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Tags Affordable Care Act , AHCA , donald trump , health care issues , health insurance issues , obamacare , Trumpcare

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Old 16th January 2017, 10:01 AM   #1
C_Felix
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Trump: "[health] insurance for everybody," Replacing the ACA

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15005C

The ACA requires you have health insurance.

Remember the cries of "SOCIALISM!"

Looks like Mr. Trump might be a socialist as well.

Trump vows 'insurance for everybody' in replacing Obamacare.

"“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” Mr. Trump said.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:04 AM   #2
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It's meaningless. They will offer something for all. What it is and costs will be seen later. Many will not afford it.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:06 AM   #3
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$5 says they just try to put a party hat on their 'state lines and more deregulations' bit they've been pushing as an alternative.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:13 AM   #4
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Well unless they're going to "repeal" the ACA and suddenly throw hundreds of billions of dollars of subsidy at the problem I cannot see how they are going to lower deductibles, cover everyone and keep premiums in the current ballpark.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:13 AM   #5
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Health insurance for everybody is a good idea. In my country, we have had that for three generations. But where is Mr. Trump going to find the money?

Hans
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Health insurance for everybody is a good idea. In my country, we have had that for three generations. But where is Mr. Trump going to find the money?

Hans
He will make canada pay for it.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:16 AM   #7
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Another example of Trump's divorce from reality.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:16 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Another example of Trump's divorce from reality.
I don't think they were ever married...
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:18 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I don't think they were ever married...
I'm not even sure they ever met...
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:22 AM   #10
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So Single Payer?
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:22 AM   #11
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It's right in there with the secret plan for defeating ISIS and the plan for The Southern Maginot Line That Mexico Will Pay For. Not to mention the foolproof plan to make coal King again.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:24 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Health insurance for everybody is a good idea. In my country, we have had that for three generations. But where is Mr. Trump going to find the money?

Hans
My wife was telling me about a friend who was apparently in a car accident last weekend. Didn't need ambulance or anything, but the day after was throwing up.

She asked for advice on facebook. The obvious answer was, "go to the doctor." No, she didn't want to do that because she wanted avoid the doctor bill.

There's the answer to our health care problems! Just use facebook. It's free!
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:30 AM   #13
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There was alrrerady insurance for everybody before Obamacare, they just had to pay for it. That'll be the new plan.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:35 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
It's right in there with the secret plan for defeating ISIS and the plan for The Southern Maginot Line That Mexico Will Pay For. Not to mention the foolproof plan to make coal King again.
This made me laugh quite a bit harder than it should have.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:35 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
There was alrrerady insurance for everybody before Obamacare, they just had to pay for it. That'll be the new plan.
Not true. Neither myself nor my wife could purchase health coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

I have said this before, but a lot of the confusion and acrimony surrounding this discussion would go away if we stopped calling it health "insurance."

Insurance is something purchased to hedge your bets against something that may or may not happen. This is not the case with health care -- you will need it, unless you die by jumping out of an airplane.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:38 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
So Single Payer?
I hear this term a lot and can't quite wrap my head around it. What's the cliffs notes version?
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:41 AM   #17
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The government = the insurance provider.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:42 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I hear this term a lot and can't quite wrap my head around it. What's the cliffs notes version?
Basic health care coverage is paid by the government through taxes. In effect, the government becomes the insurer for the basics (or more depending on the system).
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:45 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Varanid View Post
Not true. Neither myself nor my wife could purchase health coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
Yeah, and that's why Ryan has been babbling about making it so everyone "has access" to insurance.

In the Ryan plan, insurance companies can't deny you insurance. Of course, you will pay through the ass for it, but you "have access." Therefore, if you don't get insurance, it is your fault, not the company's. I mean, just because you aren't able to pay $10K/mo premiums doesn't mean you don't have access.


Quote:
I have said this before, but a lot of the confusion and acrimony surrounding this discussion would go away if we stopped calling it health "insurance."

