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Tags 9/11 truth movement , Alain Soral , anti-semitism , Dieudonne M'bala M'bala , Rudy Dent

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Old 6th December 2015, 05:47 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself? When I start hearing terms like "the Jews," "the Zionists," etc, I smell an antiSemitic rat.
How is "Zionists" a racist term?

Quote:
Here in Denver, I have met many people in 911 Truth who are Jewish and rabidly anti-Israeli war policies, and so far only one person in the movement I would consider possibly antiSemitic (only because he picked up on some Holocaust denial ideas and was willing to consider them seriously; he was responsive to my rebuttals however).
"Self hating Jew" is the standard response from many of those who would seek to link criticism of Israel with racism.


Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
Israel is a theocracy pretending to be a democracy and so it shares some attributes with Iran for example.
How is it a theocracy? How is it not a democracy? That sounds like a very exaggerated claim. And saying it "shares some attributes with Iran" strikes me as meaningless.


Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Of course the policies of the Israeli government are as much a legitimate target of scrutiny as any other government's.

However, the big question is: Why bring up Israel in the first place? Why are we - why are truthers! - even dropping the word "Israel" here? The terrorists were not Israelis, and any imagined "inside job" can't be Israel's job since Israel isn't inside.

So EITHER you have real, tangible, unambiguous evidence that directly links Israel to the 9/11 attacks.

OR you start from a premise that Israel is inside the US government, and/or inside world terrorism, and/or Israel is a usual suspect whenever something really bad happends.
Such a premise is anti-semitic.

Since I am not aware of any real, tangible, unambiguous evidence that directly links Israel to the 9/11 attacks, I am left with only one choice when the word "Israel" is dropped into a 9/11 debate.
If truthers knew how to tell "real, tangible, unambiguous evidence" from nonsense, then they wouldn't be truthers. And no, you wouldn't need a premise that Israel is "inside the US government" to concoct a crazy theory about Israel being involved in 9/11 somehow.

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Old 7th December 2015, 12:16 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
+1

There can be no doubt that Rudy Dent is an anti-Semite.

But in order to know if the following is true:


We would need to know that the people that it supposedly 'sits well with' are aware of Dent's anti-Semitism. Is being a friend on facebook enough to justify assuming this? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm not on facebook and don't know much about how it works. Does being a person's 'friend' on the site automatically mean that you are informed of what they post there?
I appreciate your skepticism. It was certainly somewhat rhetoric on my part to implicate all those "friends".

What you "see" of your FB friends depends on a number of things: Your FB settings, number of friends, how often they post, how often you use FB, personal habits. No doubt most postings go by unread or at least unprocessed.

Now Rudy Dent posts a LOT. I merely selected one posting for each of the last four days, but he posts several texts, images and videos every day, and pretty much all of it is ani-semitic, racist or otherwise hateful "alternative history". He explains, in the full version of the personal statement I quoted excerpts from, that the purpose of his FB page is essentially to disseminate the "truth" about the evil zionist overlords. So of a "friend" of Rudy's pays any attention at all, ever, to what he writes, they can't possibly miss the bigotry.

I suspect however that many of his truther "friends" became "friends" merely on name recognition after he was featured prominently by Gage and Rudkowski, and never checked out what he posts.
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Old 7th December 2015, 06:55 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Georgio View Post
+1

We would need to know that the people that it supposedly 'sits well with' are aware of Dent's anti-Semitism. Is being a friend on facebook enough to justify assuming this? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm not on facebook and don't know much about how it works. Does being a person's 'friend' on the site automatically mean that you are informed of what they post there?
Anyone who espouses an extreme minority viewpoint needs to check his bedfellows. Only a tiny minority of the public believes in Trutherism. Only a tiny minority of the public is vocally Anti-Semitic or Neo-Nazi or a Holocaust Denier. So when you find a substantial overlap amongst these, people will naturally draw conclusions. Rudy Dent isn't an isolated example. See also Eric Hufschmid, Ken O'Keefe, Christopher Bollyn, Rebekah Roth, Jim Fetzer, Karl Schwarz; the list is long.

