ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Economics, Business and Finance
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 22nd January 2015, 07:11 PM   #241
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 27,590
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You still doesn't understand, at the end of the year or life the money you gained is equal to the money you paid.
So everyone worked exactly the same amount and bought exactly the same things? Do you understand yet?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd January 2015, 07:15 PM   #242
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You still doesn't understand, at the end of the year or life the money you gained is equal to the money you paid.
That would only be true if I died completely broke. Having money is how society advanced. Your archaic no money world would set society back many years. It is money and the hope for a better life that motivates most people to work harder and smarter to gain more for themselves and their families and that's how it should be.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2015, 12:18 PM   #243
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
That would only be true if I died completely broke. Having money is how society advanced. Your archaic no money world would set society back many years. It is money and the hope for a better life that motivates most people to work harder and smarter to gain more for themselves and their families and that's how it should be.
it is not money that motivate people, studies i shew you say the opposite, just show me your studies, it is not just to say, it must be supported by studies like i shew you.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2015, 12:52 PM   #244
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
it is not money that motivate people, studies i shew you say the opposite, just show me your studies, it is not just to say, it must be supported by studies like i shew you.
http://www.sevencounties.org/poc/vie...=24573&cn=1195

Quote:
What is this whole business of making money about? How much money do you really need? The answers to these questions depends on your lifestyle and what your material needs are. It is often said that money is not the most important thing in the world. For many people, however, it is right up there next to air in importance. These are not necessarily overly-materialistic people. Rather, they simply understand the true value of money. Money, in and of itself, is not very spectacular. What money can do for you is what is really important. Money gives you freedom and choices. You can decide where and how you want to live when you have a good income or financial resources. On the other hand, when you do not have much money, choice may be something that you cannot afford. The choices available to you may not really be choices at all.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2015, 02:53 PM   #245
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 27,590
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
it is not money that motivate people, studies i shew you say the opposite, just show me your studies, it is not just to say, it must be supported by studies like i shew you.
Shew us that parable again. That was a riot.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2015, 03:02 PM   #246
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I said studies, not what some people say.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd January 2015, 04:13 PM   #247
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I said studies, not what some people say.
All you've done is assert things without evidence. What people say would be the result of any "studies" done. If people say money is important, then any studies done would reflect that money is important.

What you are doing is trying to reward the lazy and give them money for nothing.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2015, 10:50 AM   #248
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
All you've done is assert things without evidence. What people say would be the result of any "studies" done. If people say money is important, then any studies done would reflect that money is important.

What you are doing is trying to reward the lazy and give them money for nothing.
When i say some i don't mean all people. It is not money that some people like it is what they can get with it, they don't work for money, they work for what they can get with it, if they can. It would be the samething in a world of no money, people would work to have a better live.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2015, 11:03 AM   #249
ComfySlippers
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 4,723
Gaetan, you've been peddling this nonsense since November 2010.
I think it's time for you to stop.
It's just silly.
ComfySlippers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2015, 12:49 PM   #250
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 27,590
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
When i say some i don't mean all people. It is not money that some people like it is what they can get with it, they don't work for money, they work for what they can get with it, if they can. It would be the samething in a world of no money, people would work to have a better live.
Thank you for admitting that money is useful for facilitating transactions.

Tell us about that parable again.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2015, 12:56 PM   #251
wrs
Graduate Poster
 
wrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,901
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
That would only be true if I died completely broke. Having money is how society advanced. Your archaic no money world would set society back many years. It is money and the hope for a better life that motivates most people to work harder and smarter to gain more for themselves and their families and that's how it should be.
Then why is Saudi Arabia pursuing a policy that hurts themselves by reducing their income in order to hurt others that they view as their competition? Does that stem from a view that they are going to work smarter and harder to gain more for themselves and their families? Did the people who figured out how to get oil out of the deep shale rock work smarter and harder to gain more for themselves?

Having money and pursuing it doesn't by itself advance society.
__________________
In search of meaning and purpose for life.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...postcount=2026
wrs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2015, 02:05 PM   #252
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 27,590
Originally Posted by wrs View Post
Having money and pursuing it doesn't by itself advance society.
Nor is that what he said.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th January 2015, 04:43 PM   #253
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by wrs View Post
Then why is Saudi Arabia pursuing a policy that hurts themselves by reducing their income in order to hurt others that they view as their competition? Does that stem from a view that they are going to work smarter and harder to gain more for themselves and their families? Did the people who figured out how to get oil out of the deep shale rock work smarter and harder to gain more for themselves?

