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Old 28th February 2017, 07:10 AM   #161
The Big Dog
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Curious how the anti-theists are so proud of proselytizing their belief system... which is of course the same things they bitterly complain that theists do.
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Old 28th February 2017, 07:16 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious how the anti-theists are so proud of proselytizing their belief system... which is of course the same things they bitterly complain that theists do.
Curious how you think this statement of yours reflects reality.

You know better; a-theism is not a "belief system".
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Old 28th February 2017, 08:59 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It's juvenile and glib. Also, it is insulting towards an entity that many people believe exist, believe deserves respect, and feel very strongly about. Even if you believe that this entity is fictional (which you do, obviously), the use of terms like "sky daddy" or "delusional" is highly disrespectful of the deeply-held beliefs of those who do not, and is thereby disrespectful of them.

You cannot consistently claim that you hate theism but love theists when you use such language. You can't consistently claim that you attack only the beliefs when doing so directly insults the believers.

Like I said, this is why most antitheist arguments get absolutely nowhere with believers. Like The Big Dog here in this thread, these tactics give them an excuse to dismiss everything you say out of hand. Have you ever wondered why there are so few theists who regularly post here? This is why. They see this sort of thing and say to themselves "I see no reason to subject myself to this kind of treatment, I'm off." And the antitheists bask in the smug glow of having driven off another loser.

These are not the actions of someone who is interested in a genuine dialogue. These are not the actions of someone who is interested in coming to an understanding of the other position. These are the actions of a bully.

And they give the rest of us atheists an undeserved bad rep.
If you're really paying attention you'd note that I don't use that term even though I believe it to be 100 percent accurate. Delusional, yes as I don't know how to describe seeing or believing in something that there isn't a shred of credible evidence for.

My experience is it matters little to many believers how you point out that their belief is based on a fantasy they are going to be 'offended'. If you think walking on eggshells and being careful of their overly sensitive feelings is more persuasive I'm going to disagree. In fact I'm very much convinced that treating such absurd ideas with any respect is counterproductive.

Ridiculous ideas should be ridiculed. That doesn't mean I feel anything towards the person holding them. Pointing out the absurdity and the contradictions is effective. Maybe not to the people heavily vested in those absurdities, but the people in the bleachers.
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Old 28th February 2017, 09:03 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Your own words, sir!
Repeating what has been said before is NOT me assuming others belefs.
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Old 28th February 2017, 09:41 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious how the anti-theists are so proud of proselytizing their belief system... which is of course the same things they bitterly complain that theists do.
Sorry, not a belief, and not a system. Try again.
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Old 28th February 2017, 09:48 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Sorry, not a belief, and not a system. Try again.
Curious how one can claim that their beliefs about the existence of god are not a belief system, despite others openly bragging about proselytizing it.
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Old 28th February 2017, 09:53 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious how one can claim that their beliefs about the existence of god are not a belief system, despite others openly bragging about proselytizing it.
You know better. Atheism (look at the word: a-theism) is NOT a belief system, no matter how often you try to claim it so.

Don't allow yourself to adopt the petty technique of pretending that "not believing that 'god' does exist" is the same as "believing that 'god' does not exist".

Further, you appear to be carelessly misusing the term, "proselytizing"...
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:01 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious how the anti-theists are so proud of proselytizing their belief system... which is of course the same things they bitterly complain that theists do.
Nearly 18,000 posts on this forum, many of which are in the religion section, and you can still think that! Incredible.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:26 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious how one can claim that their beliefs about the existence of god are not a belief system, despite others openly bragging about proselytizing it.
Sorry Big Dog, 'not' believing in a god is not a belief system. Neither is not believing in Big Foot, the Loch Ness monster or that Elvis is still alive.

Asking people to think and see the world for what it is is not proselytizing.

