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Old 5th August 2015, 10:01 AM   #281
Maartenn100
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We are electromanetic phenomena:

(Susan Pockett)
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously. Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time

Last edited by Maartenn100; 5th August 2015 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:06 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's a good question. In my opinion: you are the flow of electrons. Maybe 'electromagnetic radiation'. I don't have all the answers of course.

Susan pocket wrote a book about it.
https://cdn.auckland.ac.nz/assets/ps...Hypothesis.pdf
Quote:
The essence of the present hypothesis can be stated in one sentence. It is that
consciousness is identical with certain spatiotemporal patterns in the
electromagnetic field.
How would these patterns transfer to other bodies?
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:22 AM   #283
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Have you already read the 119 pages? That's fast.
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously. Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:23 AM   #284
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And how can these electromagnetic patterns exist without the brain which generated them?
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:29 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Have you already read the 119 pages? That's fast.
I did pick up on the unsubstantiated non sequitur where the magnetic field 'as a whole', whatever that means, pervades the entire universe.

It's similar to Sheldrakes irrational morphic resonance idea.

Standard woo thinking.
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:29 AM   #286
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Every 'electromagnetic field'-generator can generate consciousness, is a logical conclusion. It doesn't have to be a brain.
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously. Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time

Last edited by Maartenn100; 5th August 2015 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:31 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Every 'electromagnetic field'-generator can generate consciousness, is a logical conclusion.
Quite obviously a non sequitur.

And an insult to the consciousness believer to boot
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:35 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Every 'electromagnetic field'-generator can generate consciousness, is a logical conclusion. ...
I suppose you have named all your electric appliances.

Here's Shirley, she makes me coffee.
Here's my electric razor which I call Hairy Harry.

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Old 5th August 2015, 10:36 AM   #289
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That's what I believe, based on the evidence presented in the book of Susan Pockett.
I believe that we are patterns in the electromagnetic field. That's what we are. Nothing more, nothing less.
You, Daylightstar, are some pattern in the elctromagnetic field generated by the brain. That's your true nature.
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spacetime exists 'outthere'. It's all events together.
We, minds, experience moment by moment the unfolding of events. But that's not how the phenomena exist outthere. In spacetime all events already exist simultaniously. Only the interaction with a mind, establishes the experience of time

Last edited by Maartenn100; 5th August 2015 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:36 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's what I believe, based on the evidence presented in the book of Susan Pockett.
I believe that we are patterns in the electromagnetic field. That's what we are. Nothing more, nothing less.
So, no bodies then?
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:43 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's what I believe, based on the evidence presented in the book of Susan Pockett.
I believe that we are patterns in the electromagnetic field. That's what we are. Nothing more, nothing less.
You, Daylightstar, are some pattern in the elctromagnetic field generated by the brain. That's your true nature.
Hilited added portion after original reply.

I am my body, brain and all my processes combined.
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Old 5th August 2015, 10:50 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
...
I believe that we are patterns in the electromagnetic field. That's what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. ...
Where, according to you, is memory stored, in the brain or in the electromagnetic field patterns of the brain?
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Old 5th August 2015, 12:03 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Your awareness, your feelings: that's you. You are not your body. That's not so difficult to understand, isn't it?
Without my body, I was nothing, and shall return to nothing when it's gone.

How difficult is that to understand?

Unless you have an example of consciousness without a brain?
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Old 5th August 2015, 12:13 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I thought it was a well known fact that the observer affects what is being observed? How does that fit in with the mustard seed analogy?

How do you explain Pi? A number should be finite but Pi is infinite.


This is a common misunderstanding of what the quantum theory actually says: the word "observer" is the culprit, and Fritjof Capra's promulgation of this confusion in his book The Tao of Physics in the 1970s provided new age charlatans with an apparent authority from which to run with a completely false understanding of the facts.

The fact is that an observation is supposedly what collapses the wave function of a quantum system into a definite state. The "observation" is simply a measurement or a sampling, and this can be taken by a mechanical tool such as a camera. No conscious "observer" need be present at all. The whole thing can be an automated process, and the data thus collected can be analysed by a computer.

It is not an observer which determines the state of the system, it is an observation, or simply a recording by a machine. There is no requirement for any consciousness anywhere in the set up.

All this only applies to quantum systems. Anything larger than a subatomic particle is too big for these quantum effects to manifest.

What's more, the camera or whatever does not actually determine anything about what the system collapses into. There is no "affecting" anything in the sense you and the new age buffoons/charlatans are trying to believe: the fantasy that a person can cause any sort of change in the world by using their mind to think about it is exactly nothing more than a fantasy at best, and a scam perpetrated on the ignorant and gullible by charlatans selling mystical healing etc.
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Old 5th August 2015, 01:59 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
I suppose you have named all your electric appliances.

Here's Shirley, she makes me coffee.
Here's my electric razor which I call Hairy Harry.

His wife ran off with their vibrator!
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Old 5th August 2015, 02:29 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Darwin123 View Post
His wife ran off with their vibrator!
Must have happened before the relationship started. He doesn't have a wife.
Perhaps the appliance in question was called Antonio or Valentino
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Old 5th August 2015, 05:29 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
It's a well known oversimplification of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle that causes much misunderstanding, actually.