Having money and pursuing it doesn't by itself advance society.
I never said having money or pursuing it advances society. Money is a resourse and allows us tobe more efficient. I could trade you and apple for an orange but if I need a car, do I have to harvest 12,000 apples? No, we use money. It makes the society much more efficient because money can be stored and wont rot or persish like apples or livestock.

Money made our lives better and more efficient and people innovate and invent things because it will allow them to gain and save money so they can get other things like a home or a boat. Without money, society is more likely to be a barter system which is not as efficient.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2015, 02:01 PM   #254
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
When i say some i don't mean all people. It is not money that some people like it is what they can get with it, they don't work for money, they work for what they can get with it, if they can. It would be the samething in a world of no money, people would work to have a better live.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-3-?cmpid=yhoo

Quote:
Bloomberg) -- Bill Gates gave $1.5 billion of Microsoft Corp. stock in November to the Gates Foundation Asset Trust, the entity that manages the foundation’s endowment, according to Amy Enright, a spokeswoman for the foundation.

The world’s richest man donated 31 million shares of the world’s biggest software maker, according to a Jan. 30 filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The transfer decreased his stake in the company he co-founded to 3 percent. Gates has a net worth of $82.9 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index.

Gavi, The Vaccine Alliance, the world’s biggest funder of vaccines for developing countries, announced Jan. 27 that it had received $7.5 billion in new pledges, including $1.55 billion from the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation.



The recent pledge to Gavi isn’t related to the SEC filing, according to Wendy Walker, a spokeswoman at the Gates foundation.

Gates historically has directed his philanthropic efforts through the organization, which works to fight polio, AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria, and strengthen health systems in developing countries, among other efforts. It donated $50 million in emergency funding to fight Ebola in West Africa in September.

The foundation had $42.3 billion in assets and had distributed $31.6 billion in grants through September, according to its website.

The billionaire said last month at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, that he expects a pair of advances by 2030 that will eliminate most of the damage from AIDS, the global epidemic that has killed more than 36 million people.

“We won’t see the end of AIDS,” Gates said at the conference. “But, both for malaria and AIDS, we’re seeing that the tools that let us do a 95 percent to 100 percent reduction, those tools will be invented during this 15-year period.”
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2015, 07:55 AM   #255
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
As i explained to you in the religion forum, what drives you to hell is not sins but injustice. The price you want to pay for the work of others is zero dollar and what you want to get paid for your work is the maximun of money you can get because you love yourself, and you want to get the maximum benifit for you that you can get. But Jésus Christ said that you have to love your neighbour like yourself, so the maximum you should get for your work have to be zero dollar, to be just, the same you want to pay, it has to be the same rule for others that you use for you, the price you want to pay for the work of others. So the vanish of money or any barter, this evil system, will avoid you to be in a state of injustice that drive you to hell. So what you gain from the abolition of money is the eternal live in heaven instead of living a couple of hendred years to hell. Does it make sense?
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2015, 08:16 AM   #256
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 11,011
Did they just give you back your internet privileges?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2015, 08:29 AM   #257
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 27,590
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
As i explained to you in the religion forum, what drives you to hell is not sins but injustice. The price you want to pay for the work of others is zero dollar and what you want to get paid for your work is the maximun of money you can get because you love yourself, and you want to get the maximum benifit for you that you can get. But Jésus Christ said that you have to love your neighbour like yourself, so the maximum you should get for your work have to be zero dollar, to be just, the same you want to pay, it has to be the same rule for others that you use for you, the price you want to pay for the work of others. So the vanish of money or any barter, this evil system, will avoid you to be in a state of injustice that drive you to hell. So what you gain from the abolition of money is the eternal live in heaven instead of living a couple of hendred years to hell. Does it make sense?
What about people who don't believe in your particular brand of religion nuttiness?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2015, 12:17 AM   #258
stevea
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,030
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
As i explained to you in the religion forum, what drives you to hell is not sins but injustice.
But this is an econ thread and you can't impose your beliefs & mythology as an argument.

Quote:
The price you want to pay for the work of others is zero dollar and what you want to get paid for your work is the maximun of money you can get [...]
But Jésus Christ said that you have to love your neighbour like yourself, so the maximum you should get for your work have to be zero dollar, to be just, the same you want to pay, it has to be the same rule for others that you use for you,
That is illogical. If " love your neighbour like yourself" means treat others as you would prefer to be treated, then the correct labor price is "maximun of money" and not zero. The labor rate would only be zero if jeebus said "love yourself the way you love others" which is the opposite!


