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Old 13th March 2017, 10:59 PM   #1
arthwollipot
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Where are all the nice Christians?

Here's one:

The Church of Not Being Horrible

Quote:
I’m tired.

I’m tired of professed Christians preaching a Jesus that they seem to have no interest at all in emulating; of religious people being a loud, loveless noise in the world while claiming to speak for a God who is supposedly love.

I know the world is tired of such people.

I’m fairly certain that God is too.
Personally, I know a lot more Christians who are not horrible people than I know Christians who are. Yes, this is merely my own experience.

The Christians I know support marriage equality, social justice, and accountability for child abusers. I know Christians who marched in the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras a couple of weeks ago.

I know it's easy to pay attention to the horrible Christians. And don't get me wrong - as the author linked above states, "being horrible seems to be trending these days" and it is important to be aware of this and to work against the horribleness. But you should also be aware that there are also Christians who aren't horrible, are aware that horrible Christians exist, and wish that they didn't. There are Christians actively trying to make the church less horrible.

By focusing on the horrible Christians, we run the risk of ignoring or forgetting about the Christians who aren't horrible, who can be valuable allies in our fight against horribleness.

It's their church, and it's not going to go away any time soon. Shouldn't we be helping them make it less horrible if we can?
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Old 14th March 2017, 01:48 AM   #2
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The non horrible christian are mostly mute. The horrible one are loud. Same reason why it is often pointed out Moslem fanatic Islamist are loud but they are not the majority.

The problem is, they are also the most politically active, so it is nigh impossible to not fight them without side effect from the silent majority.
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Old 14th March 2017, 02:05 AM   #3
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Mormons. And I'm not being facetious there.

While I find a lot of the core Mormon beliefs... questionable to say the least and the Mormon Church as an entity is untrustworthy on an individual, day to day, personal level Mormons in general are some of the most aggressively nice people you'll ever meet.
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Old 14th March 2017, 02:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Mormons. And I'm not being facetious there.

While I find a lot of the core Mormon beliefs... questionable to say the least and the Mormon Church as an entity is untrustworthy on an individual, day to day, personal level Mormons in general are some of the most aggressively nice people you'll ever meet.
This has been my experience also.
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Old 14th March 2017, 03:55 AM   #5
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Christianity is becoming out of date. Most active Christians I know (|churchgoers and volunteers) have parents who were vicars/pastors, some for several generations.

The mormons I have encountered in London have been handsome very well-dressed young Americans, who invited me to their meetings, and I was quite tempted as they were so nice!

I could never give up tea and coffee.
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Old 14th March 2017, 04:22 AM   #6
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You can get horrible people who are religious, horrible people who are not. You can get nice people who are religious, nice people who are not. So it would seem, on this evidence plus what we continue to receive, that the religiosity of a person is no guide whatever to their "niceness". They are just not reliably linked attributes.
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Old 14th March 2017, 06:37 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Mormons. And I'm not being facetious there.

While I find a lot of the core Mormon beliefs... questionable to say the least and the Mormon Church as an entity is untrustworthy on an individual, day to day, personal level Mormons in general are some of the most aggressively nice people you'll ever meet.
This appears true until you find out how they treat their ex-Mormon family members.
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Old 14th March 2017, 06:47 AM   #8
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For me, the trick is "to be" the example, for which I look in others.
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Old 14th March 2017, 09:10 AM   #9
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I used to be a nice Christian. Now I'm a nice Skeptic.
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Old 14th March 2017, 09:23 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
It's their church, and it's not going to go away any time soon. Shouldn't we be helping them make it less horrible if we can?

The only really tough thing about this is approach, is that quite a few nice Christians feel that issues within the church are internal issues, and resent outside help, well-meaning though it may be. They would much rather we focus on being nice Muslims/Jews/atheists/Buddhists/whatevers than sticking our nose into what they consider to be family matters, so to speak.

Of course, if a nice Christian solicits my help on pretty much any issue, I am willing to see how we can work together, but I draw the line at insisting on helping where none may be desired.
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Old 14th March 2017, 05:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Hokulele View Post
The only really tough thing about this is approach, is that quite a few nice Christians feel that issues within the church are internal issues, and resent outside help, well-meaning though it may be. They would much rather we focus on being nice Muslims/Jews/atheists/Buddhists/whatevers than sticking our nose into what they consider to be family matters, so to speak.

