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Old 28th April 2015, 06:59 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
The story was about how someone should have invested the money to make more. The parable goes on and says (not verbatim) to whoever has much will be given even more and the man who failed to invest, had his taken away and given to the one who invested well.

Jesus also said in Mark 14:7

The Bible is saying the exact opposite of what you claim, even though you seem to have misunderstood the parable.
The parable of the talent talks about redistribution of money that what it comes up in anyway, and you see me as your enemy but i am just trying to save your live.
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Old 28th April 2015, 07:08 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
The parable of the talent talks about redistribution of money that what it comes up in anyway, and you see me as your enemy but i am just trying to save your live.
Here is a part of the parable for reference:

Quote:
26 But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
The man who invested well was given more and the one who had his talent taken away from him was cast into the outer darkness.

Gaetan, you have the parable completely wrong. The rich man (who invested) got richer and the poor man had nothing and was sent to where there was weeping and knashing of teeth.

This parable is saying exactly the opposite of what you are saying.
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Old 28th April 2015, 08:18 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Here is a part of the parable for reference:



The man who invested well was given more and the one who had his talent taken away from him was cast into the outer darkness.

Gaetan, you have the parable completely wrong. The rich man (who invested) got richer and the poor man had nothing and was sent to where there was weeping and knashing of teeth.

This parable is saying exactly the opposite of what you are saying.
But what it comes uo to: the ones who share the money goes to heaven and the one who doesn't go to hell, that's what the parable is saying. Don't look every words but look at the result
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Old 29th April 2015, 12:18 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
But what it comes uo to: the ones who share the money goes to heaven and the one who doesn't go to hell, that's what the parable is saying. Don't look every words but look at the result
The parable doesn't say or imply that at all. In the parable, the one who made the most money was given more because he invested wisely. The one who was irresponsible and did nothing with the money was cast out into the darkness.

That is exactly the opposite of what you are saying. That explains why the rich have more and the poor have less. You have proven that inequality is okay.

By the way, you didn't answer my question about whether you work for free or if you are doomed to hell for working for a profit.
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Old 29th April 2015, 01:30 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Don't look every words but look at the result
The standard response of everybody who disagrees with the words in the bible.
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Old 29th April 2015, 08:23 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
The parable doesn't say or imply that at all. In the parable, the one who made the most money was given more because he invested wisely. The one who was irresponsible and did nothing with the money was cast out into the darkness.

That is exactly the opposite of what you are saying. That explains why the rich have more and the poor have less. You have proven that inequality is okay.

By the way, you didn't answer my question about whether you work for free or if you are doomed to hell for working for a profit.
What this parable says is the ones who share the money goes to heaven and the one who didn't goes to hell, that's what it comes up to, because what you really do when you invest the money, you share it. If i got 50,000$ and i start a small business, i hire people, what i really do is to share money with workers and redistribute it. Then this parable is an economy course 101, the money have to circulate, shared, because it can only produce starvation if it doesn't, now do you understand to what Jesus comes up to.
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Old 29th April 2015, 10:00 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What this parable says is the ones who share the money goes to heaven and the one who didn't goes to hell, that's what it comes up to, because what you really do when you invest the money, you share it. If i got 50,000$ and i start a small business, i hire people, what i really do is to share money with workers and redistribute it. Then this parable is an economy course 101, the money have to circulate, shared, because it can only produce starvation if it doesn't, now do you understand to what Jesus comes up to.
But that isn't what the parable said. In the parable, the one who invested and made the most profit was given more and exalted. The miserly one who did nothing with the money had the little taken away and cast out. It tells me that we need to make money and invest wisely or end up out in the cold with nothing.

Gaetan, you never answered my question. Do you work for free or are you destined for hell?
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Old 29th April 2015, 04:00 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
But that isn't what the parable said. In the parable, the one who invested and made the most profit was given more and exalted. The miserly one who did nothing with the money had the little taken away and cast out. It tells me that we need to make money and invest wisely or end up out in the cold with nothing.
What the parable says for all practical purpose is that the ones who shared the money go to heaven and the one who didn't goes to hell, that's what Jesus Christ teach to rich, they got to share their money with poors, the parable doesn't say anything else that Jesus teach all the time.
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Old 29th April 2015, 04:13 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What the parable says for all practical purpose is that the ones who shared the money go to heaven and the one who didn't goes to hell, that's what Jesus Christ teach to rich, they got to share their money with poors, the parable doesn't say anything else that Jesus teach all the time.
The parable doesn't mention or imply sharing in any way shape or form. There were three men. One invested 5 talents and doubled his investment. Another man had two talents and invested that and doubled it. The third man did nothing with the talent and it gained nothing.