Like it or not, that's the way life is...
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Old 7th December 2015, 07:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Redwood View Post
Anyone who espouses an extreme minority viewpoint needs to check his bedfellows. Only a tiny minority of the public believes in Trutherism.
I wouldn't say it's an "extreme" or "tiny" minority. Also I'm not sure why you think someone espousing a minority viewpoint "needs to check his bedfellows".
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Old 8th December 2015, 12:31 AM   #45
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Everyone should check their bedfellows, and every FB user is responsible for their "friends".

When Richard Gage gave Rudy Dent a spot on the podium and in the limelight this last 9/11 anniversary, he could have and should have known that Rudy is a Hitler-loving Jew-hater.
When he left a spoken greeting message to start every AE911Truth "Freefall Radio" recording on Kevin Barrett's "No Lies Radio" website, he must have already been aware that Barrett is a holocaust-denying anti-semite.
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Old 8th December 2015, 03:03 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
and every FB user is responsible for their "friends"
Seriously? That's completely bonkers.
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Old 8th December 2015, 03:10 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by cornsail View Post
Seriously? That's completely bonkers.
Sorry my wording was ambiguous.

I meant "Everyone is responsible for who they add and accept as their 'friends' on Facebook"
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Old 8th December 2015, 06:09 AM   #48
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Clearly the truth guys such as Gage are willfully ignorant about antisemitism etc. when it's convenient to be. Associating with antisemites and others haters would seem to be something they WOULDN'T want to be associated with when you want to be taken seriously as a rational critical thinker.

There is that old adage..... loosely: I shall know you by the company you keep.
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Old 8th December 2015, 06:25 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
There is that old adage..... loosely: I shall know you by the company you keep.
Living by an old maxim, too: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Old 13th December 2015, 11:30 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
Such a fondness for blacklisting people.
He's just trying to poison the well.

Observers in my world see that both my stepmom and half sister are Jewish, and I love them immensely.

It's unfortunate that so many of the 911 conspirators are Israeli.

Chertoff and Bazant are two names who clearly betrayed their authority to conceal the mass murder of nearly 3000 people. So did they do this because they are part of the plot, or because they don't want to implicate their brethren...

I doubt these two were part of the plot per se, so why would they want to go down in history as traitors? Just looking out for their own? Bought and paid for? Extorted?
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Old 14th December 2015, 04:15 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
He's just trying to poison the well.

Observers in my world see that both my stepmom and half sister are Jewish, and I love them immensely.

It's unfortunate that so many of the 911 conspirators are Israeli.

Chertoff and Bazant are two names who clearly betrayed their authority to conceal the mass murder of nearly 3000 people. So did they do this because they are part of the plot, or because they don't want to implicate their brethren...

I doubt these two were part of the plot per se, so why would they want to go down in history as traitors? Just looking out for their own? Bought and paid for? Extorted?
Lies, no evidence' typical 911 truth.
Lies from 911 truth's book of BS. Mocking the murder of thousands with lies. Got evidence? No.
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Old 14th December 2015, 05:02 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
Observers in my world see that both my stepmom and half sister are Jewish, and I love them immensely.
Even Adolf Eichmann, who organized the transport of hundreds of thousands of Jews to the gas chambers of Auschwitz, never grew tired of pointing out some Jews he knew personally and had great respect for.
That is a classic excuse of the anti-semite.

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
It's unfortunate that so many of the 911 conspirators are Israeli.

Chertoff and Bazant are two names ...
Israelis, huh? I am sure you have evidence that Zdenek Bazant is a citizen of Israel (he was born in Czechoslovakia in 1937, and lived there till 1966 when he moved to France, Canada and finally, in 1969, settled down at Northwestern U.)?
I am sure you have evidence that Michael Chertoff is an Israeli citizen?

Actually, I am sure you don't have any such evidence. You write "Israelis" because even you sense that saying what you mean - "Jews", betrays too overtly, obviously your anti-semitism,

Originally Posted by Notconvinced View Post
So did they do this because they are part of the plot, or because they don't want to implicate their brethren...
Look at this vile, vague innuendo! Noooo, you are not saying it, you merely hint and insinuate what you truly believe:
That Jews commit grave crimes against America and the world because they are Jews.

Well thanks for coming out here and proving in the correct thread that you, notconvinced, are an anti-semite, too.
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Old 14th December 2015, 07:00 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Look at this vile, vague innuendo! Noooo, you are not saying it, you merely hint and insinuate what you truly believe:
That Jews commit grave crimes against America and the world because they are Jews.

