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Old 4th June 2015, 09:18 PM   #321
Gaetan
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
I would accept a Challenger Hellcat in place of "money".
Ok but you won't get that from the specific guy you work for yesterday but it'll come to you anyway by other hands, do you understand now.

Last edited by Gaetan; 4th June 2015 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 5th June 2015, 06:31 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ok but you won't get that from the specific guy you work for yesterday but it'll come to you anyway by other hands, do you understand now.
Nobody has given me a Challenger Hellcat. Do you understand now?
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Old 5th June 2015, 08:31 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Yes but invest the money means to redistrubute it and make it useless because when everybody got a fair amount of money it is just the samething as not using it, because you just pay when you consume and get paid the same amount when you work, it is useless to use money. That's what cause misery, money is not redistributed, some have too much means some don't have enough.
( OK I know it's like teaching a pig to sing but ... )

NO - WRONG ! The relative prices of goods and services, in competitive markets, reflect the relative cost. That's why prices of a lot of agricultural goods fluctuate with the season. So prices carry important information that enables and encourages entire societies to choose efficient use of their resources. Maybe everyone prefers to eat grapes in Winter too - but the imported grapes from the other hemisphere are more expensives - this indicates that these really cost more to bring to market. Winter grapes use more resources to provide. Their higher prices not only inform buyers of this fact, but it encourages buyers to choose less expensive alternatives - alternatives that use less of societies resources.

This also applies to labor. Someone might pay you $100k to use your skills as a Chemical Engineer, but only $25k to flip burgers. This labor pricing carries information that should motivate you to use your most valuable skills in the service of others.

Your positions are provably wrong and childishly over-simplistic, and you refuse to either create a logical argument or support your claims with evidence.
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Old 5th June 2015, 11:19 AM   #324
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This has been discussed with Gaetan many times. Is there is no money or if there is even distribution to all, why would anyone spend years and all the hardship to become a doctor when I can flip burgers and have the same quality of life? Who's going to clean sewers and fix electrical lines when I could be doing something easier indoors?

There will be no incentive to excel at anything and our society will actually go backwards rather than advancing.
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Old 5th June 2015, 01:05 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Ok but you won't get that from the specific guy you work for yesterday but it'll come to you anyway by other hands, do you understand now.
So if I mow your lawn, you won't build me a house, in fact you will give me nothing and expect others to build me a house.
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Old 6th June 2015, 12:05 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
This has been discussed with Gaetan many times. Is there is no money or if there is even distribution to all, why would anyone spend years and all the hardship to become a doctor when I can flip burgers and have the same quality of life? Who's going to clean sewers and fix electrical lines when I could be doing something easier indoors?

There will be no incentive to excel at anything and our society will actually go backwards rather than advancing.
What you say is wrong because people don't have the same interest, for exemple when a guy doesn't even know about the name of the president he could be able to mount an engine motor from A to Z. Some people could have interest in making burgers and serving Customer while others wouldn't like it and rather to be a medical surgeon. With money you can't realize your dream what you really like to do because if you have interest in doing an electrical engineer you might no money to study to an university while a guy if all he wants to do is to make burger but as it doesn't pay enough and his father had money he studied in an university to do a job more paying but what he doesn't like to do.

What interest people about politic or cars motor, not money, without money people would be able to do his hobby for free.

Last edited by Gaetan; 6th June 2015 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 7th June 2015, 11:10 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
This has been discussed with Gaetan many times. Is there is no money or if there is even distribution to all, why would anyone spend years and all the hardship to become a doctor when I can flip burgers and have the same quality of life? Who's going to clean sewers and fix electrical lines when I could be doing something easier indoors?

There will be no incentive to excel at anything and our society will actually go backwards rather than advancing.
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
What you say is wrong because people don't have the same interest, for exemple when a guy doesn't even know about the name of the president he could be able to mount an engine motor from A to Z. Some people could have interest in making burgers and serving Customer while others wouldn't like it and rather to be a medical surgeon. With money you can't realize your dream what you really like to do because if you have interest in doing an electrical engineer you might no money to study to an university while a guy if all he wants to do is to make burger but as it doesn't pay enough and his father had money he studied in an university to do a job more paying but what he doesn't like to do.