Of course, if a nice Christian solicits my help on pretty much any issue, I am willing to see how we can work together, but I draw the line at insisting on helping where none may be desired.
That is a very good point, and I agree.
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Old 14th March 2017, 05:28 PM   #12
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Where are all the nice Christians?

EVERYWHERE, obviously.

People who don't think exactly like this guy are "horrible."

The First Universal Church of Check your Privilege.
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Old 14th March 2017, 06:05 PM   #13
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I see you didn't actually read the article. Or, if you did, you didn't understand it. He never called "people who don't think exactly like" him horrible. He called horrible people horrible.
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Old 14th March 2017, 06:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I see you didn't actually read the article. Or, if you did, you didn't understand it. He never called "people who don't think exactly like" him horrible. He called horrible people horrible.
Oh in that case you will want to change your headline.

"He called horrible people horrible." Damn, Smfh.

Remember when this was a site for critical thinking?
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Old 14th March 2017, 06:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh in that case you will want to change your headline.

"He called horrible people horrible." Damn, Smfh.

Remember when this was a site for critical thinking?
Remember when reading was a thing?

If you are a loud, loveless noise in the world while claiming to speak for a God who is supposedly love, then you might be one of the horrible people the author is referring to.

Are you one of those people?
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Old 14th March 2017, 07:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Remember when reading was a thing?

If you are a loud, loveless noise in the world while claiming to speak for a God who is supposedly love, then you might be one of the horrible people the author is referring to.

Are you one of those people?
Oh hell yeah, there is no possible way in hell that the author of that piece you linked would not instantly judge me as horrible.

Which is obviously why that glurge is garbage.

Oh wait, I forgot to check my privilege.
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Old 14th March 2017, 09:11 PM   #17
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On this Forum I consider Meadmaker to be a self-identified Christian who I feel is very nice, even though I often disagree with him.
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Old 14th March 2017, 09:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh hell yeah, there is no possible way in hell that the author of that piece you linked would not instantly judge me as horrible.

Which is obviously why that glurge is garbage.

Oh wait, I forgot to check my privilege.
Why are you so certain that you meet the negative criteria cited? Do you really see yourself in these terms and support the positions cited in that piece?

Strange. The quoted piece is meant to list unChristian distortions of Christanity. Are you claiming that they are true Christian actions and viewpoints?

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Old 14th March 2017, 11:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
The non horrible christian are mostly mute. The horrible one are loud. Same reason why it is often pointed out Moslem fanatic Islamist are loud but they are not the majority.

The problem is, they are also the most politically active, so it is nigh impossible to not fight them without side effect from the silent majority.
I'd disagree a little. Attention goes more to things that attract attention, and, like the media seems to know well, things that cause controversy and alarm are much more profitable to show. One horrible voice will frequently overpower 100, just because of the attention it attracts, just about no matter how "loudly" the 100 are talking. In this case, of course, the ratio seems to be very notably less than that, though.
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Old 14th March 2017, 11:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
On this Forum I consider Meadmaker to be a self-identified Christian who I feel is very nice, even though I often disagree with him.
RedBaronFarms has seemed like a rather good one, too.
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Old 14th March 2017, 11:05 PM   #21
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And DarthRotor, although he rarely posts these days. He also has good taste in bacon.
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Old 14th March 2017, 11:47 PM   #22
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Just scanning through "The Church of Not Being Horrible" link I could not see what god, if there is one, they are connected to. If it is the God of Abraham they have some work to do to separate from the horribleness.
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Old 15th March 2017, 04:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh hell yeah, there is no possible way in hell that the author of that piece you linked would not instantly judge me as horrible.

Which is obviously why that glurge is garbage.

Oh wait, I forgot to check my privilege.

I don't think this church will blend well with your Christianity The Big Dog.

Quote:
The Church of Not Being Horrible will gather every week to celebrate the inherent goodness of people. We’ll share stories of the ways we succeeded in being less than horrible to our families, coworkers, and strangers, and we’ll challenge ourselves to be even less horrible in the coming week. We’ll do this faithfully, repeatedly, and passionately, and hopefully we’ll begin to watch the world around us gradually become less angry, less bitter, less painful—less horrible.
This is in direct contradiction of the miserable sinner idea of Christianity.
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Old 15th March 2017, 05:40 PM   #24
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I gather this is a US thing. In the UK we have next to no horrible Christians (aside from correlation) and those that do exist don't have any significant voice. I read somewhere that there are about 150,000 creationists in the UK, and a few thousand children in fundamentalist Christian education. I live amongst rural communities with a relatively high church attendance (I live next to a church) and I've never once heard religion mentioned, yet alone nasty religion.
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Old 15th March 2017, 06:04 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh in that case you will want to change your headline.