Well thanks for coming out here and proving in the correct thread that you, notconvinced, are an anti-semite, too.
And what a coincidence: so were the people who actually committed the murders.
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Old 14th January 2016, 12:54 PM   #54
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Great to see members of the civil society of the USA take a clear stand against anti-semitism - here in the form of Christopher Bollyn and his public hate speeches:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2863...3726318215250/
Originally Posted by an American
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: James Patrick Jordan <pweskebway@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 10:54 AM
Subject: Christopher Bollyn event
To: Dave Croteau <davidhenrycroteau@gmail.com>, Chuck Kaufmann <chuck@afgj.org>

Hi, Dave. We got your phone message yesterday. I'd be quite willing to talk to you about this when we get a chance. Unfortunately, today would be a difficult time for that, tomorrow much better. However, I do want to make clear that our decision to cancel the Christopher Bollyn event is not something we will rescind. The event simply cannot take place at the Global Justice Center.

I decided to look a little bit more at Bollyn's work and did not have to look far at all to find evidence of his anti-semitism. For instance, there was his article Chicago Thuggery: The Jewish Mafia and Obama. I could quote a couple of statements about the "Jewish mob" or "Barack Obama is serving the Jewish criminal organization that brought him to power". If people are criminal or Zionist, this is not intrinsic to a person's being religiously or ethnically Jewish. It's pretty clear that Bollyn has a problem with Jewishness itself, and we just can't provide a venue for such a speaker.

His article "Chicago's Elders of Zion and Obama's War for Profit" extends the whole pernicious fraud of the so-called Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a favorite book of Hitler's that has been thoroughly discredited, both in its authorship and its thesis that there is a Jewish conspiracy to control the world. The whole article is offensive and over the top.

So, again--I'm willing to talk to you. But you should be aware that this event will not take place at the GJC under any conditions. You should make your plans accordingly.

James...
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Old 14th January 2016, 02:41 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself? When I start hearing terms like "the Jews," "the Zionists," etc, I smell an antiSemitic rat. Here in Denver, I have met many people in 911 Truth who are Jewish and rabidly anti-Israeli war policies, and so far only one person in the movement I would consider possibly antiSemitic (only because he picked up on some Holocaust denial ideas and was willing to consider them seriously; he was responsive to my rebuttals however).
I DID get antiSemitic crap in my email box, but haven't seen any of this for about five years. It's there in 911 Truth but it's not endemic, in my experience.
And no, I won't dignify Holocaust denial theories with a debate. They make me puke.

Of course one is anti-Italian if one opposes Mafia crime ( /sarcasm )

How about opposition to Nazi crimes is not anti-German?

Criticizing a half white, half black president's policies is called racist?

Criticizing a black president's policies would be racist?

One is labeled anti semitic for criticizing Israeli policies/lobbyists why?

Need a thread about this phenomena?

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Old 14th January 2016, 03:49 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Of course one is anti-Italian if one opposes Mafia crime ( /sarcasm )

How about opposition to Nazi crimes is not anti-German?

Criticizing a half white, half black president's policies is called racist?

Criticizing a black president's policies would be racist?

One is labeled anti semitic for criticizing Israeli policies/lobbyists why?

Need a thread about this phenomena?
How is this related to this thread?
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Old 14th January 2016, 05:18 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Of course one is anti-Italian if one opposes Mafia crime ( /sarcasm )
How about opposition to Nazi crimes is not anti-German?
Criticizing a half white, half black president's policies is called racist?
Criticizing a black president's policies would be racist?
One is labeled anti semitic for criticizing Israeli policies/lobbyists why?
Need a thread about this phenomena?
This was a reply, I assume, to ChrisMohr's question, that you highlighted:
"Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself?"
You could have given it a shorter answer:

"Yes."
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Old 14th January 2016, 05:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
How is this related to this thread?
"Anti-mafia = anti-Italian" is on a par with "911 trutherism = antisemitic"

Some truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
I dont know. Why should he be?


Some anti-semitic truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
Apparently, if he's anti-semitic to begin with. Thats different.


Its like someone gets called racist only because they are critical of Obama's job performance. Ridiculous.
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Old 14th January 2016, 05:28 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
This was a reply, I assume, to ChrisMohr's question, that you highlighted:

For some reason I thought no one noticed.
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Old 14th January 2016, 05:33 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
This was a reply, I assume, to ChrisMohr's question, that you highlighted:
"Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself?"
You could have given it a shorter answer:

"Yes.
"
Someone already did that.