What interest people about politic or cars motor, not money, without money people would be able to do his hobby for free.
So people won't have to clean sewer pipes because it's not someone's hobby. But pipes will still need to get cleaned.

Let's say my hobby is playing video games. Not making, programming, debugging, marketing, distributing, or selling them, but playing them. I do not return anything back to society because it is my hobby. How will I get food, electricity, dwelling, new games, batteries, new tv, and game systems if my hobby is now the main thing that I do?

[edit]
I used to work in food/drink service. I loved my job and customer interaction. Why should I serve someone when I don't get tips and customers can act like douche-bags because they want to?

I have a relative who loves computers as a hobby, but my relative did not go into any computer related field when completing 4 years at university. My relative wanted to keep the computer as a hobby so that the enjoyment is fresh at all times.
[/edit]

Oh, and remind me Gaetan, what you do for money?

Last edited by Little 10 Toes; 7th June 2015 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 7th June 2015, 12:59 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Little 10 Toes View Post

[edit]
I used to work in food/drink service. I loved my job and customer interaction. Why should I serve someone when I don't get tips and customers can act like douche-bags because they want to?
Under no money it wouldn't be necessary to be paid or receive tip for what you love to do because everything will be free.
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Old 7th June 2015, 02:28 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under no money it wouldn't be necessary to be paid or receive tip for what you love to do because everything will be free.
It won't be necessary only because we'll all be living in caves in small tribal units at war with all other tribal units for scarce resources.
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Old 7th June 2015, 03:42 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under no money it wouldn't be necessary to be paid or receive tip for what you love to do because everything will be free.
Ah, well then why should I work then?

I also notice that you missed the important questions:

If no one's hobby is cleaning sewer pipes, who will clean the sewer pipes?

What do you do for income Gaetan?
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Old 7th June 2015, 06:05 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
It won't be necessary only because we'll all be living in caves in small tribal units at war with all other tribal units for scarce resources.

And then small tribal units will band together for mutual benefit - say protection, or conquest, or both. Those larger tribal units will develop systems of exchange to ease economic transactions and lo, money returns.
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Old 7th June 2015, 06:40 PM   #332
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Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
And then small tribal units will band together for mutual benefit - say protection, or conquest, or both. Those larger tribal units will develop systems of exchange to ease economic transactions and lo, money returns.
Unless we can replace money with tokens.
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Old 7th June 2015, 06:45 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under no money it wouldn't be necessary to be paid or receive tip for what you love to do because everything will be free.
I think we covered this before. If everyone did what they enjoyed, nobody would be doing what's necessary for society.

Nobody is going to do unpleasant tasks if they can be playing video games or golfing.
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Old 8th June 2015, 09:51 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I think we covered this before. If everyone did what they enjoyed, nobody would be doing what's necessary for society.

Nobody is going to do unpleasant tasks if they can be playing video games or golfing.
Miss Little Toes said that she loves to do it and a lot of people love to do it by pleasure, they don't need to be paid because everything is free. If you don't want to do anything we'll make robot to do your task.
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Old 8th June 2015, 10:10 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Miss Little Toes said that she loves to do it and a lot of people love to do it by pleasure, they don't need to be paid because everything is free. If you don't want to do anything we'll make robot to do your task.
LOL. How many of those robots have you made?
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Old 8th June 2015, 12:17 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Miss Little Toes said that she loves to do it and a lot of people love to do it by pleasure, they don't need to be paid because everything is free. If you don't want to do anything we'll make robot to do your task.
Well, why didn't you say you get just get robots to do our bidding? If the robots can build houses and clean our toilets, I'll pursue activities I enjoy like golfing and editing bikini magazines. Are robots the same and djinns and genies?
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Old 8th June 2015, 04:40 PM   #337
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[quote=Joecool;10698332]Well, why didn't you say you get just get robots to do our bidding? If the robots can build houses and clean our toilets, I'll pursue activities I enjoy like golfing and editing bikini magazines. Are robots the same and djinns and genies?[/QUO

