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Tags crickets , Cuba conspiracies , Cuba incidents , havana syndrome , mass hysteria , microwave weapons , sonic weapons , US-Cuba relations

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Old 22nd November 2021, 11:56 PM   #1121
dann
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
I don't know if you follow 9/11 conspiracy theories, but "directed energy weapons" bringing down the twin towers was one of the crazier theories.

Weapons you can't see, hear, or trace.

No, I hadn't heard that one, but I can see that it's popular on Amazon.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 23rd November 2021, 11:46 AM   #1122
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Gang Stalking

Joe Pierre M.D. has a very interesting mini-series of articles on Psychology Today about Gang Stalking, a delusion I had never heard of until now, but it seems to even more widespread than the 'Havana Syndrome', with which it has a lot in common:

Quote:
Interviews often note that T.I.s ("targeted individuals) don’t appear “unusual,” “disheveled,” or otherwise “crazy” and that some of them are doctors, acclaimed novelists, and other reasonably well-functioning professionals. Indeed, the T.I. community is comprised of thousands of diverse individuals, coming from all walks of life, with similarly diverse accounts of who might be harassing them and why.
For example, the “who” is variably attributed to neighbors, ex-boyfriends, employers, police, and other law enforcement agencies, “the financial elite,” or less conventional sources, like Freemasons and space aliens. The “why” is often attributed to retaliation for ending relationships, acting as whistleblowers at work, political activism, having run-ins with the law, or being privy to secret information. Seemingly motiveless harassment is chalked up to being hapless victims of experimentation by government agencies testing new techniques of surveillance or mind control.
(...)
If there’s a common thread to the accounts of gang stalking, it’s that T.I.s describe considerable suffering not only as a result of ongoing concerns about being harassed, but also from the experience of physical symptoms, like pain and “hearing voices,” and the significant social stigma associated with sharing their claims with family, friends, or mental health professionals who routinely dismiss them as “crazy.”
Gang Stalking: Real-Life Harassment or Textbook Paranoia?
Part 1: The paranoid reality of "targeted individuals."
(Psychology Today, Oct 20, 2021)

Quote:
Tellingly, when these 2020 survey results were compared to those from an earlier 2015 sample, respondents reported a greater frequency of believing that gang stalking was part of a global conspiracy that's being "covered up" by the "establishment." It's quite possible that these differences reflect the explosion of online accounts of gang stalking over the past 5 years as well as the proliferation of other conspiracy theories during a period of growing mistrust. Indeed, recent gang stalking survey respondents were also more likely than those from 2015 to report finding support online, while counterintuitively being more likely to feel isolated and lonely.
As I’ve discussed in a previous blogpost (“Are ‘Hearing Voices Groups’ a Help or Harm?"), support groups—whether in person or online—present something of a dilemma with regard to the people with psychotic symptoms. On the one hand, those with hallucinations or delusions can find valued support on the internet when it hasn’t been otherwise available, and when they refuse to seek psychiatric care. But on the other hand, such validation can also be harmful, reinforcing false beliefs and keeping people away from potentially helpful interventions in the form of actual treatment beyond simple support.
Gang Stalking: Conspiracy, Delusion, and Shared Belief
Part 2: When group affiliation reinforces delusion-like beliefs.
(Psychology Today, Oct 31, 2021)

Quote:
Note that even if "Havana syndrome" could actually be explained by the microwave attacks perpetrated by the likes of foreign entities like Russia, we'd still need a plausible explanation—recalling that paranoia and grandiosity are two sides of the same coin—of why such attacks would also be directed at "average Joes" here in the US to account for gang stalking. But in reality, there’s very little objective evidence to support that microwave attacks do offer the best explanation for Havana syndrome.
Gang Stalking: A Case of Mass Hysteria?
Part 3: When mass paranoia occurs through mass suggestion.
(Psychology Today, Nov 16, 2021)

I can imagine that it will be even harder to dismiss your delusion of gang stalking if you know that your job gives a foreign country an actual reason to stalk you and if your employer is the one who encourages you to be on the lookout for stalkers who are trying to harm you.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 23rd November 2021 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:27 AM   #1123
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Alien Attack? Mass Hysteria? Conspiracy?

NBC News has found an FBI agent with the CIA syndrome:

Quote:
In an email last month, an FBI official told a former agent who had reported possible brain injury symptoms that "unfortunately, the FBI is not authorized to give any medical advice and there are not any medical programs in place for current and/or retired employees." The agent began suffering migraines and dizziness about a decade ago after a stint overseas in a country near Russia.
(...)
NBC News reported in 2018 that U.S. intelligence officials considered Russia a leading suspect in what some of them assess to have been deliberate attacks on diplomats and CIA officers overseas. But in the nearly three years since then, the spy agencies have not uncovered enough evidence to pinpoint the cause or the culprit of the health incidents. U.S. officials cannot say for sure that they were intentional attacks or even that they were the result of human activity.
FBI acknowledges some agents may have Havana Syndrome symptoms (NBC News, Nov 24, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th November 2021, 10:32 AM   #1124
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
NBC News has found an FBI agent with the CIA syndrome:

Quote:
...after a stint overseas in a country near Russia.
Alaska?