Quote:
So the vanish of money or any barter, this evil system, will avoid you to be in a state of injustice that drive you to hell.
If your plan was implemented it would create a true hell on earth. How would farmers get equipment & fuel & fertilizer to grow crops ? How would these crops be distributed ? NONE of that happens without trade in the form of barter or monetary exchange. You may not understand, but 25-30% of the biosphere is dependent on the Haber-Bosch nitrogen fixing plants that would shut down, so withing 2-5 years we'd see billions of humans die - starving.


Quote:
So what you gain from the abolition of money is the eternal live in heaven instead of living a couple of hendred years to hell.
I consider your idiotic idea the true moral evil here; worse than Hitler, Mao & Stalin together.


Quote:
Does it make sense?
Not in any way. You are expressing your mythological beliefs in heaven & hell and a judgement scenario. On a forum for critical thought that's as irrelevant as arguing about whether Elmer Fudd ever caught Bugs Bunny - tho' far less interesting.
--

BTW you owe me for this reply, and you can send all your worldly assets to the address I will PM you. Otherwise you don't love me as yourself.

Last edited by stevea; 26th April 2015 at 12:18 AM.
stevea is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2015, 07:59 AM   #259
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by stevea View Post
That is illogical. If " love your neighbour like yourself" means treat others as you would prefer to be treated, then the correct labor price is "maximun of money" and not zero. The labor rate would only be zero if jeebus said "love yourself the way you love others" which is the opposite!
Sure if you want to pay the maximum price for the work of others, then you can charge the maximum price for your work, you'd be just, but that's not the way human being are made, the way human being are made is that they want to pay zero for the work of others and the maximum for their work, then if you abolish money and barter, this evil system, you accomplish what is just and avoid to be in a state of injustice. Do you understand what is simple to understand? We got to get rid of evil soul traps.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2015, 08:21 AM   #260
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 11,011
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Do you understand what is simple to understand?
No, I only understand complicated things.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2015, 08:26 AM   #261
Border Reiver
Philosopher
 
Border Reiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,855
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Sure if you want to pay the maximum price for the work of others, then you can charge the maximum price for your work, you'd be just, but that's not the way human being are made, the way human being are made is that they want to pay zero for the work of others and the maximum for their work, then if you abolish money and barter, this evil system, you accomplish what is just and avoid to be in a state of injustice. Do you understand what is simple to understand? We got to get rid of evil soul traps.

I've been staying away from this thread for a while.

You do realize that the "abolition of barter" is utterly impossible
Any kind of exchange is a form of barter, including leaving something at the side of the trail so that anyone who needs it and in hopes that you can get something else from wherever that you need.

Why do you want to turn us from a society of interconnected people to a number of individuals unable to interact with others.
__________________
Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks?
Border Reiver is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2015, 08:38 AM   #262
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rachel, KS
Posts: 27,590
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Sure if you want to pay the maximum price for the work of others, then you can charge the maximum price for your work, you'd be just, but that's not the way human being are made, the way human being are made is that they want to pay zero for the work of others and the maximum for their work, then if you abolish money and barter, this evil system, you accomplish what is just and avoid to be in a state of injustice. Do you understand what is simple to understand? We got to get rid of evil soul traps.
Who is the idiot that designed humans that way?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2015, 11:07 PM   #263
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Sure if you want to pay the maximum price for the work of others, then you can charge the maximum price for your work, you'd be just, but that's not the way human being are made, the way human being are made is that they want to pay zero for the work of others and the maximum for their work, then if you abolish money and barter, this evil system, you accomplish what is just and avoid to be in a state of injustice. Do you understand what is simple to understand? We got to get rid of evil soul traps.
And why would removal of money change the concept that people want to pay little for the work of others while receiving the maximum for their own work?

Instead of receiving $55 an hour for my business while paying out $7.25, Ill instead receive 25 chickens an hour and pay my employees 3 chickens per hour for their work.

Does that make things better?
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 07:05 AM   #264
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
And why would removal of money change the concept that people want to pay little for the work of others while receiving the maximum for their own work?

Instead of receiving $55 an hour for my business while paying out $7.25, Ill instead receive 25 chickens an hour and pay my employees 3 chickens per hour for their work.

Does that make things better?
My post talks about money but also his substitute, barter.