Insurance is something purchased to hedge your bets against something that may or may not happen. This is not the case with health care -- you will need it, unless you die by jumping out of an airplane.
But in the end, that's what insurance IS! It's not a payment plan, you are paying for _insurance_, not the doctor bills.

This is one of the biggest problems we have, that people don't understand what insurance means. Remember, one of the fundamental principles of insurance is that most people pay more in premiums than they get back. But that is because you aren't paying into a payment program, you are paying for insurance that your bills will be covered in the selected circumstances.

The problem we have with insurance is that people think they need to "win" to get their money's worth. No, they don't. Insurance that you will be covered has value. That is what you pay for.
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Old 16th January 2017, 10:45 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by CynicalSkeptic View Post
The government = the insurance provider.
And the net benefit is a single risk pool, which is what the ACA should have done. Instead it combined the risk of people with pre-existing conditions with a group that tended to be young, healthy and poor. The young people were told they need to pay their fair share, but unwilling to sacrifice food for other peoples healthcare, a lot of young people opted out which is increasing prices again...

A single risk pool, or barring that, state-wide risk pools per insurance company, are the only reasonable alternatives.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:09 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I hear this term a lot and can't quite wrap my head around it. What's the cliffs notes version?
Basically like Medicare. Care provided by private doctors and hospitals, bills paid by a government plan from taxes paid by everyone and supplementary premiums paid by the insured. As opposed to national systems where providers are government employees, like the VA and Britain's National Health.

The four main models of how to provide health coverage:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...es/models.html

Last edited by Bob001; 16th January 2017 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:17 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Newtons Bit View Post
And the net benefit is a single risk pool, which is what the ACA should have done. Instead it combined the risk of people with pre-existing conditions with a group that tended to be young, healthy and poor. The young people were told they need to pay their fair share, but unwilling to sacrifice food for other peoples healthcare, a lot of young people opted out which is increasing prices again...

A single risk pool, or barring that, state-wide risk pools per insurance company, are the only reasonable alternatives.
That's "community rating," which is often resisted because it would tend to hold down premiums for people in the individual market but boost them for people in big corporate plans.
http://www.healthinsurance.org/gloss...munity-rating/
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:25 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
.....
This is one of the biggest problems we have, that people don't understand what insurance means. Remember, one of the fundamental principles of insurance is that most people pay more in premiums than they get back. But that is because you aren't paying into a payment program, you are paying for insurance that your bills will be covered in the selected circumstances.

The problem we have with insurance is that people think they need to "win" to get their money's worth. No, they don't. Insurance that you will be covered has value. That is what you pay for.
I don't think that's true. We buy car insurance and still hope we never have an accident. We buy homeowners' insurance, but we don't want our houses to burn down. We understand we're paying for protection against catastrophe. The underlying problem is that people with good corporate health insurance don't fully understand how much health care actually costs, so that's why our premiums seem high. We pay our little copay, and the doc or the hospital bills the insurance company for hundreds or thousands of dollars. The uncontrolled cost of care pretty much drives everything else in our health care system.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:27 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I don't think that's true. We buy car insurance and still hope we never have an accident. We buy homeowners' insurance, but we don't want our houses to burn down.
Yeah, that's the odd thing about it. We understand for car insurance that our goal is to never use it. But when it comes to health insurance, we feel we have to "win" and get more out of it than we put in. We understand other insurance, but don't treat health insurance that way.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
$5 says they just try to put a party hat on their 'state lines and more deregulations' bit they've been pushing as an alternative.
I have 10 on betting they will have a minimum plan which will cost nothing e.g. 30$ but offer no protection and have you pay your own health care until it reach a very high minimum , say 30.000$.

Like many such "cheap" plan people were talking about but in reality offered no coverage whatsoever.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:49 AM   #26
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I love how people say Trump can't provide health-care for everyone. These are the same naysayers who said he "couldn't" win. He's going to prove so many of you wrong again and again and again that eventually you're going to get tired of being proven wrong.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:52 AM   #27
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so..what does it cost you to go to the doc?
for example, a basic preventative check like a pap smear, what would that cost you?
for me, it's $35 or $40 after I pay in full the balance is automatically credited back to my account,
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:58 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
I have 10 on betting they will have a minimum plan which will cost nothing e.g. 30$ but offer no protection and have you pay your own health care until it reach a very high minimum , say 30.000$.