You might have inadvertently found what's wrong with Sarah Palin.
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Old 24th November 2021, 11:16 AM   #1125
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I don't think NBC News considers Alaska to be overseas ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th November 2021, 09:23 PM   #1126
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Quote:
CIA Director William J. Burns delivered a confidential warning to Russia’s top intelligence services that they will face “consequences” if they are behind the string of mysterious health incidents known as “Havana Syndrome” afflicting U.S. diplomats and spies around the world, according to U.S. officials familiar with the exchange.
CIA director warns Russian spies of ‘consequences’ if they are behind ‘Havana Syndrome’ incidents (WP, Nov 24, 2021)

'We just want to warn you guys that if you are behind these incidents that we don't understand but for some reason insist are attacks by you guys, there'll be a price to pay!'

Will it have any consequences at all when the CIA director and his cronies have to realize that they themselves cause the 'Havana Syndrome' incidents by insisting that they are attacks?
Is the whole point of the 'Havana Syndrome' at this point to delay this realization?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 24th November 2021, 09:26 PM   #1127
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, I hadn't heard that one, but I can see that it's popular on Amazon.

That's the culprit.
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Old 24th November 2021, 09:28 PM   #1128
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Will it have any consequences at all when the CIA director and his cronies have to realize that they themselves cause the 'Havana Syndrome' incidents by insisting that they are attacks?
Is the whole point of the 'Havana Syndrome' at this point to delay this realization?
They don't know how to say it's in their heads.

What's a nice way to put it?
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Old 24th November 2021, 09:31 PM   #1129
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Quote:
Internal FBI emails show an agent had reported possible brain injury symptoms after working in a country near Russia.
FBI acknowledges agents may have had ‘Havana Syndrome’ symptoms (New York Post, Nov 24, 2021)

And what were the symptoms again?

Quote:
Havana Syndrome is so named because the first incidents of it were reported by US officials serving in Cuba in 2016. Symptoms include migraines, nausea, memory lapses and dizziness.

Yeah, right!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 26th November 2021, 12:54 PM   #1130
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FBI declares 'Havana Syndrome' a 'top priority': report - US officials still have yet to determine cause of syndrome (Fox News, Nov 26, 2021)
Yes, they do have to determine the cause, but they don't seem to be getting any closer: "Theories range from a nerve agent to microwave or sonic weapons."
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th November 2021, 01:12 AM   #1131
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'Immaculate Concussion'

In another context, I stumbled on this article, Wind of Ball Theory, Could a Near Miss of a Cannonball Kill You? (TFB, March 12, 2019), which mentions historical examples, but they are very low tech and don't involve sonic or microwave weapons:

Quote:
In the segment "Subcutaneous contusions without external marks" the author mentions that despite the victim showing no external marks, the internal organs have become "viscus" or "lacerated" and that "a strong tendon like the tendo-Achillis has been ruptured, without any mark having been left by the shot on the skin; symptoms of cerebral concussion have shown themselves, or rupture of a sinus and fatal effusion of the blood has occurred, yet no lesion to the scalp has been detected."

But as the article says, "skepticism still remains."
Of course, tendons can rupture without any marks on the skin - and without any cannonballs - and the alleged "symptoms of cerebral concussion" may have been due to shell shock and not confirmed by autopsies.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 29th November 2021, 07:23 AM   #1132
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The allusion to Camila Cabello's song makes it obvious that the Indian news site FPJ doesn't take the 'syndrome' quite seriously:
FPJ Explains: Havana, ooh na-na - Should India fear this mysterious syndrome? (The Free Press Journal, Nov 27, 2021)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 29th November 2021 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 30th November 2021, 06:21 AM   #1133
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The author of this article has considered all the current explanations but remains undecided "until science – and some stellar detective work – shines a light where currently there is none":

Quote:
Phantoms, fears and no end in sight
The evolving story – with its diverse cast of characters, impenetrable mysteries, contradictory conclusions and accumulating escalations – reads like a genre-defining work of “espionage surrealism.” Victims of alleged attacks with weapons which may not exist, have filed lawsuits for compensation for debilitating illnesses which may not have an external cause – and they are likely to succeed in court. In another sideways tilt of the plot, the loudest public voices of the putative defendant – the US government – have openly sided with the plaintiffs.
Havana Syndrome: The Perfect Disease for a Post-Truth World (Balkan Insight, Nov 30, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st December 2021, 08:39 AM   #1134
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In a new article at the Fair Observer, Peter Isackson analyzes recent reporting in NYT, WP and NBC News on CIA's Mr Burns's absurd threats against Russia. As mentioned in post 1071 on Oct 30, 2021, the site has already published several articles about the 'Havana Syndrome':