Besides, experience with the anti-semitism issue tells me the type of examples I offered are sorely needed, sometimes. Why just , the other day I encountered that need.....
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Old 14th January 2016, 06:02 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
"Anti-mafia = anti-Italian" is on a par with "911 trutherism = antisemitic"
That's a strawman. No one equates truthers with antisemites.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Some truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
I dont know. Why should he be?
Careful with the wording:
"Blaming jews" is anti-semitic.
"Blaming some (specific) jews" may very well be not anti-semitic.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Some anti-semitic truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
Apparently, if he's anti-semitic to begin with. Thats different.
Some anti-semitic truther blaming certain jews is much more likely to be anti-semitic than some non-anti-semitic person blaming certain jews.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Its like someone gets called racist only because they are critical of Obama's job performance. Ridiculous.
What if you knew that someone is a racist to begin with, and you heard him being critical of Obama's job performance - would you consider it more likely that he is critical because of his racism? I would! More likely - not certain.


To give you my perspective:
It appears to me (= this is my perception, but I don't have robust data to prove it) that a much higher proportion of Truthers is anti-semitic than of the general population.
How do I spot them as anti-semites?
  • Pointing out that that people they blame are Jews - good indication. They rarely point out that GW Bush has English ancestry or is a Christian, or that Shyam Sunder is of Indian descent. It seems that being Jewish is relevant in a way that being a Indian or a Christian is not.
  • Hypothesizing that 9/11 is part of some history spanning generations and starting out with Jewish bankers - yes, these old anti-semitic conspiracy theories are well alive
  • Blaming Israel without specificity and evidence - I have very often seen people blame Mossad, I am totally unaware of any evidence actually implicating Mossad, other than the anti-semitic conviction that Israel and Mossad are prime evil and behind everything bad in the world
  • It's strange that none of these Israel-blamers ever blame Germany - Germany has started enough world wars to be on everybody's list of usual suspects, AND Atta and several of his buddies planned the attacks from Hamburg, Germany! (Or perhaps Truthers could fantasize that they were framed by the Germans).
None of these indications is sufficient to prove anti-semitism by its lonesome self, but once you spot someone communicating along those lines, if you look more into how they talk and think, you will usually find clear anti-semitic patterns.


So what is it with truthers and anti-semitism? I logically see the following possibilities
  1. My perception is wrong - there really isn't a statistical correlation between the two
  2. Anti-semites are more likely to believe in 9/11 CTs
  3. 9/11 Truthers are more likely to become anti-semites
  4. The same traits that make someone more likely to become an anti-semite also make them prone to believing in 9/11 CTs

My money would be split between 4. and 2.
After all, anti-semitism really is the mother of all CTs.
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Old 14th January 2016, 07:10 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
"Anti-mafia = anti-Italian" is on a par with "911 trutherism = antisemitic"

Some truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
I dont know. Why should he be?


Some anti-semitic truther blaming jews is anti-semitic?
Apparently, if he's anti-semitic to begin with. Thats different.


Its like someone gets called racist only because they are critical of Obama's job performance. Ridiculous.
I am not surprised stormfront dolts may be 911 truth believers, or 911 truth believers my be antisemitic - the intelligence level to be a bigot is conducive for falling for the idiotic lies 911 truth pushes.

Blaming Jews for 19 idiots attacking the USA may not be antisemitic, but it is dumber than dirt. It is possible the dolt is antisemitic.

LOL, the Obama analogy is funny, because many are racists when they make up BS, which may be mistaken for being critical about Obama - if we have missed the lies and BS about Obama, then we may be mistaking lies and bigotry for criticism. Poor analogy; blaming Jews for 911 usually is an idiot who has no clue they are antisemitic. (I guess the people pushing lies about Obama may not be racist, but then they are dumber than dirt)

Guess the dolts in 911 truth could be delusional, thinking 19 terrorists were Jews, which is par for 911 truth nuts and dolts.
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Old 14th January 2016, 08:15 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
I am not surprised stormfront dolts may be 911 truth believers, or 911 truth believers my be antisemitic - the intelligence level to be a bigot is conducive for falling for the idiotic lies 911 truth pushes.
Many Stormfront supporters on one site I frequent are truthers. The 'dancing Israelis' canard comes up with alarming regularity, and 'da Jooz' are behind 9/11, and just about every other event that happens in the world today.