"He called horrible people horrible." Damn, Smfh.

Remember when this was a site for critical thinking?
Still is, just have problems with the science tools and the republickers. Both so pointless and useless!!!!!!!
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Old 15th March 2017, 11:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh hell yeah, there is no possible way in hell that the author of that piece you linked would not instantly judge me as horrible.

Which is obviously why that glurge is garbage.

Oh wait, I forgot to check my privilege.
Persecution complex much?
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Old 16th March 2017, 12:02 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I gather this is a US thing. In the UK we have next to no horrible Christians (aside from correlation) and those that do exist don't have any significant voice. I read somewhere that there are about 150,000 creationists in the UK, and a few thousand children in fundamentalist Christian education. I live amongst rural communities with a relatively high church attendance (I live next to a church) and I've never once heard religion mentioned, yet alone nasty religion.
One of the things I've learned in talking about religion with other countries is hard how it is to get across how religion works and how much of a factor despite having zero official power it is in the states.

I figured out a long time ago that that America is weird in that religion has massive influence while have zero power. Like in England you guys have an official country backed church, the Church of England, something that would never even be suggest in America, but the Church of England doesn't seem to have any actual real world influence.

In American we have this really weird, really hard to explain thing just called the "Religious Right" a vague, non-organized collection of various major religious groups and factions, all vaguely conservative, none of which get along all that well with each other but all are united against an even vaguer, even less defined "enemy" of liberals, atheist, feminists and other assorted boogeymen and I cannot stress how much power and influence it has in policy making despite not having any authority.

It's hard to explain. Like in England if the Church of England, which does have an official status, trying to stop the government from doing something... it doesn't seem to work. In America we might as well give the Southern Baptist and American Catholics seats in the House and Senate.
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Old 16th March 2017, 05:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
One of the things I've learned in talking about religion with other countries is hard how it is to get across how religion works and how much of a factor despite having zero official power it is in the states.

I figured out a long time ago that that America is weird in that religion has massive influence while have zero power. Like in England you guys have an official country backed church, the Church of England, something that would never even be suggest in America, but the Church of England doesn't seem to have any actual real world influence.

In American we have this really weird, really hard to explain thing just called the "Religious Right" a vague, non-organized collection of various major religious groups and factions, all vaguely conservative, none of which get along all that well with each other but all are united against an even vaguer, even less defined "enemy" of liberals, atheist, feminists and other assorted boogeymen and I cannot stress how much power and influence it has in policy making despite not having any authority.

It's hard to explain. Like in England if the Church of England, which does have an official status, trying to stop the government from doing something... it doesn't seem to work. In America we might as well give the Southern Baptist and American Catholics seats in the House and Senate.
Many years ago when I first heard Americans talk about the scourge and influence of Christianity and the associated political arms I had no idea what they were talking about. We were talking at cross (no pun intended) purposes - they insisted religion was a major political force, albeit indirectly, and I insisted that it was not. Christianity is a largely personal thing over here. Hell, I went to a Church of England school and aside from a prayer at morning assembly and a trip to church around Christmas time, there was no mention of religion let alone any influence on our education.

Occasionally some archbishop will speak out on a subject and immediately get told to shut up and keep out of politics. Nobody takes much notice. We have the archaic system whereby 20-odd bishops have automatic seats in the House of Lords but those who haven't already slipped into senility are mostly liberal and don't have any influence anyway, aside from in an advisory role.

So yes, a very different state of affairs.
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Old 16th March 2017, 06:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Remember when reading was a thing?

If you are a loud, loveless noise in the world while claiming to speak for a God who is supposedly love, then you might be one of the horrible people the author is referring to.

Are you one of those people?
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh hell yeah, there is no possible way in hell that the author of that piece you linked would not instantly judge me as horrible.

Which is obviously why that glurge is garbage.