Rational numbers are finite, irrational numbers are infinite. The word 'should' is inapplicable.
My understanding is that the more you try to isolate a particle the less you will be able to measure it's momentum. If you look at it's momentum then it becomes a part of a wave pattern.

Pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to the diameter. It's a finite quantity yet it is infinite, which makes it irrational.......if numbers can be irrational then any theory based on mathematics has a potential for being inadequate in it's description.

My point here is that science is not a neat little package with pat answers. The conclusion that anything not proven by science simply doesn't exist is not a valid claim.

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Old 5th August 2015, 07:34 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to the diameter. It's a finite quantity yet it is infinite, which makes it irrational.......if numbers can be irrational then any theory based on mathematics has a potential for being inadequate in it's description.
So your issue is that there is a definition and that pi fits that definition?
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:42 PM   #299
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My issue is that there are irrational numbers at all. A number represents a quantity and that should be finite when dividing.
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:44 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Daylightstar View Post
I did pick up on the unsubstantiated non sequitur where the magnetic field 'as a whole', whatever that means, pervades the entire universe.

It's similar to Sheldrakes irrational morphic resonance idea.

Standard woo thinking.
Look up Electric Universe. Or don't. Either you want to actually learn or you don't. Your choice. ETA: Apologies - I quoted this for Martenn, not referring to you and noting what I first noted at the front of this post...........
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:45 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
We are electromanetic phenomena:
http://i60.tinypic.com/ziu80k.jpg
(Susan Pockett)
As to the last on that Puckett chart, no.
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:51 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
As to the last on that Puckett chart, no.
Yea - looks like I have to worry about my electrical outlet being conscious.
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Old 5th August 2015, 07:52 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Every 'electromagnetic field'-generator can generate consciousness, is a logical conclusion. It doesn't have to be a brain.
No. First, please state clearly how your first seven words lead to your next four. Subtle hint: they do not do such in any way.
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Old 5th August 2015, 08:33 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
My issue is that there are irrational numbers at all. A number represents a quantity and that should be finite when dividing.
BY your definition then, 10 is a finite number. So too is the number 3.

If I divide 10 by 3 what finite number should be the answer?
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Old 5th August 2015, 09:04 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
BY your definition then, 10 is a finite number. So too is the number 3.

If I divide 10 by 3 what finite number should be the answer?
If you divide 10 people into 3 groups you will have 3 and 1/3 people in each group.

Numbers are symbols for quantities, quantities are finite.
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Old 5th August 2015, 11:07 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
If you divide 10 people into 3 groups you will have 3 and 1/3 people in each group.

Numbers are symbols for quantities, quantities are finite.
1/3 is irrational: .3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 333333333333333333333333333333333333333....etc.

What is 1/3 of a person?
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Old 6th August 2015, 12:14 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
... ETA: Apologies - I quoted this for Martenn, not referring to you and noting what I first noted at the front of this post...........
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Old 6th August 2015, 12:18 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
If you divide 10 people into 3 groups you will have 3 and 1/3 people in each group.
...
Not necessarily.
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Old 6th August 2015, 01:02 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
My issue is that there are irrational numbers at all. A number represents a quantity and that should be finite when dividing.
Why?
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Old 6th August 2015, 01:50 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to the diameter. It's a finite quantity yet it is infinite, which makes it irrational.......
Pi is greater than 3 but less than 4. In what way is it infinite?
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Old 6th August 2015, 08:08 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
That's what I believe, based on the evidence presented in the book of Susan Pockett.
What evidence is she presenting?
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Old 6th August 2015, 08:43 AM   #312
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Its a funny argument. People also emit hot air; does this now mean that hot air is people?
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Old 6th August 2015, 11:23 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by The Moog View Post
Its a funny argument. People also emit hot air; does this now mean that hot air is people?
Peophole, perhaps.
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Old 6th August 2015, 11:35 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I think for most things the scientific method works wonderfully but I'm not sure how you can definitively say that it is the last word on whether something exists or doesn't exist.
This betrays a deep ignorance of what science, existence and logic are.
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Old 6th August 2015, 05:00 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by The Moog View Post
Its a funny argument. People also emit hot air; does this now mean that hot air is people?
I sometimes feel certain that some people are simply brainfarts - or just farts. Which, of course, are hot air.....
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Old 6th August 2015, 05:16 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Maartenn100 View Post
Every 'electromagnetic field'-generator can generate consciousness, is a logical conclusion. It doesn't have to be a brain.
Honest, there is no truth in that statement. Nor is there any logic in it.

If it helps, reflexive actions (reactions) do not require a brain and are not conscious.
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Old 6th August 2015, 05:40 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post

My issue is that there are irrational numbers at all. A number represents a quantity and that should be finite when dividing.

Why?
Exactly.
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Old 6th August 2015, 08:13 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
1/3 is irrational: .3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 333333333333333333333333333333333333333....etc.

What is 1/3 of a person?
About 30-60 pounds.
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Old 6th August 2015, 08:17 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
I sometimes feel certain that some people are simply brainfarts - or just farts. Which, of course, are hot air.....
As may be found in a Dutch Oven.......http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...m=dutch%20oven


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Old 6th August 2015, 09:11 PM   #320
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