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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 22nd February 2017, 07:34 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Didn't Trump trot out some doctor to claim Clinton had dementia? Or was that Fox News? I didn't find it with a quick search, but this is not the first time a physician has opined on the health of a public figure.
I think it was more of a social media fake news smear than an actual physician. But I could be wrong.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 07:35 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
(bold mine)

Wrong.

More than a few highly qualified professionals have weighed in to discount the nonsense seeing Trump in person would add to the diagnostic reliability.
Then they're wrong. While one could certainly reach preliminary diagnoses based on the information available via the media, a direct (or at least directed) interview would be necessary to reach a final diagnosis, and I'd be suspicious of a psychiatrist who was willing to sign off on a diagnosis without it. Axis II diagnoses can get contentious even with direct examinations.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 07:41 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Then they're wrong. While one could certainly reach preliminary diagnoses based on the information available via the media, a direct (or at least directed) interview would be necessary to reach a final diagnosis, and I'd be suspicious of a psychiatrist who was willing to sign off on a diagnosis without it. Axis II diagnoses can get contentious even with direct examinations.
(bold mine)

And you know this because? Let me guess, it's a commonly proclaimed meme.



Being as I do have some expertise here I've asked the question no one has answered. Just what test or interview questions do you think an in-person assessment would ask that would contribute to the reliability of the diagnosis?

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Old 22nd February 2017, 07:44 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
(bold mine)

And you know this because? Let me guess, it's a commonly proclaimed meme.

It's because I've worked with psychiatrists and psychologists in the past, and the subject came up. It could be a difference of professional opinion but it's what I've heard from board-certified professionals.

ETA: Maybe those I've worked with were incompetents in comparison with other psychiatric geniuses, but they certainly seemed like caring, qualified professionals to me.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 07:55 PM   #125
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Forget Article 25. At least on grounds of competency or ethics. Republicans have shown that they have no need for, nor respect for, either.

What we actually need is an amendment to the Constitution - A National Recall. As the Tea Party has been espousing, "Throw the Bums Out". Say, 25,000,000 signatures? Sounds do-able.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:00 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Being as I do have some expertise here I've asked the question no one has answered. Just what test or interview questions do you think an in-person assessment would ask that would contribute to the reliability of the diagnosis?
Mr. Trump, are you actually like this as a person in real life, or is this a fabricated persona for the purpose of making deals and making lots of money and those sorts of things? Does your wife and family think that you are a good nice guy, or that you completely lack empathy and kindness?
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:01 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
It's because I've worked with psychiatrists and psychologists in the past, and the subject came up. It could be a difference of professional opinion but it's what I've heard from board-certified professionals.

ETA: Maybe those I've worked with were incompetents in comparison with other psychiatric geniuses, but they certainly seemed like caring, qualified professionals to me.
You dodged the question and then added a bunch of BS that supports nothing.

Just what test or interview questions do you think an in-person assessment would ask that would contribute to the reliability of the diagnosis?

If you can tell me specifically what is needed in this in-person interview (key word: specific) you might have a case. But you can't. Trump's behavior is so widely viewable in the public sphere, there is nothing more an in-person visit could possibly add.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:03 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You dodged the question and then added a bunch of BS that supports nothing.

Just what test or interview questions do you think an in-person assessment would ask that would contribute to the reliability of the diagnosis?

If you can tell me specifically what is needed in this in-person interview (key word: specific) you might have a case. But you can't. Trump's behavior is so widely viewable in the public sphere, there is nothing more an in-person visit could possibly add.
Okay.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:03 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Forget Article 25. At least on grounds of competency or ethics. Republicans have shown that they have no need for, nor respect for, either.

What we actually need is an amendment to the Constitution - A National Recall. As the Tea Party has been espousing, "Throw the Bums Out". Say, 25,000,000 signatures? Sounds do-able.
A parliamentary system would be nice.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:06 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Mr. Trump, are you actually like this as a person in real life, or is this a fabricated persona for the purpose of making deals and making lots of money and those sorts of things? Does your wife and family think that you are a good nice guy, or that you completely lack empathy and kindness?
That argument is easily debunked by the fact much of Trump's disturbed behaviors have nothing to do with his con. In fact, they interfere.

