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Old 8th July 2017, 10:02 AM   #201
Skeptical Greg
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
.....

People can disagree and I am perfectly fine with those here that don't agree but made sound arguments why they don't agree. However, if someone is forced to use a strawman logic fallacy or other unsound reasoning to back up their case, then it only shows they can't really back up their case. They either lack the intellectual tools, or are too lazy to think it through.

Ad hom argument.. Fail..

Your OP assumes some logical extrapolations that make the obvious answer incorrect. Then when others extrapolate even further, with results that
don't agree with yours, you call foul..

Sour grapes?
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Old 8th July 2017, 10:14 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Sour grapes?
How many sour grapes constitute a bunch? That's our next "math" problem.

I say 14 or 15.
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Old 8th July 2017, 10:42 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
Once you go beyond the simple maths that makes the answer 14, the only real answer is : There is not enough information to answer this question in a non-ambiguous way.

It's just an excuse to exercise pedantry, which I recognise as a self-confessed pedant.

Surprised nobody has come up with innovative solutions that involve crossing the international date line.

Hilited: Heading to China (where it's either yesterday or tomorrow depending on which direction and which starting point you use ) where they adopted his sister, who is stubbornly loyal to Chinese culture and thus counts her birthday from d.o.b. = 1.

Yet another "ultimate" problem by the wayside. Sad.
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Old 8th July 2017, 10:45 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Hilited: Heading to China (where it's either yesterday or tomorrow depending on which direction and which starting point you use ) where they adopted his sister, who is stubbornly loyal to Chinese culture and thus counts her birthday from d.o.b. = 1.
I like it!
Chinese POV certainly does add an interesting wrinkle!
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Old 8th July 2017, 10:45 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
It is not only fallacious reasoning, the fact WP has repeatedly used this fallacious arguing style on this thread is evidence (to me at least) why he lacks the critical thinking skills and logic ability to solve the OP in the first place, or even understand the explanation which came later.
Derp derp burp burp. I got no critical thinkings. LOL fart fart. You got all the critical thinkings and no fallacious oneses. Hooop hooop you must be king. I got no logic too. Poop poop pooo.
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Old 8th July 2017, 10:46 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Hilited: Heading to China (where it's either yesterday or tomorrow depending on which direction and which starting point you use ) where they adopted his sister, who is stubbornly loyal to Chinese culture and thus counts her birthday from d.o.b. = 1.

Yet another "ultimate" problem by the wayside. Sad.
You're late.
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Old 8th July 2017, 10:49 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Nope, you're wrong.

You see, not everyone considers babies 0 years old upon birth. Sometimes a baby right after birth is considered one year old. Thus, a four year old may have been born just three years ago. And someone exactly half their age would thus be born a year and a half ago. There will then be a period of time (6 months) when the older person is 13 while the younger person is 12.

Since you never specified which standard for reckoning ages your problem used, we must consider both possibilities, and 13 becomes a possibility again.
Sound argument. Sorry I missed it earlier today.
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Old 8th July 2017, 02:25 PM   #208
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This remains among the worst attempts at logical thinking that I have ever witnessed.


Unstated assumptions come and go as pleases RBF. Precision comes in and out of focus as works for him. And none of it is in any way necessary, let alone correct, let alone anything other than exceptionally, gargantuanly, heart-stoppingly stupid.
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Old 8th July 2017, 03:13 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
How many sour grapes constitute a bunch? That's our next "math" problem.

I say 14 or 15.
Back when my sister was only half my age, it would have been one or two.

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Old 8th July 2017, 03:35 PM   #210
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Has the OP revealed his "correct" answer (along with reasoning)?
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Old 8th July 2017, 03:50 PM   #211
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Let's change the problem: For six pages so far, RBF engages in pedantic asshattery. How many more pages will it be before all other posters tire of participating in this complete waste of time?

