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Tags Brilliant Light Power , free energy , Randell Mills

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Old 10th January 2017, 01:08 PM   #241
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The more I read about it, the more shady it all looks.

Why is the super duper report available in the commercial site of the company and why is it so strangely laid out?

Why were so elemental steps -apparently- omitted, like stating who provided the samples and how the laboratory was sure about the content of those samples?

Why a mechanical engineer within the field of fluid mechanics and thermal science was chosen to perform these tests (no sign of somebody in the field of solid-state physics or from the chemistry area)

All that iron bromide, indium, etc, doesn't suggest something related to solid-state physics to you? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of semiconductor or even a diode was created (but what I learnt on these topics was more than 30 years ago and happily forgotten in a 98% ... I had to make room for post-modernity and incipient arteriosclerosis)

Were the crucibles used "Faraday-caged" enough? Temperatures weren't so low, and at a certain range some reactions seem to have being triggered.

Mystère et boule de gomme...
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:11 PM   #242
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator

We need to put a stop to these lunatics until the environmental impact of their pollutant can be tested. They claim to be producing hydrino gas. Unless this is a con job, it will be trivial to collect it for testing.

First we need to get the EPA involved. This company has proven it has no intention of testing this stuff or having it tested so the government needs to get involved.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/repo...tal-violations

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Old 10th January 2017, 01:18 PM   #243
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According to their web site they're located in New Jersey.
http://brilliantlightpower.com/contact-careers/

Brilliant Light Power Inc.
493 Old Trenton Rd.
Cranbury, NJ 08512

609 490 1090 main
609 490 1066 fax

This means there are a couple of state level agencies that need to look into this company too.

http://www.nj.gov/dep/enforcement/opppc.html

http://www.nj.gov/dep/daq/

"Clean" energy isn't clean if it produces a poison that kills us all.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:20 PM   #244
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Where's Walter Peck when you need him?

(Actually, that particular fictional character is not who I'd call. As others have pointed out, he was just doing his job by addressing an unknown, undocumented, and unlicensed environmental hazard. So far so good. But "we don't know what's in this 'containment facility' so shut down its power" makes no more sense than "we don't know what's in these metal drums so pour them out into the river immediately.")
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:25 PM   #245
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Nonreactive gas that is much less dense than the atmosphere and produces UV. So what does this do to the ozone layer when it drifts up there? In the presence of the Sun's UV will it react with ozone?

We only recently stopped using a highly stable compound (ie. relatively unreactive) because it was destroying the ozone.

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Old 10th January 2017, 01:27 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Or why not simply dunk the output end - where all this heat is created - into a swimming pool and measure the temperature rise.
They did that. It's called a bomb calorimetry test. Several these were done by different university professors who acted as validators. You can watch the video in the OP to see it being done yourself.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:29 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Where's Walter Peck when you need him?

(Actually, that particular fictional character is not who I'd call. As others have pointed out, he was just doing his job by addressing an unknown, undocumented, and unlicensed environmental hazard. So far so good. But "we don't know what's in this 'containment facility' so shut down its power" makes no more sense than "we don't know what's in these metal drums so pour them out into the river immediately.")
Shutting down power did not work out for the Ghostbusters either.:
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:31 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
They did that. It's called a bomb calorimetry test. Several these were done by different university professors who acted as validators. You can watch the video in the OP to see it being done yourself.
What? You provided a link to one study done "by a university professor" and the most he gathered were 150 Joules.

Apparently you don't read what you're selling.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:32 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Oh please, let's blame the sun for dumping 1367 watts per square meter while we are at it.

The sun is causing global warming!'
Ah, so why not just give the ol' sun some more help then?


Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Multi-family apartments will not need a unit per household, and I doubt they will be dumping a whole megawatt per unit.
And more centralized power distribution improves on that concept. Not only for people who don't live in "Multi-family apartments" but for even multiple, well, multi-family apartment buildings.


Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Air is a pretty effective insulator. There's no environmental impact of note. Nothing for the green army to tax into oblivion.
Air is only an effective insulator if it is not allowed to convex. Unless you are claiming all the waste heat is retained in the generator until it essentially melts down, then yes it generates more waste heat energy than it produces electrical energy. That's more of an environmental impact than a power generation impact.


Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Mills is estimating the current bulb will run at a controlled 330 kw, with 11 to 20% of that being directly converted into energy depending on the number of junctions used. This does not include reflected light, which can up the efficiency dramatically. Future cell technology will allow for even higher efficiency, which will further reduce the total heat dumped.
Great so 80 to 89 % is wasted as heat, some 260 kw. 4 times (400% ) the amount "being directly converted into energy". You're better off using the heat and dumping the "11 to 20% of that being directly converted into energy depending on the number of junctions used". You use four times the energy from your fuel than before and reduce your waste to 1/4 of the previous estimate.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:36 PM   #250
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Duplicate

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Old 10th January 2017, 01:38 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
A back of an envelope calculation with 13.6 eV ground state hydrogen puts the maximum (ground to zip) at about 91 nm wavelength. That's ultraviolet closer to X-rays then to the visual spectrum. Since zero electron orbital energy is probably too much of a scam giveaway, you have to figure the claim to be anywhere from radio to UV. Heck, unless you're really pushing the claimed orbital difference you're probably talking about microwave to IR. Both probably better at just heating water.
Oops, looks like I must have used the front of the envelop and not the back, getting it reversed. As a bound state, the 13.6 eV is an energy deficit. So 91 nm is the photon wavelength (energy) needed to ionize it from ground.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:47 PM   #252
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The amount of wasted heat put out by Mills generator is less than BMW 7 series revving its engine in neutral.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:54 PM   #253
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator

To summarize the thread so far:

If the company's claims are true this generator will:

Produce more waste heat than any other energy source on the planet by a few orders of magnitude.

Doesn't even extract energy from most the heat it generates, making it far LESS efficient than nuclear power.

Generates a massive quantity of a biohazard whose effects on living systems have not been studied, but has the potential to make Chernobyl look like uncle Bill dumping his auto oil in the sewer to save money.

Breaks down water into a contaminate that may restart and accelerate the decay of the ozone layer AND give global warming an additional boost.
This isn't an energy company, it's a frigging "Captain Planet" villain for Christ's sake.
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:56 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
This thread is wonderful. It seems to be the "let's inflate the stock balloon" version of these ones:
The whole idea of using it to power a light bulb that then generates electricity from photovoltaics reminds me a little of the Holman Horror. Which, of course, was another scam to part investors from their money that never had the faintest chance of working.

Dave
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Old 10th January 2017, 01:57 PM   #255
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator

Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The amount of wasted heat put out by Mills generator is less than BMW 7 series revving its engine in neutral.


You haven't actually DONE the math on the company's claims have you?

The people in this thread are crunching the numbers, something the marketing slime who sold you on this environmental catastrophe company didn't do.

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Old 10th January 2017, 01:58 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The amount of wasted heat put out by Mills generator is less than BMW 7 series revving its engine in neutral.
Sorry, but you keep throwing repetitive snippets at the thread to keep the illusion there's something serious behind.

What you're doing is Dale Carnegie's manual to the dot: when doubts and critics are piling up just repeat a selling phrase which may have a positive nuance, no matter that is not what you have to do to follow the conversation.
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:00 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The amount of wasted heat put out by Mills generator is less than BMW 7 series revving its engine in neutral.
And I suspect the thermodynamic efficiency is about the same.

Dave
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:12 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
The whole idea of using it to power a light bulb that then generates electricity from photovoltaics reminds me a little of the Holman Horror. Which, of course, was another scam to part investors from their money that never had the faintest chance of working.



Dave


Sweet Jesus. That looks like something a fan-fiction writer created for a Thomas the Tank Engine story set in the Lovecraft universe.
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:36 PM   #259
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I see that the OP has penned a piece modestly titled, Randell L. Mills – A Living Legend, Greater Than Einstein and Tesla Combined for a site called Libertarian News:

Originally Posted by Michael Suede
...Dr. Randell L. Mills, a Harvard trained medical doctor, who developed this generator and the physical theory behind it, will be remembered throughout the remainder of human history as the single greatest being to ever have lived. A billion trillion years from now, people will still be discussing his theories and his invention. Mills invention is no less transformative than the discovery of fire. It’s a far greater achievement than the combustion engine or the telephone.

