translation (all other languages had what we now see: "ALL ARAB LANDS" without the mention of 1967).

Anyway, they dropped that other version, and now it says what it says.
I am sure you are right, they tried to obfuscate their true intentions and appeal to an audience that would accept the "withdraw to 1967 Borders" concept.
However, somewhere along the line, that had to be dropped from the BDS website, because too many of the Palestinian groups involved complained that "ALL" is indeed what they want, so just come out and say it, without prevaricating.

It ain't called the PLO for nuttin'
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Old 16th October 2021, 05:47 AM   #2275
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Really?
The Golan Heights? The Syrians might be a little put out to hear you describe them as Palestinian land.
The West Bank? Was part of the Ottoman Empire, then the British Mandate, then it was annexed by Jordan. When do you claim it was 'Palestinian', in the sense you mean of 'Palestinian Arab'?
Gaza? Ditto, apart from being occupied by Egypt. When was that ever part of a Palestinian Arab state?
You see, your personal feelings about this are not really that relevant, nor do they appear to be based on historical fact. Now, you are, of course, entitled to that opinion, but one of the reasons this conflict has gone on for so long is that these kinds of opinions continue to muddy the waters and inflame passions, so that the actual, historical facts get lost amid all the emotions and the entrenched opinions. It is also a fact that both sides, but mainly (from what I've seen) the Palestinian Arab side, deliberately use this as a means of prolonging the conflict and increasing the partisan hatred. This is a trap to avoid, I think, if we are ever going to find a solution.
There is an article published yesterday in IsraelNationalNews, byline Melanie Phillips, that covers this subject eloquently and truthfully.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/N...ws.aspx/315126
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Old 23rd October 2021, 05:43 PM   #2276
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An 'Open Letter' to Sally Rooney
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/s1yix8e8k
My name is Ornit Cohen-Barak and I edit a literary series in which "Conversations with Friends" and "Normal People" were published in Hebrew translation...I admit I was surprised by your recent decision (to not go forward with a Hebrew version of her latest book) as there is a difference between legitimate criticism of Israel's policy and an outright cultural boycott...Not only does a cultural boycott fail to advance your expressed cause, it in fact, does the exact opposite...
As to your claim that you would be "proud" to see a Hebrew translation conducted under a special kind of process you invented, in which "rights were sold in a manner consistent with the institutional boycott guidelines of the BDS movement" - with all due respect, this is an unattainable proposition and therefore meaningless.
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Old 24th October 2021, 10:39 PM   #2277
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One-state solution with Palestinians fully integrated into it as equals.
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Old 25th October 2021, 07:19 AM   #2278
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
One-state solution with Palestinians fully integrated into it as equals.
What's that supposed to mean?

Are you saying this is what YOU think the outcome should be? Are you saying that this is the inevitable outcome? Are you saying that this is what Palestinians are demanding?

In any case, it's never going to happen.
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Old 25th October 2021, 06:36 PM   #2279
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
One-state solution with Palestinians fully integrated into it as equals.
You people sure love your "solutions", don't you?
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Old 25th October 2021, 06:43 PM   #2280
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Originally Posted by Allen773 View Post
One-state solution with Palestinians fully integrated into it as equals.
Why on earth would anyone want to include extortionists in their society?

Have you even thought this through? The moment someone promises violence until they get what they want is the moment I'm resolved to put them all under the earth, or die trying.
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