Atheists don't build churches. We don't knock on your door to ask if you've heard the good news and we don't pass the collection plate around or ask anyone to tithe. There is no ceremony where one eats cheese and crackers or grape juice. You can be a Democrat, Republican or Independent. You can be gay, straight or unsure. You can be a hedonist or celibate. No one ever gets excommunicated or shunned. The only thing that is required to be an atheist is that one is unconvinced of any deity claim
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:27 AM   #170
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anti-theism, anti-religion is absolutely a belief system, that causes people to brag about their "the motivation of trying to get theists to toss belief,' and brag about their so-called successes in doing so.

pros·e·lyt·ize
ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīz/
verb: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

Hmmm, seems like it is on all fours
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:31 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Sorry Big Dog, 'not' believing in a god is not a belief system. Neither is not believing in Big Foot, the Loch Ness monster or that Elvis is still alive.

Asking people to think and see the world for what it is is not proselytizing.

Atheists don't build churches. We don't knock on your door to ask if you've heard the good news and we don't pass the collection plate around or ask anyone to tithe. There is no ceremony where one eats cheese and crackers or grape juice. You can be a Democrat, Republican or Independent. You can be gay, straight or unsure. You can be a hedonist or celibate. No one ever gets excommunicated or shunned. The only thing that is required to be an atheist is that one is unconvinced of any deity claim
Uh huh. say, if anyone wants to donate to the American Atheists, they can find information here:

https://www.atheists. org /donate/tax-information

They give out information about atheism, which i was told was not a belief or something, I dunno I read it on the iSkep, so it is totes legit.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:36 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
anti-theism, anti-religion is absolutely a belief system, that causes people to brag about their "the motivation of trying to get theists to toss belief,' and brag about their so-called successes in doing so.

pros·e·lyt·ize
ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīz/
verb: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

Hmmm, seems like it is on all fours
Well then, ...

If you are so very sure of your facts, then you should be able to point out some cases which clearly show this anti-theism proselytism and/or anti-religion anti-theism proselytism that you appear to be so very terribly concerned about.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:39 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Well then, ...

If you are so very sure of your facts, then you should be able to point out some cases which clearly show this anti-theism proselytism and/or ant-religion anti-theism proselytism that you appear to be so very terribly about.
You mean other than the guys in this thread talking about their efforts?

okey dokey:

Quote:
Appeared in all forms of media to defend our positions and criticisms of religion and mythology
Held atheist conventions and gatherings throughout the United States, including "Atheist Pride" marches in state capitals
Demonstrated and picketed throughout the country on behalf of atheist rights and state/church separation
Published hundreds of books about atheism, criticism of religion, and state/church separation
https://www.atheists.org/about-us

Don't you dare call it a belief, tho, or the "skeptics"'ll getcha!
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:42 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You mean other than the guys in this thread talking about their efforts?

okey dokey:



https://www.atheists.org/about-us

Don't you dare call it a belief, tho, or the "skeptics"'ll getcha!
So where is the anti-theism proselytism and/or anti-religion proselytism that you appear to be so very terribly concerned about?
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:43 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Not sure I am with you on the point of "how atheism works" but I am with you on the motivation of trying to get theists to toss belief. I've had some success in the past of doing this, although to be honest the subjects were tethering on the edge at the time.
Oh, to be clear, I have lost track at this point of how often theists claim that atheism is a belief system. Maybe I am getting old and cynical, but I have insufficient time remaining to engage in that baloney.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:46 AM   #176
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And if the beliefs of the Atheists Association are not your cup of tea, one can always join the spittle soaked fanatics at the Freedom From Religion Foundation and "our critical work to promote nontheism."

you'll forgive me if I don't link there tho because some people think it is a hate site.

You can donate there to.

I didn't see whether they were offering cheese and crackers.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:49 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Are your serious?

Don't the Catholics chant "Oh forgive me father for I have sinned" as they enter the confessional? Isn't the central idea of Christianity that we are miserable sinners, (tainted with original sin), as we are born?
WTF? Of course they do. "mea culpa, mea maxima culpa" is central to catholic doctrine and practice.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:51 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
And if the beliefs of the Atheists Association are not your cup of tea, one can always join the spittle soaked fanatics at the Freedom From Religion Foundation and "our critical work to promote nontheism."

you'll forgive me if I don't link there tho because some people think it is a hate site.

