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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:35 AM   #41
Slings and Arrows
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
'No borders, no nations, **** deportations!'

Hillary's 2020 campaign slogan!
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:37 AM   #42
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It's interesting to see how the denunciations from the left are all of the "this hurts our cause" variety. It's a question of tactics for them, not of right and wrong. That's because they actually see Milo and his supporters as evil, not as people who simply have a different point of view and have the same right to express it as anybody else.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:40 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
It's interesting to see how the denunciations from the left are all of the "this hurts our cause" variety. It's a question of tactics for them, not of right and wrong. That's because they actually see Milo and his supporters as evil, not as people who simply have a different point of view and have the same right to express it as anybody else.
That's a somewhat false dilemma.

In my view, it is both wrong and stupid counterproductive tactics.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:46 AM   #44
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I don't remember agreeing to tolerate absolutely everything just because most of my political opinions fall into the left-hand side of the American political spectrum.

As in most of life, the Golden Rule applies. This particular jerk doesn't seem keen on tolerance for others, I can't see why he thinks he's in a position to demand it for himself.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:46 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Firestone View Post
That's a somewhat false dilemma.

In my view, it is both wrong and stupid counterproductive tactics.
Well, you're the first anti-Milo poster in the thread to express such a sentiment. Even Puppycow, who is one of the most thoughtful and civil posters here, only expressed disapproval of the riot in terms of its practical effect rather than whether or not it was morally acceptable.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I don't remember agreeing to tolerate absolutely everything just because most of my political opinions fall into the left-hand side of the American political spectrum.

As in most of life, the Golden Rule applies. This particular jerk doesn't seem keen on tolerance for others, I can't see why he thinks he's in a position to demand it for himself.
It doesn't appear to me that you understand what the Golden Rule is.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 05:56 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
It doesn't appear to me that you understand what the Golden Rule is.
"Do unto others as they do unto you." There was another version for a while but it proved to be wishful thinking, and ineffective.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:01 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
"Do unto others as they do unto you." There was another version for a while but it proved to be wishful thinking, and ineffective.
Well, really it should be "do not unto others as you would have them not do unto you," but, yeah, that's the gist of it. So how does the Golden Rule apply to Milo? He gives speeches and writes articles which attack political correctness and the people who try to enforce it on the rest of the population (for convenience, I'll call them SJWs, but I don't mean it to disparage). The SJWs are already giving speeches and writing articles which denounce Milo and people of his ilk. Have Milo and his supporters ever disrupted an SJW event? Ever harassed SJWs physically, or shouted in their faces up close? Ever rioted? Ever?

So then how does the Golden Rule apply except to show that the anti-Milo protesters are violating it?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:06 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Well, really it should be "do not unto others as you would have them not do unto you," but, yeah, that's the gist of it. So how does the Golden Rule apply to Milo? He gives speeches and writes articles which attack political correctness and the people who try to enforce it on the rest of the population (for convenience, I'll call them SJWs, but I don't mean it to disparage). The SJWs are already giving speeches and writing articles which denounce Milo and people of his ilk. Have Milo and his supporters ever disrupted an SJW event? Ever harassed SJWs physically, or shouted in their faces up close? Ever rioted? Ever?

So then how does the Golden Rule apply except to show that the anti-Milo protesters are violating it?
Exactly as I said: he doesn't tolerate others, therefore others don't tolerate him. That his opponents have chosen different tactics doesn't alter the root of the problem. If he wants to run crying to Mommy because people are tired of his crap and didn't confine their disapproval within bounds he's comfortable in, too bad. Actions have consequences. That's politics.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:08 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Exactly as I said: he doesn't tolerate others, therefore others don't tolerate him. That his opponents have chosen different tactics doesn't alter the root of the problem. If he wants to run crying to Mommy because people are tired of his crap and didn't confine their disapproval within bounds he's comfortable in, too bad. Actions have consequences. That's politics.
Ok, I see that you really don't understand the Golden Rule, despite being able to recite it.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:10 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
The alt-right and ctrl-left were made for each other.
Now we just need to hit the third key and reboot.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:23 AM   #52
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President Donald J. Trump on Twitter (February 2, 2017):
"If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view - NO FEDERAL FUNDS?"
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:30 AM   #53
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Milo Yiannopoulos is Jewish, openly gay, and he was born in Greece.

That makes those who hate him and want to silence him anti-semitic, homophobic, and xenophobic.

This says a lot about the supposed "tolerance" of the left when they attack and silence a gay Jewish man who hails from a foreign country.