The master took away the talent from the man who did nothing and gave it to the man who already had 10.

The parable is showing that if you have more and invest wisely, then you get even more. If you don't invest, then you get nothing and cast out.

It's almost confirming that it's okay to accumulate wealth. Maybe God expects one to share it but it wasn't the point of this parable.
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Old 29th April 2015, 04:20 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
The master took away the talent from the man who did nothing and gave it to the man who already had 10.
Because he didn't share the money with poors, people with no job. That's what happen during the crisis, rich kept the money for them, so what the government did was to borrow them the money and share it with poors to get the money circulate and rebuild the economy, but what they should really do was to simply take their money seating in the bank and redistribute it.
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Old 29th April 2015, 04:24 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Because he didn't share the money with poors, people with no job. That's what happen during the crisis, rich kept the money for them, so what the government did was to borrow them the money and share it with poors to get the money circulate and rebuild the economy, but what they should really do was to simply take their money seating in the bank and redistribute it.
The other men didn't share their money with the poors either but they still prospered and got even more money. This parable is actually saying it's okay to gain wealth.

Gaetan, do you work for free or are you destined for hell?
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Old 29th April 2015, 05:20 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
This parable is actually saying it's okay to gain wealth.
Off course it is OK to gain wealth because we want to live in heaven not in misery like hell, but it can't be achieve with a system like barter and money because the there are too many rich who do like the bad servant and don't share the money.
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Old 29th April 2015, 05:28 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Off course it is OK to gain wealth because we want to live in heaven not in misery like hell, but it can't be achieve with a system like barter and money because the there are too many rich who do like the bad servant and don't share the money.
Well, what people do with their money is their business. The government, at least the US already redistributes money. They collect taxes and fees and they issue money and other assistance to the needy. People also give to churches and charity and in turn, they also provide help to the needy.

Your notion that having no money simply will not work because our ability to collect and store resources would be hindered and trade would slow down or stop. Your idea would actually make it harder for people to help the needy.

Instead of sending money to a needy person who can then buy food, maybe would send food, but it might spoil before reaching its destination and then it would be for nothing.
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Old 29th April 2015, 07:16 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Well, what people do with their money is their business. The government, at least the US already redistributes money. They collect taxes and fees and they issue money and other assistance to the needy. People also give to churches and charity and in turn, they also provide help to the needy.

Your notion that having no money simply will not work because our ability to collect and store resources would be hindered and trade would slow down or stop. Your idea would actually make it harder for people to help the needy.

Instead of sending money to a needy person who can then buy food, maybe would send food, but it might spoil before reaching its destination and then it would be for nothing.
Any bees, nor any live being need money to work, not even a bacteria, why would human need it. Money have been invented by criminal Kings or dictators to take advantage of their population but it didn't change it is now use by the elite.
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Old 29th April 2015, 08:59 PM   #295
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WOO-HOO!!!!!! I'm part of the elite! I got paid today!
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Old 30th April 2015, 05:05 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Any bees, nor any live being need money to work, not even a bacteria, why would human need it. Money have been invented by criminal Kings or dictators to take advantage of their population but it didn't change it is now use by the elite.
Money developed in order to facilitate the exchange of goods and services. It is much easier to get that pair of shoes if you have the monetary equivalent of the pair of shoes, vice figuring out if the cobbler needs beer/a chicken/a tumble with the temple prostitute, etc. and is willing to exchange the shoes for said item.

As to other creatures not using money, chimps have been observed trading extra portions of food (usually meat) for sex.
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Old 30th April 2015, 11:08 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Any bees, nor any live being need money to work, not even a bacteria, why would human need it. Money have been invented by criminal Kings or dictators to take advantage of their population but it didn't change it is now use by the elite.
Bees are all slaves, working for the colony and the queen.

Money is not evil. Money is just an efficient way to trade good and services. How someone uses money can be good or evil.