Personally, in my experience 9/11 truth and anti-Semitism are concomitant. I am labelled a 'Zioshill'; a 'Sayanim'; a 'Jewbot' and every other anti-Semitic term you can think of just because I understand the irrational nature of truther claims.

They are the vilest individuals one could interact with online.
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Old 15th January 2016, 04:51 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by JSanderO View Post
This may be off topic...but I came across this quote from The Atlantic:

"Yet the new anti-Semitism flourishing in corners of the European Muslim community would be impoverished without the incorporation of European fascist tropes. Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, a comedian of French Cameroonian descent who specializes in Holocaust revisionism and gas-chamber humor, is the inventor of the quenelle, widely understood as an inverted Nazi salute. His followers have taken to photographing themselves making the quenelle in front of synagogues, Holocaust memorials, and sites of past anti-Jewish terrorist attacks. Dieudonné has built an ideological partnership with Alain Soral, the anti-Jewish conspiracy theorist and 9/11 “truther” who was for several years a member of the National Front’s central committee. Soral was photographed not long ago making the quenelle in front of Berlin’s Holocaust memorial."
Is certainly real among some people and groups, however, the usage of labeling someone or a group anti-Semitic has become an umbrella term to include criticism or dissent and is not strictly limited to prejudice against Jews because they're Jewish. The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt is an example of criticism being called anti-Semitism.
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Old 15th January 2016, 05:04 AM   #65
Jango
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Originally Posted by HotRodDeluxe View Post
Many Stormfront supporters on one site I frequent are truthers. The 'dancing Israelis' canard comes up with alarming regularity, and 'da Jooz' are behind 9/11, and just about every other event that happens in the world today.

Personally, in my experience 9/11 truth and anti-Semitism are concomitant. I am labelled a 'Zioshill'; a 'Sayanim'; a 'Jewbot' and every other anti-Semitic term you can think of just because I understand the irrational nature of truther claims.

They are the vilest individuals one could interact with online.
1. Mossad is one of the world's smallest intelligence services. But it has a back-up system no other outfit can match. The system is known as sayanim, a derivative of the Hebrew word lesayeah, meaning to help.

There are tens of thousands of these "helpers". Each has been carefully recruited, sometimes by katsas, Mossad's field agents. Others have been asked to become helpers by other members of the secret group.

Created by Meir Amit, the role of the sayanim is a striking example of the cohesiveness of the world Jewish community. In practical terms, a sayan who runs a car rental agency will provide a kidon with a vehicle on a no-questions basis. An estate agent sayan will provide a building for surveillance. A bank manager sayan will provide funds at any time of day or night, and a sayan doctor provides medical assistance.


In other words, the term itself is not anti-Semitic, but a Hebrew way of saying a network of loyal Jews willing to help other Jews at a moment's notice.

2. You may really believe that, but I don't classify anti-Semitism as being worse than rape, murder, human trafficking or many other dark, sinister and evil groups of people on the Internet, be it above on the open net or (especially) below on the dark net.
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Old 15th January 2016, 06:43 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
1. ... the term ['Sayanim'] itself is not anti-Semitic, but a Hebrew way of saying a network of loyal Jews willing to help other Jews at a moment's notice.
No, the term is not. But its use in the context that HotRodDeluxe described is. The speaker clearly implied that
- Mossad is behind 9/11
- HotRodDeluxe is a Mossad supporter
Both implied claims have no evidence for them whatsoever and reflect on the prejudices of the speaker alone, not reality as determined by rational skepticism. These prejudices are anti-semitic.