Quote:
The public manifestation of paranoia that Burns dared to toss at the Russians may be little more than political posturing. It could be intended to comfort the victims by creating the illusion that the government is ready to go to battle in their cause, while pleasing hawkish Democrats intent on accusing Russia of everything bad that takes place in the world. This example of officially proclaimed paranoia begins with the formulation engineered by the authorities who make the claims, with no need to present evidence. It is then disseminated by the media, such as The Washington Post, The New York Times or NBC News. Those organs can be trusted to spread an illusory idea of a chain of cause and effect. In this case, that borders on comedy — they make the assertion while officially denying that it is a fact.
The CIA Brings Havana to Ukraine - CIA Director William J. Burns demonstrates the art of hypothetical geopolitical brinkmanship. (Fair Observer, Nov 30, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 1st December 2021, 03:02 PM   #1135
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
In a new article at the Fair Observer, Peter Isackson analyzes recent reporting in NYT, WP and NBC News on CIA's Mr Burns's absurd threats against Russia.
Mate, thanks for your work on this - you're doing a great job.

Pity the people running USA, the CIA and their foreign affairs wouldn't ever see it.
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Old 2nd December 2021, 10:51 AM   #1136
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They may not see this, but they are very much aware of the criticism of the idea that the 'syndrome' is caused by attacks, and so are the victims and their lawyer, which is why they are so eager to 'cancel' anybody involved with the pseudo-investigation who dares to doubt the idea.

Robert Bartholomew recently wrote An Open Letter to the U.S Congress on ‘Havana Syndrome’ (Psychology Today, Nov 2, 2021). Two years ago, he wrote a similar Open Letter to the Diplomats With "Havana Syndrome" (Psychology Today, Nov 2, 2019).
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 2nd December 2021, 10:55 AM   #1137
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A German Covid conspiracy nut's death from a heart attack is now interpreted as having been caused by a microwave/directed energy attack: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5#post13669975
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 2nd December 2021, 01:16 PM   #1138
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In Canada, the 'syndrome' seems to be kept alive by a lawyer and his 'syndrome'-suffering clients, but I assume the whole thing would have died down if it weren't for the steady stream of 'syndrome' news about U.S. diplomats and agents.
However, Canada's policy appears to have kept the number of new cases low in comparison to the USA: about ten Canadian cases since 2017 but hundreds of Americans.

Quote:
After completing stints in Cuba, nearly 20 Canadian diplomats complained of violent headaches, visual troubles and nausea -- and they claim their government has failed them and others who are still falling ill with the mysterious "Havana Syndrome".
Officially, the Canadian authorities only recognize 14 cases of the unexplained affliction, with the last recorded in December 2018.
But the stricken diplomats, who are suing the government in Ottawa for taking too long to evacuate them and provide them with treatment, say the number is closer to 30 -- and rising.
Paul Miller, a Toronto lawyer representing 18 Canadian diplomats claiming more than 28 million Canadian dollars (about $22 million USD) in damages and interest, told AFP he continues to receive calls from alleged victims.
Canada diplomats say Ottawa mishandled 'Havana Syndrome' crisis (France24, Dec 2, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 2nd December 2021, 01:43 PM   #1139
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More about Threats from the Twilight Zone


Peter Isackson follows up on his article from Nov 30, 2021 (see post 1134):

Quote:
For any proud American, anything that remains unknown to the US, the world’s most technologically advanced nation, must come from an alien world.
The military specialists don’t agree and others in the government suspect “‘foreign adversaries’ who could pose a national security risk.” Read China or Russia. Just like the Havana syndrome, UFOs, whether real or not, can serve to suspect Russia or China of being up to something sinister that Americans, even after years and decades of research, cannot understand. The fact that no one understands makes it more likely in many people’s eyes that the culprit is Russia or China.
The Pentagon’s Love of Threats - In a society obsessed by security, now understood as military preparedness, threats must not be eliminated but cared for and groomed. (Fair Observer, Dec 2, 2021)

See also post 1114.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 3rd December 2021, 05:05 AM   #1140
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I have already compared the many investigations of the 'Havana Syndrome' with the Vatican's miracle commission. One might assume that the Pope's miracle detectives are trying to find proof positive of divine intervention, but that is not the case:

Quote:
If the delegates fail to find a satisfactory scientific explanation for the strange phenomenon, they can call in external experts.
“They do everything they can to find an explanation. At some point they may give up, and then the case is handed over to the Vatican’s theologians,” says the researcher.
“The theologians then examine the doctors’ testimonies for specific religious issues – e.g. trust and prayer. If such issues are present in the testimonies, they, together with the inexplicable nature of the incident, constitute the miracle.”

