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Old 5th July 2015, 07:51 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Mighty lively corpse, ...
Yep, but the brain seems to be broken.
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Old 5th July 2015, 07:53 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Do you really think that NDE's or OBE's can be a subject for experiments? No, that's impossible. Science is limited. It cannot investigate everything. Consciousness and what people experience is a 'forbidden territory' for science.

People say that 'The NDE is more real then what we experience here in our daily lives'.

We are talking here about a parallel reality. A tptally different dimension. A reality wich cannot be discovered by science, because the scientific method is limited.
The neuroscientist can't go there with his instruments.
Enter the irrational belief based 'problem solvers'
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Old 5th July 2015, 09:56 AM   #203
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IBS. Irrational Belief Solvers. Can ... doo.
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Old 5th July 2015, 11:19 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
The data dripped down the fluorescent painted walls to the mystic minor scales of Pink Floyd. It flowed through my hands, heedless of cells or laws.

My best advice for you is to expect the veil to remain even as you are soaked with clarity and grasp the core of mystery now laid bare and coherent. Tomorrow you will be a stranger.
d00d.

I mean, d00000000000d.
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Old 5th July 2015, 11:21 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Do you really think that NDE's or OBE's can be a subject for experiments? No, that's impossible. Science is limited. It cannot investigate everything. Consciousness and what people experience is a 'forbidden territory' for science.

People say that 'The NDE is more real then what we experience here in our daily lives'.

We are talking here about a parallel reality. A tptally different dimension. A reality wich cannot be discovered by science, because the scientific method is limited.
The neuroscientist can't go there with his instruments.
Interesting set of assertions. I wonder: if it "cannot be discovered", why bother making claims about it?
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Old 5th July 2015, 11:39 AM   #206
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My proof is that it cannot be proved! And that the failure of science to prove it is not evidence against it, but evidence against science!

Just a reminder: science is really just testing if a claimed result is fully reproducible and observable by any individual when the correct conditions are employed. This is clearly not true of "NDEs'".

"Science is magic that works." Maarteen is claiming that NDEs are magic that doesn't work (when tested appropriately) so it isn't science. Fair enough, although that also means it isn't real or useful. There are lots of things one can imagine but which do not work or exist when tested scientifically. Maarteen appears to want to believe in these imaginary things as some new dimension. Although the result is a limitless list of imaginary events and objects, many of which I emotionally treasure and gain insight from, it is very important to remember that these things, "being beyond the reach of science," are also beyond the reach of being particularly useful in this physical reality.

I continue to enjoy Sherlock Holmes stories and I have gained some insights from reading them. But trying to call on Sherlock at 221B Baker street for advice in my real life would not be particularly useful.

Last edited by Giordano; 5th July 2015 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 5th July 2015, 12:49 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
... a parallel reality. A tptally different dimension. A reality wich cannot be discovered by science, ...
The neuroscientist can't go there with his instruments.
Nor is there any evidence that anyone else can
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Old 5th July 2015, 01:28 PM   #208
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I may be totally off track here, but haven't brain scans shown that the same areas of the brain are active in different individuals undergoing similar experiences - "falling in love," for instance?

If that is the case, would it be so far-fetched to think that similar areas of the brain would react similarly and create similar sensations when the brain is experiencing death or near-death?
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Old 5th July 2015, 05:32 PM   #209
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You guys stop picking on Maartenn100!

All ideas are equally valid, or something.
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Old 6th July 2015, 09:04 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
You guys stop picking on Maartenn100!

All ideas are equally valid, or something.
I can't be bothered to go back and check, but I believe Maartenn has said something very much like that. Or it could have been someone lampooning him. The problem with ideas like his is that it's really, really hard sometimes to tell the difference.
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Old 7th July 2015, 03:07 AM   #211
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I have a new theory about this. Because science can't provide a good theory to explain NDE's.
It's 'the other dimension-theory'. It states that there is at least one other dimenstion (not a multiverse, but a multidimensional existence) and consciousness is the portal to other dimensions. We must, however, leave this dimension in order to experience another dimension. The experiences of the dimensions are mutually exclusive.
There is no physical gate as we know it. The gate is our own mind. Consciousness.