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Old 8th July 2017, 03:54 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
matters little
Still only gives you 14 and 15 rather than 13 14 and 15.
SEE ABOVE. Same principle different numbers. net result is applied to the op would still give 14 and 15 as possibilities and not 13.
Reasonable. The question didn't say that, but if it did, your argument would be irrefutable.

The way the question is worded, without invoking some ridiculous scenario, the sister is always at minimum 2 years younger or more. This means rather than like what Mike answered:
it goes the other way and is 14-15 not 13-14.

If the question said she was nominally 2 it would allow a 13 result. It said half. You can never 1/2 a number equal to or greater than 4 and get a number less than 2. So without the stupid pedantic results I promised NOT to bring to the puzzle, the answer can never include 13.

That's why I agree if we just want you say years only, 14 is an acceptable answer. But if we try to break it down to include more results like 15, then we can include 15 but not 13 without being willfully stupid about it. (like invoking leap years or time dilation/zones etc.)
The problem states that the sister is half the brother's age. In common parlance, two is half of four. I don't see why we cannot include 13. It does not state that at all times when the brother was four the sister was half the age. It states that at some arbitrary moment when the brother was nominally 4, his sister was half the age, and if we assume nominal ages, she could have turned two after he turned four, thus allowing that at some other point when he was four she was either one or two. If you allow that the brother and sister have differing birthdays you must allow for the possibility that, though for some part of the brother's year 4, she was 2, she either became two after his fourth birthday, meaning that for some time when he was 4 she was 1, or that she became 2 before his fourth birthday, meaning that for some time before his 5th birthday, she turned 3. If you want a more precise answer the rules for reporting age must be specified at the start. The only unit of measurement mentioned in the problem is the age in years, and that means simply that at some arbitrary point during the year in which the brother could be said to be four years old, the sister was half as many years old, which is two. Other assumptions are gratuitous and (obviously) endlessly arguable.
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Old 8th July 2017, 04:27 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
COME ON. Dont lose focus. It is a silly argument. He is being willfully ignorant. You can easily spot when someone does this. It's trivially easy. The form of the fallacious argument goes something like this:

"Wait, are you saying that (insert something clearly NOT said)"? Then argue how silly that thing was that wasn't said would be if it indeed was said.

It is not only fallacious reasoning, the fact WP has repeatedly used this fallacious arguing style on this thread is evidence (to me at least) why he lacks the critical thinking skills and logic ability to solve the OP in the first place, or even understand the explanation which came later.

People can disagree and I am perfectly fine with those here that don't agree but made sound arguments why they don't agree. However, if someone is forced to use a strawman logic fallacy or other unsound reasoning to back up their case, then it only shows they can't really back up their case. They either lack the intellectual tools, or are too lazy to think it through.
1 + 2 = 3

no it doesn't, when I said one, I meant one and a bit .......so there!
tHe aNswEr is less thaN 5.

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Old 8th July 2017, 04:47 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Has the OP revealed his "correct" answer (along with reasoning)?
Oh yeah..
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6&postcount=77

The reasoning is never really there..
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Old 8th July 2017, 06:22 PM   #215
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Shouldn't this thread be moved to Puzzles, where we might find denizens who appreciate the fine art of turd-in-punchbowl solutions?

Seems that bothering these nice science and math geeks just gets their hackles up.
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Old 8th July 2017, 06:27 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
Has the OP revealed his "correct" answer (along with reasoning)?
The correct answer is actually a suffusion of yellow.

Norm
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:55 AM   #217
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Mary is 24 yrs old. Mary is twice as old as Ana was when Mary was as old as Ana is now. How old is Ana?
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:57 AM   #218
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A suffusion of yellow.
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Old 17th July 2017, 01:58 PM   #219
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The answer, unsurprisingly, falls into the category of "not wrong but".

If you make up enough of your own interpretations, assumptions, and definitions, you can come to any answer you want. And, again, it's not wrong, logically speaking. It's just utterly inane and draining for anyone making an honest effort to effectively communicate with you.

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Old 17th July 2017, 02:00 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Bladesman87 View Post
You're late.

Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
I think this XKCD cartoon applies.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:37 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Mary is 24 yrs old. Mary is twice as old as Ana was when Mary was as old as Ana is now. How old is Ana?
I kind of figured no one would get this one, not even kid eager.
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Old 18th July 2017, 05:52 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Mary is 24 yrs old. Mary is twice as old as Ana was when Mary was as old as Ana is now. How old is Ana?
No funny games this time?

Variables:
m: current age of Mary
a: current age of Ana
d: years difference between "then" and "now"

Reformulation of the problem:
(1) m = 24
(2) m = 2 * (a - d)
(3) m - d = a

Then equation (2) becomes:
m = 2 * (a - d) = 2 * (m - 2 * d)
And thus
m = 4 * d
d = 6
That makes with (3): a = 24 - 6 = 18
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:29 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
No funny games this time?

Variables:
m: current age of Mary
a: current age of Ana
d: years difference between "then" and "now"

Reformulation of the problem:
(1) m = 24
(2) m = 2 * (a - d)
(3) m - d = a

Then equation (2) becomes:
m = 2 * (a - d) = 2 * (m - 2 * d)
And thus
m = 4 * d
d = 6
That makes with (3): a = 24 - 6 = 18
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Old 18th July 2017, 09:53 AM   #224
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I've got one:

What weighs more, a box of feathers or a box of lead?

Hint:
The box of lead is bigger than the box of feathers.
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Old 18th July 2017, 09:59 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've got one:

What weighs more, a box of feathers or a box of lead?

Hint:
The box of lead is bigger than the box of feathers.
The box of feathers, because yo momma is sitting on it. :boxed:

Sorry, that just seemed to fit with the level of discourse maintained by the OP.
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Old 18th July 2017, 11:37 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've got one:

What weighs more, a box of feathers or a box of lead?

Hint:
The box of lead is bigger than the box of feathers.
The spoiler doesn't help.

The box of lead might be bigger but it doesn't say anything about the material the box is made of or how thick the box's walls are. The box of feathers might be in a box made of thick lead and the box of lead might contain some lead grains inside a cardboard box slightly bigger than the lead box the feathers are in.


A question I've come across a few times is the following very easy question:

A man goes into a shop and buys a baseball and a baseball bat. The total price comes to $10 and the bat costs $9 more than the ball. How much did the bat cost?

I'm not surprised that lots of people give the same wrong answer (people tend to blurt out $9) because people tend to give out the first answer that comes into their head. What does surprise me is the amount of people who, after hearing the correct answer, can't understand why their answer is wrong and why the correct answer is correct.
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Old 18th July 2017, 12:09 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
I'm not surprised that lots of people give the same wrong answer (people tend to blurt out $9) because people tend to give out the first answer that comes into their head. What does surprise me is the amount of people who, after hearing the correct answer, can't understand why their answer is wrong and why the correct answer is correct.
Not to mention how angry some people get.
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Old 18th July 2017, 12:32 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Not to mention how angry some people get.

Because they can't figure out that the bat was nine dollars, the ball was a free promotion with any purchase of a bat, and the sales tax was a dollar?
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Old 18th July 2017, 02:13 PM   #229
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That riddle is usually asked in the form of what the ball cost, rather than the bat, and though I do get the answer, I must say some of the explanations for it are so badly written that they leave you scratching your head, and perhaps some of the anger over the solution comes from the fact that the thing is explained so clumsily.
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Old 18th July 2017, 07:06 PM   #230
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Old 18th July 2017, 07:27 PM   #231
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Well, I didn't expect anyone to get the answer to my question, not even Red Baron Farms.

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Old 20th July 2017, 03:12 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
COME ON. Dont lose focus. It is a silly argument. He is being willfully ignorant. You can easily spot when someone does this. It's trivially easy. The form of the fallacious argument goes something like this:

"Wait, are you saying that (insert something clearly NOT said)"? Then argue how silly that thing was that wasn't said would be if it indeed was said.

