It's All Your Fault You Evil Secularists - Page 2

8enotto · 2nd January 2021, 11:07 PM

Purpose is something many people seem to need to know. I just was asked about this last week actually.

Not a ' what drives you on day after day ' purpose but ' why did god ' based question as if we are here to do some work of god.
He is almighty and omnipresent, why the hell would he need a worm like me to do his work, much less even exist?
Just to keep me busy?

His mind too needed that mission from god otherwise life is aimlessly drifting until a funeral.
I tried to explain it isn't aimless drifting as I made decisions to end up wherever I am doing whatever I do. I get to choose what is important and needs my efforts.

He didn't understand how to live like that. Despite having done exactly the same for 50 odd years with a little divine guidance added in.

We are all opportunistic and go where we can do something useful to survive, possibly live well. Its just a question of who takes credit of our success or failure along the way.

At least in my simplistic veiw.

TheGoldcountry · 2nd January 2021, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

In my understanding, where 12-step programmes work at all, they mainly work with people who already have a highly religious worldview. They're not very good at converting nonbelievers.

AA has been working for me maintaining sobriety (currently almost a year and a half.)

However, it is the group dynamic/support system that helps me. The religious aspect of it (which hardcore 12-steppers will deny exists, in my view being too close to see it) is a big turn-off to my atheist self. Both the religions people bring in, and the dogmatic nature of 12-step programs themselves, creates some rabid hardcore adherents to the program whose "all or nothing" approach to the program does push me away at times.

I actually think some people just like the "private club" feel of AA more than actually trying to help others, which is supposed to be the ultimate goal: help yourself maintain sobriety by continuing to help others. I definitely get a bad "ivory tower" vibe from some of the long term members at times.

Carrot Flower King · 3rd January 2021, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Thor 2

As well as that perhaps the faithful seem to crave purpose, where as the secularist is comfortable in the absence of such. I have discussed this with my late brother, who was incredulous at my lack of need to want to know why.

As, apparently, "why?" was the first word I learned, I tend to view the "why?" questions differently: more asking "why do I need a god to explain anything?" or "why do I need an externally mandated purpose?".

I've never had a credible answer from any religionist...And one got most upset when I suggested he go read Sartre's Roads to Freedom trilogy.

JoeMorgue · 3rd January 2021, 05:46 AM

"Why" questions are just "What" questions (intentionally) badly worded.

2nd January 2021, 11:30 PM	#42
TheGoldcountry Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 5,892	Originally Posted by arthwollipot In my understanding, where 12-step programmes work at all, they mainly work with people who already have a highly religious worldview. They're not very good at converting nonbelievers. AA has been working for me maintaining sobriety (currently almost a year and a half.) However, it is the group dynamic/support system that helps me. The religious aspect of it (which hardcore 12-steppers will deny exists, in my view being too close to see it) is a big turn-off to my atheist self. Both the religions people bring in, and the dogmatic nature of 12-step programs themselves, creates some rabid hardcore adherents to the program whose "all or nothing" approach to the program does push me away at times. I actually think some people just like the "private club" feel of AA more than actually trying to help others, which is supposed to be the ultimate goal: help yourself maintain sobriety by continuing to help others. I definitely get a bad "ivory tower" vibe from some of the long term members at times.
	__________________ I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten I sometimes think the Bible was inspired by Satan to make God look bad. And then it backfired on Him when He underestimated the stupidity of religious ideologues. -MontagK505

3rd January 2021, 05:46 AM	#44
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 30,692	"Why" questions are just "What" questions (intentionally) badly worded.
	__________________ Yahtzee: "You're doing that thing again where when asked a question you just discuss the philosophy of the question instead of answering the bloody question." Gabriel: "Well yeah, you see..." Yahtzee: "No. When you are asked a Yes or No question the first word out of your mouth needs to be Yes or No. Only after that have you earned the right to elaborate."

2nd January 2021, 11:07 PM	#41
8enotto Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Mexico Posts: 1,866	Purpose is something many people seem to need to know. I just was asked about this last week actually. Not a ' what drives you on day after day ' purpose but ' why did god ' based question as if we are here to do some work of god. He is almighty and omnipresent, why the hell would he need a worm like me to do his work, much less even exist? Just to keep me busy? His mind too needed that mission from god otherwise life is aimlessly drifting until a funeral. I tried to explain it isn't aimless drifting as I made decisions to end up wherever I am doing whatever I do. I get to choose what is important and needs my efforts. He didn't understand how to live like that. Despite having done exactly the same for 50 odd years with a little divine guidance added in. We are all opportunistic and go where we can do something useful to survive, possibly live well. Its just a question of who takes credit of our success or failure along the way. At least in my simplistic veiw.

3rd January 2021, 05:16 AM	#43
Carrot Flower King Muse Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 753	Originally Posted by Thor 2 As well as that perhaps the faithful seem to crave purpose, where as the secularist is comfortable in the absence of such. I have discussed this with my late brother, who was incredulous at my lack of need to want to know why. As, apparently, "why?" was the first word I learned, I tend to view the "why?" questions differently: more asking "why do I need a god to explain anything?" or "why do I need an externally mandated purpose?". I've never had a credible answer from any religionist...And one got most upset when I suggested he go read Sartre's Roads to Freedom trilogy.