So:
absence of a sensible explanation for a case of healing + faith in the Catholic god = a miracle!

And the USA's current investigations of the 'Havana Syndrome' work in similar mysterious ways:
Absence of proof of other causes for one's symptoms + faith in the cause of the USA (and forsaking its adversaries as a professional in its service) = 'Syndrome' victim!

Quote:
For months, the C.I.A. and government scientists have been working to find a cause of the chronic ailments reported by intelligence officers and diplomats — but the health incidents, known as the Havana syndrome, remain as mysterious now as they were a year ago.
Intelligence officials have not found any hard evidence that points to a cause. There are no intelligence intercepts implicating an adversarial spy service. No one has detected microwaves, other readings of energy pulses or any other weapons that could be to blame.
(...)
There have now been 750 official reports of possible anomalous health incidents ... but about three-quarters are no longer being investigated as likely cases of Havana syndrome.
(...)
But of the approximately 200 cases of mysterious incidents still under active examination, the Biden administration does not think they were caused by functional illness or other psychosomatic reactions. In those cases, a U.S. official said, multiple explanations remain possible, including directed energy, sonic devices or other medical explanations.
Review Finds No Answers to Mystery of Havana Syndrome (NYT, Dec 2, 2021)
That is "other medical explanations" than mass psychogenic illness, which seems to be just as unlikely in the eyes of Burns and the other investigators as natural spontaneous remission in good Christians in the eyes of the Vatican's miracle investigators. The lack of a proper explanation means that the devil (i.e. Putin) did it! And Putin works in mysterious, unknown and undetectable ways:

Quote:
Others briefed on the intelligence said the lack of evidence is baffling, since the kinds of directed energy known to cause injury ought to be detectable. The absence of proof could mean an adversarial power is using a technology that is unknown, and undetectable, to the United States.

So the best proof of an adversarial power using microwave guns to harm U.S. diplomats and CIA agents is absence of proof! That + faith is all the proof you need!
Just ask the Miracle Commission!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 4th December 2021, 12:20 AM   #1141
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"A blow to the 'directed-energy' Havana Syndrome case"

Maybe Politico should consider this to be a blow to the kind of journalism that does nothing but quote sources in the CIA and their political allies. It may come as a surprise to Poltico, but many of us aren't surprised at all.
Maybe Politico should consider 'doing its own research'. Actual research!

Quote:
Writing about the CIA and broader administration’s effort to uncover who and/or what is behind so-called Havana Syndrome attacks, they report “[i]ntelligence officials have not found any hard evidence that points to a cause. There are no intelligence intercepts implicating an adversarial spy service. No one has detected microwaves, other readings of energy pulses or any other weapons that could be to blame.”
That’s surprising, not only because U.S. officials have told POLITICO and others that directed-energy attacks are surely the culprit — with some claiming Russia is behind them — but also because lawmakers openly state that that’s the answer.
But it’s hard to reconcile the NYT’s reporting and remarks by members of Congress that directed energy explains why hundreds of diplomats have suffered headaches, nausea, brain damage and other illnesses.
A blow to the 'directed-energy' Havana Syndrome case (Politico, Dec 3, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 4th December 2021, 03:01 AM   #1142
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Quote:
Columnist at New Republic, Natalie Shure, gives her take on 'Havana Syndrome.'
Behind The Havana Syndrome: Not As Mysterious As Everyone Thinks, Research REVEALS False Narrative (The Hill, Dec 1, 2021)

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I AGREE

Many of the comments are from people who are very offended because she doesn't stick to repeating the claims made by 'syndrome' sufferers and U.S. politicians.

In post 1048, I applauded Natalie Shure's most recent article in New Republic about the 'Havana Syndrome'.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 4th December 2021, 07:47 AM   #1143
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It think that this is simply a copy of the recent NYT article:
Review finds no answer to Havana syndrome mystery (Switzerland Times, Dec 2, 2021)

But it reminds me that the NYT article mentions that Mark Renzi, a 'Havana Syndrome' sufferer, claims that microwaves, directed energy (whatever) actually has been detected:
Quote:
The government, Mr. Lenzi also said, has readings that show the presence of dangerous levels of microwave energy in China. In an unclassified workers’ compensation report he filed with the Labor Department, Mr. Lenzi recounted how his neighbor in China used a commercial detector to record high levels of microwave energy in the apartment next to his.
(...)
When the government says directed energy is a theory but there is no evidence, “That is simply not true,” Mr. Lenzi said
“They have readings, especially in Guangzhou,” he said.