If you cannot yet see it, you guys will just have to keep watching.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:18 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Okay.
Before you concede the point too readily, the guy responsible for the DSM criteria said that one should not try to diagnose from afar, and moreover that Trump did not appear to suffer from NPD.

Obviously, there's an asymmetry here. He's confident to give a negative diagnosis from afar, but not a positive one.

My source is his letter to the New York Times, but I can't link it easily at present.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:32 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Before you concede the point too readily, the guy responsible for the DSM criteria said that one should not try to diagnose from afar, and moreover that Trump did not appear to suffer from NPD.

Obviously, there's an asymmetry here. He's confident to give a negative diagnosis from afar, but not a positive one.

My source is his letter to the New York Times, but I can't link it easily at present.
One thing I'd point out is that there is no "guy responsible for the DSM criteria." The DSM is developed by many people based on scientific criteria that are the products of many more people, and every time a new one comes out there is inevitably disagreement about its contents.

In any case, there are some arguments I simply won't continue, for any number of reasons. In this case, it's because I agree that the person in question is likely of poor mental health, so why continue the tedious derail?
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Old 22nd February 2017, 08:41 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
One thing I'd point out is that there is no "guy responsible for the DSM criteria." The DSM is developed by many people based on scientific criteria that are the products of many more people, and every time a new one comes out there is inevitably disagreement about its contents.

In any case, there are some arguments I simply won't continue, for any number of reasons. In this case, it's because I agree that the person in question is likely of poor mental health, so why continue the tedious derail?
I agree that this is a derail, but the person to whom I refer claimed responsibility for the DSM criteria regarding NPD. Maybe it is a joint effort, but I suppose that he had last say, if we take him at his word.

I don't know whether Trump suffers from a personality disorder. He's surely an *******, one way or the other.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 10:22 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
....
Being as I do have some expertise here I've asked the question no one has answered. Just what test or interview questions do you think an in-person assessment would ask that would contribute to the reliability of the diagnosis?
I have no doubt that Trump is a dangerous loon. But I note that a formal psychiatric assessment would likely include a medical assessment for physical conditions that might affect behavior and thinking, including early dementia, and multiple personality tests like the MMPI and Rorschach, maybe even an IQ test, that would allow shrinks to compare him to a standardized reference base. Of course, chances of that happening are zero, unless his family decides to commit him.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 10:50 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Before you concede the point too readily, the guy responsible for the DSM criteria said that one should not try to diagnose from afar, and moreover that Trump did not appear to suffer from NPD.

Obviously, there's an asymmetry here. He's confident to give a negative diagnosis from afar, but not a positive one.

My source is his letter to the New York Times, but I can't link it easily at present.
Yeah, we've all heard his POV. The fact he's involved in the DSM process doesn't mean his POV is the final word. They way I looked at his statement on this, he seemed preoccupied with a single aspect, not denigrating mental illness with this taint.

There are other opinions by other professionals. And it's not akin to the Steve Project or the fact one can find a few experts with the view that support climate change deniers or evolution theory deniers.

This is about a line on a continuum that experts are drawing in different places.

Bottom line, it's irrelevant. What's relevant is how Trump's behavior is affecting his ability to do the job of POTUS.

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Old 22nd February 2017, 10:54 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I have no doubt that Trump is a dangerous loon. But I note that a formal psychiatric assessment would likely include a medical assessment for physical conditions that might affect behavior and thinking, including early dementia, and multiple personality tests like the MMPI and Rorschach, maybe even an IQ test, that would allow shrinks to compare him to a standardized reference base. Of course, chances of that happening are zero, unless his family decides to commit him.
Who is talking about committing Trump?

As far as I know you don't commit people with pathologic personality disorders. And the things you cite only go to underlying causes not to the diagnosis itself. An MMPI is not going to magically provide a different diagnosis.

See my above post, the diagnosis is not the key issue. What's relevant is how Trump's behavior is affecting his ability to do the job of POTUS.