Like many such "cheap" plan people were talking about but in reality offered no coverage whatsoever.
$30,000 isn't much. I had my gall bladder out and it was over $40,000.

My daughter went to the emergency room and was there 3 hours, had some tests and they sent her home = $5600.
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:02 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I love how people say Trump can't provide health-care for everyone. These are the same naysayers who said he "couldn't" win. He's going to prove so many of you wrong again and again and again that eventually you're going to get tired of being proven wrong.
I hope I'm wrong but I can't see how and Trump's lack of transparency on everything doesn't help inspire any hope.

For instance, there is the problem that all the Republican who ran on just repealing Obamacare. A lot of them don't want a replacement. How is Trump going to change their minds?
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:14 PM   #30
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“There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.”


Wouldn't those "circles" be the Republican Party?




Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He will make canada pay for it.


And honestly, at this point I think we'd almost be willing to do that, if for no other reason than to get the lot of them to shut up about it......
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I don't think they were ever married...
Good point.
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:40 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I love how people say Trump can't provide health-care for everyone. These are the same naysayers who said he "couldn't" win. He's going to prove so many of you wrong again and again and again that eventually you're going to get tired of being proven wrong.
Ahhhh, that's the old Cain I missed.
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:49 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by mikado View Post
so..what does it cost you to go to the doc?
for example, a basic preventative check like a pap smear, what would that cost you?
for me, it's $35 or $40 after I pay in full the balance is automatically credited back to my account,
My son needs a root canal and the dentist wants $1300 up front. In America that isn't "health care", yet it directly effects his health.
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
My wife was telling me about a friend who was apparently in a car accident last weekend. Didn't need ambulance or anything, but the day after was throwing up.

She asked for advice on facebook. The obvious answer was, "go to the doctor." No, she didn't want to do that because she wanted avoid the doctor bill.

There's the answer to our health care problems! Just use facebook. It's free!
I think Mr. Trump prefers Twitter...
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Old 16th January 2017, 12:59 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Varanid View Post
Not true. Neither myself nor my wife could purchase health coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

I have said this before, but a lot of the confusion and acrimony surrounding this discussion would go away if we stopped calling it health "insurance."

Insurance is something purchased to hedge your bets against something that may or may not happen. This is not the case with health care -- you will need it, unless you die by jumping out of an airplane.
Ah, good point. Let me revise my previous post:

Health care for everybody is a good idea. My country has had it for three generations. Where would Mr. Trump find the money for that?

Hans
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Old 16th January 2017, 01:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Ah, good point. Let me revise my previous post:

Health care for everybody is a good idea. My country has had it for three generations. Where would Mr. Trump find the money for that?

Hans
The point is that the U.S spends enormous amount of money on health care now. Plans for a single-payer system would transfer the money now being spent on insurance premiums, deductibles and co-pays, uncompensated care, administrative expenses, etc. to the public purse. If your taxes went up to pay for Medicare-for-All or something like that, but you no longer had to pay insurance premiums or big deductibles, would it really be more money, and would you be better off or worse?
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Old 16th January 2017, 01:45 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I think Mr. Trump prefers Twitter...
So under Trump's healthcare plan, I can ask him via Twitter for medical advice?
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Old 16th January 2017, 01:48 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He will make canada pay for it.
No, no, He will have Canada "reimburse" the USA for it.

We will pay it in lumber.
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Old 16th January 2017, 01:49 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
So under Trump's healthcare plan, I can ask him via Twitter for medical advice?
No, not unless you are a registered Republican. You will then be required to follow his advice as well.
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Old 16th January 2017, 01:51 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
My son needs a root canal and the dentist wants $1300 up front. In America that isn't "health care", yet it directly effects his health.
ahhh, there's the rub. In the Canadian province of Ontario dental procedures are also not covered, UNLESS, there is a danger to life involved. Not sure if root canal qualifies.
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