Originally Posted by Jango View Post
2. You may really believe that, but I don't classify anti-Semitism as being worse than rape, murder, human trafficking or many other dark, sinister and evil groups of people on the Internet, be it above on the open net or (especially) below on the dark net.
If it turned out that a highly vocal and visible proportion of Truthers were part of groups of rapists, murderers[*] or human traffickers, we'd point that out, too as potentially significant. This is not a contest of what is the most vile sin, this is a matter of observing reality






[*] Of course it has been pointed out that several murders and murder-suicides have been committed by well-known truthers over the years. I do not believe this is significant. I once researched relevant statistics and found no robust evidence that incidence of murder is higher among the TM than among the general US population.
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Old 15th January 2016, 09:04 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post

.....[*]Blaming Israel without specificity and evidence - I have very often seen people blame Mossad, I am totally unaware of any evidence actually implicating Mossad, other than the anti-semitic conviction that Israel and Mossad are prime evil and behind everything bad in the world

Also, IIRC some were blaming Mossad as follows.

Mars and Venus are in conflict.

So Martians cause Earthlings to believe that they have been attacked by Venutians because Mars wants Earth to attack Venus.




Quote:
So what is it with truthers and anti-semitism? I logically see the following possibilities
  1. My perception is wrong - there really isn't a statistical correlation between the two
  2. Anti-semites are more likely to believe in 9/11 CTs
  3. 9/11 Truthers are more likely to become anti-semites
  4. The same traits that make someone more likely to become an anti-semite also make them prone to believing in 9/11 CTs

My money would be split between 4. and 2.
After all, anti-semitism really is the mother of all CTs.
Seriously?
How so?
.
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Old 15th January 2016, 09:16 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Also, IIRC some were blaming Mossad as follows.
Mars and Venus are in conflict.
So Martians cause Earthlings to believe that they have been attacked by Venutians because Mars wants Earth to attack Venus.
Seriously?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Seriously?
How so?
.
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Old 15th January 2016, 09:55 AM   #69
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Quote:
Quote:
Posted by Bubba View Post
Also, IIRC some were blaming Mossad as follows.

Mars and Venus are in conflict.
So Martians cause Earthlings to believe that they have been attacked by Venutians because Mars wants Earth to attack Venus.

Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Seriously?
If it helps:

Mars = Mossad.
Venus = Arabs
Earth = USA

Yes seriously.
They claimed Mossad orchestrated 911 so that USA would attack Mossad's enemies.
I'm not saying it made sense.

According to its proponents in 911 truther world, it was a garden variety false flag attack scenario.
Lack of evidence didnt matter to them.

BTW I was inspired by this in your post 61

Quote:
"Blaming Israel without specificity and evidence - I have very often seen people blame Mossad, I am totally unaware of any evidence actually implicating Mossad, other than the anti-semitic conviction that Israel and Mossad are prime evil and behind everything bad in the world "

Last edited by Bubba; 15th January 2016 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 15th January 2016, 02:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
If it helps:

Mars = Mossad.
Venus = Arabs
Earth = USA

Yes seriously.
They claimed Mossad orchestrated 911 so that USA would attack Mossad's enemies.
I'm not saying it made sense.

According to its proponents in 911 truther world, it was a garden variety false flag attack scenario.
Lack of evidence didnt matter to them.

BTW I was inspired by this in your post 61
Thanks for explaining.
So why would they say such things? -> Anti-semitism.
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Old 16th January 2016, 09:15 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
If it turned out that a highly vocal and visible proportion of Truthers were part of groups of rapists, murderers[*] or human traffickers, we'd point that out, too as potentially significant. This is not a contest of what is the most vile sin, this is a matter of observing reality


[*] Of course it has been pointed out that several murders and murder-suicides have been committed by well-known truthers over the years. I do not believe this is significant. I once researched relevant statistics and found no robust evidence that incidence of murder is higher among the TM than among the general US population.
I'd love to see this data. Please share and prepare for an extensive review and critique of your methodology.
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Old 16th January 2016, 09:40 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I'd love to see this data. Please share and prepare for an extensive review and critique of your methodology.
On this forum, perhaps 3 years ago. The search function may help, if you are interested. I am not at this time.
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Old 16th January 2016, 09:42 AM   #73
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Knowing what we know about human memory (both yours and mine), I'm forced to conclude that you have no evidence to make your claim above.