Hypocrites.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:30 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Actually, Milo has been met with meltdowns by liberals on campus where ever he has gone. They've never reached the level of vandalism in Berkeley last night, but there have almost always been organized disruptions of his speeches and harassment of people on their way to his talk or leaving it.
In the best conservative right-to-life tradition, then?
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:33 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Agreed. Progressive politicians need to reach out to these misguided individuals and harness their rage for the struggle to come. Properly deployed, these kinds of actions can do wonders for a resistance movement.
I'm sure they care a lot about your so-called "progressive politicians". Probably as much as they care about some random person on the internet saying when they can and can not light a fire.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:36 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
President Donald J. Trump on Twitter (February 2, 2017):
"If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view - NO FEDERAL FUNDS?"
We could have one of those school desegregation circuses. Get the national guard to form a cordon while Milo and his audience do the perp walk into the venue. Good optics.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:37 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
In the best conservative right-to-life tradition, then?
The right-to-lifers who harass women and doctors at abortion clinics have no sympathy from me. I'll note, however, that in Massachusetts the government has tried to crack down on those people pretty hard.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:49 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Slings and Arrows View Post
President Donald J. Trump on Twitter (February 2, 2017):
"If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view - NO FEDERAL FUNDS?"
In the spirit of your and logger's posts. Suck it up, losers! We won. UCB has cancelled further appearances by the misogynist creep.

That's all that matters. Score one for the shout-em-down critics!! Woooooot!
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It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:49 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Actually, Milo has been met with meltdowns by liberals on campus where ever he has gone. They've never reached the level of vandalism in Berkeley last night, but there have almost always been organized disruptions of his speeches and harassment of people on their way to his talk or leaving it.
By liberals?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 06:55 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
In the spirit of your and logger's posts. Suck it up, losers! We won. UCB has cancelled further appearances by the misogynist creep.

That's all that matters. Score one for the shout-em-down critics!! Woooooot!
That calls for a song
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:15 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
It's interesting to see how the denunciations from the left are all of the "this hurts our cause" variety. It's a question of tactics for them, not of right and wrong. That's because they actually see Milo and his supporters as evil, not as people who simply have a different point of view and have the same right to express it as anybody else.
Gee, one wonders what underlying mechanism might lead one to conclude the tactic is counter-productive.

Oh, right: the fact that it is wrong.

Milo and his supporters are evil. They are also people.

I see in color, I'm sorry you can't experience this vivid and nuanced world that I do. I'll try to keep my privilege in check.

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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:18 AM   #62
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As an extremely liberal person, I would like to openly state my disapproval of this violence. I don't care if it was a gang of angry students, agents provocateur, or the Clinton family reunion in masks. It's bad, and it shouldn't happen.

The worst part about it, other than the violence, is how utterly boring Milo is. I've never read anything from him that was slightly profound, or contained even a hint of insight*. The only reason we hear about him so much is because of these publicity squads the left keeps generating for him.

Also, for a good laugh, look up his various defenses of Christianity and Catholicism in particular.

* If I'm missing something, by all means, point it out.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:19 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
The better protest would've been to ignore Milo who is nothing more than an internet troll. Trolls hate being ignored more than anything.
And protests help sell Milo's books. Same tactic Coulter uses, the more outrageous, the more the books sell.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:20 AM   #64
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I just don't understand these violent protesters. Don't they understand it is a huge disservice to their cause?

It reminds me of something I read from an Israeli journalist about 20 years ago who said that if the Palestinians had chosen peaceful protest against Israel instead of war they would be in a much better situation with strong support for their cause and a lot of Jews backing them. With democratic governments and a free press, peaceful protest is always the best approach.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:23 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Suck it up, losers! We won. UCB has cancelled further appearances by the misogynist creep.

That's all that matters. Score one for the shout-em-down critics!! Woooooot!

Well, I'll try to shed some fake tears (ŕ la Chuck Schumer) when the Left loses all of their federal funds.

"Woooooot!"

Last edited by Slings and Arrows; 2nd February 2017 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:28 AM   #66
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The actions at UC Berkeley are typical of the Left wing agenda. They cannot survive when opposing views are expressed so they must silence anyone they don't agree with. These news stories are becoming more common now. I don't know if it's by accident or intentional but the Left is being exposed for what it truly is more and more lately. This is very good and will further shape our next elections.

There is no 1st Amendment allowed for you if you say things they don't like. That's not freedom. That's what they want for the Country. Sorry, everyone has the right to free speech in the US and you'll not change that.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:31 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
As an extremely liberal person, I would like to openly state my disapproval of this violence.
Which violence exactly?

Quote:
The only reason we hear about him so much is because of these publicity squads the left keeps generating for him.
You've got to give it to them, the tactics by Milo's crowd do work. First you shoot people who disagree with your views, and then when these people get angry and show up to thoroughly disrupt your gatherings you get sympathetic media attention.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:39 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by seayakin View Post
I just don't understand these violent protesters. Don't they understand it is a huge disservice to their cause?
Extremists don't care about what moderates think.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:40 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
There is no 1st Amendment allowed for you if you say things they don't like. That's not freedom. That's what they want for the Country. Sorry, everyone has the right to free speech in the US and you'll not change that.
Chris B.
They changed it here. The guy didn't speak.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:45 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
They changed it here. The guy didn't speak.
Another shining example of tolerance and inclusion..........