Some people like to clean anything, maybe you don't like it but as i told you people have different interest, what people think it is that they have the same interest as they have but it isn't true. If you don't like to clean it doesn't mean that everybody are like you, that's what you think but it isn't true, as i told you some people are interested by politic but others don't even know the name of your president because they have absolutely no interest for politic.
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Old 8th June 2015, 04:43 PM   #338
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Well, why didn't you say you get just get robots to do our bidding? If the robots can build houses and clean our toilets, I'll pursue activities I enjoy like golfing and editing bikini magazines. Are robots the same and djinns and genies?
Some people like to clean anything, maybe you don't like it but as i told you people have different interest, what people think it is that they have the same interest as they have but it isn't true. If you don't like to clean it doesn't mean that everybody are like you, that's what you think but it isn't true, as i told you some people are interested by politic but others don't even know the name of your president because they have absolutely no interest for politic.
You did say that but everyone else told you you're wrong. Do you have anything correct to say?

Note: I fixed the quote tags and nobody paid me to do it.
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Old 8th June 2015, 05:10 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Well, why didn't you say you get just get robots to do our bidding? If the robots can build houses and clean our toilets, I'll pursue activities I enjoy like golfing and editing bikini magazines. Are robots the same and djinns and genies?
Some people like to clean anything, maybe you don't like it but as i told you people have different interest, what people think it is that they have the same interest as they have but it isn't true. If you don't like to clean it doesn't mean that everybody are like you, that's what you think but it isn't true, as i told you some people are interested by politic but others don't even know the name of your president because they have absolutely no interest for politic.
So can you give us one real life example of a modern and advanced society where people just do unpleasant tasks such as cleaning toilets because they enjoy doing it? I know of given a choice, I would imagine that 100% of people would choose more pleasant tasks like golfing for a living, or being a wine taster, or a bikini magazine editor.
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Old 8th June 2015, 09:30 PM   #340
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Quote:
So can you give us one real life example of a modern and advanced society where people just do unpleasant tasks such as cleaning toilets because they enjoy doing it? I know of given a choice, I would imagine that 100% of people would choose more pleasant tasks like golfing for a living, or being a wine taster, or a bikini magazine editor.
You cannot refer to yourself because if you do that it is not true, a lot of people like cleaning even if you don't like it.
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Old 8th June 2015, 09:37 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You cannot refer to yourself because if you do that it is not true, a lot of people like cleaning even if you don't like it.
Yes, we can refer to ourselves, Gaetan. Our honest opinions are true for us, although they may not be true for anyone else.

I would never under any circumstances spend My life working for free at a job that I hated. Either you pay Me a lot of money to do dirty, unsafe, unpleasant or boring work, or I just walk out the door.
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Old 9th June 2015, 05:46 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You cannot refer to yourself because if you do that it is not true, a lot of people like cleaning even if you don't like it.
You've decided to say untrue things again? You come clean my house and pay special attention to scrubbing the toilets. I'll be busy photographing bikini models. If you aren't here by 6:00 pm this evening, I'll assume that you also know that you tell untruths.
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Old 9th June 2015, 09:32 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
You've decided to say untrue things again? You come clean my house and pay special attention to scrubbing the toilets. I'll be busy photographing bikini models. If you aren't here by 6:00 pm this evening, I'll assume that you also know that you tell untruths.
I told you before you got to spend 6 years to study art in an university to be allowed to photograh thise bikini models.
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Old 9th June 2015, 09:38 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I told you before you got to spend 6 years to study art in an university to be allowed to photograh thise bikini models.
Who is going to not allow me to photograph bikini models? This is simply another of your untruths that you tell people.
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Old 9th June 2015, 09:42 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
You did say that but everyone else told you you're wrong. Do you have anything correct to say?

Note: I fixed the quote tags and nobody paid me to do it.
I will definitely build you a Lambo out of sheer gratitude.
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Old 9th June 2015, 09:43 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I told you before you got to spend 6 years to study art in an university to be allowed to photograh thise bikini models.
Pay for it. Go on. I dare you.
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Old 9th June 2015, 12:16 PM   #347
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
I told you before you got to spend 6 years to study art in an university to be allowed to photograh thise bikini models.
I would gladly spend 6 years learning how to photograph bikini models.