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Old 22nd February 2017, 11:19 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Who is talking about committing Trump?

As far as I know you don't commit people with pathologic personality disorders. And the things you cite only go to underlying causes not to the diagnosis itself. An MMPI is not going to magically provide a different diagnosis.

See my above post, the diagnosis is not the key issue. What's relevant is how Trump's behavior is affecting his ability to do the job of POTUS.
I just meant that there's no way he's gonna submit to a formal psychiatric assessment unless his family finds a way to insist on it. Fat chance. And the thing about his "ability to do the job" is that there is no standard. For all we know Steve Bannon is running the country right now, restricting the information Trump gets and telling him what to sign. Woodrow Wilson was largely incapacitated near the end of his presidency, FDR was literally dying, and Reagan was showing signs of Alzheimer's. But they kept on being President.

If the Democrats had regained the Senate, they would be investigating aggressively and might find grounds to push for invoking the 25th amendment. But with Mitch McConnell in charge? Another fat chance.
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Old 22nd February 2017, 11:49 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
I agree. If the 25th is invoked I would think it's because Trump had a stroke or massive heart attack, which is a lot more plausible given Trump's physical condition and the effects of the office.
Highly unlikely given that is is the healthiest president ever....
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Old 22nd February 2017, 11:59 PM   #139
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The White House's current defense is that they reorganized the NSC by accident?

Quote:
While the decision to give Mr. Bannon a seat was a conscious one, Mr. Trump’s team did not intend to reduce the role of the intelligence director or Joint Chiefs chairman, officials said. In crafting their organization order, the officials said, Mr. Trump’s aides essentially cut and pasted language from Mr. Bush’s organization chart, substituting the national intelligence director for the C.I.A. director, who back then was the head of the nation’s spy agencies.

What Mr. Trump’s team did not realize, officials said, was that Mr. Obama’s organization chart made those two positions full members of the committee.

As a practical matter, Mr. Trump’s aides may not have intended a substantive change, but the political symbolism of elevating Mr. Bannon while seemingly demoting military and intelligence leaders was an immediate distraction.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 12:00 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Highly unlikely given that is is the healthiest president ever....
...healthiest mammal ever.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 12:39 AM   #141
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Any tweets yet on the latest terrorism in the UK?

Hopefully the UK will be included in the new EO, need to keep the USA safe from those coming from countries with known terrorist problems.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 01:55 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I'm not convinced that Clinton was the best candidate in the democrat field either. But by the time the parties got done, we were down to Trump and Clinton as the only choices for the election.
She was far and away the best qualified. Other than that, your statement is true, but it's nothing more than stating the obvious. It doesn't make any reference to:
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Is Trump a Democrat? No, so people weren't gullible - they picked the best available candidate.
People were gullible. Kasich and/or Cruz/Rubio/Bush offered conservative policies that would have satisfied most republicans. Trump was selling home-brewed fear, outrage and conspiracy theories during a primary process that has simply become theatre. A modern diversionary display amplified by the media. And just like at the colosseum, the people ate it all up.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 05:09 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
...healthiest mammal ever.
I think your bias is showing when you limit it to just mammals.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 05:31 AM   #144
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Trump's approval rating underwater in coastal elite bubble of South Carolina.

Quote:
Despite winning South Carolina by a double-digit margin in November's election, President Donald Trump is receiving the same lukewarm approval marks in the Palmetto State as the remainder of the country.

The New York billionaire has struggled in opinion polls during his first month in office. The White House has been hit with controversies over his proposal to limit travel from some Muslim-majority nations, contentious Cabinet conformation hearings, a major staff shakeup and his critical social media posts that he's carried over from the election.*

A new Winthrop University poll released Thursday found that South Carolinians give Trump a 44 percent approval rating, nearly identical to his latest average of national polls compiled by Real Clear Politics.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 06:04 AM   #145
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Quote:
The key to keeping Trump’s Twitter habit under control, according to six former campaign officials, is to ensure that his personal media consumption includes a steady stream of praise. And when no such praise was to be found, staff would turn to friendly outlets to drum some up — and make sure it made its way to Trump’s desk.