I wonder why he (or the NYT) doesn't go into the details about what exactly those readings are. What kind of microwave energy at what levels?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 4th December 2021, 08:02 AM   #1144
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
It think that this is simply a copy of the recent NYT article:
Review finds no answer to Havana syndrome mystery (Switzerland Times, Dec 2, 2021)

But it reminds me that the NYT article mentions that Mark Renzi, a 'Havana Syndrome' sufferer, claims that microwaves, directed energy (whatever) actually has been detected:



I wonder why he (or the NYT) doesn't go into the details about what exactly those readings are. What kind of microwave energy at what levels?
Also why if it was directed, it was directed at his neighbour?
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Old 4th December 2021, 02:51 PM   #1145
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I am not sure, but when it says that "his neighbor in China used a commercial detector to record high levels of microwave energy in the apartment next to his," I assume that it is supposed to mean that the microwave energy was coming from that apartment. The neighbor he refers to may be the other Guangzhou 'syndrome' sufferer who lived in the apartment above Mark Lenzi and his family. See the CBS News article below.

Anyway, I wonder why a "security engineering officer" had to rely on a neighbor's use of "a commercial detector" to come up with the "reading" that he mentions.
Quote:
One of those victims, current State Department official Mark Lenzi, sustained traumatic brain injuries while on assignment in Guangzhou, China, in late 2017, when he was working as a security engineering officer in the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. It wasn’t until June 2018 that Lenzi was evaluated for directed-energy exposure, more than six months after first informing his superiors about his symptoms.
State Department tested diplomats for 'directed energy exposure' years before telling Congress - A whistleblower victim provided new documents to POLITICO and is alleging retaliation for speaking out. (Politico, Oct 25, 2021)

When he mentioned it on 60 Minutes in 2019, he didn't talk about any microwaves being actually measured, detected or recorded:
Quote:
Scott Pelley: What sort of energy is this that we're talking about?
Mark Lenzi: I believe it's RF, radio frequency energy, in the microwave range.
Brain trauma suffered by U.S. diplomats abroad could be work of hostile foreign government (CBS News, March 17, 2019)

And the documents that Politico was so proud of having obtained don't mention any microwave measurements, recordings or detection:
Doc 1
Doc 2
Doc 3

Babalú Blog, a right-wing anti-Castro site, quotes Politico but has this title:
U.S. State Department hid the truth about Cuban sonic attacks from Congress, retaliated against whistleblower (Babalú Blog, Oct 26, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 5th December 2021, 04:56 AM   #1146
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Leading Theory

From the Fair Observer, Aug 20, 2021:
Quote:
Leading theory
For government-led investigations, any theory, however improbable or utterly unlikely that points toward a hypothesis consistent with the requirements of the perpetrator’s agenda of political marketing.
Questions on Which No One Agrees: Infrastructure, Cuba and Jobs
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 7th December 2021, 10:05 AM   #1147
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It has been five days since the NYT article Review Finds No Answers to Mystery of Havana Syndrome, and it seems like the mainstream media will continue to ignore it, probably waiting for new, unsubstantiated reports in line with the leading theory that the 'syndrome' is caused by attacks perpetrated by a menacing, undetectably and invisible enemy:

Quote:
THERE WILL BE NO WAR, AND UKRAINE WILL NOT JOIN NATO: An uneasy stalemate is likely for months to come, with Moscow stirring the pot in the Mideast while supporting cyberwarfare against the U.S. The "Havana Syndrome" will persist, an increasingly menacing attempt to affect the health of U.S. embassy personnel.
AGF Management : High Stakes as Biden and Putin Talk; Threat of War is Greatly Exaggerated (MarketScreener, Dec 7, 2021)

There is no reason to assume that Mr. Burns will give up his favourite fantasy, and his people love him for it:

Quote:
In another move seen as defending his workforce, he prioritised an investigation into the mysterious health effects that CIA officers first reported in 2016 as part of so-called Havana syndrome, meeting victims from day one and appointing a senior officer who helped find Osama bin Laden to head a team investigating its cause:

“There was an absolute sea change when Bill Burns took over,” said Marc Polymeropoulos, a veteran former CIA field officer who ran clandestine operations and has suffered health problems. “This is the validation that we needed . . . I think he understands leadership.”
Joe Biden turns to spy chief for tricky diplomatic missions (Financial Times, Dec 6, 2021)

Too bad he doesn't understand mass psychogenic illness ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th December 2021, 07:59 AM   #1148
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Was George W. Bush a 2007 victim of Russia-induced 'Havana Syndrome'? (Washington Examiner, Dec 8, 2021)

No!
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 9th December 2021, 01:05 AM   #1149
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The story about George W. Bush is so far out that not even the White House takes it seriously:

Quote:
Q Karine, has the White House got a response to this story that came out saying that President — former President George W. Bush — this is speculating — might have been a target of a Havana Syndrome-type attack, based on the symptoms that he and the former First Lady experienced.
MS. JEAN-PIERRE: I mean, I can’t speak to anything that’s speculated. I — this is the first time I’m hearing about this report, and so I would have to go back and check with our team.
Press Gaggle by Principal Deputy Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre En Route Kansas City, MO (The White House, Dec 8, 2021)

This is the bill mentioned before that includes not only "anomalous health incidents, but also "unidentified aerial phenomena.
Quote:
Havana syndrome, China and Afghanistan
On "anomalous health incidents," more colloquially known as Havana Syndrome, the bill authorizes the President to appoint a "senior official" to lead a "whole-of-government" effort to address the incidents, the summary states. The bill also creates a "Department of Defense cross functional team" to coordinate the Pentagon's response to the health incidents. The team will address "national security challenges," posed by the health incidents and ensure that those who have suffered from the incidents receive timely medical care, the bill states.
House passes bill authorizing $770 billion in Pentagon funding and setting Defense policy (CNN, Dec 8, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 10th December 2021, 01:23 AM   #1150
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I wonder why he (or the NYT) doesn't go into the details about what exactly those readings are. What kind of microwave energy at what levels?

There are more details in a CNN article today: State Department officer struck by Havana syndrome sues Blinken and agency for alleged disability discrimination (CNN, Dec 10, 2021)

The State Department officer in question is Mark Lenzi, the "he" mentioned in post 1143, who began to suffer from the 'syndrome' in Guangzhou. In many ways, he sounds more like a disgruntled employee than anything else:

Quote:
Lenzi also claims that although he has received some disability accommodations, he has been placed in roles that are associated with salary tiers below his expertise level -- even though, he claims, those accommodations would not have precluded him from taking an overseas posting more commensurate with his experience.
The suit also alleges that "Mr. Lenzi would most likely have been promoted already if not for the Agency's discrimination and retaliation against him."

It wasn't clear in the NYT article who exactly had measured what. The CNN article says:

Quote:
In the suit, Lenzi claims that a security engineering officer (SEO) conducted a technical inspection of the apartment of another State Department official who was medically evacuated from the country for symptoms similar to Lenzi's. But the engineering officer used microwave detection equipment that was "antiquated and out of date, was not working properly and was disfavored by SEOs who use this type of equipment frequently," the lawsuit says.
The engineering officer "told Mr. Lenzi that this technical inspection of the medevac'd officer's apartment was a 'check-the-box' exercise, and stated that (the Diplomatic Security Deputy Assistant Secretary of State) had expressly requested that this inferior device be used for the search," the suit claims.

Much like Patient Zero in Havana, he also 'spread the word' (and thus the condition):

Quote:
Lenzi eventually moved his family out of their Guangzhou apartment of his own accord and sent an unclassified email to colleagues "warning them about the potential danger to their health and safety," according to the suit. That email prompted the State Department to order him to undergo a psychiatric evaluation, Lenzi claims.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 10th December 2021, 10:52 AM   #1151
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Unlike the NYT article, Review Finds No Answers to Mystery of Havana Syndrome, mentioned in post 1141, the CNN story today about Mark Lenzi suing his employers is already all over the internet.

Washington Post wrote about it:

Quote:
He said an agency-affiliated doctor refused to diagnose him with the condition, meaning he received less support than other colleagues.
(...)
He also alleges that after he sent a mass email to his colleagues warning of the potential harm, the State Department engaged in “crude and cruel” retaliation by ordering him to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.
U.S. diplomat said to have ‘Havana Syndrome’ sues State Dept. and Blinken, alleging discrimination (WP, Dec 10, 2021)

I am pretty sure that my doctor would also refuse to diagnose me with having come down with a bad case of being attacked by a directed microwave energy weapon and would then recommend some kind of psychiatric evaluation.
I seriously doubt that his current behavior will help him get the promotion that he's been hoping for ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 11th December 2021, 06:04 AM   #1152
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Alien Attack? Mass Hysteria? Conspiracy?

More UFOs (or UAPs):

An interview with Garry Nolan, a Professor of Pathology at Stanford University, who became famous for doing gene-sequencing analysis of a skeleton that some people believed to be an alien, thus proving that it wasn't.

Quote:
That ended up bringing me to the attention of some people associated with the CIA and some aeronautics corporations.
(...)
Then these guys showed up and said, ‘We need you to help us with this because we want to do blood analysis and everybody says that you've got the best blood analysis instrumentation on the planet.’ Then they started showing the MRIs of some of these pilots and ground personnel and intelligence agents who had been damaged.
(...)
How many patients did you take a look at in that first phase?
It was around 100 patients. They were almost all defense or governmental personnel or people working in the aerospace industry; people doing government-level work. Here's how it works: Let's say that a Department of Defense personnel gets damaged or hurt. Odd cases go up the chain of command, at least within the medical branch. If nobody knows what to do with it, it goes over to what's called the weird desk, where things get thrown in a bucket.
Stanford Professor Garry Nolan Is Analyzing Anomalous Materials From UFO Crashes (Vice, Dec 10, 2021)

"Odd cases go up the chain of command." That sounds even more like the Vatican Miracle Commission (post 1,140) than I thought!