In one fell swoop, Mills will have overturned the standing theories of physics, dismantled the power grid, put an end to virtually all air pollution, put an end to poverty, put an end to wars over energy resources, opened up the entire planet to human habitation, put a serious dent in the ability of politics to control people, and saved limitless lives in the future due to a lack of power.

To be alive at the same time as Mills is a cosmic treat...
It appears that most of michaelsuede's points in this thread are captured in the treatise. The website apparently belongs to him and is primarily his work.

Michael, I find the layout very clean and crisp, and clearly a lot of work has gone into it. Although we diverge on at least a significant fraction of the content, I really applaud your effort on that site.
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:39 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Michael, I find the layout very clean and crisp, and clearly a lot of work has gone into it. Although we diverge on at least a significant fraction of the content, I really applaud your effort on that site.
I thank you for the kind words.
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:48 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
They did that. It's called a bomb calorimetry test. Several these were done by different university professors who acted as validators. You can watch the video in the OP to see it being done yourself.
You've stuck your neck out so be prepared one year from now to very like have your head served on a *silver platter. To be sure we will remember your prediction and we will be relentless in mocking your belief in this boondoggle.

Why am I not surprised you also believe in the electric universe?

* Actually silver isn't appropriate. Perhaps lead, it's a dense metal.
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Old 10th January 2017, 02:51 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
You've stuck your neck out so be prepared one year from now to very like have your head served on a *silver platter. To be sure we will remember your prediction and we will be relentless in mocking your belief in this boondoggle.

Why am I not surprised you also believe in the electric universe?

* Actually silver isn't appropriate. Perhaps lead, it's a dense metal.
I'm not too concerned.

I think Mills will beat the timeline established by a fair margin actually.

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Old 10th January 2017, 03:04 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The amount of wasted heat put out by Mills generator is less than BMW 7 series revving its engine in neutral.
Just what we need, a crap load of BMW 7 series revving their engines in neutral.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:06 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
Just what we need, a crap load of BMW 7 series revving their engines in neutral.
Mills said he's going to make the generator housings look like European sports cars so people can stick them in their driveways without anyone noticing.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:16 PM   #265
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Who's Mills writer? Matt Groening?
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:18 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Mills said he's going to make the generator housings look like European sports cars so people can stick them in their driveways without anyone noticing.

Wait, what, people don't notice new sports cars?!?! Someone should tell the sports car industry!!!!
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:26 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Mills said he's going to make the generator housings look like European sports cars so people can stick them in their driveways without anyone noticing.
When I win the big lottery prize, I am going to buy meself one of them European sports cars. And a big house - one with columns and stuff. And a pool.
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:29 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
The whole idea of using it to power a light bulb that then generates electricity from photovoltaics reminds me a little of the Holman Horror. Which, of course, was another scam to part investors from their money that never had the faintest chance of working.

Dave
What the hell??? It's like disco platform shoes for a steam engine. Does anyone have a clue what the supposed benefit of a taller steam engine would be?
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Old 10th January 2017, 03:54 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
Mills said he's going to make the generator housings look like European sports cars so people can stick them in their driveways without anyone noticing.

You're kidding, right?

That was supposed to be a joke, right?

So people are supposed to lose a valuable parking space in order to plop down something thieves are pretty much guaranteed to try and steal and, discovering what it is, vandalize out of spite.

Were you joking or is Mills really that out of touch and moronic? The fact that he's planning to generate massive clouds of toxic gas makes it hard to tell if a dumb idea attributed to him is a joke or reality.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:08 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
To summarize the thread so far:

If the company's claims are true this generator will:

Produce more waste heat than any other energy source on the planet by a few orders of magnitude.

Doesn't even extract energy from most the heat it generates, making it far LESS efficient than nuclear power.

Generates a massive quantity of a biohazard whose effects on living systems have not been studied, but has the potential to make Chernobyl look like uncle Bill dumping his auto oil in the sewer to save money.