As i explained to you in the religion forum, what drives you to hell is not sins but injustice. The price you want to pay for the work of others is zero dollar and what you want to get paid for your work is the maximun of money you can get because you love yourself, and you want to get the maximum benifit for you that you can get. But Jésus Christ said that you have to love your neighbour like yourself, so the maximum you should get for your work have to be zero dollar, to be just, the same you want to pay, it has to be the same rule for others that you use for you, the price you want to pay for the work of others. So the vanish of money or any barter, this evil system, will avoid you to be in a state of injustice that drive you to hell. So what you gain from the abolition of money is the eternal live in heaven instead of living a couple of hendred years to hell. Does it make sense?
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 07:55 AM   #265
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,930
Heaven and hell don't exist.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 10:20 AM   #266
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
My post talks about money but also his substitute, barter.

As i explained to you in the religion forum, what drives you to hell is not sins but injustice. The price you want to pay for the work of others is zero dollar and what you want to get paid for your work is the maximun of money you can get because you love yourself, and you want to get the maximum benifit for you that you can get. But Jésus Christ said that you have to love your neighbour like yourself, so the maximum you should get for your work have to be zero dollar, to be just, the same you want to pay, it has to be the same rule for others that you use for you, the price you want to pay for the work of others. So the vanish of money or any barter, this evil system, will avoid you to be in a state of injustice that drive you to hell. So what you gain from the abolition of money is the eternal live in heaven instead of living a couple of hendred years to hell. Does it make sense?
The Bible doesn't say anything about the abolition of money as a requirement to achieve eternal life. Also, my neighbors don't work for me so your argument is moot.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 11:34 AM   #267
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
The Bible doesn't say anything about the abolition of money as a requirement to achieve eternal life. Also, my neighbors don't work for me so your argument is moot.
We discussed about it before, there are numbers of passage in the Bible saying that you cannot serve God and money like this one:

“One who is rfaithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in sthat which is another's, who will give you that which is your own? 13 pNo servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

That means that it doesn't matter about the amount of money you said, you love, or you dealing with, you can't be rightfull anyway, you can't serve God and money
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 01:06 PM   #268
MinnesotaBrant
Illuminator
 
MinnesotaBrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,049
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
We discussed about it before, there are numbers of passage in the Bible saying that you cannot serve God and money like this one:

“One who is rfaithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in sthat which is another's, who will give you that which is your own? 13 pNo servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

That means that it doesn't matter about the amount of money you said, you love, or you dealing with, you can't be rightfull anyway, you can't serve God and money
Try writing Love on a piece of paper and putting that in the collection plate next time you go there. Church is usually all about the money first and hearts and minds second.
__________________
Formerly known as MNBrant.
MinnesotaBrant is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 04:15 PM   #269
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by MinnesotaBrant View Post
Church is usually all about the money first and hearts and minds second.
This is because that instead of following the teaching of Jesus, they follow the capitalist drilling rules they teach you every day in the media to wash your brain to fill up the bank account of rich people.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 04:39 PM   #270
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
We discussed about it before, there are numbers of passage in the Bible saying that you cannot serve God and money like this one:

“One who is rfaithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. 11 If then you have not been faithful in the unrighteous wealth, who will entrust to you the true riches? 12 And if you have not been faithful in sthat which is another's, who will give you that which is your own? 13 pNo servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.”

That means that it doesn't matter about the amount of money you said, you love, or you dealing with, you can't be rightfull anyway, you can't serve God and money
You can have money and still serve God. Jesus said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 05:14 PM   #271
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
You can have money and still serve God. Jesus said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God.
How can you achieve that?

If you charge the maximum for your work and you pay the maximum for the work of others, you're a just, you go to heaven.

If you charge the minimum for your work and you pay the minimum for the work of others, you are a just, you go to heaven.

If you charge the minimum for your work and you pay the maximum for the work of others, you're a Saint and you go to heaven.

If you pay the minimum for the work of others and you charge the maximum for your work, what almost all people do, i mean all people want to get paid the maximum for their work and pay the minimum for the work of others, it is not always what you can do but that's what if in anyway be able to do you would do, you go to hell because you are unjust, then the best way is to remouve that evil system that trap souls to hell.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 05:48 PM   #272
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
How can you achieve that?

If you charge the maximum for your work and you pay the maximum for the work of others, you're a just, you go to heaven.

If you charge the minimum for your work and you pay the minimum for the work of others, you are a just, you go to heaven.