Quote:
You have a smorgasbord of patients, some of whom had heard weird noises buzzing in their head, got sick, etc. A reasonable subset of them had claimed to have seen UAPs and some claimed to be close to things that got them sick.
(...)
That was when we realized that these people were not damaged, but had an over-connection of neurons between the head of the caudate and the putamen.
(...)
If you looked at 100 average people, you wouldn’t see this kind of density. But these individuals had it. An open question is: did coming in contact with whatever it was cause it or not?
For a couple of these individuals we had MRIs from prior years. They had it before they had these incidents. It was pretty obvious, then, that this was something that people were born with.

Unfortunately, he is not at liberty to say how many of the brains he studied belonged to 'Havana Syndrome' sufferers and how many had had UFO encounters, and he probably wasn't even told, but ...

Quote:
Did the people who claimed that they'd had an encounter, especially the pilots, describe any perceivable decrease in neurological capacity?
Of the 100 or so patients that we looked at, about a quarter of them died from their injuries. The majority of these patients had symptomology that's basically identical to what's now called Havana syndrome. We think amongst this bucket list of cases, we had the first Havana syndrome patients. Once this turned into a national security problem with the Havana syndrome I was locked out of all of the access to the files because it's now a serious potential international incident if they ever figured out who's been doing it.
That still left individuals who had seen UAPs. They didn't have Havana syndrome. They had a smorgasbord of other symptoms.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 11th December 2021, 11:41 AM   #1153
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Another Danish skeptic told me about this one:

Quote:
Here’s what you’ll find in Skeptic Magazine 26.4 (2021): Havana Syndrome Hysteria and the Great Wild Goose Chase • Stupid Videos and Marketing Ploys • Environmental Conspiracies: Why do conspiracy theorists believe natural events are intentionally manipulated? • “You Can’t Say That!” Corporate Policing of Language • Excerpt from The Conjurer’s Conundrum: My Life in Magic & Skepticism • Vexed by the Un-Vaxxed • Misunderstanding Vaccines • Why Would God Create the Universe? • Distorting Darwinism • Electrohypersensitivity as a New Psychological Disorder • Reviews of Hawking Hawking: The Selling of a Scientific Celebrity; Mysteries and Secrets Revealed; The Conjurer’s Conundrum; The Century of Deception • Special Investigation: Penguin Paradox — Serious Skeptical Lessons from an Apparently Silly Story
VOL. 26 NO. 4 HAVANA SYNDROME HYSTERIA (Skeptic, 2021)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th December 2021, 11:24 AM   #1154
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Alien Attack? Mass Hysteria? Conspiracy?

The Sun got hold of the interview with Garry Nolan in Vice and based an article almost entirely on that interview, and now the New York Post has reprinted the Sun article:
A look inside people’s brains who say they’ve had a UFO encounter (NYP, Dec 12, 2021).

The Sun and NYP are much more interested in UFOs (or UAPs) than in the 'syndrome', so they manage connect it with a recent NASA report that doesn't exclude the "possibility of extraterrestrial life existing" and with a story about a boulder photographed on the Moon, but in this version it's an actual hut:
Quote:
The new X-Files-style unit will run on-the-ground investigations into UFOs, probe any “threat” posed by the craft, and oversee any efforts to “capture” them.
And China’s space agency has found a tiny hut on the Moon and dubbed it a “mysterious house” after spotting the cube on the far side of the lunar surface.

Let me propose a nuclear attack on that hut to make sure that all the directed microwave energy weapons that it contains will be gone forever. It will show the world as well as the galaxy that Biden means business, and it will give give some peace to the agents and diplomats who imagine that they have been harmed by those weapons.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th December 2021, 02:43 PM   #1155
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In post 1,140, I linked to the article Review Finds No Answers to Mystery of Havana Syndrome (NYT, Dec 2, 2021).