It is not only fallacious reasoning, the fact WP has repeatedly used this fallacious arguing style on this thread is evidence (to me at least) why he lacks the critical thinking skills and logic ability to solve the OP in the first place, or even understand the explanation which came later.

People can disagree and I am perfectly fine with those here that don't agree but made sound arguments why they don't agree. However, if someone is forced to use a strawman logic fallacy or other unsound reasoning to back up their case, then it only shows they can't really back up their case. They either lack the intellectual tools, or are too lazy to think it through.

Translation: "It's okay for me to make up stuff but it's wrong when you do it because reasons."
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Old 20th July 2017, 05:32 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Translation: "It's okay for me to make up stuff but it's wrong when you do it because reasons."
That is also a strawman..just a different way to put words in someones mouth they didn't say. In this case you used the format quote something you can't argue against, then use the "translate" function to manipulate what was said into a form you can argue against. Parcher used a slightly different technique to build a strawman.

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Wait, are you saying that for the entire time that you were 4, which is 364 days, your sister was half your age? It sure does seem like you are saying that.
As you can see it also involves purposely ignoring what was said and substituting a willfully ignorant strawman instead.

Both techniques are rude, and weak. The last gasp from a weak mind that can't argue their cause directly as a few others here have done.

So the question is this, why make nasty rude strawman arguments in the first place? Are you that needing of attention that you feel you must go stomping around in the mud? Because I have already conceded that because they count ages differently in China 13,14, & 15 are all possible and I missed that point originally.
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Old 20th July 2017, 06:54 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
So the question is this, why make nasty rude strawman arguments in the first place? Are you that needing of attention that you feel you must go stomping around in the mud? Because I have already conceded that because they count ages differently in China 13,14, & 15 are all possible and I missed that point originally.

Have you conceded that they might count ages differently a thousand years from now or that one sibling might have traveled to Alpha Centauri and back at .8c? Have you conceded that the one person might be counting in Martian years and the other in earth years?

There are infinite unstated premises which you have rejected for reasons known best to yourself. The most logical thing to do - accept the question as a purely and precisely worded mathematics puzzle - is the only thing you won't do.

And that is what makes this entire enterprise very, very stupid.
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Old 20th July 2017, 07:04 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Have you conceded that they might count ages differently a thousand years from now or that one sibling might have traveled to Alpha Centauri and back at .8c? Have you conceded that the one person might be counting in Martian years and the other in earth years?

There are infinite unstated premises which you have rejected for reasons known best to yourself. The most logical thing to do - accept the question as a purely and precisely worded mathematics puzzle - is the only thing you won't do.

And that is what makes this entire enterprise very, very stupid.
What? actually make an argument? I thought you were incapable. I apologize. So apparently you can think if you try hard enough. Not hard enough to realize that people asked (and I promised) that no silly pedantic solutions like that be used.
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Old 20th July 2017, 07:41 PM   #236
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16+9=1, 8+6=2, 16+13=5, 7+7=x. What is x?
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Old 20th July 2017, 07:45 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
What? actually make an argument? I thought you were incapable. I apologize. So apparently you can think if you try hard enough. Not hard enough to realize that people asked (and I promised) that no silly pedantic solutions like that be used.
(And then you broke your promise.)

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Old 20th July 2017, 07:54 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
16+9=1, 8+6=2, 16+13=5, 7+7=x. What is x?

Something stupid?
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Old 20th July 2017, 07:54 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
16+9=1, 8+6=2, 16+13=5, 7+7=x. What is x?
Is the trick just to find out the correct modulo? Do you need to figure out the right base being used as well? Give the full parameters of the problem, or it's just a stupid exercise in trying to demonstrate that the asker is clever.
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Old 20th July 2017, 08:02 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Is the trick just to find out the correct modulo? Do you need to figure out the right base being used as well? Give the full parameters of the problem, or it's just a stupid exercise in trying to demonstrate that the asker is clever.
You're just saying that because you're too stupid to get the answer.

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