Breaks down water into a contaminate that may restart and accelerate the decay of the ozone layer AND give global warming an additional boost.
This isn't an energy company, it's a frigging "Captain Planet" villain for Christ's sake.
Or it's just a scam like all other so-called "free energy" generators.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:12 PM   #271
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I've changed my mind. An inert, lighter than air gas is just what we need. We have to start replacing our depleted helium stores with something. Hydrinos are just the ticket.

Forget all this power generation nonsense, let's start manufacturing a helium replacement instead.

Naturally, we'll need some more stats - things like density, compressibility, behavior under different temperature and pressure conditions. Where can I email Dr. Mills for the data? I volunteer to take on this important, currently overlooked task to reveal the boon. Because I serve man. Kind. Kind of.

ETA: Also, because I know the players at IUPAC read this forum, I would like to suggest the name "Imperial gas" as a natural extension of noble gas.

Last edited by marplots; 10th January 2017 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:19 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
What the hell??? It's like disco platform shoes for a steam engine. Does anyone have a clue what the supposed benefit of a taller steam engine would be?
I had two thoughts:

1: Distribute the weight across more wheels, kind of like tracked vehicles do. Maybe good for tracks that were built on poor footings or with rotten ties/sleepers.

2: Improve traction. Normally each wheel has one point of contact with the tracks. This way each drive wheel has two points of contact (one with each of the first-tier extra wheels) and each of the first-tier wheels has two-points of contact with the second-tier extra wheels (not sure what else to call them).

I guess in that respect I don't understand the Hollman Horror's websites criticism of the thing. It claims that more wheel-wheel interface would creat more slippage. I would think the opposite to be true - more surface area contact would reduce slippage.

I would guess that they were thinking along with one or both of those ideas, but were probably wrong. It would be overly complicated and top heavy.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:25 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
... something a fan-fiction writer created for a Thomas the Tank Engine story set in the Lovecraft universe.
I want to read that story. Please provide a link when ready.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:33 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
That's not an answer to the questions I asked.

If this is non-reactive as you assert, then why did he apply for multiple patents on hydrino-containing compounds?

Please explain this discrepancy, or admit that you can't (or won't) explain it.


So, no response to the clear contradiction in Mills' own work. Not surprised, really.
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Old 10th January 2017, 04:46 PM   #275
bruto
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
I had two thoughts:

1: Distribute the weight across more wheels, kind of like tracked vehicles do. Maybe good for tracks that were built on poor footings or with rotten ties/sleepers.

2: Improve traction. Normally each wheel has one point of contact with the tracks. This way each drive wheel has two points of contact (one with each of the first-tier extra wheels) and each of the first-tier wheels has two-points of contact with the second-tier extra wheels (not sure what else to call them).

I guess in that respect I don't understand the Hollman Horror's websites criticism of the thing. It claims that more wheel-wheel interface would creat more slippage. I would think the opposite to be true - more surface area contact would reduce slippage.

I would guess that they were thinking along with one or both of those ideas, but were probably wrong. It would be overly complicated and top heavy.
It's an interesting idea, and one can conceive of it having been the reason, but I'm not sure it works, as a component of wheel slippage is weight distribution. In other words, though the surface area of many little wheels might be marginally greater than that of one big one, the pressure is also reduced. Add to that that much of the slippage will occur at interfaces other than the wheel to track, and that the mechanism will dissipate a lot of potential energy, and if there were any slight advantage it would likely disappear in the implementation. At a given speed, small wheels will also spin much faster, and I suspect wear would become more of a factor.

A tracked vehicle is not necessarily the best example. A tracked vehicle is actually a track laying vehicle, properly speaking, and what it does is to lay down at one end, and pick up at the other, a cleated or high traction track which is designed specifically not to roll, over which the internal rollers then roll. Ideally, the track does not move against the surface at all, and as a result it can be as knotty and gnarly and un-rollable as the surface it travels over allows.