If you have any keywords or further hints for me to try, I'll do my best to search for your stuff.
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Old 16th January 2016, 11:04 AM   #74
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Many of the Paleo-truthers (talking 2001-2002) like Eric Hufschmidt,
Chris Bollyn (of AMERICAN FREE PRES, successor to notorious rag SPOTLIGHT)
et al came out of the Anti Semitic conspiracy movement . They blamed the JOOS for anything and everything claimed was wrong with the country

It was these clowns who "advised" Dillion Avery and his gang of stoners - providing many of the tropes that truthers repeat endlessly

Later on Avery and most of the 911 truthers switched from blatant Antisemitism to "ANTI ZIONISM" as their theme

Anti Zionist allowed to blame the Jews, Israel and Mossad without the taint
of Antisemitism
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Old 16th January 2016, 11:24 AM   #75
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That would be Dylan AveryWP:

https://youtu.be/c5-Ph0Mv-2I?t=42s
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Old 16th January 2016, 04:56 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Knowing what we know about human memory (both yours and mine), I'm forced to conclude that you have no evidence to make your claim above.

If you have any keywords or further hints for me to try, I'll do my best to search for your stuff.
Do I seriously have to present evidence to support the claim "I once researched relevant statistics and found no robust evidence..."??

But if you must: Here is what I was refering to:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...72#post8972772
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Old 17th January 2016, 03:06 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
I know all this, and the individuals in question use it as an ad hom. You see, if you think for just a moment, a Jew-helper is just as bad as a Jew to these anti-Semites. It's not too difficult to understand if you bother to note the context.

Quote:
2. You may really believe that, but I don't classify anti-Semitism as being worse than rape, murder, human trafficking or many other dark, sinister and evil groups of people on the Internet, be it above on the open net or (especially) below on the dark net.
What an inane response. You don't even know the individuals I'm talking about so please refrain from projection and facile assumption. Furthermore, your beliefs are of no interest to me.

Last edited by HotRodDeluxe; 17th January 2016 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 17th January 2016, 09:52 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by HotRodDeluxe View Post
I know all this, and the individuals in question use it as an ad hom. You see, if you think for just a moment, a Jew-helper is just as bad as a Jew to these anti-Semites. It's not too difficult to understand if you bother to note the context.

What an inane response. You don't even know the individuals I'm talking about so please refrain from projection and facile assumption. Furthermore, your beliefs are of no interest to me.
Your post I responded to initially:

Quote:
Many Stormfront supporters on one site I frequent are truthers. The 'dancing Israelis' canard comes up with alarming regularity, and 'da Jooz' are behind 9/11, and just about every other event that happens in the world today.

Personally, in my experience 9/11 truth and anti-Semitism are concomitant. I am labelled a 'Zioshill'; a 'Sayanim'; a 'Jewbot' and every other anti-Semitic term you can think of just because I understand the irrational nature of truther claims.

They are the vilest individuals one could interact with online.
You're talking about supporters of Stormfront being "the vilest individuals one could interact with online." In other words, the most unpleasant. Do you stand by that, that Stormfront supporters are the most unpleasant "individuals one could interact with online"?

Secondly, you in fact did call "'Sayanim'" an "anti-Semitic term".
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Old 17th January 2016, 10:07 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Jango View Post
You're talking about supporters of Stormfront being "the vilest individuals one could interact with online." In other words, the most unpleasant. Do you stand by that, that Stormfront supporters are the most unpleasant "individuals one could interact with online"?
Note the following:

"Many Stormfront supporters on one site I frequent are truthers. "

Now, the key words you seemed to have completely ignored are "Many"...and "on a site I frequent". These are the individuals in question, not Stormfront overall, as you seem to imagine (I don't know where you pulled that from).

Quote:
Secondly, you in fact did call "'Sayanim'" an "anti-Semitic term".
And the individuals in question use it as an anti-Semitic term (note context, yet again). I apologise if my post didn't outline every single nuance perfectly. I'll try to be more pedantic in future for your benefit.

Last edited by HotRodDeluxe; 17th January 2016 at 10:25 PM.
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Old 17th January 2016, 10:23 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by HotRodDeluxe View Post
Note the following:

"Many Stormfront supporters on one site I frequent are truthers. "

Now, the key words you seemed to have completely ignored are "Many"...and "on a site I frequent".

I hope that helps with your poor comprehension.
Do you or do you not consider whomever you're talking about to be "the vilest individuals one could interact with online"?



Originally Posted by HotRodDeluxe View Post
And the individuals in question use it as an anti-Semitic term (note context, yet again). I apologise if my post didn't outline every single nuance perfectly. I'll try to be more pedantic in future for your benefit.
Precision of language would be helpful, thanks.
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