You can donate there to.

I didn't see whether they were offering cheese and crackers.
Oh wait, here is a whole conference devoted to the "not a belief system'

https://www.atheists.org/eclipse

Betcha they serve cheese and crackers there.

Now, make sure you don't call it a belief system, I did once but i think i got away with it.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:55 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
And if the beliefs of the Atheists Association are not your cup of tea, one can always join the spittle soaked fanatics at the Freedom From Religion Foundation and "our critical work to promote nontheism."

you'll forgive me if I don't link there tho because some people think it is a hate site.

You can donate there to.

I didn't see whether they were offering cheese and crackers.
Sorry. Never heard of either. "you'll" should be capitalised, "tho" is actually spelled "though", "to" is actually spelled "too".

In any event, your citations are deeply uninteresting to this atheist.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:56 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Uh huh. say, if anyone wants to donate to the American Atheists, they can find information here:

https://www.atheists. org /donate/tax-information

They give out information about atheism, which i was told was not a belief or something, I dunno I read it on the iSkep, so it is totes legit.
I never said that some atheists don't seek donations, but as a whole we don't. You ever hear about the atheists passing out leaflets? They're blank. We're atheists.
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:57 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh wait, here is a whole conference devoted to the "not a belief system'

https://www.atheists.org/eclipse

Betcha they serve cheese and crackers there.

Now, make sure you don't call it a belief system, I did once but i think i got away with it.
If you are quite done quoting you own postings, then perhaps you can you tell us just where is the anti-theism proselytism and/or anti-religion proselytism that you are supposedly to be so very terribly concerned about?
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:58 AM   #182
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Say, here is a whole society down under, mate:

http://atheistfoundation.org.au/

Nice that they can get to together and share their belief, while having a shrimp on the barbie!
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Old 28th February 2017, 10:59 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
anti-theism, anti-religion is absolutely a belief system, that causes people to brag about their "the motivation of trying to get theists to toss belief,' and brag about their so-called successes in doing so.

pros·e·lyt·ize
ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīz/
verb: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

Hmmm, seems like it is on all fours
Not a belief is not a belief. It's a tauntology but it works.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:00 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I never said that some atheists don't seek donations, but as a whole we don't. You ever hear about the atheists passing out leaflets? They're blank. We're atheists.
Weird, you seem to speak for all atheists except when you are not, huh?

WHO WANTS TO SEE SOME BROCHURES?

https://ffrf.org/publications/brochures/

I heard they were blank, I read it on iSkep.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:03 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, here is a whole society down under, mate:

http://atheistfoundation.org.au/

Nice that they can get to together and share their belief, while having a shrimp on the barbie!
Show me a single tenet of atheism beyond disbelief. That's why it is not a belief system. One can dis-believe in a god claim WITHOUT believing there is not a God.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:06 AM   #186
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Can you imagine if an atheist said, "I believe there is no God"?

they'd be drummed right out of the .... quick google... richard dawkins foundation, another non-association to promote their "non-beliefs."
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:09 AM   #187
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Say, how many Atheists organizations do you want cites to?

I got lots more all that contradict the claim that Atheism is not a belief system.

so many more....
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:18 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, how many Atheists organizations do you want cites to?

I got lots more all that contradict the claim that Atheism is not a belief system.

so many more....
You don't have a one. That there are groups that help people to deal with the theistic world doesn't make a disbelief a belief. Try as you might you fail at this suggestion. Exactly as you would in proving a god.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:19 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, how many Atheists organizations do you want cites to?

I got lots more all that contradict the claim that Atheism is not a belief system.

so many more....
As for me, I would just like to see some evidence of this alleged anti-theism proselytism and/or anti-religion proselytism that you are currently bitching about.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:31 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You don't have a one. That there are groups that help people to deal with the theistic world doesn't make a disbelief a belief. Try as you might you fail at this suggestion. Exactly as you would in proving a god.
I about choked on my lunch when I read that.

the Freedom From Religion Foundation specifically states that it is "our critical work to promote nontheism."