I haven't studied the engineering of this at any length, and this is certainly a thread divergence if not derailment, so one must leave it there despite its being in some ways more interesting than voodoo physics. But I suspect that the Holman Horror might have been, in part, a sincere effort based on bad theory. If the basic idea of many small wheels on the track had merit, it could have been done, I think, by gearing rather than by multiplication of wheels. Of course the history of fraud is varied, but the fact that actual locomotives were made suggests pie in the sky engineering more than scamming here.
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Old 10th January 2017, 05:16 PM   #276
hecd2
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Originally Posted by michaelsuede View Post
The amount of wasted heat put out by Mills generator is less than BMW 7 series revving its engine in neutral.
We can quantify this. We "know" that the wasted power from a Mills generator is 260kW (according to Michael) to produce 66kW.

The energy content of a litre of petrol (gasoline for my North American friends) is about 9kWh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoli...lon_equivalent). So running a Mills generator for an hour would produce the same wasted energy as burning 28.9 litres of petrol.

A BMW 7 series running at a steady 75mph for an hour will burn about 13 litres of petrol (approx 25 miles per imperial gallon) - that's about 117kW. So Michael is claiming that revving a 7 series under no load (in neutral) will burn more than twice as much petrol as running the car under load at 75mph.That's bonkers.

Under load, at 75mph, the 7 series will use about 30kW to overcome friction and air resistance (see for example the power of a Tesla Model S at 75 mph - approx 350-400Wh per mile) - the remaining 77kW is lost to heat. Compare that with the Mills 260kW. And nobody runs their car 24/7 like an energy generator.

So I dismiss Michael's brush-off - it, like many of his claims, appears not to be based in reality. The heat, the heat!

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Old 10th January 2017, 05:18 PM   #277
halleyscomet
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Brilliant Light Power Going To Market - Free Energy Generator

Originally Posted by The Sparrow View Post
I want to read that story. Please provide a link when ready.

I'm already working on a Power Rangers / Hogwarts crossover for my eldest son. I'm going to tie it into the "Professor Constantine of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry" Stories I've been working on.

The Hunt for Lucius Malfoy is a tangential story in the continuity.

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Old 10th January 2017, 05:54 PM   #278
michaelsuede
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Originally Posted by hecd2 View Post
A BMW 7 series running at a steady 75mph for an hour will burn about 13 litres of petrol (approx 25 miles per imperial gallon) - that's about 117kW.
I'm not sure where you're getting your data from, but a 7 series will blow through way more than 25 mpg at peak power. I said a BMW 7 series revving its engine in neutral, so already you're grossly distorting my original claim.

Wiki to the rescue:

BMW 7 Series 760Li 6 L V12 2006 engine operates at 327 kW / 439 bhp.

So at peak load, that engine is roughly the equivalent of Mills generator.

As for how global warming fits into all of this, I'm completely at a loss. I've never heard a climatologist reference engine heat as a driver of so-called global warming.
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Old 10th January 2017, 05:56 PM   #279
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Hyrdrino Critical Analysis paper using quantum theory

Here is a link to a paper, which shows that the functions describing the Hydrinos' orbital states cannot be used to describe the higher energy states (hydrogen). You would think that Mills could at least have made up equations that generalize to all states of Hydrogen (Hydrino all the way up to where Hydrogen is on the verge of ionizing), but he couldn't even do this. Personally I feel that it is more likely that the remarkable accuracy of measurement predictions by quantum theory over the last century compared to actual measurements means that it should not be discarded in favor of Mills replacement of it. A key quote from the paper:
"In this paper we have considered the theoretical foundations of the hydrino hypothesis,
both within the theoretical framework of CQM, in which hydrinos were
originally suggested, and within standard quantum mechanics. We found that
CQM is inconsistent and has several serious de ciencies. Amongst these are
the failure to reproduce the energy levels of the excited states of the hydrogen
atom, and the absence of Lorentz invariance.
"

http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/doc/PHY/A...ke-hydrino.pdf

Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
<snip>
Question 2: A hydrino is supposed to be a hydrogen atom, just with an electron in a lower orbit than that allowed by a century-plus of quantum mechanical theory and observation. <snip>
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Old 10th January 2017, 05:56 PM   #280
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Except a BMW is a demonstrated generator of power?
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