The supernatural can exist: there is no law wich forbids dimensions with laws wich are not our laws of nature. These dimensions can be called supernatural. There is no law in the universe wich forbids nature to be supernatural in other dimensions then our own.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 7th July 2015 at 03:10 AM.
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Old 7th July 2015, 03:23 AM   #212
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NDEs are fully explained by our current scientific understanding of the brain, as has been pointed out multiple times. No fanciful explanation involving other dimensions is necessary or justifiable.
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Old 7th July 2015, 03:36 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I have a new theory about this. Because science can't provide a good theory to explain NDE's.
It's 'the other dimension-theory'. It states that there is at least one other dimenstion (not a multiverse, but a multidimensional existence) and consciousness is the portal to other dimensions. We must, however, leave this dimension in order to experience another dimension. The experiences of the dimensions are mutually exclusive.
Mutually exclusive. So the folks who look down and see their body on the operating table are lying, mistaken, or hallucinating. If one is using the other dimensions, then one cannot be using these dimensions: they are mutually exclusive.
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Old 7th July 2015, 03:39 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I have a new theory about this. Because science can't provide a good theory to explain NDE's.
It's 'the other dimension-theory'. It states that there is at least one other dimenstion (not a multiverse, but a multidimensional existence) and consciousness is the portal to other dimensions. We must, however, leave this dimension in order to experience another dimension. The experiences of the dimensions are mutually exclusive.
There is no physical gate as we know it. The gate is our own mind. Consciousness.

The supernatural can exist: there is no law wich forbids dimensions with laws wich are not our laws of nature. These dimensions can be called supernatural. There is no law in the universe wich forbids nature to be supernatural in other dimensions then our own.
Are you interested in testing and debugging your new theory, or are you simply eructating from the throne?
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Old 7th July 2015, 03:55 AM   #215
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The evidence = the numerous undeniable independent testimonies of their experiences (=experimental observations during an NDE) from people from all over the world.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 7th July 2015, 04:01 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
The evidence = the numerous undeniable independent testimonies of their experiences (=experimental observations during an NDE) from people from all over the world.
Complete fringe reset.
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Old 7th July 2015, 04:21 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
The evidence = the numerous undeniable independent testimonies of their experiences (=experimental observations during an NDE) from people from all over the world.
All of which are fully explainable by our current scientific understanding of the brain, as has been pointed out multiple times. No fanciful explanation involving other dimensions is necessary or justifiable.
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Old 7th July 2015, 04:22 AM   #218
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Some people here make the following fallacy:
"because I posted an answer, you must change your mind".

Nope: it's not because you post some arguments, that these arguments are convincing.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 7th July 2015, 04:37 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Nope: it's not because you post some arguments, that these arguments are convincing.
A lesson that you need to learn.
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Old 7th July 2015, 06:45 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Nope: it's not because you post some arguments, that these arguments are convincing.
What would you need to be convinced?
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Old 7th July 2015, 09:32 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
... there is no law wich forbids dimensions with laws wich are not our laws of nature. ... There is no law in the universe wich forbids nature to be supernatural in other dimensions then our own.
It works slightly different than that: there are no 'laws' permitting any such thing.
Only the 'law' of weak minded irrationality makes false allowance for such things.

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Old 7th July 2015, 11:31 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
All of which are fully explainable by our current scientific understanding of the brain, as has been pointed out multiple times. No fanciful explanation involving other dimensions is necessary or justifiable.
I think his latest "new theory" isn't an explanation at all; it's an excuse for not having one and avoiding the one actually provided.
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:01 PM   #223
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You were dead-on with fringe reset.
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:21 PM   #224
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It's not magic you say? I have a new theory: it's magic!

Why do people even post here if they refuse to discuss anything?
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:24 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
The testimony of a sceptical athe´st scientist:
Is that the opposite of a Chr´st´an scientist ?

Quote:
Do you really think that NDE's or OBE's can be a subject for experiments? No, that's impossible.
Wrong. As usual.

Quote:
Science is limited. It cannot investigate everything.
Wrong.

Quote:
We are talking here about a parallel reality.
No, we're talking about a claim of one's mind leaving their body.

Quote:
A reality wich cannot be discovered by science, because the scientific method is limited.
Circular reasoning. You assume your conclusion and then say that science can't detect it because of your conclusion.
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:26 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I have a new theory about this.
Another one ? Which one is correct ?