Oh wait, I forgot to check my privilege.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Persecution complex much?
Remind to ignore your dishonest questions from here on in.
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Old 16th March 2017, 06:17 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
We have the archaic system whereby 20-odd bishops have automatic seats in the House of Lords but those who haven't already slipped into senility are mostly liberal and don't have any influence anyway, aside from in an advisory role.
And it's worth pointing out that, in the context of the C of E, "liberal" means "probably doesn't even believe in God." I seem to recall Sir Humphrey saying something along those lines in Yes, Minister.

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Old 16th March 2017, 06:30 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The First Universal Church of Check your Privilege.
Being not horrible is a privilege few Christians have access to? I think not.

Being not horrible has little to do with privilege but much to do with standing up for what is right. Many Christians have stood up for what is right, even when other Christians would have preferred they didn't.

More importantly, being not horrible has more to do with not following leaders who preach hatred. Do not be deceived by the comforts of shunning those who are not like you, history has shown it is the easiest place for the devil to find a foothold.
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Old 16th March 2017, 06:34 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
And it's worth pointing out that, in the context of the C of E, "liberal" means "probably doesn't even believe in God." I seem to recall Sir Humphrey saying something along those lines in Yes, Minister.

Dave
Yeah, it isn't a huge leap from liberal Episcopalian* to agnostic. Just a few years of Catholic school will do the trick, in most cases.


*Technically, Church of Scotland, IIRC, because the CoE cut ties with the church in the colonies after the revolution. But, it has been some time since I cared about such history, so I'm sure I've cocked it up a bit.
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Old 16th March 2017, 04:15 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yeah, it isn't a huge leap from liberal Episcopalian* to agnostic. Just a few years of Catholic school will do the trick, in most cases.


*Technically, Church of Scotland, IIRC, because the CoE cut ties with the church in the colonies after the revolution. But, it has been some time since I cared about such history, so I'm sure I've cocked it up a bit.
Great post, you killed the forum!
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Old 16th March 2017, 04:37 PM   #34
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Being not horrible is a privilege few Christians have access to? I think not.

Being not horrible has little to do with privilege but much to do with standing up for what is right. Many Christians have stood up for what is right, even when other Christians would have preferred they didn't.

More importantly, being not horrible has more to do with not following leaders who preach hatred. Do not be deceived by the comforts of shunning those who are not like you, history has shown it is the easiest place for the devil to find a foothold.
Well it is obvious that you did not read the *********** article.
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Old 16th March 2017, 06:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Remind to ignore your dishonest questions from here on in.
Did you just call me a liar? Please indicate what question you believe is dishonest.
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Old 16th March 2017, 07:22 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Did you just call me a liar? Please indicate what question you believe is dishonest.
Obviously not. Your post was dishonest as hell though. Don't ask a question and then post "persecution complex" when I honestly answer it.
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Old 16th March 2017, 08:07 PM   #37
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Obviously not. Your post was dishonest as hell though. Don't ask a question and then post "persecution complex" when I honestly answer it.
Please elaborate on how I have been "dishonest". I have not lied about a single thing in this thread. Exactly what in my post was "dishonest as hell"? Please quote.
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Old 17th March 2017, 06:46 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Remind to ignore your dishonest questions from here on in.
Nothing dishonest in the questions.
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Old 17th March 2017, 06:54 AM   #39
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By the by, the biggest problem with much xtianity is the persecution complex that so many US xtians have - especially though not exclusively - midwest, southern and some west. Apparently they cannot stand the fact that nobody needs religion except as a crutch and your religion should guide YOUR life, not anyone else's*!!!!!!!



*Where anyone else's means anyone not actively and freely choosing your religion/to live with your religion's predjudices. preferences and beliefs.
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Old 17th March 2017, 06:59 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Yeah, it isn't a huge leap from liberal Episcopalian* to agnostic. Just a few years of Catholic school will do the trick, in most cases.


*Technically, Church of Scotland, IIRC, because the CoE cut ties with the church in the colonies after the revolution. But, it has been some time since I cared about such history, so I'm sure I've cocked it up a bit.
I live in Aberdeen. The first Episcopal Bishop in the colonies following the successful War of Independence was created about 200 yards from where I am standing now. The Archbishop of Canterbury had refused him recognition, but the Scottish Episcopal Church had the independence and the right to do it. All of which said this was NOT the Church of Scotland, which was and is Presbyterian. We don't even get Bishops in the House of Lords. Another reason for indyref2
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