I'm not sure why Gaetan is having trouble with this concept.
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Old 30th April 2015, 03:46 PM   #298
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The parable in question has nothing to do with money. There are many interpretations but money ain't one.
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Old 30th April 2015, 05:25 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post


The parable in question has nothing to do with money. There are many interpretations but money ain't one.
No, that parable should be taken almost literaly, it is all about money, it is that Jesus was trap in an evil world of money, a trap to send people to hell, but what can he says, then he said to share it " invest it" "distribute it" That what he said, that's all he can do until someone, people light up and get rid of it.
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Old 30th April 2015, 06:29 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
No, that parable should be taken almost literaly, it is all about money, it is that Jesus was trap in an evil world of money, a trap to send people to hell, but what can he says, then he said to share it " invest it" "distribute it" That what he said, that's all he can do until someone, people light up and get rid of it.
If the parable is to be taken literally, then we should be investing to make more money because the guy who had little had it taken away from him and he was cast out where there was weeping and knashing of teeth.

Funny how you say to take it literally but you don't do so yourself.
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Old 30th April 2015, 06:35 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
If the parable is to be taken literally, then we should be investing to make more money because the guy who had little had it taken away from him and he was cast out where there was weeping and knashing of teeth.

Funny how you say to take it literally but you don't do so yourself.
What Jesus said was in the goal of damage control, he was in a world of money so all he could say was to share it in any way or words he could say it to avoid his evil effect.

Last edited by Gaetan; 30th April 2015 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 30th April 2015, 08:29 PM   #302
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But the parable has nothing to do with heaven or hell when taken literally.
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Old 1st May 2015, 10:39 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What Jesus said was in the goal of damage control, he was in a world of money so all he could say was to share it in any way or words he could say it to avoid his evil effect.
Sharing wealth with the poor doesn't mean I should give all my resources away or that I should work for free.

In all walks of life, people have different skills and abilities. Some people are better at certain things. If those things carry value to society, the you have the potential to earn more.

While Jesus says we should share with the poor, he didn't say we should give everything away and become poor.
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Old 2nd May 2015, 05:38 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Sharing wealth with the poor doesn't mean I should give all my resources away or that I should work for free.

In all walks of life, people have different skills and abilities. Some people are better at certain things. If those things carry value to society, the you have the potential to earn more.

While Jesus says we should share with the poor, he didn't say we should give everything away and become poor.
Remember i showed statistics that proove that few rich own the planet and it won't change because they own the medias and they program the population to always elect their people. Then there is absolutely no democracy, kaos only makes them more rich. I am worry about the future because everything will be done by robots and nobody will have a job, then we got to change that money system and get rid of it.
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Old 2nd May 2015, 06:37 AM   #305
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You have to remember the context of Jesus. I.e. Everything was different then compared to even the 1700s. The Industrial, and later Digital, Revolutions have changed the nature of the economy, with Money no longer tied to gold or the means of production changing from Land to Factories to Computers.
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Old 2nd May 2015, 01:39 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Sure if you want to pay the maximum price for the work of others, then you can charge the maximum price for your work, you'd be just, but that's not the way human being are made, the way human being are made is that they want to pay zero for the work of others and the maximum for their work, then if you abolish money and barter, this evil system, you accomplish what is just and avoid to be in a state of injustice. Do you understand what is simple to understand? We got to get rid of evil soul traps.

You failed to understand the argument.

YOU said that you preferred to be paid the maximum (I agree).
YOU said that God commands YOU to pay others the way YOU want to be paid ...
therefore your conclusion that YOU should pay OTHERS ZERO amount is very wrong; the opposite of what you are commanded.

Your god wasn't commanding you to pay nothing and therefore use no money - just the opposite - your god prefers a very high velocity of money.

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It's not about what I want at all. I prefer that you go to Troll heaven immediately.


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You also failed to answer the most basic question. How can an economy work w/o money, and what are the consequences of the economic failure your preferred outcome would require.

If you think ppl are poor now, wait until the economy and food & energy stop.
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Old 2nd May 2015, 02:10 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Remember i showed statistics that proove that few rich own the planet and it won't change because they own the medias and they program the population to always elect their people. Then there is absolutely no democracy, kaos only makes them more rich. I am worry about the future because everything will be done by robots and nobody will have a job, then we got to change that money system and get rid of it.

What you fail to understand is that the poor are also vastly richer than a few decades ago.

Your error is obvious. That others have more does not mean that you have less. It's NOT a zero-sum game. The total wealth of the planet is vastly greater than a century ago.
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Old 4th May 2015, 05:43 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Remember i showed statistics that proove that few rich own the planet and it won't change because they own the medias and they program the population to always elect their people. Then there is absolutely no democracy, kaos only makes them more rich. I am worry about the future because everything will be done by robots and nobody will have a job, then we got to change that money system and get rid of it.
You made the claim but you didn't post any stats that proved your clain.