"If candidate Trump was upset about unfair coverage, it was productive to show him that he was getting fair coverage from outlets that were persuadable," said former communications director Sam Nunberg. "The same media that our base digests and prefers is going to be the base for his support. I would assume the president would like to see positive and preferential treatment from those outlets and that would help the operation overall."

Staff members had one advantage as they aimed to manage candidate Trump’s media diet: He rarely reads anything online, instead preferring print newspapers — especially his go-to, The New York Times — and reading material his staff brought to his desk. Indeed, his media consumption habits were on full display during his roller-coaster news conference this past Thursday, when he continually remarked on what the media would write “tomorrow,” even as print outlets’ websites already had posted stories about his remarks.

...

A former senior campaign official said Nunberg and his successor, former communications director Jason Miller, were particularly skilled at using alternative media like Breitbart, Washington Examiner, Infowars and the Daily Caller to show Trump positive coverage.

And once they got the stories published, campaign officials with large numbers of Twitter followers would tweet them out.

They would also go to media amplifiers like Fox News hosts and conservative columnists to encourage them to tweet out the story so that they could print out and show a two-page list of tweets that showed that they were steering the message. While Trump still couldn't contain his Twitter-rage with Machado, and ended up tweeting about a mystery sex-tape of the Hillary Clinton surrogate, aides say they dialed back even more posts.

"He saw there was activity, so he didn't feel like he had to respond," the former campaign official said. "He sends out these tweets when he feels like people aren't responding enough for him."
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...staffer-235263

So instead of telling him to behave and expecting him to do so you have to make sure that he doesn't get upset over his coverage in the media because then he will throw a childish tantrum. Disgraceful.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 06:05 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
A very Fine tuned machine indeed.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 06:15 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
A very Fine tuned machine indeed.
nowhere in the constitution does it say that the president must be able to read what he's signing.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 06:31 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Minor problem with that explanation was that the CIA director was not the head of the spy agencies. The CIA director was the head of the CIA.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 07:04 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...staffer-235263

So instead of telling him to behave and expecting him to do so you have to make sure that he doesn't get upset over his coverage in the media because then he will throw a childish tantrum. Disgraceful.
The 70 year old president has the emotional maturity of a kindergartner. Can't see how that will cause problems. No siree.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 07:48 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
faaaaake!!!
http://gawker.com/republican-voters-...tru-1760356596
https://www.facebook.com/scfordonaldtrump/
+1 843 636 8322 people like that page. that is many many people. big league.

Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/0...staffer-235263
So instead of telling him to behave and expecting him to do so you have to make sure that he doesn't get upset over his coverage in the media because then he will throw a childish tantrum. Disgraceful.
fakefakefake
https://www.axios.com/trump-101-what...210510272.html
Trump reads everything, probably more than anyone in existence, including the rarely read 12th article of the constitution.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 09:31 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
No. Nor do I believe I have implied such a thing. Rather I have said that Democrats should not plan to act the way that Republicans have acted. Planning to be purposefully obstructive in the future as revenge for this election is not a strategy that I support, and it's not a strategy that I think will be effective for Democrats in the long term.

FFS, Republicans have woven their own rope, draped it about their necks, climbed up on the platform, and tied that rope to the cross bar. Democrats shouldn't make plans to hang themselves as well, out of some misguided need for retaliation.

Why do you keep talking about revenge and retaliation

It's about successful strategies to attract votes. The Republicans have demonstrated what works.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 09:32 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Absolultey agree.

Democrats shouldn't blindly support bills out of a misguided sense of what constitutes collaboration. Nor should they blindly oppose bills of a misguided sense of party loyalty. They should support or oppose bills on the merit of those bills and their perception of the impact of them on the american people whom they serve. Republicans should do the same, but haven't been. Democrats shouldn't stoop to the same level. No american wins with that strategy.

Which means that no Americans are winning as things stand.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 09:36 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Why do you keep talking about revenge and retaliation

It's about successful strategies to attract votes. The Republicans have demonstrated what works.
Perhaps I'm hopelessly naive, but I'd rather lose with dignity than win by purely partisan measures.

