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Old 11th May 2015, 08:46 AM   #121
mstricky
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Its the soul that leaves the body and will exist forevermore, absorbed in it, all life's memories/experiences
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Old 11th May 2015, 11:31 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Its the soul that leaves the body and will exist forevermore, absorbed in it, all life's memories/experiences
Not really.
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Old 11th May 2015, 03:52 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
An out of body experience (seeing from above) is 'existing in a parallel universe' f.e. Physicists who talk about parallel universes suddenly don't except the existence of it when people are talking about being in such a universe. That's not very consistent.
Jut three small hints for you:
1. The use of the term "quantum" does not explain any paranormal event and does not mean what paranormal believers appear to think it means.
2, Neither does "uncertainty principle."
3. Neither does "multiverse." This term, in particular, does not mean define a special dimensional location that allows our "souls" to live after death.

There are more, but I don't have the time right now.

More generally, you are grossly misusing words that mean very specific things, to explain or justify other things to which they do not apply. Almost all of your arguments here are based on your apparent unwillingness to accept a concept based on your lack of knowledge of the relevant and well-established facts that support this concept. People here have been very happy to help, and to direct you toward the established facts. These facts would explain the many things that you have posted as mysterious and unexplained, but I don't see any signs from your posts that you have made use of these opportunities to discover the actual answers to your questions. Instead, your posts appear to follow the reverse process: an advocacy of a misbegotten theory that can only be justified through ignorance of the facts, and a refusal to accept the reality/facts least they disprove the theory.
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Old 11th May 2015, 03:58 PM   #124
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Maybe there are invisible dragons in my garage. You just never know.
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Old 11th May 2015, 04:15 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Maybe there are invisible dragons in my garage. You just never know.
Just don't go and investigate, then you can keep believing that
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Old 11th May 2015, 04:18 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
Not really.
Yes really, you'll all know some day
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Old 11th May 2015, 06:49 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Yes really, you'll all know some day
Please provide proof that a soul exists. Can I see a soul, weigh it, have gravity affect it, or some other sort of scientific test to show it exists?
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Old 12th May 2015, 02:56 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Yes really, you'll all know some day
And what if you don't? You just die and that's the end of anything to do with you?

Hmm?
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Old 12th May 2015, 08:55 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Maybe there is a bigger picture then our lives here on Earth. And this possibility (of a bigger picture) must be considered too. Science is a human invention. Science is not reality. Science cannot explain consciousness (very well). In my op!nion: there is a much bigger picture of things, and we have only a little scoop.
Looks like you're gonna need a bigger scoop.
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Old 12th May 2015, 08:56 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Its the soul that leaves the body and will exist forevermore, absorbed in it, all life's memories/experiences
Where did this soul come from?
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Old 12th May 2015, 08:57 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I don't know.
The beginning of knowledge is to admit you don't know.
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Old 12th May 2015, 09:00 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Yes really, you'll all know some day
I thought dead men tell no tales.
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Old 12th May 2015, 09:03 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Yes really, you'll all know some day
When your body and brain start to shut down slowly when you pass away, your belief will loose all personal significance.
And the funny thing is, at such time it doesn't matter to you anymore.

If it happens fast, none of that is applicable, you're just done.
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Old 12th May 2015, 09:05 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
The beginning of knowledge is to admit you don't know.
Or therefore all irrational belief is reasonable and has validity ....
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Old 13th May 2015, 09:38 AM   #135
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I shock I have not seen people point out Alzheimer's or other Brain illness. Parts of their brains are dying or damage and remembering parts of the past. So your mind working on parts that are still working in this case the past. Then things like Epilepsy.
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Old 13th May 2015, 09:57 AM   #136
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Of course it doesn't have quite the appeal to the religious, but in truth, all of these accounts of "Near-Death Experiences" are really "Unconscious or Nearly So Experiences." So they are really accounts of what people interpret as thoughts while passing out. No one really dies and comes back, so I don't understand why these passing-out experiences are thought in any way to be accounts of an afterlife: if you are driving but the car breaks down before got to downtown Cleveland, then you account of your experiences are not, in any way, a first-person account of downtown Cleveland.

No unsurprisingly, many of the "Near Death Experiences" match the experiences of people passing out for more mundane reasons, such as lack of oxygen. And not surprisingly, many of the details are exactly what a person's culture tells them that they should experience. Not to mention the outright lies and elaborations that embellish many of these stories.
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Old 14th May 2015, 02:09 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Scientists are willing to believe in multiversa, but when someone is talking about 'being an another dimension' (a near death experience), suddenly they don't believe in portals to other dimensions anymore. Because the people who were in other dimensions are no scientists. And because nature forbids scientists to go their with their intstruments.
Just believe in multiversa, and you understand this portal to another realm...
The multiverse is unproven speculation and you can't traverse them so you point is pointless
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Old 14th May 2015, 02:14 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Yes really, you'll all know some day
My brother is a Christian, I an atheist. He told me this same thing, that we'll know after we die. That's fine and good, but no matter who is right, neither of us will be able to tell the other "I told you so."
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Old 14th May 2015, 02:17 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by mstricky View Post
Yes really, you'll all know some day
Or not, if the soul existed which I doubt, it is so unlike anything like life that it may be like saying the object next to the pool will remember the shadow it cast on the bottom of the pool.