Peter Isackson criticizes the NYT article, The New York Times Manages the Unknown - The Times’ coverage of the Havana syndrome has become a running joke (Fair Observer, Dec 6, 2021), and points out that there is probably no reason to assume that it constitutes the end of almost five years of unsubstantiated speculations about attacks:

Quote:
The authors expect readers to feel morally offended that the obdurate Russians “consistently” deny something that may not even exist. This is the ongoing mind-game that The Times has been playing regularly in its reporting on the Havana syndrome.
Historical Note
When the authors write, “so far, the C.I.A. has been unable to collect hard evidence to show…some sort of energy pulse,” they fail to mention that the agency has been at it for five years, with the usual unlimited budget to achieve its goal. “So far” indicates that there will be more budget and more time to keep alive the version The Times’ preferred version of the story.
(...)
“So far” reasoning can be a powerful tool of propaganda to plant an unverified story and make it survive for months, years or decades on end. All this is maintained while preventing serious investigators and historians from accessing the evidence that risks contradicting the preferred narrative.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th December 2021, 05:21 PM   #1156
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Sabine Hossenfelder has a video on the subject.

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Old 12th December 2021, 08:36 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
The Sun got hold of the interview with Garry Nolan in Vice and based an article almost entirely on that interview, and now the New York Post has reprinted the Sun article:
A look inside people’s brains who say they’ve had a UFO encounter (NYP, Dec 12, 2021).

The Sun and NYP are much more interested in UFOs (or UAPs) than in the 'syndrome', so they manage connect it with a recent NASA report that doesn't exclude the "possibility of extraterrestrial life existing" and with a story about a boulder photographed on the Moon, but in this version it's an actual hut:



Let me propose a nuclear attack on that hut to make sure that all the directed microwave energy weapons that it contains will be gone forever. It will show the world as well as the galaxy that Biden means business, and it will give give some peace to the agents and diplomats who imagine that they have been harmed by those weapons.
Hahaha, "it's easier to fool someone than to convince them they've been fooled".
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Old 12th December 2021, 10:28 PM   #1158
dann
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Sabine Hossenfelder has a video on the subject.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Been there.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 12th December 2021 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 13th December 2021, 10:22 AM   #1159
dann
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Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
Hahaha, "it's easier to fool someone than to convince them they've been fooled".

I could not find an English translation of these paragraphs, so this is my translation from Danish:

Quote:
In Enzyklopädie der philosophischen Wissenschaften im Grundrisse §408, Hegel writes that when you are dealing with people who are insane, you should grasp onto the rest of reason that they still have left by using the specific delusion, the fixed idea, as your starting point:

"Thus, you can often cure them by giving them the impression that you accept their distorted point of view and then suddenly do something that makes the insane person see a liberation from his imaginary malady. A well-known example is an Englishman who thought that he had a cartload of hay, as well as the cart and four horses, in his stomach. He was liberated from this delusion by a doctor who won his trust by assuring him that he could actually feel the cart and the four horses and then convincing him that he had a way to shrink this thing in his stomach. Then he gave the insane person an emetic and had him throw up out of the window when the doctor had ordered a hay cart to go by outside, a hay cart, which the insane person imagined that he had thrown up."

In this way the insane person can "see" that he has got rid of the malady. When he has thus been freed from his delusion, you can talk to him about the actual problem. Similarly in another one of Hegel's examples from the same place:

"Another one thought that he was dead, he didn't move and would not eat anything. He came to his senses when they - apparently accepting his insanity - put him in a coffin in a crypt next to another person who, at first, pretended that he was dead, but soon after he had been left alone with the insane person, he sat up and told him that he was pleased that he now had company in death, and in the end he got up and ate some of the food that had been placed in the crypt and told the insane person that he had been dead for a long time already and thus knew the ways of the dead. The insane person was assuaged by this assurance, ate and drank too, and was cured."
https://www.skeptica.dk/?p=1171

So nuking the 'Chinese hut' on the dark side of the Moon is the most rational solution I can come up with in the current situation.


ETA: But they should get the Chinese camera bot out the way before the nuking begins. Otherwise, there may be an international incident. A real one, not an anomalous health one!
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 13th December 2021 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 13th December 2021, 01:16 PM   #1160
dann
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,798
Peter Savodnik's analysis of the 'syndrome':

Quote:
“Look, there are fair instances of *******,” a former State Department official now working in another government agency said. American military and intelligence personnel generally expect more aggressive harassment while on duty overseas. “But the targeting of diplomats is very different. Diplomats are, by definition, not supposed to be ****** with in that regard.”
(...)
The real *******, as it were, is not Russian agents causing American spies and diplomats a great deal of suffering. That’s awful, if it’s true. It’s awful no matter the cause. The real ******* is that, five years after Havana Syndrome came to America, five years after America veered off its prescribed historical-political course, we remain convinced that the very bad thing that is happening to us is being imposed from the outside—a mysterious force infiltrating our homes and warping our brains. That whatever this is must be someone else’s fault. That it can’t be us.
The Attacks - Is Havana Syndrome a secret super weapon? Or a social contagion? (Common Sense, Dec 8, 2021)

The article uses actual words, not reproducible here at the ISF, for ******* and ******.
__________________
/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 13th December 2021 at 01:17 PM.
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