In any case, the Democratic and Republican bases are different, and what works for one may not work for the other.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 09:37 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Right! What Republicans did the last eight years, and particularly after the Supreme Court opening, was a *********** shame. I don't want Democrats to follow suit. Better to be a decent person than an effective *******.

Is it?

I'd rather have an effective political party that isn't toadying to the bigots and racists and religious fundies than one that is in power because that's what they're doing.

There are more ways than one to behave decently. Letting the Republicans continue on their present course is not among them.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 09:37 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Which means that no Americans are winning as things stand.
What do you mean? I don't see the Democrats using the Republican tactics thus far.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 10:00 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Perhaps I'm hopelessly naive, but I'd rather lose with dignity than win by purely partisan measures.

I don't think there's much doubt about that.

It's the same sort of hopeless naivety that has let the Republicans get where they are today. Nice guys finish last in the race to political office. Democrats are the chumps who stood on principle.

The advantages of standing on principle are evident. Politics isn't a profession for the principled. Once they have some degree of power back, then they can behave with principles reflected in the legislation they support.

It is apparent that the process of getting there isn't the place for principles.

We have the Republicans to thank for that. Unfortunately they believe that the same absence of ethics applies to running the country as well as getting into office.

And they're chuckling the whole time at the hapless innocents who thought that principles were the way to get into office.




Quote:

In any case, the Democratic and Republican bases are different, and what works for one may not work for the other.
I don't know that they are all that much different. For one thing, it was a noticeable segment of the Democratic base that helped put Trump in office. Blue collar voters had been a useful percentage of dependable Democratic voters. Falling for the lies about "bringing jobs back" was sufficient to seduce enough of them away. Hillary telling the truth ... that the jobs aren't coming back, and the thing for the government to do was to help people learn the skills they needed to succeed in this reality was twisted into campaign lies by those unprincipled Republicans.

It worked. For the Republicans.

More than a few Dems were upset with Obama for being too principled about the way he reacted to the GOP and their obstructionist tactics. Those voters will not be too put off by Dems using the same strategies as the GOP. They'd be more likely to cheer.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 10:01 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
What do you mean? I don't see the Democrats using the Republican tactics thus far.

Exactly.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 10:02 AM   #158
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I saw a PBS NewsHour report last night about when Trump was campaigning in Erie Pa. He told the people there that their shutdown factories were "so sad" and "we're going to bring those jobs back, we're going to reopen those factories." I saw an earlier PBS report when he told people at a rally in Johnstown Pa. that their closed down steel mills were "so sad," that "we're going to bring those jobs back, we're going to reopen those mills."

PBS interviewed people in both places post-election who said they believed Trump's promises and voted for him on that basis. None of them seem to think, if the plants don't reopen, if the jobs don't come back, then that will mean Trump will have failed. Most said, "Well it will mean, at least he tried."

The ironic fact is, when I looked online I discovered, Erie Pa. is actually doing pretty well economically. They still have a lot of manufacturing jobs, but in smaller plants. Plastic manufacture is apparently thriving there.


This campaign and election are the damnedest turn of events I've ever witnessed. People vote for Trump because he made them promises that they don't even seem to expect him to keep. It was enough that he said it.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 10:06 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Perhaps I'm hopelessly naive, but I'd rather lose with dignity than win by purely partisan measures.

In any case, the Democratic and Republican bases are different, and what works for one may not work for the other.
But losing, whether or not it is with dignity, ensures that the only sane party cannot help or protect the American people from the Republican party. Sometimes, it is more honorable to make sure you have the power to block, say, Devos from becoming Education Secretary and screwing up education for all, than it is to refuse to do what it takes to win and allow the Republicans to dismantle public education, gut Social Security, etc.
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Old 23rd February 2017, 10:10 AM   #160
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Regarding Trump's statement that the media is "the enemy of the people" ...

Originally Posted by William McRaven, retired four-star admiral
This sentiment may be the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime.
Starry-eyed, butthurt liberals with their hysterical ways. Right?

Oops, correct link here.
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