Will you clean my toilets and make meals for me while I do that?
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Old 9th June 2015, 12:35 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I would gladly spend 6 years learning how to photograph bikini models.

Will you clean my toilets and make meals for me while I do that?
Of course not. He stated upthread that someone else will do it. It's the Homer Simpson strategy.
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Old 9th June 2015, 01:06 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I would gladly spend 6 years learning how to photograph bikini models.

Will you clean my toilets and make meals for me while I do that?
Sorry but good and lazy jobs are for fellows who study a long time.
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Old 9th June 2015, 01:10 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Sorry but good and lazy jobs are for fellows who study a long time.
Where do you get this inane drivel from?
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Old 9th June 2015, 02:31 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Sorry but good and lazy jobs are for fellows who study a long time.
Okay, then I'll study photographing bikini models for 12 years. Will you clean my toilets and make my meals while I study?

That is what you are advocating right?
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Old 9th June 2015, 03:13 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Okay, then I'll study photographing bikini models for 12 years. Will you clean my toilets and make my meals while I study?

That is what you are advocating right?
Money is something invented by Kings and dictators to control their population and clean their toilets then Under no money system, you clean your own toilet.
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Old 9th June 2015, 03:20 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money is something invented by Kings and dictators to control their population and clean their toilets then Under no money system, you clean your own toilet.
Nope, you clean my toilet. It's what you like to do. I'll be busy photographing bikini models.

Get down on your hands and knees and get busy scrubbing.
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Old 9th June 2015, 03:39 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Nope, you clean my toilet. It's what you like to do. I'll be busy photographing bikini models.

Get down on your hands and knees and get busy scrubbing.
Under no money system, time of slavery, oligarchy, imperialism, dictatorship will be over, then you clean your own ****.
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Old 9th June 2015, 03:50 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under no money system, time of slavery, oligarchy, imperialism, dictatorship will be over, then you clean your own ****.
Nope. Under your no-money tribal warfare system where we all revert to hunter-gatherer nomadic tribes, you'll be cleaning the toilets. It's what you were born to do, as you've mentioned many times.

Get busy. Iwant them sparkling by the time I get back from photographing bikini models. Then you'll be busy with a lot of other bathrooms.
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Old 9th June 2015, 04:02 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money is something invented by Kings and dictators to control their population and clean their toilets then Under no money system, you clean your own toilet.
Wait, this is very confusing. You said that people will do what they like and you said that some people enjoy cleaning and doing unpleasant tasks. That allows everyone to do what they enjoy. So I said that I want to learn to be a professional golfer and a bikini model magazine editor.

So while I am golfing and looking at bikini models, shouldn't someone who enjoys cleaning be scrubbing my toilets and someone who enjoys cooking be making my meals?

In that way, everyone is doing what they enjoy. Isn't that how your no money world is supposed to work?
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Old 9th June 2015, 04:06 PM   #357
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under no money system, time of slavery, oligarchy, imperialism, dictatorship will be over, then you clean your own ****.
I think we've discovered how Gaetan earns his living.
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Old 9th June 2015, 04:11 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under no money system, time of slavery, oligarchy, imperialism, dictatorship will be over, then you clean your own ****.
But I asked if you would build me a house if I mowed your lawn and you refused. So you don't believe your own belief.
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Old 9th June 2015, 09:27 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Money is something invented by Kings and dictators to control their population and clean their toilets then Under no money system, you clean your own toilet.

And raise your own food, build your own house, etc. Money is how we get people to help us when we don't have what they need or want when we need it.
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Old 9th June 2015, 09:28 PM   #360
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
So while I am golfing and looking at bikini models, shouldn't someone who enjoys cleaning be scrubbing my toilets and someone who enjoys cooking be making my meals?
Why someone would clean your toilet Under no money system. Money can buy anything, love, power, slave to clean your toilet, but Under no money you cannot do that, you'll live in the real world, the true one, not in a world that some hypocrite kiss your ass for money.

Last edited by Gaetan; 9th June 2015 at 09:30 PM.
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