Berkeley may soon lose some funding. It would also be funny if he sued.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:51 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Another shining example of tolerance and inclusion..........

Berkeley may soon lose some funding. It would also be funny if he sued.
Chris B.
On what grounds?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:52 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
This just drives home the point, if it hasn't been obvious enough already: the real greatest threat to the US is the hysterical intolerance and dogmatism of the progressive left.
These voices you describe, are they male or female?
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Old 2nd February 2017, 07:58 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
On what grounds?
Hurt feelings.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:00 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
As an extremely liberal person, I would like to openly state my disapproval of this violence. I don't care if it was a gang of angry students, agents provocateur, or the Clinton family reunion in masks. It's bad, and it shouldn't happen.

The worst part about it, other than the violence, is how utterly boring Milo is. I've never read anything from him that was slightly profound, or contained even a hint of insight*. The only reason we hear about him so much is because of these publicity squads the left keeps generating for him.

Also, for a good laugh, look up his various defenses of Christianity and Catholicism in particular.

* If I'm missing something, by all means, point it out.

I agree that Milo is a boring and predictable troll.

But believe it or not, he is doing society a favour with his antics.

I've seen video of all sorts of speakers blocked and no-platformed at American universities. I'm not talking Nazis. I'm talking boring old conservatives, people with something positive to say about Israel, moderate critics of Third-wave feminism etc.
Their posters get torn down, their audiences blocked, their talks cancelled, the speakers have to come and go under police protection etc etc etc.

Imagine Noam Chomsky having to be escorted out the backdoor because conservative students holding the doors shut, locking in the audience and speaker. That is what happened to Ben Shapiro.

Meanwhile, Islamists and a whole host of left-winged speakers are welcome to come talk.

Milo just puts a big spotlight on this issue and brings to light the hypocrisy, and lack of debate. And with the "protesters" now resorting to violence and vandalism, the mask is definitely slipping.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:13 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Gee, one wonders what underlying mechanism might lead one to conclude the tactic is counter-productive.

Oh, right: the fact that it is wrong.
Huh? No, there are many things that are wrong which are not counterproductive (at least to one's immediate cause), and there are many things that are counterproductive which are not wrong. Killing somebody you know for sure to be a serial killer is not counterproductive, but it is wrong.

Quote:
Milo and his supporters are evil. They are also people.
If they truly are evil, then opposing them with force is morally justified. In my view, they are not evil (not even close). What makes them evil in your eyes?

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I see in color, I'm sorry you can't experience this vivid and nuanced world that I do. I'll try to keep my privilege in check.
Ironic.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:16 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
As an extremely liberal person, I would like to openly state my disapproval of this violence. I don't care if it was a gang of angry students, agents provocateur, or the Clinton family reunion in masks. It's bad, and it shouldn't happen.

The worst part about it, other than the violence, is how utterly boring Milo is. I've never read anything from him that was slightly profound, or contained even a hint of insight*. The only reason we hear about him so much is because of these publicity squads the left keeps generating for him.

Also, for a good laugh, look up his various defenses of Christianity and Catholicism in particular.

* If I'm missing something, by all means, point it out.
Milo is not boring. He's fascinating. He's also extremely articulate and insightful. Yes, he is intentionally provocative and offensive, and he exaggerates his insights to the point of being obscene, but he has explained some things that I hadn't understood before. I'm happy to start a Milo thread to discuss.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:21 AM   #77
Thermal
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Don't those idiots show up to pretty much every protest around there to trash things?
Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
..."the left" didn't start a riot.

Some people started a riot.
Just because the Bloc was protesting against a far right speaker, I don't think it means they are leftist. The circled A types are against the entire establishment, and the extreme right/fascist types provide a convenient target.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Now we just need to hit the third key and reboot.
Pretty sure that is the ultimate goal of a Bloc.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:23 AM   #78
marplots
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
Imagine Noam Chomsky having to be escorted out the backdoor because conservative students holding the doors shut, locking in the audience and speaker. That is what happened to Ben Shapiro.

Meanwhile, Islamists and a whole host of left-winged speakers are welcome to come talk.

Milo just puts a big spotlight on this issue and brings to light the hypocrisy, and lack of debate. And with the "protesters" now resorting to violence and vandalism, the mask is definitely slipping.
It's only hypocrisy if Noam Chomsky and Ben Shapiro are equivalent. So long as they are distinctly different in tone and content, the students are free to treat them differently.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:23 AM   #79
ChrisBFRPKY
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
On what grounds?
Violation of Constitutional rights.

I don't like speech like this guy spills either, but he has a right to speak it.
Chris B.
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Old 2nd February 2017, 08:24 AM   #80
ChrisBFRPKY
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http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...not-allow-free

Either Berkeley allows free speech or they lose their Federal funding.
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