Why should something that is not of this world and unlike it in any way 'remember' life.
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Old 14th May 2015, 02:22 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Scientists are willing to believe in multiversa, but when someone is talking about 'being an another dimension' (a near death experience), suddenly they don't believe in portals to other dimensions anymore.
See how you went from "existence of other universes" to "portals" ? That's the difference.
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Old 14th May 2015, 02:23 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
An out of body experience (seeing from above) is 'existing in a parallel universe'.
Objection: speculation.
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Old 15th May 2015, 03:02 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
My brother is a Christian, I an atheist. He told me this same thing, that we'll know after we die. That's fine and good, but no matter who is right, neither of us will be able to tell the other "I told you so."
Well, if he is right (and a bad, bad boy) I think he might be close enough to tell you "I told you so."
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Old 15th May 2015, 03:38 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by MostlyHarmless View Post
Well, if he is right (and a bad, bad boy) I think he might be close enough to tell you "I told you so."
In striving for the middle ground, I would take that
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Old 15th May 2015, 06:57 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I don't think you have a good understanding of the neurobiology of the brain. The tunnel and light are physiological processes. The people one sees and things one hears are from one's memory, like dreaming, but with similar patterns of people's memories.
How do you know that to be fact? Could you provide some links, or whatever?


Quote:
If you fall asleep with the TV on, you sometimes fit the audio into what you are dreaming. I've found that many times. One strong memory I have from childhood was dreaming I was approaching a barn door with something scratching on the other side of the door. I woke up and my dog was scratching on my bedroom door to come in and sleep on my bed until I got up.
I agree that, but not a hundred percent of the time.


Quote:
People's dreams sometimes work to make sense of stimuli it continues to receive. If you see a tunnel of light, given circumstances that likely caused the event, it makes logical sense people would interpret the light as heaven and dream about things and people they expect to be there.
Could you elaborate on the hightlighted sentence some more? I'm not quite following you on that.
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Old 19th June 2015, 05:33 AM   #145
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When you think that the conclusions of the aware study are convincing (about the images on the seiling), you must read about "the invisible Gorilla-experiment":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qgoM89ekM

People don't even see a gorilla in a room. So, don't think that because Out of Body-experiencers don't see the images on the seiling, "it must be a hallucination". The invisible Gorilla-experiment shows us the failure of human perception.

See also:http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/g...xperiment.html
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

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Old 19th June 2015, 06:17 AM   #146
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The point of the 'image on the ceiling' experiment was to provide the first ever opportunity to obtain objective evidence that apparent OBEs were really OBEs. The experiment could not prove OBEs were not genuine, it could only prove they were. No such objective evidence was obtained.
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:20 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
When you think that the conclusions of the aware study are convincing (about the images on the seiling), you must read about "the invisible Gorilla-experiment":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qgoM89ekM

People don't even see a gorilla in a room. So, don't think that because Out of Body-experiencers don't see the images on the seiling, "it must be a hallucination". The invisible Gorilla-experiment shows us the failure of human perception.

See also:http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/g...xperiment.html
Wow. It takes real talent to lift a sceptical lesson like the gorilla and twist it into evidence for your oob woo. My hat is off, in all the most unflattering ways. You should be a politician.
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:30 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
When you think that the conclusions of the aware study are convincing (about the images on the seiling), you must read about "the invisible Gorilla-experiment":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qgoM89ekM

People don't even see a gorilla in a room. So, don't think that because Out of Body-experiencers don't see the images on the seiling, "it must be a hallucination". The invisible Gorilla-experiment shows us the failure of human perception.

See also:http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/g...xperiment.html
There are MANY topics in human biology and psychology that you need to understand yet my friend...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivated_reasoning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_brain_interpreter
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:49 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
When you think that the conclusions of the aware study are convincing (about the images on the seiling), you must read about "the invisible Gorilla-experiment":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qgoM89ekM

People don't even see a gorilla in a room. So, don't think that because Out of Body-experiencers don't see the images on the seiling, "it must be a hallucination". The invisible Gorilla-experiment shows us the failure of human perception.

See also:http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/g...xperiment.html
Nice. If the "Out of Body-experiencers" had seen the images, it would have proved the afterlife; they didn't, but that's explained by a gorilla-experiment-like "failure of human perception." Either way, the outcome supports your conclusion (reminiscent of the dedicated Christian's "god answers all prayers, sometimes he just says no"), and the test is useless. Please tell me you're not still pretending this is science, Maartenn.
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Old 19th June 2015, 07:51 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Either way, the outcome supports your conclusion...
It sure puts the "Awe" in audacity.
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Old 19th June 2015, 09:22 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
When you think that the conclusions of the aware study are convincing (about the images on the seiling), you must read about "the invisible Gorilla-experiment":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6qgoM89ekM

People don't even see a gorilla in a room. So, don't think that because Out of Body-experiencers don't see the images on the seiling, "it must be a hallucination". The invisible Gorilla-experiment shows us the failure of human perception.