Why are you against robots? They don't have to be paid any money!!!!
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Old 3rd June 2015, 09:58 PM   #309
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May i tell you again: With money your profit is to charge the maximum for your work and to pay the minimum for the work of others, then your profit is to foul your neighbour with money, while without money your profit is to help your neighbour so that he helps you in return, then mutual help. Don't you find it more civilized.
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Old 3rd June 2015, 11:10 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
May i tell you again: With money your profit is to charge the maximum for your work and to pay the minimum for the work of others, then your profit is to foul your neighbour with money, while without money your profit is to help your neighbour so that he helps you in return, then mutual help. Don't you find it more civilized.
Well no, you may not so tell me. Because it is utter rubbish, and it isn't more civilised, it is no more than an invitation to savagery.

Everything you have proposed to date invites barbaric behaviour which goes against all conscience. The only way one could propose this is if one had no conscience.
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Old 4th June 2015, 11:22 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
May i tell you again: With money your profit is to charge the maximum for your work and to pay the minimum for the work of others, then your profit is to foul your neighbour with money, while without money your profit is to help your neighbour so that he helps you in return, then mutual help. Don't you find it more civilized.
I think I have finally seen light and the wisdom of your plan has finally sunk in.

Let me try to implement you plan. I will mow your lawn and in return, you will build a house for me. Is that how your plan is supposed to work?

Or I can give you an apple and in return, you will give me steak and lobster?
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Old 4th June 2015, 11:44 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
May i tell you again: With money your profit is to charge the maximum for your work and to pay the minimum for the work of others, then your profit is to foul your neighbour with money, while without money your profit is to help your neighbour so that he helps you in return, then mutual help. Don't you find it more civilized.
It is actually less civilized. Civilization flourished after we supplanted barter systems with monetary systems. Large industrialized civilization wouldn't be possible if the only option was barter.

You may certainly tell me that but you would be wrong.
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Old 4th June 2015, 12:59 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I think I have finally seen light and the wisdom of your plan has finally sunk in.

Let me try to implement you plan. I will mow your lawn and in return, you will build a house for me. Is that how your plan is supposed to work?

Or I can give you an apple and in return, you will give me steak and lobster?
You got it, mutual aid, in your system, there is obligation to give something in exchange and it can't work because not all people have something to give in exchange, in my system, there is no obligation to give something, understand.
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Old 4th June 2015, 01:05 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
in my system, there is no obligation to give something, understand.
That isn't what you said:

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
while without money your profit is to help your neighbour so that he helps you in return, then mutual help.
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Old 4th June 2015, 01:08 PM   #315
abaddon
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You got it, mutual aid, in your system, there is obligation to give something in exchange and it can't work because not all people have something to give in exchange, in my system, there is no obligation to give something, understand.
Wait, What? If I mowed your lawn would you give me a brand new car? Even if there is no obligation to do so?
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Old 4th June 2015, 02:19 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
That isn't what you said:
Yes but the specific guy you help doesn't have to give you something but the x10 help will do it for him, wouldn't it work more easy this way.
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Old 4th June 2015, 02:27 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes but the specific guy you help doesn't have to give you something but the x10 help will do it for him, wouldn't it work more easy this way.
That isn't what you said but No, it wouldn't work more easy that way. It doesn't work at all. People aren't that charitable. What made you think they were?
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Old 4th June 2015, 03:11 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You got it, mutual aid, in your system, there is obligation to give something in exchange and it can't work because not all people have something to give in exchange, in my system, there is no obligation to give something, understand.
So ok, build my new house, and give me the keys to move in. After that, I can promise you I will gladly mow your lawn. After that exchange, we can do the apple for steak and lobster exchange.
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Old 4th June 2015, 03:31 PM   #319
Gaetan
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
So ok, build my new house, and give me the keys to move in. After that, I can promise you I will gladly mow your lawn. After that exchange, we can do the apple for steak and lobster exchange.
It isn't hard to understand that your system can't work because 3/4 of the world population can't give you what you want in exchange: "money"
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Old 4th June 2015, 07:27 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
It isn't hard to understand that your system can't work because 3/4 of the world population can't give you what you want in exchange: "money"
I would accept a Challenger Hellcat in place of "money".
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