Quote:
Because science can't provide a good theory to explain NDE's.
It has. You just don't like the answer because it doesn't agree with your wish to have an immortal soul.
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:37 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
You were dead-on with fringe reset.
Yep. This is like Robert Harris in the JFK thread- we began there something like 30 pages ago trying to explain "burden of proof" to him, and it's circled right back around to that point again (which he still either can't get or just won't admit). Cranks are gonna crank, I guess, and the wheel always gets back to where it started- that's how they "win," not by reason, but by attrition of the reasonable who eventually tire of explaining the same old things over and over and over...
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:40 PM   #228
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I will not allow the facts in any way to change my theory.
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:46 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
It's not magic you say? I have a new theory: it's magic!

Why do people even post here if they refuse to discuss anything?
If I ever spend five years posting on a message board where every single poster disagrees with every single post I make, where there is nothing I can do or say to make them consider the correctness of my views, where I am forced to conclude that they are closed-minded simpletons; then please urge me to see a mental health professional.
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Old 7th July 2015, 12:55 PM   #230
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Even cranks need turning. Are they perpetual notion machines? Zero point energy?
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Old 7th July 2015, 01:06 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
I have a new theory about this. ...
No you don't.
You're leeching off the irrational ideas from others you find on the internet.

Do you hope that by incessantly posting your irrational ideas on a skeptics board you will gain admiration and acceptance by your fellow irrationalists?
Are you trying to work on your self-esteem and identity through such shortcuts?

It's better to learn something. Education education, not bare irrational fantasy and following others in their fantasies.
The perceived self esteem or/and identity you possibly think you'll gain is each a false one.

Be someone you can be, don't try to be someone you can never be .....
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Old 7th July 2015, 04:34 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Even cranks need turning. Are they perpetual notion machines? Zero point energy?
Closest thing to it we'll ever see.
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Old 10th July 2015, 04:44 AM   #233
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Aahhhh the old 'realer than real' argument. OK, its been discussed extensively from about 30 years ago though I reckon its best not to assume some people above actually read.

So, basically, when in situations like the NDE the cortex becomes massively disinhibited and hyperexcitable. If this occurs in certain regions, like the visual cortex, visual association cortex, imagery areas, etc, then the resultant imagery will be realer than real because the level of activity is so much higher than that under normal perceptual conditions. Lots of evidence for this out there in the literature (i.e., drug studies on EEG and experience).

Aberrant activity = aberrant experience (in many cases)
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Old 10th July 2015, 04:46 AM   #234
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I see no evidence here, that those making paranormal claims, have actually read and understood the neuroscientific position on NDEs. Therefore, in essence, they are arguing against their own ignorance and confusion.

I would suggest it prudent that those 'refuting' scientific models are explicit as to what part of the model they don't like, why, and how does their view do a more explicit job
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Old 10th July 2015, 05:13 AM   #235
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I'm sure the neuroclusterbrain model explains it perfectly well....
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Old 10th July 2015, 05:39 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
I'm sure the neuroclusterbrain model explains it perfectly well....
Oy.
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Old 20th July 2015, 06:01 AM   #237
Maartenn100
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You just don't like the answer because it doesn't agree with your wish to have an immortal soul.
No, I doesn't agree with your 'science' wich cannot handle an eternal soul in a brain. Your whole "scientific" idea about the brain would collapse.
An eternal soul is much more reasonable then 'nothing'. What is 'nothing'?

Re-incarnating in something else is the most rational evolution of our souls.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 20th July 2015 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 20th July 2015, 06:02 AM   #238
Donn
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
No, I doesn't agree with your 'science' wich cannot handle an eternal soul in a brain. Your whole scientific idea about the brain would collapse.
If an "eternal soul" could be evidenced, then it would become part of science and our idea about the brain would expand.

See how that works?
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Old 20th July 2015, 06:04 AM   #239
Maartenn100
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I know how that works.

But can you imagine your own non-existence? Your own 'not experiencing things'. You cannot even imagine such an 'idea' of not being somewhere.
So, 'nothing' is not even a beginning of a scientific answer.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.
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Old 20th July 2015, 06:07 AM   #240
Maartenn100
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Imagine that you are 'nowhere' during billions of years. (whatever that means...)
Suddenly you re´ncarnate in a bird or some organism.

It's as if you re´ncarnate the next moment, because you were unaware of these billions of years of 'being nowhere'.

So, re´ncarnation is the most reasonable solution for this problem.

Nothingness is a non-scientific answer.
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If the time interval of one second is everywhere the same for you, wherever you are in the universe, and you follow a straight path (in a curved spacetime) to you, your clock and your local idea of a straight path will determine what you will observe as being curved or expanded space outthere.

Last edited by Maartenn100; 20th July 2015 at 06:16 AM.
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