And you are denying that?

You gave a list of things you claims atheists don't do, most of which they do, as proven.

Oh well, no one ever said it was going to be easy to shake people from their long held belief in their orthodoxy despite the evidence piled up before them.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:36 AM   #191
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Say you are all aware of the anti-theism proselytism and anti-religion proselytism billboard campaigns.

https://www.atheists.org/activism/billboards

now you are, people declaring they are unimpressed in 3...2...1...
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:37 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Curious how the anti-theists are so proud of proselytizing their belief system... which is of course the same things they bitterly complain that theists do.
I have no belief system, nor am I aware of any atheist belief system. What on earth is an atheist belief or system of beliefs?
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:39 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
anti-theism, anti-religion is absolutely a belief system, that causes people to brag about their "the motivation of trying to get theists to toss belief,' and brag about their so-called successes in doing so.

pros·e·lyt·ize
ˈpräs(ə)ləˌtīz/
verb: convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

Hmmm, seems like it is on all fours
You continue to use conflation, and careless definition, and evasion, and misstatement.

Is it, in fact, your...odd...(and unsupportable) perception that most atheists (or even many atheists--I'd even be interested in you conclusively demonstrating one, here on the ISF) try to get believers to give up on their superstitions? I, for one, am happy if I can get believers to quit trying to enforce their superstitions upon me.

But seriously--please provide an example, here on the forum, of the "bragging" about which you here complain.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:41 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You mean other than the guys in this thread talking about their efforts?

okey dokey:

https://www.atheists.org/about-us

Don't you dare call it a belief, tho, or the "skeptics"'ll getcha!
Are you truly claiming that rights are a zero-sum game?

Are you actually claiming that enforcing the "wall around the garden" is proselytizing?

You are, in fact, using the words incorrectly...
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:45 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say you are all aware of the anti-theism proselytism and anti-religion proselytism billboard campaigns.

https://www.atheists.org/activism/billboards

now you are, people declaring they are unimpressed in 3...2...1...
That is highlighting extreme theist claims, not atheist claims in any way.

Do you really claim or agree that god speaks through george bush?
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:47 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Not sure I am with you on the point of "how atheism works" but I am with you on the motivation of trying to get theists to toss belief. I've had some success in the past of doing this, although to be honest the subjects were tethering on the edge at the time.
Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
You continue to use conflation, and careless definition, and evasion, and misstatement.

Is it, in fact, your...odd...(and unsupportable) perception that most atheists (or even many atheists--I'd even be interested in you conclusively demonstrating one, here on the ISF) try to get believers to give up on their superstitions? I, for one, am happy if I can get believers to quit trying to enforce their superstitions upon me.

But seriously--please provide an example, here on the forum, of the "bragging" about which you here complain.
But seriously, there you are.
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:54 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
But seriously, there you are.
So where is anti-theism proselytism and/or anti-religion proselytism that you are currently bitching about?
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Old 28th February 2017, 11:59 AM   #198
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The blatant denial of the obvious here is sad, but very amusing too!

Golly, where is that stuff that has been repeatedly posted by TBD repeatedly?.

I guess Denial is one of the sacramentals of the Association of the Non-believers, huh?

Fantastic.
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Old 28th February 2017, 12:02 PM   #199
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Wow, because there is an organization, it's automatically a belief system? I didn't know that's how it works. Apparently, the Girl Scouts of America is a belief system? And the National Street Rod Association? How about the Audobon Society? Or could it be that it takes more than a club of people who share a common interest to make a belief system?
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Old 28th February 2017, 12:04 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
But seriously, there you are.
You have yet to even approach demonstrating the "proselytization" about which you complain. (Remember, you made the accusation...)

Are you, in fact, accusing me, personally, of "proselytizing"?

I will accept your public apology.
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