See also:http://www.theinvisiblegorilla.com/g...xperiment.html
Your conclusion requires non corporeal perception to exist for it to be able to not focus 'it's' attention on images placed high up.
This is a very basic mistake.

Your presentation of the "invisible Gorilla-experiment" shows us the irrationality laden failure of your thinking.
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Old 19th June 2015, 09:37 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Wow. It takes real talent to lift a sceptical lesson like the gorilla and twist it into evidence for your oob woo. My hat is off, in all the most unflattering ways. You should be a politician.
It's the assumption that a forum full of sceptics need to be told about the famous "Did you see the gorilla?" experiment that amazes me. ISTR Robin1 (she of the unwavering belief in the authenticity of John Edward) also being under the impression that we weren't already very familiar with it, and similarly twisting (or more likely simply not understanding) its significance.
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Old 19th June 2015, 11:25 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
It's the assumption that a forum full of sceptics need to be told about the famous "Did you see the gorilla?" experiment that amazes me.
Yes, the glibness. I despair, quite often. It's level-heads like your good self that keep me around; but I feel myself becoming far more snippy these days. Perhaps I need a break.
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Old 20th June 2015, 03:00 AM   #154
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Selective bias. The Gorilla experiment = science. When you don't accept science when you don't like it = not really good critical thinking.
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Old 20th June 2015, 03:11 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Selective bias. The Gorilla experiment = science. When you don't accept science when you don't like it = not really good critical thinking.
In the spirit of science, I'm sure you're about to cite evidence of your claim above?

BTW, your preconceptions are not science...
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Old 20th June 2015, 04:18 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Selective bias. The Gorilla experiment = science. When you don't accept science when you don't like it = not really good critical thinking.
The Gorilla example shows us that our visual system is imperfect. Focus on some areas can leave blind spots.

Your focus on out of body/near-death experiences is causing you to miss a blind spot too: the many facts surrounding the subject that weigh against it.

You now accuse skeptics of not seeing the evidence for it, because we are looking so hard at the opposite. This sounds reasonable, but all the discussions in this thread show that skeptics do not behave this way.

So, you should bring evidence that skeptics are missing the gorilla on the ceiling.
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Old 20th June 2015, 04:42 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Selective bias. The Gorilla experiment = science. When you don't accept science when you don't like it = not really good critical thinking.
Let's break this down, Maartenn. The OOB experiment was set up to test whether those experiencing it were experiencing something real, by putting images where they could only be seen out-of-body. What you're doing here, with the Gorilla Experiment, is begging the question the OOB experiment was designed to test- you're just giving the putative OOBers an excuse for why they failed the test. When you do this, you've simply assumed the OOB and made the experiment for it pointless. As I said, it's like Christians with their "god answers all prayers, sometimes he says no" rationale- a prayer is a test for god made useless by faith; any outcome "passes" the test because it satisfies the faith.

You're not doing science here, Maartenn, you're making a travesty of it, mouthing the words and distorting the form.
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Old 20th June 2015, 05:13 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Selective bias. The Gorilla experiment = science. When you don't accept science when you don't like it = not really good critical thinking.
I see you learned some words from rationalwiki or similiar place and throw them randomly now. It won't work.

More seriously, Gorilla experiment as explanation why OOBEs didn't seen images is just very pathetic excuse. Why?

People overlooked gorilla, because they were focused on something else. Circumstances of image on ceiling was very different, so these two situations are not comparable. You just searched for excuse for something that would at least superficially explain away failure of OOBE. It won't work.
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Old 20th June 2015, 05:33 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Mader Levap View Post
I see you learned some words from rationalwiki or similiar place and throw them randomly now. It won't work.

More seriously, Gorilla experiment as explanation why OOBEs didn't seen images is just very pathetic excuse. Why?

People overlooked gorilla, because they were focused on something else. Circumstances of image on ceiling was very different, so these two situations are not comparable. You just searched for excuse for something that would at least superficially explain away failure of OOBE. It won't work.
Another way they're not comparable is that, in the original "invisible gorilla" experiment:

Quote:
But when we did this experiment at Harvard University several years ago, we found that half of the people who watched the video and counted the passes missed the gorilla.
So half of the people who watched the video saw the gorilla, making it especially specious for Maartenn to use this excuse for an OBE experiment in which nobody saw the images. He's using an experiment that demonstrated an only partial failure to beg the question of a total one.
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Old 20th June 2015, 07:37 AM   #160
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First time I watched the Gorilla vid, I saw it. I must say that I was warned by the surrounding tone of the article that linked to it, so I may have peeled an extra eye.
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