If you charge the minimum for your work and you pay the maximum for the work of others, you're a Saint and you go to heaven.
None of these concepts are in the Bible.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If you pay the minimum for the work of others and you charge the maximum for your work, what almost all people do, i mean all people want to get paid the maximum for their work and pay the minimum for the work of others, it is not always what you can do but that's what if in anyway be able to do you would do, you go to hell because you are unjust, then the best way is to remouve that evil system that trap souls to hell.
Which one of these are you Gaetan? Do you work for free or are you doomed as well?
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 07:03 PM   #273
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
None of these concepts are in the Bible.
Yes they are because when Jesus said that the golden rule is the Law and to love your neighbour like yourself, it is all a matter of justice, that commendment and law are concept of justice, love your neighbour like yourself is to treat your neighbour like yourself and the golden rule says to treat your neighbour like you want to be treated by him. When i say if you pay the max for the work of other and you charge the max for your work, you respect that rule, the same for min. and minimum. If you charge the max and you pay the min. for the work of others you don't respect that rule of justice. Just think, while you get well paid for your work, you buy the best quality at the cheapest price you can get and those workers making the product are paid the minimum wage, that's where they get you.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 07:07 PM   #274
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes they are because when Jesus said that the golden rule is the Law and to love your neighbour like yourself, it is all a matter of justice, that commendment and law are concept of justice, love your neighbour like yourself is to treat your neighbour like yourself and the golden rule says to treat your neighbour like you want to be treated by him. When i say if you pay the max for the work of other and you charge the max for your work, you respect that rule, the same for min. and minimum. If you charge the max and you pay the min. for the work of others you don't respect that rule of justice. Just think, while you get well paid for your work, you buy the best quality at the cheapest price you can get and those workers making the product are paid the minimum wage, that's where they get you.
So do you work for free Gaetan? Or are you doomed to hell?
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2015, 10:23 PM   #275
Little 10 Toes
Graduate Poster
 
Little 10 Toes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,808
Gaetan, the Parable of the Talents show that it's ok to make money. So you're wrong. Once again.
Little 10 Toes is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th April 2015, 07:31 AM   #276
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes View Post
Gaetan, the Parable of the Talents show that it's ok to make money. So you're wrong. Once again.
No we discussed about it before because the servant was blamed because he hid the money instead of sharing the money and spend it what makes the money useless, the circulation of money makes the money useless, the problem with money is that it is obviously get stuck in the hand of rich people and is not redistributed. That's why that system doesn't work, to make it work we got to have laws but who makes the laws, rich people.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th April 2015, 09:42 AM   #277
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Next door to Florida Man, world's worst superhero.
Posts: 13,654
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
No we discussed about it before because the servant was blamed because he hid the money instead of sharing the money and spend it what makes the money useless, the circulation of money makes the money useless, the problem with money is that it is obviously get stuck in the hand of rich people and is not redistributed. That's why that system doesn't work, to make it work we got to have laws but who makes the laws, rich people.
You're wrong about this. The parable is clear that the person should have invested the money. You want it to mean something else but it doesn't.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th April 2015, 10:22 AM   #278
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
No we discussed about it before because the servant was blamed because he hid the money instead of sharing the money and spend it what makes the money useless, the circulation of money makes the money useless, the problem with money is that it is obviously get stuck in the hand of rich people and is not redistributed. That's why that system doesn't work, to make it work we got to have laws but who makes the laws, rich people.
So now you're moving the goal posts. Earlier you were saying everyone should work for free. You never answered my question about whether you yourself work for free or are you destined for hell because you work for money (your words).

Now you've changed the subject to redistribution.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th April 2015, 01:28 PM   #279
Gaetan
Master Poster
 
Gaetan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,371
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You're wrong about this. The parable is clear that the person should have invested the money. You want it to mean something else but it doesn't.
Yes but invest the money means to redistrubute it and make it useless because when everybody got a fair amount of money it is just the samething as not using it, because you just pay when you consume and get paid the same amount when you work, it is useless to use money. That's what cause misery, money is not redistributed, some have too much means some don't have enough.
Gaetan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th April 2015, 02:08 PM   #280
Joecool
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,998
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes but invest the money means to redistrubute it and make it useless because when everybody got a fair amount of money it is just the samething as not using it, because you just pay when you consume and get paid the same amount when you work, it is useless to use money. That's what cause misery, money is not redistributed, some have too much means some don't have enough.
The story was about how someone should have invested the money to make more. The parable goes on and says (not verbatim) to whoever has much will be given even more and the man who failed to invest, had his taken away and given to the one who invested well.

Jesus also said in Mark 14:7
Quote:
The poor you will always have with you,[a] and you can help them any time you want.
The Bible is saying the exact opposite of what you claim, even though you seem to have misunderstood the parable.
Joecool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Economics, Business and Finance

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:51 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.